to play football, not to play trumpet
He gave Hoke the Hand.
Bummer, best of luck. FWIW he looked way better in the maize and blue uniform when they showed it.
Hard to say no to Alabama, 3 of the last 4 titles, on track for another.
The red from Bama clashed with the orange in his hair. Blue looked much better.
The coaches have to execute better or something.
Hello depression. My name is Wee-Bey, nice to meet you.
One has to wonder if the recent product on the field has anything to do with this or if the chance to play at 'Bama is just too good to pass up right now.
If we were undefeated like we should be if we were playing to our potential...I think we'd have more hype and attention. I think he'd be blue.
I also know that if we were undefeated, our fans wouldn't be going crazy...talking about FIRE HOKE/FIRE BORGES. And the atmosphere and attitude around Michigan would be so much more positive.
Wouldn't shock me if we "lose" McDowell too.
Undefeated like we should be?
If this really depresses you, reevaluate your priorities in life.
It doesn't, however, it was fun to write. Although, I am disappointed.
And what everyone needs!
The Michigan football program as a whole has just been depressing to follow as of late. There seems to be no optimism on the board anymore, and Hand choosing Alabama is just pouring salt in an open wound...
I counter salt on the wound with Peppers. We got Peppers!!!! Happy thoughts, guys.
Peppers on an open wound be even worse!
if our D closed out the games against PSU and Nebraska instead of giving up TD drives and were 6-3. Can't say I blame the kid for picking Bama.
are you fucking high? Our d kept us in games this season. Anyone that thinks there is blame to be put on Mattison/D is incredibly off tilt.
and massive finger pointing at the coaches by the fans and media sent a negative vibe to him. Academics probably was not the deciding factor against us. Oh well. Time to move on.
The rich get richer, and the somewhat less richer get on TWIS.
I said this last week but apparently he went with engineering instead of sport's management. Pretty surprising though.
See, this makes no sense. 'Bama's engineering program isn't even in the same league as UM's. No sense.
Hoke told him he couldn't do Michigan's Engineering program. It's too time intensive for football. Alabama will let him do it.
Really? Patrick Omameh was in Engineering. We've had others over the years.
Was it Hoke, or was it that he didn't have the grades to get into the School of Engineering?
IIRC, Omameh switched his major to sociology after his third year, which would make sense seeing as that's when Hoke took over and apparently told folks that engineering was too time intensive.
(I had never heard of this until today regarding Michigan telling recruits that they couldn't do engineering. That's pretty weak.)
Considering we wouldn't let Harbaugh do effing History, it can't be much of a stunner
There aren't enough hours in the day to do D1 football and Eng well at the same time.
With no malice attached to the statement, Hand will recognize this too eventually.
If one was extreme enough to want to do both in life, take a Math major during the first 4 and graduate. Then enroll in the Eng of your choice and continue the adventure. In my day, a Math major and an ME major were about 3 classes different in the math requirements.
and Bama did the opposite. However, the cynical side of me thinks that his major had much less to do with his decision than everyone originally thought.
I'm wondering if he had the grades because you can't automatically choose - even as an athlete - which college of U-M you want to attend, if your academic credentials aren't good enough. The borderline guys usually only can enroll in the School of Kinesiology.
Actually, no. 15 years ago the borderline players went into Kinesiology. Today the borderline players go into LSA for General Studies. The School of Kinesiology is the 2nd hardest undergraduate program to get into on campus (Music, theater, and dance is hardest) by percentages. Less than one of three applicants get into Kinesiology. If you go straight up by the numbers, the average high school GPA and ACT scores of Kinesiology entering freshmen are higher than or equal to those of LSA entering freshmen.
Unless I'm mistaken, Sports Management and Communications is in the School of Kinesiology, and that's what the borderline guys generally major in.
The major was changed to Sports Management several years ago, instead of Sports Management and Communication. They also got rid of the automatic admission slots to Kinesiology for athletes. Lastly, they installed a junior admission procedure for Sports Management that requires students to take maintain a certain GPA in specific Sports Management courses as Freshman and Sophomores before applying at the end of their Sophomore year to gain admission to the Sports Management major. As a result, things have changed a lot.
There are actually very few football players in the School of Kinesiology at Michigan. The media guide has 113 players listed. Of these, 6 are in kinesiology that aren't freshmen:
There are 6 more true freshmen in kinesiology:
Chris Wormley (freshman)
Delano Hill (freshman)
Maurice Hurst (freshman)
Mike McCray (freshman)
Shane Morris (freshman)
Csont’e York (freshman)
If recent history is a predictor, at least half of these freshmen will transfer to LSA before finishing their playing days or graduation (whichever comes first).
In contrast, there are over 30 football players majoring in General Studies.
Or Alabama will do that thing they do...
Before he commits.
"Major? Sure, yeah, whatever you want kid..."
After arriving on campus
"Oh, engineering? Oh, man. No. No. Sorry. That's too time intensive..."
Color me a cynical bastard, but we're discussing a program that doesn't give two shits about giving their own players the boot just because they aren't up to snuff at football, 3 or 4 years into their collegiate career.
Regardless, good luck to Hand. Seems like a really good kid.
Yeah people say that. Numbers don't show that but yeah people say that.
Honestly, I have known athletes who want to study something real and didn't because it was too hard to do that and be an athlete.
That said, as a parent with two high schoolers looking at colleges, there is something to be said for balancing the desire to be challenged by the best school, and the practicality of getting into a program where your child will be able to compete with the other students in the program.
I think if Da'Shawn decided he really wanted to do engineering - then going to 'Bama may actually be the better choice from an ability to keep up and compete academically while also playing football at the major D1 level.
Either way, he seems like a great kid, and I hope he gets that degree.
It seems the coaches pushed Sports Management because it's easier to manage playing football than engineering. Anyone who did the engineering program at Michigan can tell you how difficult it is to do without trying to be an All-American DE. Hoke tends to be honest and up-front with recruits and probably told him that they didn't think he could do it so pushed the sports management front. Alabama probably had no such qualms and maybe honestly believe they can have him do both programs, although, knowing Nick Saban, I really, really doubt it.
Jordan Morgan is in the engineering program.
Huyge did as well right?
