Spring practice would be over.
frank beamer #1
Spring practice would be over.
Everyone hands out second chances. The coaches only really care if it directly effects the team (missed practice, etc). I don't understand why the school didn't expel them. That's a huge black eye and bad precedent for any school to set regardless of whether the attackers play football.
Because they are the only hope of keeping up with Michigan athletically, and the school knows it.
That may be, I'm not arguing one way or the other. I just think it's a really bad precedent to be seen giving very strong young men who spend a great deal of time being encouraged to be violent (normal football) Carte Blanche to attack other students with minimal repercussions. I'd be upset if I were a student and they were still there.
This wasn't a dumb decision by a couple kids, it was a large premeditated act.
Predicted Free Press headline on this story. "Dantonio's Commitment to Players Highlights Continuing Erosion of Family Values at Michigan Under Rodriguez."
Her story is just basic reporting, no commentary. No need to link it; but here are some vintage Dantonio quotes from her Freep.com story:
“It’s been four months since these guys have taken part in any football activities,” Dantonio said. “Without question, it’s been a very long time. I feel like they’ve endured the football end of things, the judicial process and the public ridicule or whatever you want to call it."
“Guys make mistakes, guys pay the consequences, we move forward.”
Dantonio did not elaborate on the status of wide receiver Fred Smith, who received jail time, saying that Smith “needed to take care of his judicial responsibilities first.” Smith did not appear on the spring roster.
“Every one of those players still involved with this are still my players, whether they’re here or elsewhere,” Dantonio said. “I will stand behind them and try to support them in anything that they do because I want them to be successful in life. We wish them all the best and we need to move forward.”
Could you see the outcry if RichRod said:
“Guys make mistakes, guys pay the consequences, we move forward.”
Rodriguez did not elaborate on the status of Justin Feagin, who received jail time, saying that Feagin “needed to take care of his judicial responsibilities first.” Feagin did not appear on the spring roster.
“Feagin is still my player, whether he's here or elsewhere,” Rodriguez said. “I will stand behind him and try to support him in anything that he does because I want him to be successful in life. We wish him all the best and we need to move forward.”
I don't think Feagin received jail time. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
"We're just trying to educate and be proactive, and I think it draws our team together."
That's why they went in there and assaulted people in the first place. To educate and be proactive. Nice Try Saint D'Antoine
"It was a team bonding experience."
to be fair, it's way easier to find a Teacher's Assistant for Criminology professors from the football team
If I was a sports "journalist" for a national outlet (ESPN, SI, etc) I would be writiing a story about the local media's hypocracy and the inherent lack of integrity in relation to the "reporting" of these two stories (Sparty beatdown convictions and jail time verse Dorsey acquital)
Hey, Crime Reporter... can't you get on this???? This could be your springboard to becoming "Sports Crime Reporter" on ESPN.
Trust me. This whole double standard drives me nuts. I will be curious to see how some of the media outlets in Michigan cover it.
Don't you still have contacts here? You should tell someone who isn't a biased turd to do some real journalism about the yellow journalism and double standards in the state of Michigan.
I have contacts, and I have spoken to some of them about this, but I don't see anything happening. In my experience, newspapers and newspaper columnists/writers do not call out others in the profession, at least at this level. Maybe in New York or LA, but not here.
I would love to write about it personally, but I have an agenda as well, in that I am a fanatical Michigan follower. At the same time, I can take off the glasses and see the big picture.
And that is what bothers me most. The double standard is so blatantly obvious yet these journalists (I hate even calling them that now) are given free reign to write this bullshit to serve their twisted goals.
My advice is to keep e-mailing the paper, keep calling and let them know this is unacceptable. Send it to the editors (not just sports either) and the publisher. Demand to speak with the managing editor, or if he/she won't respond, the head editor in charge of the entire product.
In one of the PS2 versions of NCAA football (I don't recall the exact year), players would get into trouble. You had to pick a punishment for them, and if you were too wimpy about it the NCAA would come calling. I'm just wondering if perhaps Mr. Dantonio was playing Madden that year.
EDIT: Wait, they were a year ahead. So '05 or '06. Think it was '05.
You had a scale of how many pts to allocate to recruiting how many to discipline and how many to training.
Dantonio took my approach and spent it all on recruiting and training. :)
I remember this feature, I hated it. I couldn't stand having good players get in trouble, I always went light on them and then hammered the 3rd string guy to keep the NCAA calm. Does that mean I'm a Dantonio disciple? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
Oh wait, I was playing a video game, not dealing with real life and people. Silly Dantonio
"it's not a quick fix judiciously..."
Uh, Coach; that would be "judicially." [Normal scowl on Dantonio's face turns to extra-scowl.]
The whole freaking story reads like an MGoBlogger's submission to The Onion. You can hardly make up stuff like that.
again. Go Blue and all but GLASS HOUSES
You wrote, "the Michigan football program is stocked with kids getting second chances for crimes worse than following their buddies into a bad situation."
