Darius Morris Trash Talking: Too High a Standard?
I know this has been discussed plenty already but I had to throw in my 2 cents because I just don't understand why the people who are getting on Darius for trash talking post game are holding him to this kind of standard (although it seems majority of the board is not against Morris for talking a little bit or a lot in this case)
1) We, as fans, do plenty of shit talking about our rivals, don't we? It's not like every comment about MSU is preceded with "we have great respect for their program and what they do as a team". No, we want to (EDIT) crush them and it gives us great joy to now have bragging rights for a year and talk shit about their whining. Darius Morris is the guy actually playing the game, he has earned the right to talk shit to Lucas, the senior "point guard" in the Big 10 who is trying to get inside his head and has been beating the shit out of us the last 3 years.
2) Why does trash talking never come up in regards to the football team? There are face to face confrontations about 20 times a game with people woofing at each other...who cares?
3) Is there some kind of correlation between trash talking and not working hard as a player, or not being able to win? I would say that Morris has shown himself to be a very hard worker in how much he has improved from year 1 to year 2, how he has led this team this year, and how badly he wants to win. Let these guys be themselves. Some will be quiet and humble, others will talk more shit, and until it crosses some kind of line where Beilein is upset with it or it costs us technical fouls on the court, I couldn't care less. Heck, even Tim Duncan was caught on camera the other night at the end of the first quarter yelling "GAME OVER!" after they took a big lead on the Heat. It's been a great season to this point and Morris has been our most valuable player, I think he deserved to talk a little bit and tell Lucas to get the fuck off his court.
you're a douche moreso for your condescending, high-horse, perennially negative attitude than for your stance on this issue.
And, I'm sorry, trying to equate Morris' heat of battle comments with those of a coach who has had more life experience, the time and opportunity to gain control of his emotions, and just plain should know better, utterly and completely reeks of fail.
Perennially negative? Like when I was supporting Carr when everyone wanted to see him hang? Like when I was giving praise and support to Brandon Minor for being the best runner on the team? Like when I was supporting Morgan Trent when everyone wanted to see him hang? You seem to see only what you want to see.
And oh yeah, I didn't realize that it's okay for a 19-year-old to do something but not a 50-something-year-old. I have stated above that a coach should be held to a higher standard, but just because Morris is a sophomore in college doesn't mean it's okay.
But hey, name calling on the internet is cool. Good for you.
We bought T shirts with that on it. That was trash talk. After Lucas dropped those Mfers last year on our court, I like that we had guys who's said I'm sick of this crap. It's a rivalry the passion is going to lead to this type of stuff. It's a good thing, it's swagger.
Personally, I didn't like Hart's trash talk, either. The little brother comment was too much, and it bit us in the ass a year later.
The comment didn't as much as losing did.
Mike Hart said "little brother" in 2007, and we lost in 2008. By that logic, the Eliot Spitzer scandal and the stock market crash really bit us in the ass in that game.
I'd say the loss had more to do with, you know, SheriThreetDamnit and the inability to field a cognizable defense. That is, unless you think that State really hadn't been getting 'up' for the MIchigan game before that, and Mike Hart really turned it into a rivalry by injecting bad blood into an otherwise harmonious athletic competition.
(FWIW, I agree about Hart shit-talking. But it was part of what made Mike Hart Mike Hart, for better of for worse)
Caulcrick has gotten a free pass for his Friday pre-game 2007 comments about Michigan players being arrogant and thinking that they are big brothers. Not to mention screaming when up 10 points in 2007 "Remember this moment, remember the moment that Michigan State beat you" -- 2 TDs later and Caulcrick was literally crying in the locker room, talking about how UofM can't win with class....too bad he helped plant a flag against Notre Dame.
I'm not talking about the loss biting us in the ass on the field. I'm talking about public perception. When you talk shit and the very next time you play, you suck ass...well...the shit you talked just comes right back in your face.
I think we took a public perception hit because we, in your words, "sucked ass," not because of Mike Hart's comments (who wasn't even on the team anymore when we "sucked ass").
When we stop "sucking ass" public perception will follow suit no matter what anybody says in a rivalry context.
If you're not sucking ass.
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<br>Frankly, I don't think if Mike Hart hadn't said anything, MSU was going to be gracious when they won. Heck, this weekend showed they're not gracious when they LOSE. Just keep winning. The talk doesn't matter.
I didn't like Hart's trash talk either.
However, you could argue that Hart's trash talk was just karma for Caulcrick making his ridiculous trash talk comments Friday before and during the 2007 game inciting Hart's comment.