Ya Hyuge was in the Naval Engineering Program. As for Morgan, good for him. Morgan went to my high school and has always been a pretty intelligent and focused guy considering his athletic potential. Many of our other athletes would leave because they couldn't or didn't want to stay academically eligible. However, Morgan is just one example in comparison to the hundreds of other main sport athletes that don't do it. From what has been reported, it seemed Michigan was trying to sell him on financial management instead of engineering. Edit: Got lazy and just posted both responses in this comment. Sorry.
Michigan's CoE would try to make you fail in the first two years so they can keep the best and the brightest which is why their rankings are so high.
It worked out well for Jordan Morgan who already graduated from CoE and the basketball team travels more than the football team... Just saying
Hoke screwed the pooch on Hand's recruitment. I realize that it's easier for football players to earn degrees in other disciplines leaving more time for football preparation, but given that Huyge just finished his degree in Naval Architecture & Marine Engineering while starting as right tackle, there is at least precedence that it can be done. And no, the civil program is probably not more difficult than the NAME program; there's a reason the undergrads in my department took the Civil fluids class instead of the Mechanical fluids class.
It makes sense when reports were that M told him no can do with regard to engineering.
Which is exactly why he chose Bama. You can't play football and get an engineering degree at U-M.
Please let Mark Huyge know of this rule.
This rule appears to be a Hoke mandate (Omameh was an engineering major under RR) and 2011 was Huyge's fifth year, so Mark was probably either finishing up his last few courses or already in possession of his Michigan degree at that point.
You obviously don't force someone to change majors in their last year regardless of what rule you have have in place for incoming folks.
I seem to remember his Dad and Grandpa doing medicine and he's an engineer? Hoke recruited him, right?
enrolled in the College of Engineering, majoring in industrial and operations engineering.
So there is obviously no rule in place.
There might not be a rule, but you don't think its a little weird that before he visited michigan he was on record as saying he wanted to be an engineer (part of why he liked va tech at the time) and when he visited we had him talk to a sports marketing professor rather than an engineering professor?
Also Wile is a kicker, maybe he has less practice time.
...he was discouraged from going into engineering at Michigan. We don't know.
Yeah, except the engineering program at Bama isn't fucking impossible to get through.
Ummm neither is Michigan's? Just replace all the drinking and video games with football and any engineering grad could have played football and got that degree.
you clearly didn't go through Michigan's engineering program...
"Cut out the drinking and video games," hah. I wish.
I did. And if he has time management skills, which are basically forced on you by the athletics staff, I see no reason you couldn't do engineering and football.
Mark Huyge and Grant Mason did it. Sherrod Harrell did it (playing basketball).
I have friends in engineering who drank and partied more than I did in lsa and did well enough to get into michigan engineering for a masters, so i think you just like to make it sound harder than it actually is for some reason.
I'm going to have to disagree with you. I got my CE degree at a Top 3 institution for such a major. I had no job, and took only 12 hours for my final 5-6 semesters. I barely passed through. Not all engineering majors are considered equal. Sure, Bama has CE, too, but I imagine it's not as intensive or material-engulfing as Michigan's.
I got a CE degree from Michigan. It took me 4 years. I went to less and less classes every year. By senior year I didn't go to class besides first day and exams, I never even set an alarm after sophmore year. Even freshmen year when I went to all my classes I had plenty of free time. It's not that hard or time-consuming and what do we lose if we let him go engineering? He either can do it, he can't and he changes major, or far less likely he can't and transfers somewhere else.
You're probably just smarter than I am, in that case.
yep, just keep thinking he chose Alabama over Michigan because of the engineering program. I'm sure it doesn't have to do with the other big part of his life, football. Where Alabama has won 3/4 Nat Championships and we have lost 3/4 game. Real head scratcher there.
Maybe. Kind of.
2 weeks have been awesome for Michigan fans....sigh
Basketball is pretty good, if you ask me. It could be 2008. or 09. No good bball or fball.
Lets just be clear about one thing: this was NOT primarily about academics, as was the storyline
As soon as you say you like Bama because of their engineering program over Michigan, you're making stuff up to justify it.
Which isn't really necessary when Bama's going to win their 4th title in the last 5 years this January. That's reason enough.
If you do a straight apples to apples comparison of engineering departments, yeah you'd choose UM over Bama. However, the UM coaches were steering him towards a Sports Management degree whereas Bama told him they were fine with him doing engineering.
So you have a dynasty telling him he can major in engineering or a program that appears to be struggling giving him hints they'd rather not have him major in engineering.
There was a rumor that he was dissuaded from going into engineering at Michigan but not at Alabama. Maybe that's true. Maybe it's not. But we don't know, and we're only guessing if we try to read his motivation.
There is two Michigan's, hurts but the truth. If the kid really wanted to go into engineering and felt like he was a good student and not the outstanding one that is required to succeed at UM Engineering then 'Bama was a better fit academically.
and that Hand wanted to go into engineering, considering his HS offers some sort of engineering curriculum, but he knew the most realistic option to accomplish that was to pursue an engineering degree at a less demanding program like Alabama vs trying to juggle football and the demands of a top engineering school like UM.
It is often the case where I think athletes who stress academics are not necessarily saying they want to attend the hardest, most demanding, highest ranked program in that field. They are saying they value finding the best academic fit and that is what is important to them.
We win PSU and Neb, and he might have been here. Can't hardly blame him...this program seems to be going backwards.
Borges not willing to adjust has (most likely) cost us a big-time recruit...and I don'y buy Hand's BS on wanting to get an engineering degree, he is going to play football, I will be amazed if he gets an engineering degree at any school while still being a star on the field
And really, a d-lineman with NFL talent going to Bama? Big surprise and can't blame him at all.
Happy trails, Mr. Hand. Alabama is starting to look like the player-controlled team on an EA NCAA Football Dynasty a few years in on easy mode.
For the love of God don't go on his Twitter, people. It's a pretty easy choice for him. We suck at football, they're the best at football. Id have doubts about Michigan after watching this year too.
whose scholarship and free education have just been donated to Hand.
Seems like a good guy. I'm sure he'll do very well.
Seriously. There's every appearance he gave it a lot of consideration, and chose to go with the two-time national champion and a bit of a dynasty.