Lemme do some elaboratin' for you. The point, I think my fellow MGoBloggers will agree with me, is that one such kid, Demar Dorsey, under considerably milder circumstances caused a gigantic ruckus that specifically caused the Free Press to dispatch Mr. Drew Sharpton to Ann Arbor for an otherwise routine press conference, to cross-examine Coach Rich Rodriguez about Dorsey and then do not one but a series of opinion hit-pieces on the topic.
Which kids are good and bad, and which kids actually deserve second chances is anybody's guess. I'm not really caring a whole lot about the particular kids in East Lansing.
What gets me is that one isolated case causes huge consternation over the kind of human being Rich Rodriguez is, while Dantonio is never questioned. At least not by the Free Press.
And it may be that the Free Press regards MSU as an out-state school and not really part of Detroit, which is the Free Press' decision to make. And it may be that the lowly standards of MSU football in recent years, and the lofty standards of Michigan, make for unfair comparisons that the Free Press can't quite figure out. Maybe they think that under those circumstances, Dantonio is over-achieving and Rodriguez is under-achieving. Or, as others have said, maybe MSU football doesn't rate Michigan-type scrutiny because other than George Blaha, nobody gives two shits about Michigan State Spartan football.
In any event, we shall see what sort of serious-character-questions this raises, for the Free Press sportswriting staff, with respect to Dantonio. One place to look will be to see if Mick McCabe sheds his cloak as Preps Reporter to once again be The Voice of Preps Morality and question Dantonio on his selections of players. Like, uh, his diatribe against Dorsey and Rodriguez.
ripping on Dantonio for a misspeak when Rodriguez has been fluent in the same sort of malformed words is hypocritical
you took it way off base from what i said.
"to act in a judicious manner"
he used it properly. may have meant the former, but the latter still works.
Dantonio committed a malapropism. He should have said, "judicially," insofar as he was referring to the time-consuming process of having a judge rule on a pending criminal matter, as opposed to dispatching matters more quickly and directly as a matter of team discipline.
Indeed, he did use the word "judicial" in a Freep quote that Shannon Sharp wrote up.
Dantonio said "judiciously" when he should have said "judicially."
My best guess is that these are vocabulary waters that are way over Coach Dantonio's head.
RR is a walking malapropism that nobody on here rips. hence "glass houses"
and, albeit unintentional, he did us a variation of the word properly.
but, you know, since i decided to be wet blanket ARGUMENNNNNNNNNNT
This is serious garbage. These guys committed major offenses. This is not a "kid got drinking underage" or "kid got caught with pot" type of situation. These are major athletes organizing themselves to beat the shit out of non-athletes. They aren't that young either, Dell and Cunningham are both above 21 I believe, it's not like their 15 and don't know right from wrong.
As much as I hate schools like ND and OSU, I have a certain level of respect for them as football teams and programs. I have no respect at all for Michigan State and their overall athletic program. I think it projects very poorly on our state and conference as a whole.
I agree with your general sentiment, but I don't believe that Sparty is relevant enough nationally, and maybe even at the conference level, to reflect poorly on the state.
Don't get me wrong, the way Dantonio handled this "altercation" is a total joke, but face it, nobody gives a shit about State
They get confused with U-M. A lot. Literally, no fucking joke at all, I had someone tell me he was a graduate of MSU law school....by accident....because he'd intended to apply to U-M and got the two mixed up. And didn't realize it until he was actually in East Lansing.
That being the case, Sparty needs to shape the hell up, because, yeah, it's reflecting badly on us.
And that is probably why he went to MSU law school instead of a good school...
Uhh...I'm pretty sure that a 15 year old knows that doing things like that is wrong. So would a 13 year old, and an eight year old, and a five year old.
Also, please do not tell me that that comment was intended as a passive defense of Dorsey.
one of my good friends went to state this past weekend where her friends roommate got "into an altercation with a big black guy". At the end of the party this guy was waiting outside for him with 2 other guys and they beat the crap out of him. She saw these 3 guys the next night and asked if they were at the party last night, they confirmed, she got names and numbers..I know what your wondering. Yes, they are on the football team. No I don't know the names or anything else that is going to happen. I told her to turn the names in though if that counts for anything.
This whole situation is fucked up. I have several (MANYMANYMANY) Sparty co-workers and a few in the family, and to a man (term used loosely)not one of them so much as knew about the Rather Hall "incident", much less that the same damn thing happened last year. Why don't they know? Because our local media doesn't report it. But my Sparty brother sure knew about a "lot of things" that Rodriguez has done to show he's a scumbag, which sent me into a dizzying spittle flecked condescending RAGE, trying to 'splain to him what the real story is.
Fuck Sparty, fuck Drew Sharp, fuck Rosenberg, fuck the Freep, fuck em all.
... I get more mad.
