Allen Trieu tweet
What could it even be?
Did anyone see the incredibly racist comment he made in the Rivals live chat? Apparently he's big into hunting and some asked him if he preferred bow hunting or rifles and he responded, "Rifle ... because Indians used the bow and arrow and lost to the white man." Hopefully it was just a slip of the tongue and he didn't mean it that way.
He's a high school kid. Go easy on him. I'm not sure how I feel about those Rivals chats. I'm awfully glad that I don't have a bunch of public statements on record from when I was 16 or 17.
I'm not calling him a bad person or anything, but that comment is pretty off color(no pun intended) and offensive.
WAHHHHHHHHHHH WAHHHH. So freaking what? Go cry me a trail of tears.
Yep. Too soon.
I'm just saying, all this politcal correctness is bullshit. The kid obviously didn't mean anything by it, he was just proving a point that a gun is the better choice in weapon than the bow. No one here hates indians. No need to bring out the annoying political correctness control team.
It wasn't about being PC, he didn't use a slur. He just poorly chose an example of why he thinks guns were better than rifles, but instead the comment implied that he a white male believed that his race was better than another. WHETHER OR NOT he meant it, that is how it comes off to a person with a sense of racial interactions.
but if a historian were discussing ancient cultures and why one defeated another with advanced technology, would anyone call that historian racist?
If he really were implying that whites are better than Native Americans, then sure that's racist. But saying one technology gave one race an advantage is fact, not racism, assuming the tone and context were matter of fact and not condescending.
Still, I didn't hear it and its best to be careful. I doubt a Native American would feel too honored by the statement... I just hate when we assume the worst first.
(this comes from a guy who prefers bow and arrow- man there's something sweet and earthy about shooting a bow)
But also stereotypes tend to have basis in truth and its a fine line to walk.
It almost could be taken as a statement that he wants to use the best technology.
And if we want to be sensitive about political correctness of his comment, then it was the Native Americans who lost to the "white man"
Ok before anyone gets too bent out of shape look at it this way. Sometimes its not the literal meaning of an offensive statement that causes the problem. In this case I think it is the connotation of what is begin said that causes a problem. On the outside it seems somewhat innocuous, but you have to imagine how some one would take it. So to be honest, a white male may have a hard time understanding what it implies to someone who carries that history and tradition with them on a daily basis.
I've yet to hear an Indian's perspective on how we continue to call Native Americans Indians. Is there just a collective forehead slap and eye roll over there when yet another American uses the five hundred year old inaccurate colloquialism?
Generally (obviously this is a situation where individuals don't represent groups), the modern accepted terminology is American Indians. One of the reasons that parts of the community have accepted that name is that it was one that American Indian scholars gave themselves. Both Indians and Native Americans are terminology that originated with white scholars. This is why even though Native American seems less offensive than Indian they are actually about equal to, at least, the scholars in the American Indian community.
Just let the kid be. The reason this country is so fucking racist still to this day is because everyone makes everything a racial battle. Fuck it. Just live in harmony and don't be so sensitive to shit like this. If the kid is wearing a KKK outfit, then you have something to worry about.
is that there are racist people out there who say racist things. People getting offended when people say offensive things is not the cause of racism. It is the result of racism.
Wow, thanks for simplifying the entire issue of race and racism in the U.S. in one short blog post. All us social scientists can just sit back now. Phew.
Listen to the song GWB by Ted Nugent,then you will understand. Does anybody really think he meant to belittle someones race or culture? Have weall not said some dumb shit we wish we would have said differently?
The guy is an outdoorsman and that alone makes me like him even more!
DOB please Go Blue!
If you read my comment below, I'm part Indian, and I'm mostly in O'Brien's corner here.
Now, when you make a joke about the forced expulsion of an entire peoples from their homeland, you'll have to forgive me if I don't join in the laughter.
While I also tend to think that there is way too much political correctness in most discussions, you make a compelling case that I'm wrong.
on this one. I read this as the white man defeated the indians largely due to better weaponry. It wasn't like he was on some nasty "racial superiority" rant. We're way to quick to assume malicious intent. Even a dog distinguishes between being stumbled over and being kicked.
Well, he wasn't asked why whites defeated the natives. He was asked if he used a bow or gun for hunting deer. There was no reason to bring up the whole whites-indians conflict, which is a pretty ugly, painful part of the country's history - it's best to not to bring it up frivolously, as opposed to having a serious discussion about it.
Just poor judgment on his part, not necessarily racism or malice.
... but I wouldn't call it racist, I'd call it insensitive and unnecessary.
