than speculation. Apparently Birkett is still unaware that Dorsey's semester is NOT OVER YET.
Dave Birkett "Dorsey is qualified w/grades. Florida State possible."
His semester is over...Boyd Anderson seniors have already walked.
Dorsey did in fact walk, right? And he taped M NFZ on the top of his cap, right?
These are the questions we need to ask, people...
Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.
Oh boy. God really does hate Michigan.
...it could be a test of faith.
if he qualifies and goes to Florida State that would be a serious kick in the nuts... We can probably thank Mark Snyder for this one
Sam Webb did not say that Dorsey would not play for U of M, as the article claims he did. He said that he is not optimistic that Dorsey will make it. He guessed that FSU would be another possibility for Dorsey...This article takes Sam's hypothesizing and treats it as fact.
From those interested in hearing exactly what Sam Webb said this morning about Dorsey, here are links to the relevant podcasts:
http://www.wtka.com/index.php?fuseaction=home.podcasts_sel&id=5596 (Dorsey talk starts around 3:10)
http://www.wtka.com/index.php?fuseaction=home.podcasts_sel&id=5597 (continuation of Dorsey talk)
You're telling me that Birkett took someone's words and twisted them around to create the illusion of factual knowledge on a subject? Impossible. What reason do we have to doubt him?
I don't know why this is bad news. If he's qualified to attend FSU, doesn't that make it more likely that he can come to UM? If they said JUCO was the only other option, then we're probably out. But he signed an LOI to us, and if he passes the NCAA Clearinghouse, the ball is in our court. This doesn't sound like bad news to me.
My interpretation is that he's eligible to play for us but we aren't taking him. I must be reading this wrong...
Sam Webb has said a couple of times now that it might be possible for Dorsey not to be admitted to Michigan for non-academic reasons, which confuses me if those reasons are the sames things that we all heard about when he first signed...Good point about the LOI. Michigan would have to release him before he could go to FSU, correct?
I think the LOI becomes binding when the athlete is admitted to the school. So, as of now, Dorsey can go anywhere he wants and won't have to sit.
The reason it could be bad news is that if he attends an FBS school, that means he's qualified by the Clearinghouse . . . but that Michigan's admissions department denied him entry to U of M. That means that Michigan might have wasted time - and a scholarship reservation - for a kid that wouldn't ever play for Michigan.
I said this in a thread last week, but if we're going to recruit kids, then we should admit them. The decision to allow him into the school should come BEFORE the letter of intent, not after. Otherwise, Rodriguez is wasting his time and/or admissions is making Rodriguez play with one hand tied behind his back.
After Witty and now this, you make some good points. It seems like a ton of wasted effort and other things if even when they do qualify, UM says no.
The difference between Witty and Dorsey though is that Witty was recruited basically to get Denard to Michigan, which has turned out pretty well for us so far. So I wouldn't say recruiting him was a wasted effort
The coaches really liked Witty, actually. He just couldn't get it done to get admitted. It's kind of insulting to say he was only recruited because of Denard, because Witty's actually a good football player.
Now you might be able to say that about J.D. Pride, a good friend of Seantrel Henderson's . . .
you're right, I worded it incorrectly. If i remember correctly they were considered to be a package deal though, and as much as they liked Witty (and I liked him too), we still benefited even though he didn't make it in. apologies
He actually DID get it done but his test scores were flagged by UM admissions due to the jump in qualifying score and it was deemed he was "too much of a risk" to admit. This was the first hard example of a certain "tightening" of academic standards that didn't exist in the Lloyd Carr era (Slocum anybody?).
So, somewhat similar to what has happened to Dorsey - UM coaches/AD convince admissions to allow them to offer a scholarship to a kid and allow the kid to sign a LOI, admissions set the criteria that need to be met (along with the Clearinghouse, obviously), kid meets the criteria and is qualified (according to Birkett), Michigan Admissions doesn't even wait for the process to finish before saying "you did what we asked you to do, but we changed our minds and no thanks".
What makes this one more troubling is all the nightmare PR Michigan and RRod had to go through and admissions still flips the script on a kid, despite fully knowing his background history when they agreed to allow him to sign a LOI and having the kid meet his obligations. If he is qualified and goes to FSU, why would a Florida kid ever want to attempt to get into Michigan again?
he would want a superior education? Does that even enter into this equation?
