Darius Morris Trash Talking: Too High a Standard?
I know this has been discussed plenty already but I had to throw in my 2 cents because I just don't understand why the people who are getting on Darius for trash talking post game are holding him to this kind of standard (although it seems majority of the board is not against Morris for talking a little bit or a lot in this case)
1) We, as fans, do plenty of shit talking about our rivals, don't we? It's not like every comment about MSU is preceded with "we have great respect for their program and what they do as a team". No, we want to (EDIT) crush them and it gives us great joy to now have bragging rights for a year and talk shit about their whining. Darius Morris is the guy actually playing the game, he has earned the right to talk shit to Lucas, the senior "point guard" in the Big 10 who is trying to get inside his head and has been beating the shit out of us the last 3 years.
2) Why does trash talking never come up in regards to the football team? There are face to face confrontations about 20 times a game with people woofing at each other...who cares?
3) Is there some kind of correlation between trash talking and not working hard as a player, or not being able to win? I would say that Morris has shown himself to be a very hard worker in how much he has improved from year 1 to year 2, how he has led this team this year, and how badly he wants to win. Let these guys be themselves. Some will be quiet and humble, others will talk more shit, and until it crosses some kind of line where Beilein is upset with it or it costs us technical fouls on the court, I couldn't care less. Heck, even Tim Duncan was caught on camera the other night at the end of the first quarter yelling "GAME OVER!" after they took a big lead on the Heat. It's been a great season to this point and Morris has been our most valuable player, I think he deserved to talk a little bit and tell Lucas to get the fuck off his court.
"...this has been discussed plenty already..."
Oh yes.
"I think he deserved to talk a little bit and tell Lucas to get the fuck off his court."
Exactly. I wouldn't have made a new thread, though. What about Tom Izzo saying that Morris deserved to get a ball thrown in his face? Let's dissect that!
Shouldn't this have gone in one of the multiple game/trash-talking threads? I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with the OP, but starting another thread for the same subject matter seems redundant.
For what it's worth I was hesitant to start another thread but I was trying to take a little different perspective on it by just asking what gives us the right as fans to talk as much as we do and then to be mad at our own players for doing so, especially when this is just such a commonplace occurrence; I was just defending Morris. Apologize for any redundancy, it's not the first or last time it'll happen on here.
"its not the first or last time it'll happen on here"
I like how people defend themselves when they do something they know is dumb by saying its not the first or last time it'll happen here. Thinking like that is why on Scout you can read 40 threads about two topics.
The reason trash talking came to the forefront yesterday is that it reached a level where it carried over to the post-game "hand shake", which some might see as excessive. I think we may be making a bigger deal out of it than did the players.
In my mind, post-game smack talk is not equivalent to smack talk on the court. I don't care much that Darious told him to GTFO, but when the game's over the smack talk should end. But really this is much ado about nothing.
More importantly, it was nice to see the scoreboard as MSU was getting the **** out of Darius's building. I wish we had film of the OMG-shirtless MSU brah's with the "numbers since UofM's last win" on their chests from the Breslin game. Oh to see their faces yesterday afternoon - Scott Tenorman-licious!
I think wanting to murder them may be too extreme, but that's just me...
I've got no problem with Morris talking a little. Everyone does it, and it's usually done somewhat in good fun--though obviously not always. I get irritated when, for example, Michigan fans excuse their players' talk, but go insane when a MSU player does the same thing in reverse. It's hypocritical.
As for the football part--it's probably because you can't really see their mouths well enough to read lips. If Morris had a helmet on and walked by Lucas, no one would have seen his GTFO message, so no one would have said anything.
VICTORY says more than words. I would have preferred Morris not say anything to Lucas after the game. Lucas, Izzo, and Hollis all have had something to say after the game and it makes them look like sore losers. Let them smear themselves by talking after a loss. We have the ultimate prize.....a sweep. Nothing more needs to be said.
Talk shit prior to the game. Fight hard during the game. Revel in Victory after the game.
EDIT: Lest anyone accuse me of making a win over MSU the "ultimate prize", my comments are relative to these 2 teams and bragging rights for the following year. I am well aware that the ultimate prize is Conference, then National Championships
Sorry, talking trash is part of the game, it is. Expecting the players to be quiet is silly. I think what Morris did was hilarious, was awesome, and was something that good teams do.
that 'good teams' do; bad teams do it as well, even if they haven't anything to support their trash talking. Also, not everybody does it, it just seems that way sometimes. I agree it is part of the culture of sports, but I do feel what Darius said borders on the unacceptable; I think talking about your opponent's game, talking up your game is fine, but when you start cussing at them and telling them to 'get off my fucking court', that might be crossing the line. Whether we like it or not, the NCAA does set standards for sportsmanship and that comment wasn't very sporting. So what's going to happen next year at their venue? The 'Hater' Sparties are going to take this and run with it, build up the 'hate', and the 'Hater' UM'ers will respond in kind. There is this girl at work I was talking to about the game, I wouldn't even say I was trash talking, but she was upset! I don't think she can look at me without seeing UM! So I feel I'm on the outside looking in with her; I guess I don't want our society to turn into some collegiate version of "Colors".