It goes both ways and it isn't a big deal for kids to trash talk a litte, even if I don't like it.
That said, there is a difference between a kid trash talking and a grown adult that is representing a school like Dantonio.
Starting that season Dantonio was talking all sorts of shit. From his moment of silence, to the crap MSU was talking on the sidelines during the game when they were leading. Hart was smart; the best time to talk smack is AFTER you win, not before.
Trash talking has been part of this game/rivalry at least since Scott Skiles and Antoine Joubert, and probably longer than that. Skiles and Joubert were just the first to get publicity for it. When it was Skiles getting the better of it, Sparty didn't whine, bitch, or moan about "sportsmanship." They only whine when they are the recipients of what they normally give.
And for anyone wanting to link trash talking to any particular segment of society or culture: don't kid yourself. Amateur golfers in their morning foursomes and league bowlers have talked trash for years. They usually keep it lighter and a lot funnier, but it is still trash talking. Even little league baseball players still say "hey, batter batter" while trying to distract the hitter. And the things we used to say growing up in the 60's in our neighborhood football, tackle basketball, and baseball games make "get the fuck off my court" sound pretty tame.
So, it all comes back to being sore losers. MSU fans and players seem to feel, individually and collectively, that they can do and say whatever they want, but if someone does it to them, it is suddenly UNACCEPTABLE.
When Skiles got into Joubert's head, I thought it was funny and I thought Joubert was mentally weak, Now, over twenty years later, I think Morris is funny and Lucas is mentally weak.
Sauce for the goose, and all that....
Jordan and Bird were some of the worst trash talkers in the history of the league and I never remember that part of their game being criticized.
Some of these people need to pull the stick out of their ass and just enjoy this team instead of looking for every little thing to be critical of.
Well, there's no higher standard to hold yourself to than that of Michael Jordan. What a class act he is...
Someone (not a Sparty fan) who says he saw a replay of the scrap between D Morris and Lucas told me that after Lucas mouthed back, Morris took a swing at him. I missed the entire exchange after the game was over, but I haven't heard (or read) anyone else say that DM tried to hit Lucas. Can anyone verify whether this is true? Thanks.
This video right here is from a distance aways, but it makes this whole thing look like a non-issue.
No swings can be seen from this video angle...just a confrontation and a thrown ball.
...exactly what he said, but if his body language were different and if he didn't step to Lucas like he wanted a confrontation, he wouldn't have had a ball shoved in his face and no one would have even heard this ever happened.
Body language and stepping to someone will get the emotions riled regardless of what is said.
We're blowing this completely out of proportion. Here is the brawl at the end of the game:
And here is the unbridled massacre in the handshake lines:
Hey, we're Michigan fans. We have a crazy talent for finding fault with victories.
Oh no....... we're LSU....
is the middle-aged guy in that video a few rows up. He starts off in the victory "V" pose, with fists of power(!). But what is that he does next? with the shake-it-all-about hands? Is this the first M fan to, in fact, do the Hokey-Pokey? I'm in!!
I didnt have any problems with what Morris did or allegedly said.
Its about time the basketball program had a little swagger.
You earn the right to talk when you've won the undisputed State Championship
I have no problem with the trask talk. None. It's basketball. It's a part of the game. Lucas was talking shit to the press before the game. Morris wants to respond to the guy? Good. "Get the fuck off my court"? Good. He earned the right to talk trash.
Perhaps more importantly, the MSU coaches have opened this door. While Izzo's "promise" isn't exactly shocking language, it was the first shot. Of course, Dantonio was much more public and shit-talking in ripping Michigan (and opening the entire Little Brother back-and-forth). The problem to me is only with the MSU coaches who talk trash to kids and then act like they are mortally offended to learn that a kid talks shit back.
Get the fuck off my court!
I smell a t-shirt!
... you start using the "MSU did it first" argument, you've already lost. We should NEVER, EVER, perceive their behavior as setting a precedent for ours.
How lowly we must thing of ourselves, if we accept this argument.
How does one "thing" of oneself? I've never been able to thing myself before.
LIke I said...I don't have a problem with the players talking shit to each other. I do, however, have a problem with MSU coaches (and administrators) talking shit about Michigan (and/or Michigan's players) and then acting offended when that player dares to return fire. Our coaches are starting this shit, but our players are doing a nice job standing up for themselves. You (Kalin Lucas) want to publicly state that you can't ever imagine losing to Michigan? Well, Kalin, "Get the fuck off my court!"