So good luck to Da'Shawn Hand.
what a bunch of BS, the last 2 weeks keep getting better (by better I mean worse).
I just have a feeling the past 2 weeks of play really hurt us here, thanks again Al Borges!
lol you are both bitter and didn't bother to read. Michigan told him he couldn't do engineering and football. What is better if engineering is your back up plan? an engineering degree from alabama or a sports marketing degree from michigan? And of course football really comes first anyways, if any recruit ever had academics truly number 1 their list would go stanford, all the ivy schools, berkely, ucla, and other private schools before they got to michigan anyway.
edit: sorry this was meant for the post above.
The coaching staff didn't execute
Oh well. Good luck, Mr. Hand.
The difference in education for engineering is comical...Why did Michigan take that off the board. Whelp...bad month of coaching decisions.
We run the ball for positive yards
We blow out teams like UCONN and Akron
We win a lot
We make halftime adjustments
We develop players to their max potential
They can HAVE Hand if it meant fixing those basic football issues and our guys playing up to their potential and coaches putting them in positions to win.
If someone gave me that trade, I'd take the team fixes over Hand in a heartbeat.
Unfortuately...he's with Bama and we still suck.
Makes sense. Go to the school that is undefeated and competes for a NC every year or go to the school that is 2-3 in the horrible Big Ten because their offensive staff is a joke.
Gotta wonder if Michigan was 8-1 and still had a chance at a BCS Bowl if things could have been different.
I'm a little surprised, but then I think about this logically, and I'm not. At all.
Nonetheless, cue the "ESS EEE CEE PAYS PLAYERS LOLOLOL!!" apologists.
the sleeper recruits.....
Sucks but isn't the end of the world; he's just one player in a team sport. Can hardly blame him for going to a team with so much recent success. Wish him luck in his career. Go Blue!
Well, good luck to him and cue the Jay-Z
Put us out of our misery.
He said he wanted to go somewhere that he can win at. Now Hoke has to realize he can't get the recruits that he wants with Borges losing games with crappy play calling. Hope Peppers doesn't switch and follow Hand!
He puts our defense on the field all the time...they get plenty of opportunities to shine.
Come to Michigan, where the opponent ALWAYS has the ball on your side of the field.
Maybe this will be another incident that pushes Hoke to can Borges after the season. After all, if defensive recruits are avoiding your school because the offensive production isn't up to snuff, that's really saying something.
obviously FIRE BORGES
So who gets a call now that we have another scholarship free?
Another DE, because I'm no confident we're going to get McDowell either.
This entire saga was too good to be true. Oh well. sad. saddness.
Alabama is continuing their unprecedented (or nearly unprecedented) run and Michigan is going in reverse currently, casualties like this are bound to happen.
Cant blame him...
Because that's the only way for a school like Alabama to be able to pull a recruit away from us right?
The Dean of the 'Bama Engineering program has stated that they "take care" of their football players. Academics, baby, academics!
I hate u now more than ever
Let it out.
Go to Alabama and win NCs or pick between two tire fire programs? I can't blame this kid a bit. Our coaching staff on the other hand (hur hur).........
Confirmed: this year's struggles do matter. He talked about having a chance to win a national championship. After UTL II, it looked like we were close; now it looks a long way away.
Also, if he was even close to being undecided in the last two weeks, the chaos we've endured compared with Bama's big boy football game against LSU was a startling contrast.
It's always difficult to lose a top recruit. With the way things are going, though, this is extra devastating for Hoke.
For all of us, really.
This may be an even more depressing thought: Michigan's record since 2006 is abysmal compared to Alabama's. Hand was a kid when Michigan was better than Alabama. He probably didn't need the MSU and Nebraska games to think Bama was a better place to win a national championship.
If Michigan was 8-1 right now, we'd be in the thick of things for a Big Ten title and possibly a BCS birth. Instead, we're 6-3, 2-3 in the Big Ten, with two bad losses and two bad wins.
An 8-1 Michigan team...Hoke can spin that as an up and coming team that is just a couple pieces away.
A 6-3 Michigan team that has looked the way this one has...Yeah, not much you can do.
Maybe it wouldn't have mattered. Maybe Alabama had him the whole time. But throwing this season away so Al Borges could do whatever it is he's doing probably didn't help.
Alabama has won three out of the last four national championships. Michigan has won one BCS game since 2000. Since 2003, Michigan has lost to an FCS school as often as it's defeated OSU. Michigan hasn't won a Big Ten title since 2004.
Here are the school's records since 2007 (when Hand was in sixth grade):
2007: 9-4 for Michigan (w/ loss to App State), 7-6 for Alabama
2008: 3-9 for Michigan, 12-2 for Alabama
2009: 5-7 for Michigan, 14-0 for Alabama (won national championship)
2010: 7-6 for Michigan, 10-3 for Alabama
2011: 11-2 for Michigan, 12-1 for Alabama (won national championship)
2012: 8-5 for Michigan, 13-1 for Alabama (won national championship)
I agree, but he was pretty high on Michigan early in the year. The more we struggled, the more we seemed to hear about Alabama.
It'd just be nice to be able to say "Well, he chose Alabama because they are great" instead of "Well, perhaps if we hadn't blown this entire season, he would be a Wolverine".
It seemed like his Bama visit really helped their cause, though. A lot of the "he's going to Michigan" talk was before his official to Tuscaloosa.
It's not just the history or the losses. It's the way the team looks-the problems with player development, the real chance of significant staff changes. Suddenly, this is not a team on the rise.
Hand was, apparently, quite excited after UTL II. And why not? Michigan looked fantastic, the fans were happy, it was finally "Hoke's team," going where they wanted.
And now it's chaos. There aren't just struggles-there is major, catastrophic failure in areas like the OL. Like, all-time historical failure.
And the sheen is off. If Hoke was wrong about the offense, how can any recruit trust him to turn it into a national title in two years?
I don't know what his past Saturday was like, but if it was like mine, watching us then watching Bama, can't say I'd blame him for the decision he made.
A commitment would have been a nice tonic to the shitshow on the field the past two weekends to be sure, but I'm not quite devastated. This event won't make or break our football program, and this team will get better even without Hand.
Ducking Borges. I'm done with recruiting.
The other recruits who picked Michigan are glad to know.