This has got to look bad to the future recruits. Add to it the fact that it has happened not once, but twice, and I think future recruits will see this as a BIG negative when being recruited by UM.
I am going to speak in generalities for a moment. Most (and I stress most) student athletes are not great academics. Most of the top tier athletes see their sports as their future and put most of their time and energy into that opposed to their studies. For this reason (and some others I'm sure) many of them scrape by through HS and only go to University so they can get into the professional ranks.
So you look at these top tier athletes, the ones everyone wants, and most (MOST) are of the variety that are scraping by in HS. They are sure to be qualified when it comes to the end of the year, but it will be close for many.
Why on earth would these guys even look twice at UM given the very recent history? I was one of these athletes in HS (though Hockey, not football). In Canada grades are essentially irrelevant because we play in the CHL and not university. However, my point is I was putting my money on becoming a pro athlete and therefore, let my studies go.
If I were in any of their positions (these top rated athletes with borderline grades) I wouldn't give UM the time of day regardless if they were my favorite school growing up or not. If these kids are qualified I can't see how UM admissions denying them admission is a good thing. I just can't fathom what they are thinking.
Again, I think this is going to cause many of these top rated recruits to look elsewhere in the future. I know I would in their circumstance.
It seems downright bizarre to me to look at a kid's background, say he's okay to come if his grades are good enough, and then later say that his background makes him something less than Michigan material...I'm not saying, I should be clear, that this is what is happening, but that it seems like a possibility at all is strange.
....but it seems like you're implying that Rich Rod and the football program have something do with whether or not a player is admitted to the university. That is untrue. The admissions dept. has the final say on whether or not someone can be admitted to the university, and it is completely separate from anything having to do with the football program. There is a fairly interesting take on it here:
I've seen that article too. However, don't the coaches and admissions office communicate ahead of time as to who will be able to make it in?
I believe this is true...especially in cases where character issues or background history are involved (not saying I think Dorsey has character issues at all, FYI).
Admissions is 100 percent subjective once the minimum qualifications are met.
How could an admittance decision come without the kid's final transcripts? Or do you mean you would like to see the signing period moved to the summer?
These reports were surfacing prior to Dorsey's graduation, so they obviously weren't entirely based on his final transcripts. Whatever's allegedly preventing him from getting into U of M must have something to do with test scores, personal conduct, or something else.
...but I was admitted to UofM prior to my final transcript being available. Shoot, I don't think any of my senior year grades were available when I received my acceptance letter. It happened a decade ago, but if memory serves me correctly, I received my acceptance in November of my senior year.
But you weren't in a race to meet NCAA minimum requirements, I assume. Dorsey needs to get a bare minimum GPA, one that we all know he was apparently in danger of not attaining, pending his final semester grades.
But I was responding to an assertion that final transcripts are required for admissions decisions.
I stand corrected. Completely forgot about the giant caveat in every acceptance letter.
I do remember that being in the acceptance letter, but I am sure it would take an absolute implosion to ever be excersized. I have never heard of anyone having their status revoked because of tehir final semester grades. I think wait lists are designed more for students who get accepted and then choose a different University (that never happens to UofM, of course).
Depends on what you mean by absolute implosion. Lots of stuff can happen between November/December and June. Some kids get tremendous bouts of senioritis and their last semester grades drop like rocks. There are other situations as well, but it is extremely, extremely rare.
Most colleges admit colleges without their final transcripts...I was admitted to UofM in Dec of 2003, but I wasn't graduating HS until the next spring.
edit: sorry above poster said same thing, and I get your point chitown
Are you by chance a college?
Clearly any situation that doesn't have him playing for M this fall is bad news, but I meant that this isn't bad news in comparison to the previous thought that he wouldn't be eligible by the NCAA. I would much rather for M to have the choice than not.
I think a lot of kids don't have their grades wrapped up by LOI time, so that's probably not a good protocol you're suggesting.
It's a good protocol if your admissions standards for athletes significantly exceed the standards for the NCAA as a whole.
But by that standard, we wouldn't have Justin Turner, Jeremy Gallon and who knows who else on our team because they weren't qualified yet in Feb. And you'd still spend the year leading up to February recruiting players only to not send them an LOI come February. It would be tough to maintain.
If this is true...
