He did make the decision Trey did. Morris left after his soph year and most likely so will Trey
Tennessee is not recruiting well just because they got 18 dudes
He did make the decision Trey did. Morris left after his soph year and most likely so will Trey
But unlike Trey, Darius did not have a productive freshman year at Michigan. 4.4 ppg and 18% 3 point shooting percentage (Darius' frosh stats) will not get you a lot of looks at the NBA level.
Like Naked Bootleg said, Darius didn't have a productive Frosh season, and I think the OP meant sticking around after your breakout year, not taking a chance as mayber being a late-1st rounder
Exactly. Darius blossomed during his sophomore year. It's like he underwent a metamorphosis, somewhat akin to an insect changing from larval to pupal to adult form between his freshman and sophomore seasons.
Bottom line: Darius Morris, overall, is not as talented as Trey Burke.
They play the game very differently, but by NBA standards, Burke is a much better player. Defensively, because he is bigger, you might give the edge to Darius, but offensively, I don't know any facet of the game that I wouldn't rate Burke as the better player.
I love Trey but I still think Darius was a better passer. Not by much though
It's a horrible coaching change for him personally. Dantoni wants his PG to be able to shoot 3's and that is not what D Mo does.
So you're saying the Lakers are going to draft Trey Burke in the next draft?
It's not like other coaches dislike point guards that can shoot, especially win how much pick and roll basketball is being played. More that dantonios system moreso necessitates that dmo be a better shooter, which is unfortunate bc that was his greatest weakness and seems to be still .
Morris shoots 40% on his 3pt attempts, which amongst PGs in the NBA is actually 12th best. His problem is his 2pt shots where he's shooting a godawful 30.4% which is tied for 79th amongst PGs. And making things worse, his assist-turnover ratio isn't that good either at 1.75 (tied for 61st for PGs). An unproductive PG that can't shoot is a bad combo and it doesn't matter who your coach is, that'll earn you some time on the pine and maybe over in Europe if he gets cut.
It's weird that he's so bad at 2-pt FGs now. In college he was over 50% inside the arc. I know there obviously are a lot more shotblockers at this level, but still, I wouldn't have guessed him to be at 30% there.
His time in LA is just about up, but I think he'll get scooped out somewhere else. LA is a sinking ship. Nash is old and will play for a few years, Kobe has a few more years left. Dantoni and all the other players they keep bringing in are just bandages to cover up how flawed their roster is. After Kobe retires, it is going to be a long rebuild in LA.
But you completely are wrong about Darius wishing he made the same decision Trey did, because as gordie bell said, Trey will make the same decision that Darius did.
There's a lot of talk about the Lakers not giving long-term contracts to guys like Gasol because they're prepping for a LeBron bidding in 2 years (or whenever his Miami contract is up)
Its basically a certainty that Maimi will have to brake up their big 3 after next season. They won't be able to pay the luxury tax when their tax rate increases. At that point I think between salaries and the tax they'd be spending 140 million on players. They don't have the money to do that and I'm sure Lebron is aware of that. If I were betting I'd say Lebron is a Laker by 2015.
I think the decision is not about what year you leave but about whether you stay or go when you're getting the advice that you'll be drafted most likely in the second round and have a good chance to improve to the first round if you stay.
Trey Burke will not make the same decision Darius Morris did, because their situations will never be equal. Darius was a borderline late first early second round pick by even the most optimistic projections. Burke started out the year ranked in the 20'a by many, but if he keeps playing the way he is, he could be a lottery pick by the end of the season.
Burke is a sure first-rounder. Morris went in the middle third of the second round at #41. There is a huge difference in compensation, and first round picks fare better in personnel decisions due to the larger investment the teams have made in them.
Trey Burke will get a nice, fat contract with a team that is in need of his services and hoping to scratch its way up the food chain. Darius Morris was almost an afterthought in LA. Those are not even close to being the same situation.