In fact, after the National Championship game, I'm putting away all things college football and will not bring them out again until Mid-July, when all the preseason guides are relased, probably in a similar fashion to what a normal college football fan does. I've been a year-round fan for about five seasons now. An off-season break is due.
Payback for Dee Hart? Maybe? Where's Mike Shula when you need him?
Well Texas actually has a good engineering school so we'd probably be boned still.
Meh, it happens. If I'm Hand, why wouldn't I pick the two-time reigning champion. It will be interesting to see if he sticks around if Saban goes to Texas or some other destination.
You make Michigan fans look foolish. Go flush your head in a toilet. That is all.
I presume this is directed at someone other than me because otherwise, not really sure where the hate is coming from.
On the app you can see posts submitted by caved posters, and his was in fact a reply to a caved user who called Hand a douchebag.
Figured as much. I usually only get that level of response from Xbox Live when I play any game against people under 50.
What, if anything, does this mean for McDowell?
You can sell him on, we didn't get the player we really wanted, we have zero pass rush, and as you can see, we play freshman.
Apparently academics wasn't as important to Hand as everyone thought. Michigan in the top #10 and Bama in the 100-110 range just another guy who says one thing but does another with academics. However, best of luck to him at Alabama. Hopefully he has a great career.
But when Texas throws money at him Saban is out the door
Bama coaches don't lie....
Laughed my ass off at the Bama coaches don't lie thing. Hope he doesn't ever get injured or he'll see how much Saban really cares about his players.
Good luck to him. Just hope he doesn't actually end up needing that engineering degree.
Good luck to him. Hope he gets a degree and doesn't end up in the Saban Memorial Hospital.
I think this 3 game losing streak, and how shitty we looked, played a major role in Hand's decision. Thanks Al
This leaves UM with a 5 star and a ton of 4 stars - not sure how the program survives. Maybe Hoke needs to coach up the bevy of talent he has. I know, it is asking for the moon so it doesnt risk losses at home to the Akrons of the world. The cupboard is bare, with only 4 stars everywhere.
he recruits 4 stars and his teams regress. That's the spin right now everywhere else.
Maybe our DLine coach didn't impress him
Not surprised. This coaching staff can't develop players.
Jabrill Peppers said it himself, if you want to win national championships of course Alabama is the place to go.
Can't really argue with his choice.
Glad we still have Mone & Marshall with a chance at McDowell.
I know everyone wanted good news, but he's one kid and no one knows how he's going to pan out. I wish him the best.
Feel shitty now for taking his commitment for granted.
To everyone bashing Alabama's academics, there isn't much that separates our institutions in terms of undergraduate education, it's the graduate programs that make a significant difference.
Yeah as an engineer I can't agree with this at all. Alabama isn't even in the same conversation.
Go read the damn rankings. Michigan #28, Alabama #86. Yeah, yeah, methodology and all, but that doesn't explain that big of a gap.
With undergrad engineering, M is #7, Alabama nowhere to be found.
Michigan one of the best undergrad sports management, 'bama not mentioned:
This was about ball, period. So just stop it.
...he was told he could go into engineering at Bama but not Michigan.
is not true. maybe the equations are all the same, but the facilities and opportunities are better here. ex. solar car, formula & hybrid, multiple aero groups etc.
this shouldnt devistate us because for alot of us we were already dead inside.
The longer this thing dragged on, the worse I felt about it. Alabama got a recent visit, and we've been sucking wind lately. Good luck to him.
I hope he doesn't change his mind! It's a long time till signing day.
Peppers isn't going anywhere, why do people think he's going to leave? Seriously everything he does/says is pro Michigan and he grew up idolizing the Wolverines. Barring a crazy shakeup at head coach he's not going anywhere.
one recruit. relax.
Why can't we have nice things?
We have all the nice things? I WANT THEM ALLLLLLLL
Gotta blame Borges I think more than anything
we handle PSU and Nebraska, I think this is a different story
in the end as i said in my previous post
it was never about academics, if your comparing Alabama academically to Michigan, than it is a joke.
I don't care if Alabama is aflagship state school, I could sleepwalk at alabama and get a 4.0, probably the same at ole miss and miss st.
No way this was about academics in the end, nobody in their right mind would choose Bama over Michigan in academics except BBQ, White sheets, rednecks and Pig Racing and washing and underwater basket weaving.
Bama - 100-122nd ranked engineering school
Michigan - Top 10
yeah i know, undergrad ain't grad
I'm sorry but still to compare Bama undergrad to Michigan is a joke.
So much for academics. Saw right thru this.
In the end the blame is more on Borges and the offense than anything I think ..Keep playing bad offense, gonna be getting 2 and 3 stars soon.
Lol at this, this has been pointed out numerous times in this thread but michigan told him he couldn't do engineering and football, so no point in comparing. And like i said before if someone was picking where to play football with academics as the number 1 issue, they would go to stanford, northwestern, berkeley, ucla before us and depending on what they studied unc, uva,texas, and nd are all big schools with division 1 football, players in the nfl and academics ranked as highly or better than michigan.
No matter what happened in those games Bama still had the advantage. Three national titles and a dozen defensive players drafted high is why he chose Bama.
Possibly, but did those games help?
You know the answer to that.
well...has any recruit still went with Michigan that had such a long process? I'm just thankful I no longer pay for ESPN's site - TVH is an 'insider'? Yeah, about as much as I am! :)
yeah, I'm just a poor sport.
I would have done the same if I were him. This coaching staff is pathetic.
Also, NO COFFEE FOR THE STAFF THIS WEEK.
Is for closers!!!
come to San Diego St., we have real earthquakes out here! I hope Saban goes to Texas and pisses off all these Bama recruits, fuck this shit. It sure does feel like SEC pays players.
I'm sure it had nothing to do with the chance to play for national championships and a coach with multiple national championships and a reputation for incredible defenses.
I really really hope that people don't start bashing the kid on twitter. Sadly I know it will happen.
which sucks, but that's the reality of college sports and the most awful thing created (twitter).
can't blame him, but in a lot of ways, recruits set themselves up for things as well..you can't preach academics being 'your thinig' then choose a school that is literally awful in your major.
All's well that ends well though. I hope Peppers stays on board.