It means that Michigan's admissions is making their decision without his final semester grades, as his school is still in session. If that's the case, everything they know about him now, they knew about him back on signing day - in other words, they SHOULD have known on signing day that they wouldn't take him because, apparently, there isn't anything he can do this semester to change their minds, or they'd be waiting for his grades. If that's the case, they should have just said that.
Maybe I missed it, but was it posted somewhere that grades are absolutely what is holding him back? Couldn't his test scores be the issue?
I have no idea if U-M's admissions standards work like the NCAA Clearinghouse standards (except for being higher somehow), but the NCAA uses a "sliding scale" whereby you need a certain combination of GPA and scores. For (a pulled-out-of-my-ass) example, maybe a 2.0 and 14 ACT aren't good enough, but a 2.0 + 18 ACT or 3.0 + 14 ACT are.
Boyd Anderson commencement was yesterday. It would be nice to know if DD made his way across the stage. A smiling picture posted up or something. Where is Raback when you need him?
1) this isn't grades related (that will be verified soon, but Birkett's statement backs up premium sites' statements) but is instead "something else".
2) there are only two programs in the country that hold their athletes to a higher standard than the NCAA clearinghouse standards and Michigan is not one of them: Stanford and I believe NW.
So it looks like a major decision needs to be made - do we want to win games and be a football powerhouse again which requires at least some risk, or do we want to publically take a holier than thou approach while privately keeping the same admissions standards that all but 2 D1 programs do and as a result field decent but not great teams?
I love it when Scout guys show up and play "Insider". Birkett is merely parroting Sam Webb, this isn't corroboration, it's repetition.
I've loved watching you hate on Scout for a bit now. Say what you want, but there hasn't been a single site that has been more accurate than GBW on many occasions and a single person who has been more accurate than Sam Webb. If you don't think so, just name where I'm wrong. Sorry you can't afford the $9.99 a month
"hate, hate, hate, hate, hate"
You're right, poor was a little bit of anger on my part. My apologies.
As for your comment about me being a "Scout guy", why should it be used in a negative context? I merely said Birkett echoed what had been said on premium sites, which, if you believe Dorsey's coach in the ESPN article that was just posted, was correct (and I can't stand Birkett, so by no means do I think he didn't lift that info from Sam).
1) I agree that it's most likely not related to grades.
2) Michigan might not be one of them. I guess we might find out for sure depending on what happens with Dorsey . . .
If we are going to go through the process of cleaning up the atletic department, seems like we could add the admission process to the list as well.
I would hope that there is a process in place for the admissions office to weigh in on potential recruits before RR pulls the trigger with an offer. To ensure all parties are informed. RR an company can extend the scholarship knowing that the recruit has some work to do for admission and the athlete can choose to accept the scholarship and put the work in or make the choice to go elsewhere.
I do not want to believe that UM is extending scholarships and the athletes are assuming that as long as they clear the Clearinghouse they are in. I do not like the trend(Witherspoon, Witty and possibly Dorsey)
Problem is, a majority of our offers are out before a player finishes their junior year, meaning they have 3 semesters worth of grades left and maybe they have an ACT/SAT score and maybe they don't. We would be way behind in offering a lot of players and we would lose out on a lot more guys than we do with the current system.
I just wrote a blog post about this, but pretty soon, written offers won't be allowed until August 1 of a kid's senior year. So that might mitigate some of these problems.
Aren't written offers no more binding than verbal offers, they just give the family a document to show everyone that Coach X is a dick if he doesn't honor the offer? Not certain about this, but I definitely read it on some parent's recruiting blog.
Since Michigan really doesn't evaluate 9th grade, offering a Junior before their school year starst generally means they've only completed 1 year of school, with 2 years left to go. Concieveably, this should give them incentives to pick up their schoolwork in order to make it over the NCAA and school requirements. I mean, even if a kid is barely passing (1.0 GPA), there's still a very good chance they can improve over 4 semesters to reach the required 2.5 GPA.
would be to establish some sort of framework or guidelines between admissions and the coaches as to what kind of mix of grades and scores are minimums, so the coaches can gauge more reliably when assessing a recruit whether or not they have a good chance of meeting the criteria by the time theyn graduate.
I agree...Admissions will look really stupid if this happens.
Does anyone know how the application process works for these guys? Do they only turn in the app after they sign the letter? I'm guessing that's gotta be true for at least some recruits, since so many change their minds at the last minute.