Trey Burke already chose not to make the decision Darius Morris made when in a comparable position. -EDIT- not meant as a reply to Tater
D-Mo's stock was not going to rise any furtther than he had when he left. That is why I think he made the right decision. He was going to be the same thing after last year, a tall point with limited scoring capacity and nice court vision, that is him for better or worse. I don't think he is the type of player that was going to develop any more than he did in college. Hardaway's breakout freshman year did nice things for Morris' stats and Michigan got some good pub from their good showing against Duke. And Morris was very effective in the second half of the Duke game. Morris was not projected to some all time great pro prospect when he was coming in, going where he went in the draft was more than expected. Sometimes making the right move entering the draft is not about longevity but about that first contract and knowing when you have caught lightning in a bottle.
And his stock has risen by coming back and playing well. He was borderline first rounder too, and now he's probably a solid 1st rounder, with upside still.
not think that people thought that about Burke last year at all. I did not expect much from him coming in, but I could tell half way through the season that he was an NBA player and a good one. I never thought that about Morris, I thought that after his second year that he could grab a spot on an NBA roster, get a few nice checks and then get some slightly less nice checks overseas. I thought returning for another year could have had three possible results, 1)going exactly the same place in the draft one year later (best possible result), 2) injury, 3) it becomming painfully obvious that he cannot shoot and really can only go one direction with the ball (and possibly not being drafted at all). I think going when he went was the only decision. With Burke the sky is the limit, with Morris, he had already exceeded his limit and he damn well knew it.
after his second season and are now pretending you weren't. There's too little equivalency in their cases anyway, and Darius is on record as saying he is glad he did what he did.
Why second-guess the guy's life decisions? Unproductive. He has now made some large bills doing what he wanted to do instead of studying and doing what he wanted to do, and can come back and finish school or get a college degree when and if he wants.
If he hasn't improved enough with NBA coaching/resources, then there's definitely no guarantee he would have made that improvement with another year at UM, I don't think his draft decision really is important here
At this point, he is in the NBA. Regardless of when he made the decision to leave, if he is having trouble finding a role and sticking with his team, it doesn't really matter much when or how he got there. Might have been drafted a bit higher with one more year under his belt, might have gotten some more money upfront, etc
But in the end of the day, once there he's got to make plays to stay on the team.
I'm hoping that this is just a bad fit for him and he gets picked up by someone else who can better utilized his talents.
LA was probably the best landing spot for him in the NBA. Its home, so its comfortable, and its on a team with scorers and in desparate need of a PG. Given all of that, he hasn't been able to deliver. If/when he gets cut/traded by the Lakers, I don't think he's got a long NBA shelf life. Not a lot of reasons for another team to take a flier on him.
catch, he has to become a decent shooter. He needs to shoot the ball 1,000 times per day, change mechanics, find God, something. I have watched him play a couple of times last year and he still throws it like a point guard for the Lady Vols (not that there is anything wrong with that). He will not have success in the league as a PG if he cannot make an open three at at least a 35-37% clip, regardless of size.
This assertion that Darius would develop better in the NBA as a likely bench player than with another year of college as THE MAN strikes me as questionable at best. I say this because that is frequently not practiced in other professional sports. Take european soccer: clubs routinely buy promising talent and then loan them out to smaller clubs so they can get first team minutes. They value game experience over practicing with the best players but only seeing spot minutes, and the latter is what Darius was signing up for.
Maybe this is not the greatest comparison, because these on loan soccer players are still practicing all day instead of worrying about classes, but there is apparently something to be said for seeing significant playing time for development.
Seeing playing time is good, but in theory the best coaches are in the nba, you practice all day for the entire year. The danger of stting on the bench is getting cut which is why guys should stay in college. Its better to be able to improve your game without having to worry about keeping your job but if you have a contract it is better for development to be in the nba. The development league does exist, its not like the lakers have to keep him on the bench.