Is it bad that I hope Florida fans make bigger asses of themselves? Seriously, why do grown people need reminders to be civil and not insult people when they make decisions that are personal and affect only them? What is wrong with people...
I'm sure the dismal performance on the field didn't help.
Seemed like a good kid, good luck to him.
We have the 18th ranked class on rivals. 18th! That is unacceptable, who are we going to get to bring that up?
not recruting numbers. We've had 3 good classes under Hoke and we got more production out of RR's 3 star recruits than our current 4 star and above recruits
Really? Who gives a shit where the class is ranked.
You do realize the classes with higher number of kids are in the top-10? Michigan can't take that many this year.
UM's class is smaller than most. Anyways, recruiting rankings are no indicator of future success.
First congrats to Hand. Excellent school in terms of football and the academics are good aslo. He can't go wrong with that choice and it was his decision to make. The coaches are now on the clock. This is a big deal. Yes it is one recruit making a decision but this is a signal to other recruits that Michigan needs to be delivering on the promise of the great recruiting the last two years. We need to see changes in the off season at this point and we need big names that are proven and that have a lot of potential. At this point the decision is manball which is fine but we need to get proven coordinators that are going to make a difference and actually use the talent that we have on that side of the ball. This isn't the end of the world but Hoke is going to have to act because we could be at the top of a very slippery slope.
Fire Borges, right?
of events with Football and Basketball recruiting? We are batting 0...
Prince fielder style
We still have TACO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the real (DE) Taco!.... TACO SUPREME!
Hoping that this year's skid doesn't totally kill Hoke's recruiting momentum.
Well, I would say your hope... along with any recruiting momentum is dead. The best thing to do is brace for impact. The way this season has gone, and more importantly, the perception.. there will be more bad news in the days ahead.
Thought exercise to make you feel better.
Let's say that Hand commitment happened earlier in the year and instead it was Jabrill committing today. We are all happy about getting a top 5 player and are positive despite the team seemingly going backwards.
Personally, I think Peppers is a much better player than Hand anyway. Obviously I can't prove that I felt this way before Hand announced he is going to Bama, but I did.
At least you can turn to our great brand of manball for some solace...or basketball, or hockey
dont blame him, id make the same decision. great football both currently and re future prospects, best league, best players, best coaches, best fans / atmosphere, etc. academics are solid and they have similar big time state school endowments and programs -though UM is much higher ranked for those clutching their diplomas. and the weather and ladies are both much hotter down south. so dont blame him at all. UM gave him plenty to consider but the product on the field did not help matters (not saying it hurt, but certainly did not help). tough to miss on such a seemingly great kid who plays such a position of need, and apparently plays it well. you want a 4man pass rush? those are the kind of players you need and unfortunately they just missed on a big one. dominant DL are so important if you want to run an honest scheme and not have to cover up other weaknesses on your D, big time loss, the rich get richer. much luck to the kid, ill def be rooting for him. heres hoping mcdowell stays in state with the wolverines since they desparately need beasts in front 4
Michigan's future success, or lack there of, didn't hinge on one defensive lineman's decision. Jadeveon Clowney hasn't helped South Carolina that much when it comes to the team's wins and losses. Peppers is far more likely to make an instant impact.
Not that this isn't a big loss, because it is, but Peppers' position and skill-set are far more important to our success in the near future. Peppers will certainly see some time on O as well, one would think.
I'll say good luck to the young man (as if he needed it at Bama) really only frustrating to me because of the academic aspect. Makes my head spin when someone plays that card and then goes to the SEC. They'll do anything for their football players. Anything
about what academics being important means to a high school recruit. I don't recall hand ever saying that academics being important meant that he wanted to choose the highest ranking, hardest degree program around.
We may get one or two guys in a recruiting class to commit late that we were not supposed to get (Henne, Breaston), but for the most part, we sign a bunch of guys early and miss out on the big names late.
We got LaMarr Woodley AND Jerome Jackson on the same night. It was amazing.
It was going to be special.
Sidenote, why are you crying about not closing a recruiting class in November?
We normally sign a lot of guys early and then late in the recruiting season, when the big names are ready to make a decision, there's no space for them even if there was space. I think Penn State does something similar, but a lot of southern schools seem to do the opposite. Maybe because of a larger talent pool?
But if you have to go back ten years, which I think was the year we snagged Henne and Breaston late, that makes me wonder why we seem to have our class mostly full already. That was a core for that great 2006 team. What happens if our class is full and we have no spots for Breaston or Henne?
Oh, and I consider November late because HS football seasons are ending so this is the period when a lot of kids start deciding and we're close to the end of another long recruiting period for a class.
If Hoke's excuse for us losing is player's not executing...
Who's to blame for this?
Our DLine coach
There's no one really to blame. Every school loses some recruiting battles, and losing to Alabama is certainly understandable.
I'm just disappointed that I allowed myself to start following his recruitment the last few days. I had been mostly ignoring recruiting news this year, and allowing myself to be pleasantly surprised when guys committed.
Execution doesn't matter that much.
Oh, that's easy.
Hand simply did not execute his decision properly.
Best of luck to Da'Shawn Hand at Alabama.
This stings for Michigan fans all the same, of course. Somehow it figures that it was at that moment of the announcement that I got a call saying that my wife's car need about $800 in repairs. That about summed up the moment for me personally.
great players want to play with other great players. Nobody is cheating at Alabama. Nobody is cheating at Kentucky. These kids want to win NC's, get to the league and become millionaires. Period. In that context, alabama is the obvious choice.
hahahahahaha are you serious?
Smoke follows Calipari wherever he goes. Of course KY is cheating, just like his prior teams did. They just haven't been caught yet. And Saban cheats too, by exploiting oversigning rules as has long been detailed.
Hahahaha, nobody is cheating at Kentucky?
At least we're a basketball school
Well good luck to you Mr. Hand! Wish you would have gone Blue! On to the next recruit I guess.
The life lesson from this is to not listen to anything recruits say, especially when it comes to academics. These are football players first and foremost and the great ones will always choose the university that they feel gives them the best chance to be successful in their pro football careers.
Greatest school. Bama is a solid academic school where he will succeed academically and on the field. The kid can still value academics and pick bama.