I agree the system needs to be improved, but I don't think admissions should have to accept every recruit, just because he wants to come to Michigan.
This isn't a debate about UM accepting every recruit that wants to go to UM. This debate is about a recruit meeting all the criteria they are supposed to meet in order to attend University and still not being allowed in. There is a significant difference in those debates no?
It's the work of the REGIME!! Clear out the REGIME!!!! Fire 'em all, Brandon!
Absolutely agree. For some reason, that thread got pulled. I wish there was a method for mods to post their logic for why a thread gets pulled. That way people who participated or were interested in the tread would know what happened or why the thread got killed and not make the same faux pas the in the future.
if the reason why we have not offered Kent Turene has something to do with this. Maybe U of M is not offering until they know that they can get him admitted.
If we screw over his buddy Dorsey, it might be a moot point, anyway. I doubt Turene is going to want to come to Michigan if he finds out that Michigan slammed the door in Dorsey's face.
I said this in a thread last week, but if we're going to recruit kids, then we should admit them.
The problem with this idea is that we normally start recruiting the kids long before we'll have any idea if they'll be qualified. Should we automatically admit a borderline kid when he's a junior, only to see him end up ineligible? This is something that happens to lots of schools; it's life.
When I said "recruit," I meant "accept a LOI from." I guess that was a little bit unclear. If you offer a kid in September and he accepts, Rodriguez and Admissions still have from September until the beginning of February to determine whether he can be admitted or not. If January comes around and he's not in good academic shape, then you can call him up and say, "Sorry, kid, but it doesn't look like it's going to work out."
Like they said before that Sam Web quote was not correct he did not say he wasn't going to be here .. So when i look at this article and he did qualify that is great news to Michigan .. I believe michigan has waited as long to clear him as they did probably to see if his grades would go up at all .. They probably asked him to try hard his last semister to see what level he could be at if he was pushed .. IMO he will be blue at the end of the day
Sorry, but that article is doing nothing but misconstruing a quote of a quote from Sam Web. I don't get how Sam Webb saying that things aren't looking good for him turns into:
"Sam Webb -- by way of MVictors -- reports that Dorsey will not be on campus this fall"
Sam never said that.
The fact that Birkett says that grades are in order probably means that it's a test score holding him back and that it was low enough the first time(s) around that there is not much of a chance to bring it up enough to get in.
If he toook the ACT maybe he just went in and just took it didn't try that hard and wanted to see how he did to get by. I mean if he went in as a JR. took the test got a 17 and was fine with it because he would get into almost all school with his ability and that score then he probably didn't care to much . i think anyone that tries hard a puts in the time to study could pull off a 23 and i'm sure michigan would let him in with a 23 .
He has probably taken the SAT and should retake that as well as give the ACT a shot. Some do better on one than the other.
People in not trying to say 23 is good . or bad . but what i'm trying to say is someone with his skills and a 23 would be able to get into Michigan .. and ya we would never get into michigan with a 23 heck i know people that didn't with a 28 lol but the point is i have good faith that he would get in with that score ..
well .. i just hope he gets in .. my fingers are all crossed would be fun to watch him flying around the field beastingon people with a winged helmet on .
I got in, out of state, with a 25, and I am a caucasian male. I graduated with honors. What's your point? Test scores are one piece of the puzzle.
I also got in. In state, with a 23. Graduated with Honors. Test scores aren't the end all be all to success at UM.
...and you may come from a difficult background, that made academic success something less than a foregone conclusion. But, I know that getting a 23 on the ACT is very very difficult for some students. I have seen good students, 3.0-3.5 GPA students, not do better than 21 on the ACT. I think you're being unrealistic to think "anyone that tries hard" could score a 23. If he scored a 17, and test score was the hold up, a 19 or 20 would likely get him in, and that may be possible.
From what I saw on another thread awhile ago, Dorsey had a 18 on the ACT. Which should have been a good enough score to get him in.
As long as he has a 2.5 in his core GPA. he can stil graduate from high school and not achieve a 2.5 core GPA, as those only count academic classes (Math, Science, English, Social Studies, Foreign Language)
It's like at the end of of the 2007 season, we slipped into an alternative universe. I am also beginning to have a lot more sympathy for ND's hell the past 17 years.
A very quick google shows that his high school's last day is friday...which would suggest that his final semester grades are not in...which would suggest that anybody speculating as to whether he qualified is probably full of shit.