Yea, sorry I didn't see this when I wrote my below comment, but yea... it was... inappropriate to say the least. Crazy kids and what not, but uhhhhh... yea I agree with you. Pretty poor choice of things to type.
But as a part Indian (Sault Chippewa FTW), I don't take that much offense. A lot of kids don't have a full appreciation of Native American history and culture. They often see "Cowboys and Indians" as a historical problem, rather than merely a part of an ongoing struggle between Native American culture and wider (white) society. Most have never even MET an Indian.
I'm willing to give him a pass on this, though hopefully someone will get in his ear a little bit about it.
It was more the point that it's much easier to shoot things with a rifle as opposed to a bow instead of hating native americans?
I would say it was callous, but racist?
means he is a Tennessee or Alabama lean now...
it happens, sometimes you dont think before you speak/type...hopefully an isolated incident.
I saw this comment last night and legit laughed out loud. He is a kid, he said he was hanging with Godin and they were probably messing around. It was a joke, and I found it funny. And technically, the Indians did use the bow, and they did lose to the white man. Loosen up, I doubt O'Brien is a racist.
I don't understand how anyone can describe what happened as "losing" to the white man. Genocide is not the same as a battle. Did the Jews "lose" to the Nazis? Did Africans "lose" to the white man? Hopefully Danny comes to Michigan and gets a solid education...not on political correctness, but on sensitivity to things that are still incredibly painful to many people because countless lives were lost and cultures destroyed. I know Danny didn't mean it and may not have known better, but I'm surprised by the insensitivity in some of the comments in this thread.
Recall the French and Indian war? Sometimes the Native Am. sided with whites against other whites. Some earliest white settlers aided one tribe against another.
A significant portion of whites to came to the US were forced to by circumstance, and were faced with creating a new life for themselves. Religious persecution, poverty, famine....Irish fleeing the famine didn't come here because they had a genocidal bloodlust. They needed something called food.
OBrien's childish, neo-con like comment isn't good, but spare me the left wing stereotypes too.
I don't disagree with anything you said, except for the very last piece. I'm not sure how calling what happened to American Indians genocide is a left wing stereotype. It seems like fact to me, and I think it makes sense that people are sensitive about genocide.
As one who is partly a First Nations person (because "Native Americans" isn't really any more accurate, since they weren't native, they just immigrated first), I'm glad the white man won, because I likebeing on the Internet. And all the other technological advances we have made. The losers get killed throughout history. It's sad, and often wrong. Get over it.
Wow. "Get over it" is a great message for those who have experienced persecution and discrimination. Also, strength and technology uber alles is a wonderful basis for a healthy society.
I mean I tend to agree with him. What good is it for those who experienced (past tense is key here) persecution and discrimination to cling to it for years to come and wallow in self pity? I think a much more productive way to proceed would be to get over it and try to do something positive. I'm not saying they should forget about it, I'm just saying they should get over it and move on.
I said nothing about wallowing in self pity. If we ignore history it repeats itself, and pretending that everything is ok, everyone is now treated equally, and racism and discrimination are practically wiped out just perpetuates this problem and takes a huge psychological toll on those in the minority, who still experience discrimination that priviliged white people (like myself) cannot truly understand. There's a difference between acknowledging discrimination and trying to actively change things (what I'm talking about) vs. just dwelling on the past and wallowing in pity and anger.
If you heard some of the stories I've heard (I'm a psychologist) from people of color and the discrimination they STILL experience on a regular basis, you would not tell them to get over it and move on.
Notice the entire basis of my post was that "experienced discrimination" implies past tense (I went out of the way to point this out). As opposed to "experiencing discrimination" which implies present tense and the last paragraph of your post covers. Also I wrote that it SHOULD be remembered (or not forgotten), so your comment about "ignoring history" must be directed at some other post that you failed to reply to. You've effectively constructed a straw-man to argue against.
I'm all for acknowledging discrimination and actively changing things, as you are. I just don't think that reply was warranted given my post specifically pointed out situations that were in the past. Maybe you misread something, I don't know.
I guess our disagreement revolves around the concept of "past discrimination," specifically as it applies to American Indians. I think you can talk about past discrimination wrt Irish Americans, but what has been done to American Indians is by no means past. What was done to their culture (and population) has permanent consequences, and having lived in Arizona and worked with American Indians I can tell you that the discrimination and unequal opportunity is alive and well.