I am in the good luck kid, our putrid performance on the field caused this boat but I think the aghast academic thing is a bit patronizing here. Not like he is going to State.
Curse you, adidas!!!!
Always been my silent theory that we have been terrible since we made the switch. Of course it is likely just coincidence and one could easily point to empty cupboards, bad coaching and changing schemes. However, I think I will stick with the Adidas theory, or maybe the B1G network. It all went downhill from there.
don't suck on the field and go backwards
There's other (sob) recruits (sniff) to pursue (waaaaah).
in the RR years we improved every year.
Yes god damnit yes we fucking did.
Jesus fucking christ.
How is that so god damned hard to fucking understand?
Tell me how we did in the last 3 games of his tenure?
people reference this - as if somehow totally shitting the bed and putting the bar at an incredibly low level in the first year and then "improving" from there is better than winning a BCS game in year 1.
I doubt he ends up in Ann Arbor either.
Relax. MM is a Michigan fan and both his parents are Michigan fans. He just wants his moment on the Army all American game.
I genuinely believe the team's performance in past month or so had a significant role in his decision. Your "pitch" on academics, amenities, and tradition can only extend so far. At the end of the day...would you want to commit to a realing 6-3 team with serious systemic flaws?
Sure, teams have "off" years, but it's important to observe the collective player development (or lack thereof) on this team. As a comitt, I'd want to go where I confidently believe the coaches will make me a better player. I haven't seen that as a whole from our staff.
full of crap. Apparently you are unaware of what Bama has done on the field these past four years. That, more than anything, is why he is going to Bama.
Maybe one reason Alabama has done what it's done on the field is that they're doing a great job of developing players over their careers.
dont disagree, they have great coaching, sabans system is incredible and functions as nfl development factory. but just so happens theyre developing the most talented prospects in the nation every single year. not denying sabans ability to target good system fits, close on them and then brainwash them into playing disciplined yet athletic violent football.. but 9 times out of 10 the kids rolling though the bama developmental factory are freak athletes and members of #1 (or top 3) recrutiing class. gotta have the horses and they do..and after so many consecutively stacked classes theyre insane at every position and miss very infrequently (oh and when they do occasionally miss, they target JC kids like 3-4 of their most recent draft choices on DL - one major avenue saban and almost everyone else exploits and which UM never will). hand made the same decision i would make and most would probably make and i hope he excels. its just a shame UM misses big on the DL since beyer and strobel and heitzman and the rest are just guys, certainly do not have star potential as consistent as some may argue they are
Well add another one to the list of high ranked Michigan leans for a long time that we lose out to. Best of luck to you at Alabama Mr Hand!
Hard to blame him. We're not even close to sniffing a conference championship, much less a national championship. If I were him, I'd probably do the exact same thing. If I'm a top recruit, I expect to compete for national championships. He won't get that here, for the time being.
Besides, I'd rather lose him to Bama than MSU or OSU.
If you are on Twitter, don't send any tweets to Hand unless they are of the "best of luck to you in the future" variety. Don't send him hate filled garbage, that just hurts our appearance with other potential recruits.
Yes this sucks but life will go on.
No don't send him any. He doesn't need luck from people he doesn't know or care about. Leave recruits alone.
in this case, because we need to balance out the inevitable morons that send him hate filled messages with positive messages, in the .01% chance that Saban leaves Bama for Texas and Hand reopens his recruiting. We dont want him to hate Michigan because of a handfull of dumbasses on twitter.
Tough beat, but I cannot blame the kid for choosing the best program in the country. It's nice to see that we are in the final running with a kid like this. We'll get some once we start to get B10 Championships and compete for the NC.
Remember that guy who wrote a glowing report on UM who traveled with Hand to UTLII? His lack of presence in the last week on the board was a good hint about this outcome. The product o the field between these 2 programs are in different orlds - comparing what UM did to Nebraska last week versus Bama vs LSU - I mean these programs are eons apart at every level aside from overall recruiting and facilities. UM's still getting classes ranked top 5 to 15. Everywhere else Bama is superior right now - consider it lucky Peppers grew up a UM fan so we can still get that level of talent.
the last week or so. I think his name was Canzior, or something like that. I saw he posted in a thread the other day, about not being able to get ahold of his friend. Perhaps he knew what was coming...
I actually think this helps our chances with Malik McDowell.
We're just a name school with cool helmets and a big stadium. Since Brady/Henson left, outside of the 2006 team, we've been more a name that people recognize than anything elite. Our name can get kids on campus, which is more than Indiana, Purdue or Minnesota can say.
But our conference is mediocre and we don't appear close to dominating it. Kids see that. They don't care about message board arguments. They care about wins, championships and getting to the pros. If we beat PSU and Nebraska, we're 8-1 and still in the race for a BCS at-large bid and the B1G title game. That's at least something to hang your hat on.
Kids don't want Texas Bowl swag.
But I was kind of hoping for Hand because the difference between Michigan and the current Bamas of the world over the long term has been elite D-linemen...going back just about forever. They're building a good line, but that sure fire NFL prospect is one that doesn't come along that often. So this one hurts. Damn.
It's almost shameful how optimistic I felt this morning, and how down I am right now. Like so many others, I'm thinking he viewed UM's trajectory as down, not up, and unless/until Saban leaves Alabama, they will stay at the top. I really hoped he was like Jabrill Peppers and loved UM and wanted to help bring UM back. Sam Webb said his decision wouldn't be about the past two weeks, but I am convinced it was. If he thought UM had any shot at a national championship game in the next 2-4 years, I think he would have made a different decision. Now, not only am I sad that UM seems to be regressing, we are also losing out on players who could help right the ship. I wish him all the best, at Alabama and after, but this one is tough to take.
I made a block M-shaped cake, and said it would be a celebratory cake if he chose UM and a consolation cake if he didn't. I think I'm going to get more cake.
Think about it, if Hand has his eyes on an Engineering Degree the chances of getting said Engineering Degree and having a chance to play pro football are far more likely in an SEC school than a B1G school. That and the fact that this team and this conference in general (except Ohio apparently) are not all that great.
At least were good at basketball and hockey.....I swear I'm starting to feel like this is a D3 conference in terms of our football than that of a D1 conference.
to be successful even #1 ranked ones. Glad to have peppers, I have a feeling hand will have a solid junior year then be gone at bama like he was never there.