"You're going to fall down at times," I'll agree that we all make mistakes, but most of us have consequences too. DUI, lose your privilege to drive. Adultery, lose the privilege of 70% of your paycheck. For a football player, most of whom are at school solely due to their football prowess, the privilege of "playing football" needs to be taken from them (at least for a while).
"We have the same problems that society has in a lot of ways, and because we live in a fish bowl..." Really!?!? Can't imagine what I'd be up against if me and 10+ buddies, (maybe visiting campus for a football game, got into minor scuffle with a couple of students) tracked down a group of kids in a dorm and assaulted them and their friends. I can guarantee you one thing, I'd never be allowed on campus again.
The idea that these poor guys are somehow either more suspect, more villified, or condemned more harshly just because they're players, is CRAP.
It sickens me that the dividing line seems to be 'the justice system playing itself out'; as in, so long as the verdict has been rendered, we can move on now. I would whole-heartedly agree that in these cases, these guys should be required to "earn back" a second chance by at least completing some of their punishments before being given back all their privileges.
How the FR**P will come out with a story of how classy the great Dantonio is for giving second chances.
and signature reminded me of the last M-MSU hockey game in East Lansing. We get there, pile into Yost West, assemble into our self-proclaimed student section, and are asked to SIT DOWN. At a season-ended college hockey game.
Not only that, apparently the EL police confiscated a cowbell from the M student section the night before and never gave it back, meanwhile at this game some Sparty joker must have gotten carpal tunnel from beating his own cowbell the entire night with no reaction from the Green Fuzz.
i guess i get to be the wet blanket that asks if a DUI or being at a fight where punches were thrown is worse.
I don't think anyone was saying that a DUI isn't a bad thing. But not all DUI's are created equal. If you are found sitting in a running car on the side of the road drunk, this is different than being drunk and driving wrecklessly, getting into an accident and injuring someone or worse.
Also, I wouldn't call this MSU situation "being at a fight where punches were thrown." This was a premeditated "let's get a bunch of our football player buddies together and beat the shit out of people" event.
In my opinion there are 2 things that really matter when determining how wrong something is. First, is there any harm/damage done? This can either be in the form of property damage or physical harm to a person. Second is intent. What did this person intend to do? Did they make a bad choice and hurt someone in the process? Or was the sole purpose of their action to hurt someone or something? In the MSU case, there was significant harm done to multiple people, and this harm was exactly what the parties involved intended to do.
I don't know how to figure out relative badness of DUI vs. fighting, but I do know that there's a big difference between the garden-variety "Fightin In Da Club" (to use the EDSBS term) and gathering up a group of people expressly to go somewhere else for the sole purpose of beating people up. Something that has now happened twice in about a year's span with MSU football players.
i'm not arguing that going from the FOOTBALL BANQUET to a frat CHARITY event ON CAMPUS isn't stupid (i even e-yelled!). what i'm getting as is how ridiculous it is that posters are ridiculing Dantonio for putting kids who were given probation by the state back on the roster. where were these people when Grady was brought back to the team?
if this was winston or jenrette there'd be a point. with 4 kids who were given probation for being there like idiots? not so much.
Intent, malice, thuggery.
i would consider being behind the wheel, driving to a point and then more or less passing out WAY worse than going to an event 'en masse' knowing the entire fraternity was there to watch your friend fight 1-2 guys they're looking for. both are HUGELY idiotic but the notion that this 'second chance' is somehow egregious compared to the chance given by RR is absurd.
this is definitely a glass houses issue.
If you hurt someone doing the former, it's by accident. If you hurt someone doing the latter, then you succeeded because that's what you absolutely meant to do.
but it can very reasonably be argued it is NOT an accident to know you shouldn't be behind the wheel. further, your argument "struggles" because the courts found none of these players were guilty of striking someone. everyone on here would have a point if these were the aggressors but it's been already found they followed along dumbly but received probation bc there involvement was so very minor.
Typically, purposely aiding and abetting a crime is treated the same as actual commission of that crime. I consider them all equally thugoriffic. Here's a question:
"Hey brah, we're going down to IPT tonight to kick all their asses. Want to come help?"
The correct answer is:
A) "No, and you should really just drop it."
B) "No, but have fun."
C) "Awesome! Sounds like fun. Can't wait."
If MSU and the Freep are going to throw the "courts may have acquitted Dorsey but he's still a thug" stone at us, then I'm gonna throw it right back through their own glass house. At the very least Dorsey wasn't under the direct guidance of Rodriguez when he went out and did that stuff, whereas it's pretty obvious these players know they can get away with being THUGZ 4 LYFE under Dantonio because he allows that stuff to go on.
As for the DUI thing: yes, obviously it should be known that you shouldn't be behind the wheel, but that is still, at worst, purposely negligent. What these Sparties did was set out with the stated intent to hurt people. That's not negligence.
i have no argument that their actions deserve the attention they're getting. i think a crime in which they've been issued probation for does not warrant removal from the team. and if they're not going to be removed, they would be placed on the spring roster. the end.