I'm sure when spartans have talked shit the last 13 years, it has all been very courteous and plite.
"Please take your self from off of our court good sir"
Get real. Roe, Green, and Lucas are some of the biggest shit talkers we face. If they can't handle it and need to thow a ball like a pussy then they shouldn't talk all that shit in the first place.
Lucas downplayed the incident after the game.
"He was talking smack, I was talking smack," Lucas said. "It's part of basketball."
When asked if he threw the ball at Morris, Lucas said, "No, I didn't throw it at him, we had just gone to it a little bit. That's part of basketball. Things are going to happen like that. Guys are going to get into it, but we still shook hands after and everything is fine."
Man, everyone is going nuts...
The fact that Lucas and Morris are downplaying this lends me to believe that this isn't a big deal whatsoever. Maybe Coach Beilein should have a quick word with Darius, but honestly I couldn't care less. I'm just glad that Lucas got the **** off of Darius's court.
D Mo showed he has fire in his belly. I missed the game because my kid had a game but didn't Lucas have another tech for throwing an elbow? Doesn't that warrant a response? Kids+emotion come on this is a non-story only has legs because of Broadway Tommy mentioning in presser and Spartards looking for something to cling onto.
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<br>Way to go Darius.
I'm sorry.....any comments from the school who brought us the famous "hey FATBOY let's see what you got" comment gets no sympathy from me when it comes back the other way.
I thought it was Lucas who started it -- at least that was the first time I saw a player say anything that seemed worthy of "trash talking". But taking another turn, who gives a shit?
the difference between football and basketball is that the fans are much much closer to the court so fans (and kids) can hear everything they say. I'm okay with him talking a little smack but the expletives have no place especially near the sidelines.
What about the children? Guh.
I think this had as much to do with Lucas' elbows finding our players heads as anything.
Seriously, haven't you guys played sports before? This is pretty standard stuff. I doubt either team is concerned about that incident- at all. On to the next one.
To the OP, i like the point about how we as fans talk smack, but it's called out when players do it. Never really thought about it in that light.
Can we let this go yet? This is a non-story, but the media's not gonna let it go.
just an annoying, bored MGo posters.
Hey, I've got a great idea for Super-MGoBoard:
Block all posts that contain any form of "I know this has been discussed" and/or any form of "2 cents".
NEWSFLASH: BASKETBALL PLAYER TALKS TRASH FOR THREE SECONDS AT END OF HUGE RIVALRY GAME. WAS THERE AN OBSCENITY UTTERED? MORE AT 11.
Who. Fucking. Cares.
Players talking trash on the court/field seems to be a part of the game. A distasteful part of the game certainly, but a part nonetheless. Coaches talking trash seems to be the arena of only a few select schools. Can you imagine Beilein giving the qualified admonition towards one if his players if he had done what Lucas did? Can you imagine Schembechler, Paterno, Tressel, or even Rodriguez calling out an individual player for snarky remarks made in the press or making tepid threats about "pride something something fall"?
I guess no amount of winning ever completely cures people of their insecurities.
They've talked trash since 98 now it's our turn. Sucks when you lose and that's why they are whining. Typical little brother attitude though. I mean to act like they never talked trash to us ever? C'mon. If they are crying about this now just imagine how pissed they are going to be Oct 16!
I remember when Mark Dantonio talked trash about our football team. That was mature and enjoyable, too, wasn't it?
Morris shouldn't be talking trash. Period. I mean, there's a little bit of gamesmanship in every game, but there's a difference between making comments during plays/timeouts and talking trash after the game or before the game.
It's silly to say that Morris is hardworking so he should be allowed to do whatever he wants to do. College is about becoming more mature, and that's not necessarily happening here. Furthermore, Morris shows repeated bad body language and got himself benched by Beilein not too long ago for apparent attitude issues.
It shouldn't happen. I don't care if it does happen elsewhere - it's unsportsmanlike.
It is part of gamesmanship as you point. Part of the mental aspect of competition and defeating your opponent. Some guys use that style and feed off it, some don't. It doesn't say anything about their character, as much as it says about their way of playing the game.
You can't make Lebron James or Michael Jordan (two huge trash talkers) into Joe Dumars or Tim Duncan. You actually risk gutting the essence of the player when you toy with their core playing style. Morris has nothing to correct unless this behavior proves to diminish his abilities as a player. Right now, it appears to make him better.
Ehh... he probably shouldn't have done it but it isn't a big deal in the end. Izzo comes off looking the worst in this, in my opinion, by harping on it in the presser. It gives everyone an excuse to dredge up the videos of his teams being less than classy in the past.
I remember when Mark Dantonio talked trash about our football team. That was mature and enjoyable, too, wasn't it?