The commencement was yesterday. So like MGoShoe suggests, the seniors grades are probably already booked.
Why the hell did we all decide to reside in the football camp of one of the greatest academic universities in the world dammit?
It will be heartbreaking if he doesn't come.
edit - this will be heartbreaking until RR has a better handle on who he can and cannot get in. Did this happen with Lloyd much?
And didn't get in. Of course I was 5'8" and couldn't catch herpes at titty bar.
" Of course I was 5'8" and couldn't catch herpes at titty bar."
You weren't trying hard enough. Just keep putting in the time and effort and I'm sure you can make that dream come true.
Just lick the pole. Then, run like hell. They don't like it when you do that.
I still hold out hope he is coming here but my confidence hangs by a thread.
IF this is true, which I have some skepticism on, I sort of agree with Magnus.
For instance - Stanford's admissions rejected a number of Harbaugh's commits prior to signing day. IF Michigan admissions has rejected him, that would imply that they don't care what his academic performance in this final semester is, as their decision is being made without it. If that's the case, why couldn't they just say "Look dude - we're not letting this guy in" BEFORE a LOI was signed?
Maybe I misunderstood what Magnus was saying before, but if the situation is "no matter what this kid does from now until fall, he won't be accepted to UM" then that should be said prior to an LOI. I agree with this.
What I took Magnus' point to be was that if a kid wasn't solidly cleared by Feb - even if he could make up for it between then and Sept like Gallon and Turner did - then he shouldn't get an LOI, and I disagree with this.
I agree with your point re: Gallon/Turner.
I think that UM admissions SHOULD, in that case, be able to say "If you achieve X, Y, Z this semester, you will be admitted". Maybe they did that hear, and he failed? I dunno.
Can you speak up? I can't here you.
Maybe I was unclear in my original post, but that's what I meant.
If a kid's final transcript is required for admission, then that's fine. Everyone has to get enough English credits, math credits, history credits, etc.
But if admissions is saying, "Regardless of how you do in your final semester, we're not going to let you in," then it's a waste of time to recruit those kids. And since these reports have been popping up prior to the end of Boyd Anderson's school year, that seems to signal that it's something BESIDES grades that is causing the holdup.
we're seeing another disconnect between Coach Rod and a part of the school (and I don't mean to blame either side). The gobluewolverineblogwhatever link above suggests as much, though it's hard to know when those guys are just flat-out full of it.
Edit: Here is the link
By the time the LOI is signed, the kid should be vetted and prepped to be rubber stamped once he qualifies. Since Demar was such a late breaking recruit, maybe this is indeed the case; not sure how rushed Witty's recruitment was.
I sure as hell hope that Michigan is not so bureaucratic that a colossal waste of time like this is allowed to occur on a regular basis. We've been recruiting guys since before it was "legal", surely we've been down this road before. However, given the state of affairs in communications within the AD, I wouldn't be surprised if the admissions hand didn't know what the recruiting hand was up to. Just one more thing for Brandon to iron out.
EDIT *annual* top level results without top level talent. I know Michigan has a high standard placed on academics, and with a good situation, like RR is trying to create with study session, maybe Dorsey will do well. However, what's the big deal having like 10 sub-par (academically) students helping your football program get into the spotlight when you have ~38,000 others helping keep it's reputation as an elite institution for higher learning?
Seems like it's a small price to pay for bringing in extra prize cash for the school (especially if this playoff system gets put into place).
Well, if you bring in tons of marginal recruits that can't hack it academically, then all that will happen is that they become inelligible to play football and transfer/drop out. Nobody benefits from that.
this whole fiasco only supports the concept that we maintain a certain level of integrity in Ann Arbor, and after all the hoopla on Rich's back, that can only be a good thing. I'm all for staying in the lines, even if it costs us a quality player.
If this is true...
I don't have an issue with Michigan rejecting him. You don't need to convince me that a sub-20 ACT kid with a 2.0 GPA doesn't neccesarily deserve to be at Michigan. My main issue is that, if this true, Michigan had all the data they'd use to admit or deny him BEFORE his LOI was signed. Why couldn't they just reject him then?
assuming that he's mathematically out of achieving > 2.0 GPA or > 20 ACT, as of February 1 (even though the GPA is from the prior marking period, which is prior to Feb), when he still has 5 months of school left and another 1 or 2 chances at improving his ACT score (or getting back the results).
