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Danielson just won't quit hating the spread.

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December 1st, 2012 at 8:26 PM
#1
Ziff72
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 5142
Danielson just won't quit hating the spread.

So Alabama finally sticks to the run and starts pounding Georgia.   Now is the time for Danielson to say something stupid   "I've been saying  this for 5 years the elite teams need to run this type of offense"  Who is elite?  Was Florida elite when Tebow was there?   He thinks if you have a dominant line you can wear teams down and you don't need tempo to wear teams down.

No Gary you don't need tempo to wear a defense down.....IF YOU HAVE 5 NFL STUDS ON YOUR O-LINE!!!!  Hopefully we have 5 seasoned NFL studs on our line in 2 years.  It won't matter what offense we run then.  Everyone will be a genius then.

All sorts of offenses work well if you run them right... just stop it Gary.

Danielson is gong to take up the "computers are a fad" argument next.  

 

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December 1st, 2012 at 8:31 PM | Clearly it is better to rely (Score:4 Normal)
FreeKarl
FreeKarl's picture
Joined: 11/16/2012
MGoPoints: 195

Clearly it is better to rely on recruiting and developing a Tim Tebowesque QB than developing a talented OL. 

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December 1st, 2012 at 8:38 PM | Or you could do (Score:3 Normal)
MGoBlue96
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Joined: 12/26/2010
MGoPoints: 1015

both. Florida's o-lines with Tebow, were very talented units.

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December 1st, 2012 at 9:01 PM | VERY talented O-line in front of Tebow. (Score:5 Normal)
Sopwith
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Joined: 06/29/2010
MGoPoints: 1622

They had multiple Pounceys, for crissake.

"You know, for a bartender/bookie, you're pretty judgmental."

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December 1st, 2012 at 8:34 PM | I find that odd considering (Score:5 Normal)
orobs
Joined: 10/03/2010
MGoPoints: 1729

I find that odd considering he has Johnny Manziel's semen all over his face

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December 1st, 2012 at 8:34 PM | I can barely stand listening (Score:5 Normal)
bluetell
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Joined: 07/03/2008
MGoPoints: 4770

I can barely stand listening to the CBS guys. It's a SEC propaganda team

Rudy watches inspirational movies about Shawn Hunwick

 

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December 1st, 2012 at 11:06 PM | Danielson is a dumbass (Score:0 Flamebait)
iawolve
iawolve's picture
Joined: 11/03/2008
MGoPoints: 2488

Or the world's best troller. He has to say some of that stuff to be going after fan bases. Maybe he is just that stupid, I don't know.

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December 1st, 2012 at 8:40 PM | Its hard to watch and listen (Score:3 Normal)
redwhiteandmaize
Joined: 02/04/2012
MGoPoints: 1025

Its hard to watch and listen to but this is some good football.

"Are you an official here?Because you've officially given me a boner."

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December 1st, 2012 at 8:44 PM | I don't get why some of these (Score:1 Normal)
Profwoot
Profwoot's picture
Joined: 10/12/2010
MGoPoints: 197

I don't get why some of these fogeys conflate the spread with a quick tempo. A spread can go slow, and a more traditional offense can go fast. Even Air Force was running up tempo against M this year.

His false dichotomy was particularly hilarious. If you have a good OL, you don't need tempo to wear the defense down. So, wouldn't a good OL at a higher tempo wear the defense down even more? Is there a rule that says OL above a certain skill level are required to huddle?

Yeesh.

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December 1st, 2012 at 8:57 PM | It's not the spread its being (Score:1)
natesezgoblue
natesezgoblue's picture
Joined: 05/24/2010
MGoPoints: 2336

It's not the spread its being able to balanced. Danielson must've not have been watching when Bama was in their Pistol sets..

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December 1st, 2012 at 9:00 PM | Gary Danielson... (Score:2)
Yeoman
Joined: 06/08/2011
MGoPoints: 2247

...is a man of negotiable opinions.