I disagree on the best coaches being in the NBA. I think you have the best managers of egos in the NBA, but the guys that are best at teaching and getting the most out of their players are in college. College coaches have to develop their talent a whole lot more than NBA coaches do. Once players get to the NBA, they are by and large a mostly finished product. Its not a place to learn on the job.
To your main point, it's not looking very promising right now. Morris was always the type that needs the ball in his hands to be effective, he either can't handle doing that at an NBA level or isn't given the chance on a team with Kobe and other ball dominators
I don't think this is his last chance in the NBA though
This pick didn't make sense in 2011. And it doesn't make sense now.
Although Morris to Howard would be deadly on the pick and roll.
The Lakers have been in dire need of a PG for years.
Because Morris was best with the ball in his hands and the offense going through him.
Kobe is on this team.
Not that I think it will matter one bit to the next kid making the decision but the Burke V Morris decision to stay or leave provides a great blueprint on what to do and not to do. Both enjoyed a breakout season (Burke as a Freshman, Morris as a Sophomore) which moved them onto the NBA draft radar. Neither was considered much of a prospect by anyone nationally beforehand. Both were projected to go deep first round at best or early to mid second round by the draftnicks. Morris left and Burke stayed.
Now - Burke stayed the extra year has shot up the boards even higher and is being talked about as a probable lottery pick and perhaps even one of the first guards selected. As such he will get guarenteed money and with it guarenteed playing time. Morris, on the other hand, came out, was drafted mid-second round and got neither guarenteed money nor any obligation to playing time to justify his high draft selection.
The problem is that many of these kids dont look at what's happened before them because everyone is screaming in their ear that they are the greatest thing ever and need to take the money now. It's rare nowdays for someone like Burke to stay but I think in the end he will be handsomely rewarded for his decision. Hopefully the next time somebody wearing maize n blue has to make that call (GRIII perhaps) he will look at the two point guards and realize that one more year of playing time can pay huge dividends long term.
It's very possible that if Morris stayed, he develops more, the UM team has even more success than they did, he gets drafted in a better situation and everyone is happy
Other possibilities if he comes back-
- a very similar Morris comes back but then this Burke guy starts shining, and the question becomes "He might not be the best PG on his own team, why am I taking Morris in the 1st round?"
-A similar Morris does essentially the same and he gets drafted later/undrafted only because he's older (and therefore less of the potential that GMs love)
- He gets injured, everyone has a sad face
- Some of his weaknesses get more exposed and his stock falls
I'm not saying he made the perfect decision, I'm saying either decision (NBA draft or coming back) had advantages and risks, he took one. He didn't make a bad decision, he made a very defensible one that gave him his dream. So far, it hasn't worked out for him...but just because things MAY have been better otherwise, that doesn't make him wrong, evil, stupid or anything else (I know you aren't making all of those arguments, but they do get made)
To earn double the low rate he was making to make that extra year without pay moot, and your whole point moot. You can't say he lost nothing when you just said it was 50-50 on him improving his draft stock vs. not. If it's "dubious" to say he would have, it's just as dubious to say he wouldn't have.
And all this training in the NBA...NBA coaches aren't concerned with taking time to make their players better. They're on a short schedule and an even shorter leash and they're concerned with getting a team prepared to win the next game. Players get better in the NBA on their own, mostly. Can that be done more easily with all that free time to practice? Yeah. (If one assumes NBA guys are really spending all their free time working on their game. Uh huh.) Is it better than less practice time but actual instruction, and game experience? Maybe, maybe not.
Michigan doesn't play again till Saturday. Then not again till next Thursday. You think they're spending Sun-Weds getting ready for Eastern? Or getting better? In the NBA you'll have 3 games in 4 nights. They hardly have time to get ready for the next team, no more making sure a 2nd rounder is any good.
Where do I get that from? Profesional coaches who don't have the time, interest, or worry about a second round pick they may not even of had a say in drafting developing. If that was the case Larry Brown would have played Darko. And the rate they fire coaches in the NBA doesn't allow them to be concerned with anything else. If you think otherwise, you're just fooling yourself.