I'm not trying to pick a fight, and my problem is more with what some posters (not necessarily you) have said than Danny's comment, which I know he didn't mean in a racist way. This is an area I'm very passionate about, and there is a ton of research and literature pointing out the harmful effects (psychological as well as physiological) of covert discrimination and racism (aka "microaggressions") on people of color. I think beliefs such as "I don't see color" and "we're all equal now because overt racism is far less frequent than it used to be" are terribly painful for people of color and toxic to our culture and the goal of eliminating racism, discrimination, and privilege. Again, I'm not attacking you, just trying to explain my point (and the general concensus in the world of diversity research/literature). Hope that makes sense.
A. I feel bad for your dog.
2. Get over it.
Was it really necessary to make this personal?
no surprise. sounds llike his recruitment will go into the season. while still pending if the coaches take one or two DT's.
I'm still a little irritated by his comment about Native Americans, but I am a pussified lib so fuck me and shit I guess.
I just thought it was a weird comment. Perhaps a poor attempt at being funny?
Yea that is what I took from it. Kid is young and likes hunting (to which, like yea bad jokes and stuff). Still it was pretty shocking to read.
O'Brien does not read this stuff. He might get the impression UM is full of pussified libs with no sense of humor or perspective.
After spending 4 year on campus there I'm not sure that would be an incorrect impression. Not that there aren't other great things on campus and in AA. But if he is not OK with a liberal leaning town and student body with demonstrations all the time on campus, maybe it isn't the right place for him.
are that way, given the ideologies of most professors and many teachers from grade school through hs. Some of us grew out of it . . .
I don't like, care a ton or anything, but I think it was an offensive thing to say.
Despite the no particular order, Michigan was listed first...
All the best DTs go hunting... but the elite ones don't use guns OR bows and arrows.
If "flamebait' could ever be an upvote, this would be it.
Especially since Iron Eyes Cody was really Sicilian.
(That said, his wife was native and they adopted a bunch of native kids)
Part of Growing Up is learning to watch what you say, and to realize that you can give offense easily. I would assume that the typical culture at Michigan (and the coaches concern to protect their team) will drill this into O'Brien.
My concern is not so much with political correctness, but with what O'Brien actually thinks (about American Indians, or Asians, or those from the Middle East, or LGBT folk, or women, etc., etc.) I will never forget a friend who was a black bus driver in Ann Arbor, back in the day. He said to me, "You know what the difference between the north and the south is? It's not what people think. It's that people in Ann Arbor don't say what they think, but hide it under nice words." That always stuck with me. I hope that O'Brien learns to respect folk for who they are, not for their skin color or education or wealth or religion or anything else.
What's ironic is O'Brien's surname (and presumed ethnic heritage.) It wasn't that long ago that Brits et al would make incredibly condescending and slanderous comments about those with Irish heritage. For example, here is a cartoon by Thomas Nast subtitled, The Usual Irish Way of Doing Things.
Yeah, my wife and her very large Irish family pretty much confirm that stereotype every time they get together. It's awesome.
You are over thinking a TWEET. Please.
I love how in so many cases the person LEAST targeted by a controversal comment is the first to get offended on the behalf of others. Sometimes people make jokes offensive in nature that are obviously jokes. I bet he didn't sit there stone-faced and say (or type) this one. He's a teenager...he'll get that whole judgment thing figured out soon enough. Let it go.
Well, isn't this just the best thread ever?
I'm part "Indian." It was an ignorant thing to say, but I said a lot of ignorant things when I was a child. There are some stupid things said in this thread. We're not Indians. We're not American Indians. He is showing ignorance. There is a large difference between stupidity and ignorance. Ignorance is OK. Hopefully, the kid learns from someone other than some of the men that post on this forum. We prefer to be referred to as 'natives' if you absolutely need to specify a difference, but first and foremost, we're just people.
But his UM offer might not even be legit come Monday.
How about we take this thread down and start again anew? And this time let's not let acute political sensitivities seeking the smallest opening for expression enslave the thread - turning potential discussion of a strong recruit into a veritable smallpox blanket for UM in that recruit's decision making. How about it?
He's a 17 year old having questions thrown at him very quickly (he answered 6 questions in 3 minutes). Could have been he was nervous or just trying to be funny. I think shooting a bow would be cooler, but if I needed to kill something I'm bringing a gun. With that being said IMO it was in poor taste, more ignorant than racist as somebody pointed out earlier. Now the things that stuck out to me were.
He said Hoke and Mattison were pressuring him a little.
He'd love to play with Godin.
He likes his chances to start early (he didn't mention where).
He thinks James Ross is the best recruit in the state.
He said we told him we're taking only one more interior DL, but if Pipkins commits this weekend we'd still take him.