We'll always have Akron...
Like the majority of kids, he chose the path of least resistance to a degree. In this case, engineering.When kids say they chose a school for academics they're probably not lying. Said school will be easier and they know it.
You don't know this and I would highly doubt the engineering program at bama is less difficult than sports mgmt at Michigan.
I don’t get how so many people feel that going to a school that isn’t ranked as high as Michigan according to US News means that academics are pushed to the side. There is much more to picking a school than where it ranks. In fact, school ranking is really meaningless because how you perform academically is about fit and motivation. If you really care about academics you are going to pick a school that isn’t going to overwhelm you, yet still motivate you to succeed. Performance is dependent more on the student than on the departmental perception. I’m sure there are many Alabama engineering grads that are doing just as well as Michigan engineering grads.
That being said if I'm someone whom is serious about engineering and being able to maximize my knowledge in that field, I would naturally want to arm myself accordingly. You should know coming in that engineering and it's various practices and methods are going to be challenging especially when they need to be applied in a career that require you to know what is you're doing and doing correctly without any errors.
An error in engineering could be the outcome of a successful routine space shuttle launch and what happened to the Challenger Space launch. The room for error is microscopically slim to nil. That same comparison could be applied to having a Michigan engineering degree which is extensive and methodical versus an Alabama Engineering degree that just may gloss over the basic principles in the start and neglecting the more detailed bits latter.
If Hand were serious about Engineering the obvious is obvious but he turns around and makes a choice based more on making football a career rather then academics a priority as he "claimed" they were. Clearly we know what he was really after.
Good luck in Tuscaloosa, as I'm pretty sure an Alabama Engineering Degree might not count for much.
Good lord .
I have a UofM civil engineering degree and you are wrong. The difficulty in academia is pretty much irrelevant when it comes to whether or not one is going to be a good engineer. How you apply yourself after you graduate is what really counts. That's when your engineering judgement starts to form. In addition Civil Engineering requires a PE license which requires a minimum of four documented years of applicable work experience in addition to passing a 8 hour licensing exam and an additional 16 hour exam in some states.
Don't kid yourself into thinking that the school that one graduates from actually matters in the real world when it comes to engineering. An Alabama grad can design a building just as sturdy as a Michigan grad.
Then how can you claim Alabama Civil Engineering degree can be comparable. I point blank disagree that all regardless of what school you go to the standard for the curriculum is the exact same.
While it great you can tell me all this information applies to you getting your degree and how it helped you, you can't honestly tell me that the classes in regards to Alabama's are comparable nor the standards on what is needed especially since I'm guessing you have never attended an engineering class at Alabama.
Comparable to what? If we are comparing rankings and course difficulty then I’m not going to argue with those who say that UofM is more difficult or higher ranked. I’m also not saying that the curriculum is standard, but it is going to be close if it is an accredited program. One of my big gripes about UofM engineering is that the undergrad curriculum wasn’t extensive enough.
I practice structural engineering and I can tell you that the difficulty or extent of my college coursework is completely irrelevant to how well I do designing structures. What goes in to making one a good engineer is not dependent on the school one graduates from but how one applies himself after school. You are suggesting that somehow the name of the school on the piece of paper that hangs on your wall indicates your ability to do your job. This is simply not true.
According to your logic, hypothetically a student whom got a civil engineering degree from a good MAC school engineering degree with a numbered experience in his field after getting his BA in just as prepared as a similar engineering student whom went to MIT or Cal Tech with comparable experience in the same field as the MAC student. Is that what your saying ?
At least there's Malik & next year's recruits, right? RIGHT?
CUT CUT CUT CUT CUT CUT
I would expect it filled by January, which is fine. No matter how talented, I'd prefer players whose first choice is Michigan, rather than a rebound because of another program's miss steps. Besides from what we know of Hand, he doesn't make decisions lightly, I would expect him to stay with Alabama regardless of coaching changes.
So you don't really want Kalis on our team, got it.
at how bummed I am over this. I know I shouldn't be... Maybe the last few weeks are just getting to me. Or it's just this war, and that lying son of a bitch Johnson...
Forrest Gump reference. Finally, something to make me smile on this thread.
Alabama too. . .
I blame not landing Hand on 2 things:
1. The fact that our team has played shitty all season long (Blame coaches, youth, etc)
2. The fact that in Hand's mind (maybe true, I don't know) that he felt he had to choose between engineering at Bama, or Sports Management at Michigan. We all know Bama's engineering program is a JOKE compared to Michigan's, but let's let our top recruits go for whatever major they want, not dissuade them from certain majors. I don't know if that's what happened, but it sure feels like Hand felt it was either/or.
Best of luck to Da'Shawn at Bama. No hard feelings...just wish you didn't choose the dark side. Saban is a hell of a coach, but he's sold his soul to win at all costs.
Perhaps you are stargazing at the US News rankings. Academics is about fit and motivation rather than ranking according to a magazine. It doesn't mean he won't succeed.
signing him would have given me some much needed faith in our coaches and program.
You develop or lose faith from what you see on the field, not recruits. Hand hasn't played a down yet. For all we know he will be a bust.
which was the National consensus for who knows how long. Aaaaaaaaaand. we lost him. . . couple that with everything else that is going on, it's hard to stomach.
Best of luck to him. And happy birthday!
out that Bama Engineering:Michigan Engineering is Michigan Football:Bama Football.
Lol @ 'student'-athletes. A kid wants to study engineering and we steer him towards a useless degree.
Jim Harbaugh, is that you?
I would have been really put off if a program did that to me.
said that. What advantage do they gain by telling a recruit that they CAN'T do something. . . makes no sense at all.
part is the sheer number of puns we'll miss out on for the next 4 years
"Why not go where it's a great possibility you could win a national championship?" Da'Shawn Hand
He mentioned he doesn't like cold weather. I knew we were effed.
When kids cite "Academics" they don't necessarily mean academic prestige. They are referring to the ease of obtaining the degree and the support system they have for football players.
Maybe he realized who his D Line coach would be?