You said Burke should leave early too because his stock couldn't go up, and you were wrong there too.
Not only financially, but Morris was handed more opportunity than some 1st rounders. If he can't cut it in the league in the next few years I doubt one more year in college would have helped him much.
Because just like he signed more than the projection for a 2nd rounder, so did everyone else last year sign for more than the minimum projection.
Fab Melo at 22 (late first pick) made $1,255k and $1,311k. And he has an option for more years, and much more likelihood to stick in the league and make those years because teams can't just throw away first round picks. And it's guaranteed from the start, so he gets the money. He was rolling the dice that he'd even get a second year. Or for that matter, a first.
Get up to 15 and John Henson made $1,823k and $1,905k, and he lost a one million point five dollars over two years. (And it the amount increases with every extra year he plays). So not hardly having to get up to 8. You chose one stat for one, and another for the other, so your "facts" are wrong. And so is your conclusion.
(from your own link-
But they're not relevant when they show you're wrong. Got it.
I don't think this is his last shot in the league. Morris looked pretty good for a while when he was getting solid PG minutes over Duhon, and there's a reason he was the guy D'Antoni went with initially over Duhon. He has promise.
He's not a great fit for the system in LA (and apparently the Lakers front office only wants guys over 32). But some team will pick him up to be a relativelt cheap back-up PG for a while as he continues to mature. If he's not better in a couple years, you'll be right, but he'll get until then.
that Darius is not doing himself any favors out there on the court. Blame Kobe's ball-hogging all you like, but that's not the problem with Darius. The problem with Darius is that he tries to do too much with the ball. His play is best described as being "aggressively out of control" at times. There are moments when he runs the offense efficiently, and takes decent shots, but IMO they have been few and far between. And he's a bit of a liability on the defensive end, but that's been covered up by the fact that the Lakers as a whole are an awful defensive team.
He's far too inconsistent on both ends of the floor at this stage of the game, when some stability is seriously needed at the point guard position; hence, Duhon's starting and other possessions where Kobe is the guy bringing the ball up court. It also helps, of course, that Duhon is familiar with D'Antoni's offensive system and can direct guys to their proper positions in the set.
Darius seems to be willing to learn and improve as a player (he has praised Kobe and others on the team for being great teachers), and he apparently gets high marks from teammates for that reason, but the reality is that it's tough to learn on the fly while playing for a franchise with astronomically high expectations of not just winning, but winning RIGHT NOW.
I think it's only a matter of time before he's traded. I don't think that he should be, since he gives the Lakers some athleticism that they are sorely lacking. The only way it's justified is if the Lakers get some better athleticism/shooting/decent defense in return.
But Darius is the Lakers best on ball defender by far. Players are going to score regardless in the NBA but its about how comfortable you allow them to be as they score.
Duhon, Blake, and Nash are the defensive equivalent to a fold up chair. Darius issue will always be that his Jumper is inconsistent. Thats all Dantoni wants is guys that can shoot from long range.
Why else would they seek out Eddie House of all people? Eddie cant dribble the ball between his legs let alone make plays from the PG position.
Agree with a lot of your points, though I am not sure where a mutually beneficial trade happens. Trades don't happen in a vacuum and even L.A. needs to give up something to get something and frankly we don't have a lot to offer that any non-insane GM would want. If anyone could get something done, it's Kupchak but he's used up his share of magic.
He's also not been stellar when it comes to discovering 2nd-unit talent. Not gonna ding him too hard for that, because his success at getting complementary 1st-unit guys (which is much more important) doesn't leave him much else to work with, salary-wise.
(that was @mrfrieze)
Also: is Mike Dantoni's time in LA and in the NBA at an end?
Unfortunately for the Lakers and D'antoni, I thought it was a poor hire because they don't really have the personnel for his system. He's a pretty good coach and they have very good players, but that doesn't always add up to success.
with Phil Jackson sitting there, waiting in the wings, watching.