Now, if you are advocating that Michigan only recruit kids who as of Feb 1, that are not borderline at all, then your reject him then statement is correct (I completely disagree with this statement, but that's not the point here).
I don't think they should judge it THEN.
What I'm saying is that if Dorsey HAS been denied admissions, they would have known that in February, as his grades for his final semester are not yet in the books, and no new information has popped up since signing his LOI. IF there was NOTHING he could do in order to be admitted, they should have said that then.
However, if it's a case like Turner or Gallon last year, the school should be able to say "if you accomplish X, Y, Z, you will be admitted."
I think we are on the same page then. I don't believe that any new information has poped up since signing his LOI, but we will find out when his school year ends.
Also, I don't think many kids (I'm speaking generically here, not about DD) are mathematically unable to gain admission to UM, while being cleared by the clearinghouse. This is because at that time (Feb) kids 1) still have an opportunity to
1) improve ACT scores (and may not have even received a score from ~6 weeks prior)
2) have ~5 months to improve their grades; and
3) can enroll in summer school to replace grades or do extra credit activities.
Not to be creepy, but as of February 3 (national LOI day, I think), DD would only have 1 report card for the 2009-2010 school year.
Also, it appears that the final report card is issued on 6/25 and the last day of school is 6/9, so likely no new information has come forth recently, but will soon.
I'll let chitown speak for himself, but my opinion is a kid should know that he will be admitted if he meets Michigan's admittance standards, whatever they might be, before he signs and LOI.
Also, the coaches should know what the standards are so they can gauge a kid's ability to meet them before they devote limited resources (recruiting hours, contact time, etc) to recruiting him over another kid.
What sucks is how much criticism and negativity has been and is being heaped on the football program and immediate football staff for adjacent and/or lateral departments. If that kid in your math class is suddenly pulled from enrollment because he forged his transcripts, obviously no one's going to blame your instructor for the error.
Now, if that kid in your position group is suddenly pulled from practice because he is not academically qualified, Rich's face is posted all over the Interwebs. And who's to blame? Some secretary or clerical worker who the program has no control over. AAAAAAAARGHHHHH... personally, that's the stuff that drives me crazy, when the actions of other departments are used to criticize myself and my own group. I have no problem being held accountable for the actions of my own staff, because they answer to me and ideally I should have some control over it in the first place. But you can't expect Rich to be able to control any of this stuff, and imagine the on-field product if he was.
I'm cool with having a higher admittance standard than the NCAA minimum, but can't we have that sorted out before hand? If a kid signs an LOI and he qualifies, he should be rubber stamped. Anything else is another indication that Michigan as a whole doesn't have it's shit together when it comes to having an elite football program.
Carr had guys playing who weren't academically elligible, the CARA/Job Description Fiasco, Witty, and now Dorsey (allegedly). I expect better out of Michigan.
I agree. If it is a situation where Dorsey has the grades for Clearinghouse and for FSU, but, doesn't have the grades to pass the standards at UM; then I wish him luck at FSU and we all move on without complaining.
I don't want our academic standards changed one bit... it's a point of pride for "football" schools like N'w, Stanford, ND, and UM to win without degrading the over-all academic reputation of the University
However, that doesn't negate the possiblity (and problems related) that RR's staff is recruiting kids that are on the edge of eligibility (Witty, Kinard, D. Dorsey) that waste resourses, schollarship availability (even if "only" for a short period of time) which leads to dashing my high hopes and dreams of a 4-star starting CB opposite Woolfolk on 9-4-10.
I don't want our academic standards changed one bit... it's a point of pride for "football" schools like N'w, Stanford, ND, and UM to win without degrading the over-all academic reputation of the University
You haven't been paying attention to admissions the past decade, have you? This situation re: academic eligibility at Michigan isn't a phenomena unique to Rich Rod. Even the conspiracy theorists at the recruiting boards admit as such.
questionable kids like Eugene Germany, Marques Slocum and other players in in the past. Michigan's standards are the same as everybody else as long as they meet the minimum NCAA qualifying standards.
Lloyd's JUCO Austin Panter.
He went to JUCO because he hadn't played 11 on 11 football in highschool.