C'mon, man... you know that there is a HUGE difference between a player talking trash (in person) and coach talking trash (in the media). Comparing 18- to 21-year-old kids playing at a high level of emotion with a 40- to 50-year-old coach talking crap in the media is ridiculous. If Beilein had told Izzo to get the fuck off his court, then I would agree that it was wrong.*
These two teams have been jawing back and forth for a long time, and St. Lucas has been in the middle of a lot of it. See, e.g., the 0:05 mark of this here video:
*Okay, I would laugh my ass off. But objectively speaking, it would be wrong.
Tom Izzo doesn't seem to have any problem with Lucas running his mouth off THERE....
There is definitely a huge difference between a player talking trash and a coach talking trash, but the point remains:
It shouldn't be done.
"Dantonio hurt our feelings so we shouldn't defend Morris when he does it". Except Morris a a player. A teenager. And Dantonio is a grown man who's paid to represent his University (just ask Okie State's coach). What Dantonio says, Izzo says, Mason says is an embarrassment to their University, because they're acting like, well, kids. In public press conferences. Not on the court. They should know better. If Beilein, Hoke, Rich, or Lloyd said something like they have, I'd be embarrassed. Lloyd had his "what a stupid question" comment (Which was at least accurate..it was a really stupid question), and what did he do over that? Apologized the next day on his coach's show, and made light of it with the same guy at the bowl game. I doubt you're going to see Dantonio or Izzo backtracking over their comments.
Should college players know better? Probably. But do they sometimes slip, like Hart, or Harbaugh, or Walter Smith? Sure. Then you just hope they back it up. I didn't mind when David Boston or someone else said something stupid. I just wanted to really beat them for it. If it had been Cooper or the like, it would have been a different story. How you can equate the guy who is supposed to set an example for his young men with the young men who need an example set for them is weaksauce.
The players should also never swear because a kid somewhere might hear, and they should not be allowed to have any potentially offensive tattoos, and they should all hug and kiss after the game.
Sportsmanship is great to a certain point, but if there's any emotion involved, guess what, some trash talking is going to be involved as well, and I say all the better. If anyone thinks Lucas wasn't trash talking after he rained a couple 3s (especially as he had that big ass grin on his face), they're out of their mind. Everyone does it, and to hold our guys to some higher standard is ridiculous, and to think teams don't consistently trash talk is naive. I think it makes the game better personally.
I can not believe how much talk this is getting, the only reason is because Morris made it blatantly obvious. I sat courtside once at a Celtics/Nuggets game, and the things those guys said was far worse than "get off my fucking court." Kenyon Martin especially, dear god the things that guy said.
GET OFF MY LAWN
... do kids slip, yes. Should we just dismiss it as boys being boys? No.
A lot of people on this board would be served well by reading one of many of John Wooden's books on leadership.
You're right. Kalin Lucas made a mistake by throwing the ball at Darius after the game, upset that his team lost again. I for one am big enough to foregive him. I'll refrain from using it as just another example of the poor sportsmanship from East Lansing. I recommend that others on this board also extend this courtesy to the couch burners to the north.
A lot of people on this board would be served well by reading one of many of John Wooden's books on leadership.
Do any of his books discuss his UCLA program's ridiculous cheating?
Pretend you can't see all the cheating going on, then it's not your fault.
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<br>If he had wrote a book on THAT I'd have read it, because that's a neat trick to get away with it completely.
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<br>But it's a good point...it's a harkening back to a yesteryear of sportsmanship and clean living that never existed. Yost talked smack.
Grown man talking shit =/= kid who's not yet of drinking age talking shit.
Grown man talking shit == grown man who's not yet of drinking age talking shit.
If you still think college kids are grown men. There's a lot of growing left to be done. And they're not getting paid millions of dollars to set an example.
NBA players probably talk more trash than anyone and they're much older and more "mature" than Darius. to think that the maturity of someone on the court mirrors their maturity off of it is asinine.
This is such a coach comment. This stuff happens in the NBA and college every week. When kids don't show enough emotion and play with heart we find fault in it and when they say something that gets national attention we say its to much. Did he physically hurt Lucas or do something that is going to effect him beyond that day? No, hes not going to win a sportsmanship award now but who cares. How much shit do we talk to MSU and OSU fans when we beat their team. Such a double standard that he should be held to a higher standard for some reason.
I don't talk shit to MSU and OSU fans. If you do, that's your issue.
You don't play in the games either, Magnus.
I don't talk shit. Period. Whether it's a competitive situation or as a fan, it's not something I do. There's no need.
Believe it or not, there are athletes and competitors out there who don't feel the need to talk shit.
Oh cry me fucking river magnus. Players should never talk trash? You've got to be kidding me, so professional athletes should never talk trash either by the way you make it sound, since they are older and more mature. Trash talking is part of every sport, I loved talking shit when I played football and basketball in high school. If your talking gets the other player mad or upset then it shows your in his head and throws off his game. He'll be thinking about how pissed he is at you instead of doing what he's suppose to be doing. You sound like an ultra douche, not surprising coming from you.
Yes, when I suggest that players shouldn't talk trash, that automatically means I'm a douche.
That makes total sense.