As another suffering Laker fan (can't say long-suffering, because... really, now, that's just being a spoiled brat) - yeah, Darius has not done himself well over the last several games. He's been ok at using his size to body up on his man but he's definitely regressed from a promising stretch of games earlier in the season and is still having issues playing out of control, albeit less so than last season. His D is passable but his shooting is spotty - granted, he's in good (bad) company there. Still... It's gotten to the point where the corpse of Chris Duhon has taken over the starting role and I can't even disagree with that. We're f'd until Nash gets back. What's *really* been disturbing to see is that Morris is consistently unable to finish at the rim, and that was something he was consistently good at in college. His NBA career is in the danger zone if he can't get it going under (hopefully) Nash's tutelage later this season.
That said, as far as the rumors about Eddie House and co. being brought in.... I'll believe it when I see it. I keep telling people this, but often in the NBA, fantastical trade rumors are floated around like trial balloons by agents as a way to passive-aggressively drum up interest in their clients or engage in posturing with a GM. Said rumors very often involve the Lakers because they are - deservedly or not - a sexy headline-gathering team. However, GM Mitch Kupchak has consistently kept his dealings on the down-low - almost every major deal he's made in the last 5-7 years has come out of the blue. Basically, whenever I hear a trade rumor involving L.A., I disregard it as white noise until I hear multiple sources confirming it and it actually happens within a day or so.
Also - chew on this, Mayans:
In 2012 I follow two basketball teams who often wear yellow. Team A struggles to beat bad teams, has barely passable talent at several key positions and is dispirited and fundamentally weak on basic game principles. Team B plays beautiful, coordinated ball that is an absolute joy to watch and is a perennial contender within a stacked conference.
If you'd told me 12 years ago that Team A was the Lakers and Team B was Michigan, I would've laughed in your face. =p
Darius would've been better off not getting picked up in the NBA, so he could go to Europe and get PT against quality competition, way better than the D-League. If the Lakers release him this season, he would be wise to seek out that option. After a couple years in Europe, he can come back here as a seasoned pro player with skills, and hopefully a jump shot, that teams will covet.
I ask not to troll but in all seriousness (don't follow the NBA as much as I used to). Are there any recent examples of young NBA players getting released, going to Europe and developing their game, and getting picked up again by an NBA team?
Not really.. not if they're American at least. Some international players manage to do that because later on they get to play in FIBA and Olympics and put up a good showing. Carlos Arroyo comes to mind.
I don't think staying an extra year would have saved Morris at all. He wouldn't be any more successful a pro, in my opinion, if he had stayed. He'd have his degree, but he can still do that, and hopefully he does.
One thing that was screaming out to me here was that no one is looking at the extenuating circumstances. IMHO one of the big reasons why Morris jumped when he did was the weak draft class, as many people were (correctly) expecting a lock-out. He left because he thought that it was his best opportunity for a high draft position. Burke doesn't have to deal with any of this stuff...so his decisions are a lot more conventional.
The rightness of Morris's decision to leave when he did is an interesting debate, and folks have made good points above on both sides. But to me the more interesting thing is how well it's worked out for Michigan. Not having Morris back might have been initially difficult last year -- but there's no doubt Burke is the better all around player, and this year's team is much better positioned having Burke with a year of starting experience already, than it would be in the alternative scenario (where he's a new starter after serving as Morris's understudy last year). So while I always like guys to stay in school, I guess I'm thankful Darius left when he did.
He wouldn't be in a better situation right now had he stayed. Not unless he somehow switched bodies and became more athletic/developed a consistent jumpshot over his extra year. His best case scenario was always as a marginal roleplayer on an NBA team with no better options. If you're a PG who can't shoot consistently in the NBA these days you better be about as athletic as Rajon Rondo is... Unlike Rondo, Morris isn't an elite defender/passer/rebounder(for his position)... He's just either average or slightly above average in each category.