As I said on the board yesterday in the postwhere "Hand would change the whole complexion of UM football" nonsense - having coaches that develop players is 100x more important to a program than any one or even ten recruits. Sorry it is just is. And since 2000 or so that is a major question in this program. If any of you can make a case for more than 5-6 players making a significant leap from late August to November in development on the field I'd like to hear it. If you have the right coaches our 5-15 ranked classes every year would be fine - see Stanford, Wisconsin, Oregon (who has the same recruitng ranks as us the past 7 years), and now MSU. Sorry it is what it is, I'd take a top end staff over the top 5 players every year.
Don't forget Obama!
Wasn't VA Tech out of running because they didn't have the Sports Management in the first place? In engineering, UM > VA > AL.
Conclusion: People can spin whatever they want and say however they please. Too much attention to their every word and move. In the end, academic < football, and just don't BS any other way.
Alabama not in the Top 10!
Pretty much the same order on most sites I was browsing.
Regardless, we're going to be okay. Just have to win the B1G. We do not have to win the SEC. Let's worry about the task at hand! Big Pun! We have some awesome recruits coming in and we are growing the young men on the current team. Adversity they face today will only make them stronger tomorrow!
Like Jabrill tweeted, "See you at the top!" Go Blue!
Yes, that's exactly my thought.
I haven't got on this site since MSU game until today. Like very fan, very disappointed since I feel like re-living the RR era in a different but similar way. As I said many times before, if we can't win on the road against somewhat decent teams, we will always fall short of "The Expectations."
After MSU game, my first thought was we, as fans, have been sweet-talked by the staff, players, and UM-friendly media before and during the season.
Ex. A: "I really like out D-line this year." (Before the season.)
Ex. B: "It will never happen again." (After Akron game.) Then what happened at UConn game!!!
Ex. C: All the good talks about DG before the season. Handed out all the legacy jerseys way too early to pump up our hopes.
I know college football is always in pendulum swing, with ups and downs every few years, with some downs longs than ups, and vice versa. I just hope we will be up soon.
Yes, AL is currently the gold standard. But they were mediocre for the most part of 15 years prior. I don't really care for AL or other teams that much. I just want our team to be MICHIGAN again, with great confidence on the road (and of course at home), beat down some worthy opponents (like 34-8 at Penn state in 1997), and always beat OSU (+ MSU).
The 2 things I worry about with the way we have been:
1. To win on the road. (Actually, to really perform on the road.)
2. Have underdeveloped our players? With 3 good recruiting classes, we still got ourplayed by opponents with worse recruits?
Also, wasn't Borges supposed to be an offense genius? In the first year, there were lots of talks about his genius formations and trick plays. What happened?
even money says Harris and Campbell end up elsewhere
3-1 on Peppers elsewhere
Keep attempting to troll people by posting this everywhere.
Drake Harris is an early enrolloee, he alreaedy signed his letter right? Unless you mean Darien Harris.
Isn't Peppers an early enrollee too?
hasn't been said...give Hoke and company credit for being in the hunt until the end. Obviously something besides national championships kept him interested, let's not forget how Ohio went. More than Michigan's record I'd point to the general conference weakness along with season struggles.
and, based on the media coverage of him this year, a bright, hardworking, young man of good character. He seems someone who takes a longer view about his life and goals. I rather doubt that he made this decision based on the recent stumbles of the team.
He would have been a heck of a get and in my highly biased opinion would have received a far superior college experience in Ann Arbor. For whatever reason he chose not to come and play for Michigan, only time will reveal how that works out for him.
Michigan football does not rise or fall based on the decision of a single 17-18 year old, no matter how talented. Assuming that every recruiting class is positionally well balanced, the program does not rise or fall based on a single recruiting class. Nor does it rise or fall based on a single season.
It's disappointing that Hand went elsewhere, but the football program will be just fine.
friends of mine at other schools who follow this and asked "what happened?" This has massive consequences because everyone who follows recruiting thought he was ours to lose. And when you suggest the media coverage and most of the media was expecting him to pick Michigan, and then he doesn't. People are wondering why. I generally agree with your points, but this one is going to sting, and there will be after effects. ..
I just punished myself and my insides by getting 6 spicy garlic and 6 mango habanero wings, boneless, from b-dubs for today's outcome. I deserved it.
Solid flavor selection.
This fan base just needs a hug at this point. Best of luck to him in T-Town..
Many of you have pointed out the disastrous educational deficiencies of schools other than Michigan, and so all of us need to follow these simple rules:
• Before entering any structure—high-rise, shopping mall, or private home—verify that the structural engineers were graduates of programs regarded as highly as Michigan's. Take particular pains to ensure that the engineers were not Alabama grads. If you cannot verify what programs the engineers graduated from, refuse to enter. The likelihood of immediate structural collapse is too great to risk, even if entering your own garage. You can't be too safe.
• Before boarding any aircraft—small civil aviation, commercial airline, or military—make sure that the aeronautical engineers were graduates of programs roughly the equal of Michigan's aerospace engineering program. Aircraft whose systems were designed by graduates of lesser programs are falling out of the air at an alarming rate all around us.
• Before boarding any marine vessel—cruise ship, fishing boat, commuter ferry, pontoon boat, or yes, even canoes—call the manufacturer to make sure that the naval architect/marine engineer graduated from a program roughly the equal of Michigan's program. If Alabama shows up on the list, refuse to board. If you've already boarded in haste, immediately jump overboard and swim to the nearest shore. The risk of capsizing is too great.
• If you should need emergency medical attention, it is imperative to refuse all treatment until you can verify which medical schools the emergency medical personnel attended. It doesn't matter if you've got an infected hangnail or have been in a horrific three-car accident and your left leg is hanging by a tendon and you're about to pass out from the loss of blood and pain, you should not accept any treatment by anybody who's graduated from medical schools that aren't regarded as highly as Michigan's. Accepting treatment from grads of inferior programs is a death warrant, and you should crawl back out to the ambulance and demand that they find a graduate of Michigan's medical school to treat you. Stanford, Duke, Harvard, or Johns Hopkins medical school grads are an acceptable substitute. Accept only the best.
is all the "well Saban will go to Texas anyhow" posts.
Like we have any clue about what Saban will do...
last coach was doing? Hoke can recruit. We already have a good recruiting class. You sir, have no class.