Painter was a QB
which is a less of a problem than with JUCO recruit who has 2.5 GPA. It's the matter of transferring credits from JUCO to Michigan which clearly in Austin's case, it's not.
"Michigan's standards are the same as everybody else ...
Oregon St., Kansas State, and numerous non-BCS schools have rosters with a slew of J.C. transfers --- and UM has had exactly 2 in the last 15 years.
I'm pretty sure that suggests that you are wrong
HS recruit, not JUCO recruit which is completely different because of transfer of credits. As for HS recruit, it's either you're eligible by NCAA or you're not.
If I'm talking about JUCO, which I'm not, then it's completely a different situation. Dorsey is not a JUCO recruit and he's a regular HS student.
if you are talking academic integrity I guess you could be right, but integrity? How does signing an 18 year old to a LOI, having him meet all the criteria to attend your insitution and then slamming the door in his face showing integrity? You will have to explain that to me.
The "academic integrity" that so many keep babbling about here and "integrity" are very different, especially in this instance. Here you are trying to maintain this "academic integrity" by sacrificing the institutions integrity IMHE.
Edit: this was to six zeros post about academic integrity way back there somewhere....
It may be all true, but...
"Webb also hinted that Dorsey could be moving on to another school, which would be a double kick in the groin for Rodriguez."
Who TF is John Taylor? That post is Bleacher Report material.
That article links to a previous post by John Taylor about Dorsey possibly not making it in. At the end, he mentions Dorsey's arrests, then says, "Yep, sounds like a quintessential Rodriguez recruit to me."
He signed a LOI to attend Michigan. That means that he wanted to go there. If he didn't quite make it for whatever reason, he's probably gonna be pretty upset. Think about it. He might have to relegate himself to Florida State. I'm guessing he would feel worse about it than any of us.
If he ends up at Florida State I'm going to be pissed. We worked hard to get his commitment and now he could be going to another school??? This just sucks.
Not that I trust anything coming out of Birkett's tweethole, but is it possible that the LOI was tendered with the knowledge that Demar's qualifying was going to be a tight thing and that final grades would have to be at a certain level if he could actually come onto campus? And that even though final grades have not been issued, that school officials/teachers are very well aware of how DD has been doing in his final classes (not well, according to the scenario) and that info has leaked out?
Regardless, it really seems his recruitment has been cursed from the beginning.
I have no problem with the hypothetical described in the content of your post. I think it's fine to say to a kid, "We'll give you a scholarship, but only if you get your grades up to (whatever benchmark)."
What would be strange would be, as your title suggests, that he's being kept out for reasons other than grades (assuming those "reasons" are the same troubles he had in the past). I hope that if he's being kept out for non-academic reasons, that they are new reasons, i.e., new (post-signing day) transgressions of some kind (of which I have no evidence, btw).
I hope that if he's being kept out for non-academic reasons, that they are new reasons
Sam knows something -- he's hinted at it more than once, but he just can't be specific about it. The tendency is to assume it is a problem, but it could be a change of heart. I'm not sure I would want to come either, after getting smacked around in the local media like he did.
You make a good and irrefutable point: Dorsey himself could be having second thoughts, although the espn post just below this makes it seem as if Michigan is holding off letting him in for some reason.
If he qualifies through the NCAA I would like to see him given a chance to go to UM. When you are 15-16 years old and are an incredible athlete it's easy to dick off in math class because you don't have the long term thinking process to understand how bad you might be fucking yourself. The only reason I mention the athlete part is because in that class there is probably ten other kids doing the same thing, the difference is the NCAA will never give a shit what their core GPA is.
Once DD is on campus he,like all football players, will have access to tudors as well as attend mandatory study hall. The chances that he does well in class will never be more in his favor than the day he sets foot on campus. Hope it works out for him and I will believe he isn't coming when TOMVH tells me so. Dave Birkett can shut the fuck up, I am more interested in what the WVU alumni have to say about RR.
This was just posted on ESPN..
"Demar is an NCAA qualifier with a 2.5 or 2.6 GPA and an 18 score on the ACT," said James. "But he hasn't yet been granted at Michigan."