It shouldn't have happened but it's being blown way out of proportion. Izzo should not have added fuel to the fire with his comments afterward...he should have stayed above it. Fact is MSU, particularly Lucas and Izzo, are coming off as sore losers...this obviously isn't an outcome they ever envisioned. We've seen plenty of trash talk and gloating out of them over the years.
For anyone offended by trash talk during a game, I'm just curious:
When you play a pickup game against your friend, do you never talk any smack? Heck, how about when you're playing a video game against him?
What a lot of people don't understand is that these guys often know each other very well, from their time at high school camps and AAU, and in fact, they're often good friends off the court. When you go up against someone you know, that gives you even more fuel for the fire. 99% of the time, these guys have no issue with it after the game.
Izzo's whole Capt. Renault act (I'm shocked! Shocked to find that trash talking is going on in here!) is probably more an attempt to change the subject away from the loss (and especially, the fact that he promised a victory and didn't deliver).
He says he's going to talk to Lucas about his actions then, in the next breath, says Morris may have deserved it.
He's fine when his team is running up the score by 51, but he can't stand it when Morris beats 3 guys still actively defending him to make it a three score game?
Tom Izzo: gracious in victory, fugly in defeat.
Tell me about the circles, and why I shouldn't disturb them please.
No, I don't. It's not in my repertoire. Actions speak louder than words.
The only person who's making this an issue is Izzo. Even Kalin shrugged it off. Izzo, like Dantonio, like the school, fans flames because both he and Sparty have a profound inferiority complex re Michigan. You'd think they would be past that by now, given MSU on-field successes in recent years. But no. Deep down, they know that the world doesn't really give a shit about MSU's teams; that it's only a matter of time before Michigan returns Sparty to its also-ran status; and that MSU is a second-rate university (unless you major in dentistry, hotels, or sofa-burning). Amid all the recent losses, did you ever see an M coach whine about trash-talking or "disrespect"? Big brothers don't whine when they lose. Little brothers do.
Little Giant Bitches.
comments over the years. I mean, it's cool if fellow Michigan fans want to say it. I just choose not to, at least, not out loud.
Howeva, "Big brothers don't whine when they lose. Little brothers do." is without question the most succinct and awesome way have seen/heard* this rivalry described in quite some time. Strong fucking work, +1 to you.
*In middle school, after the "No.1 vs No one" debacle, one of my buddies drew a picture of a Sparty slicing at a wolverine. Sparty had the biggest smile on his face, but didn't realize that the wolverine's paw had crept behind his head and was about to crush him. The Sparty's quote was "HAHA, I am now superior in football." The wolverine's response was "You will never truly understand what it means to be superior."
Lucas and Green talk shit all day long. That's what they do. Now that they have lost, they can't take the trash talk that they received... Their not used to it. So stay classy Darius give em what they want.
I believe my mgosignature shows where I stand here.
Izzo is the baby here, and no one else.
Darius did nothing wrong. I expect trash talking in a rivalry like this, and I'm sure Darius took it for the games last year and was returning the favor. He also made some sweet moves to make that lay-up happen, so I'd say he earned it. Its also not like we were up by 10+, either.
Lucas also did nothing wrong. I'm sure he was feeling the pressure of how poorly this year has gone, and he has every reason to be upset. Again, I expect stuff like that in this rivalry.
Izzo is the one who's doing it wrong. No coach should whine to the media like that, especially when the players in question play it down. He's shown himself to be just like Dantonio a few years ago. "Little Brother" didn't stick because Mike Hart said it, it stuck because Dantonio reacted to it unbecoming of his position, just like Izzo did yesterday. I don't feel bad in the least. Izzo has his ups and downs with his conduct, but he's done plenty to us over the years such that he has zero right to be mad about a layup with 3 seconds left when the lead is still single-digits before and after. He's a baby, and I hope this bothers him all off-season.
It deserves a place at the end of the highlight reel as the summation of the season sweep, as far as I am concerned. Classic stuff.
What's great about this is that Lucas will probably never be able to avenge this oh-so-horrific shit-talking as he goes off to be a mediocre professional player and (likely) human being.
On the last part I actually do hope I'm wrong (really I do) but, you know...I can only go by what I see.
That was a great taunting opportunity and I'm glad Morris didn't let it go to waste.
The media got this all wrong.
He was talking to someone from MSU.
That means he was talking to trash, not "talking trash."
Michigan talking shit and backing it up? COUNT ME IN.
Our program has taken too many hits and our fans try to seem above it all too much:
Talk some SHIT; GET SOME SWAGGUH. Have some fucking BALLZ once in awhile.