There is no way DD is the first kid with a 2.5 GPA and 18 ACT score to be recruited by UM. If true, this really sucks. Maybe he can join Witty at Cincy and in a couple years Butch Jones can thank UM admissions for giving him a great defensive backfield
Suggests that the hold up may deal with Demar's past legal issues. The same legal issues he had on signing day. I don't understand the bureacratic structure at Michigan, Sam Webb maintained that the decision to offer Dorsey and accept his commitment was not just a Rich Rod decision, that others at the University were in on approving the offer. Wouldn't one of those other parties have to be admissions?!
Given our administrative problems as of late, perhaps it is too much to expect for the athletic department to work closely with admissions to vet these kids.
As bitter as I sound, the true "loser" in this scenario is (may be?) Demar Dorsey, who may be denied 4 years in Ann Arbor, a time of my life I wouldn't trade.
The article says:
James suggested that some of Dorsey's issues with his admission may stem from his previous transgressions with the law.
"It's very possible," James added. "I've been talking with the coaches [at Michigan] and they continue to work on it."
This gives me the impression that the coaching staff is more-or-less lobbying the admissions department to let him in.
If it isn't a qualification issue and rather a legal issue, I would hope this is something new that we haven't heard of. If this is for his past transgression, then U of M admissions just cost us a good player.
Sounds like we need D.B. to step in and have a sit down with Admissions and give them his "Do You Know the Enemy?" speech/ song!
I feel very bad for this kid. He is trying to achieve his dream of playing football on a big time stage and it seems he is getting trampled on. First, he gets a hackjob from the Freep and now this debacle. I really hope the admissionsoffice is not being political and taking away Rich Rod's best recruit for the entire Big Ten to help the "Fire Rich Rod" regime. Everybody deserves a second chance, let this kid prove himself.
I think some people have a distorted view of UM and the academics on a national scale. UM isnt lumped in with schools like Stanford. UM is considered by most to be a "good" school. 99.99999% of the world would say UM (in an academic sense) is on par with OSU or PSU. And schools like them are not only getting multiple 5 star recruits.....they are finding a way to get them admitted. We however get lucky enough to get a single 5 star to still come around and cant find a way to get him in? UM needs to find a way to get this kid cleared. We arent Northwestern. Who respects NW(in a football sense)? Thier football program is a joke and they arent even taken seriously. But ask an alumn and they'll defend with "but we have high standards". Is that what we are aspiring to?
MIchigan's strengh is its graduate programs. The UofM is one of the leading research universities in the world.
With respect to undergraduate education, Michigan's commitment to diversity and to instate students unfairly lowers its ranking because the measures used to do the ranking do not take such things into account. Nevertheless, the University of Michigan is ranked well ahead of OSU and PSU.
Michigan engineering is consistently in the top 5 for most areas, top 10 for others. Michigan pharmacy, law, business, are all incredibly strong (top 5 or top 10). OSU and PSU aren't even close. I'd be surprised if they were even top 25.
Michigan is #8 across all engineering majors. Northwestern is only #24. Purdue is #13 and Wisconsin is #15. I dunno why people think Northwestern is so great.
Michigan is # 7 overall tied with Carnegie Mellon. Illinois is suprisingly ranked higher, which I don't necessarily agree with. Purdue also makes the list at #9. Northwestern is not to be found.
No one can deny that Stanford and Berkeley are superior schools, but Michigan is no slouch either. Generally, Michigan is considered a Tier II school within Academia (Tier I is Stanford, Berkeley, MIT, CMU for graduate-level computer engineering), with schools like PSU and OSU not even making the list.
You know what, I re-read both the real articles (ESPN, and Detnews), and I don't see where it says Michigan has not accepted Demar after he has passed the clearinghouse. In something I read recently, someone branded us Michigan fans an Eeyorish group.
Maybe we're all worried about nothing. Maybe the admissions department requires official notification from the NCAA, and transcripts, etc., and those things all come though their own individual bureaucracies ...
Maybe the reported fact that his grades are high enough that he has or will clear the NCAA clearinghouse is good news, and we all should just chill out while the wheels of administration turn.
Before we get too upset at our admissions department, we should note that we don't suffer that much academic attrition among the players we do admit. Other schools have a higher rate of academic casualties. That may be related to us being slightly pickier about whom we admit. The reality is that the guys who struggle to become qualified in the first place often go on to struggle academically at the college level (and this has happened to some of the guys we've sent to prep school, like Slocum and McKinney). Our admissions department has to make an informed decision about whether or not a kid can survive academically here. Based on our low academic-casualty rate, they seem to be doing a good job overall.