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December 1st, 2012 at 9:55 PM | Like when he criticized Saban (Score:2 Normal)
Clarence Beeks
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Joined: 09/06/2008
MGoPoints: 3450

Like when he criticized Saban for going for two in the third quarter, but then in the fourth quarter he thought it was a great decision?

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December 2nd, 2012 at 1:20 AM | He didn't (Score:1)
Gulogulo37
Joined: 03/16/2010
MGoPoints: 254

He didn't call it a great decision. He just said Saban had a play he liked and he ran it and it worked. Then for a while he explained how adding 2 to a number works.

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December 1st, 2012 at 9:14 PM | He made a dumber claim about the two-point conversion. (Score:2)
Mr Miggle
Mr Miggle's picture
Joined: 10/07/2010
MGoPoints: 1601

He said that if it had failed Alabama would have had a two point lead during Georgia's last drive. Anyone think Alabama wouldn't have gone for two again?

Eating is murder.

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December 1st, 2012 at 9:17 PM | Danielson Homer (Score:3 Normal)
Dude Lebowski
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Joined: 06/18/2012
MGoPoints: 40

Danielson is such a Bama homer it's pathetic.

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December 2nd, 2012 at 11:27 AM | He might like Bama (I think (Score:2)
RonZeroFez
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Joined: 12/13/2011
MGoPoints: 168

He might like Bama (I think it's more a respect thing for how they play), but I wouldn't call him a "homer".  Danielson was born in Detroit, went to school at Purdue, and covered state of Michigan sports for years before making it to the national stage, first doing B1G with ESPN/ABC, then moving over to CBS, which happens to conver the SEC.    

If you don't ride a camel, you ain't shi'ite.

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December 1st, 2012 at 9:21 PM | Meh (Score:5 Normal)
michgoblue
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Joined: 11/16/2009
MGoPoints: 11210

I don't think half of these guys even know what they mean when they say "the spread." Do they mean RR's option read spread? The pistol that the illini used a few years back? Maybe the new england patriots' pro-style spread? There is no actual "spread" - there are many offenses that fall into the category of trying to spread the field, but they are so diverse.



If you ask me, winning is predicated on (1) having talented players who have talents that fit the system being run, and (2) being diverse enough in whichever offense you run so that it is not easy to stop you.



People tend that think that the spread (presumably referring to what rr and florida circa tebow ran) fails at #2 because you can stop it by stacking the line to take away the run. This is only possible of you have a spread qb who is not an adept thrower (sadly, think Denard). Many spread qbs fall into this category (great legs, sub-par throwing) so people assume that the spread is easy to stop when a team manages to successfully defend it by taking away the run. However, when a spread is run with a qb like cam newton, RG3 or tebow (behind a quality line) it is as hard to stop or harder than any offense. The biggest problem is that finding spread qbs who can throw like newton, rg3 and tebow (he was decent in college) is very rare.

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December 1st, 2012 at 9:25 PM | Not sure why a blatant Bama (Score:3 Normal)
turtleboy
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Joined: 04/22/2011
MGoPoints: 3207

Not sure how a blatant Bama homer like Daniel-san could draw a conclusion like that since they keep getting gashed by SEC QBs that run the spread (Tebow, Newton, Manziel) 

How many times have you been on the freeway and had someone fly by you at 100 mph then end up 2 cars ahead of you at the off ramp? What's the point? -Mark Harmon

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December 1st, 2012 at 9:26 PM | National Championship Game (Score:-1 Normal)
DixieWreck
Joined: 07/31/2010
MGoPoints: 1425

Irish Catholics vs Nick Satan

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December 1st, 2012 at 9:32 PM | Danielson is doing his job. (Score:5 Normal)
Yeoman
Joined: 06/08/2011
MGoPoints: 2247

He's promoting the football that's broadcast by the network that employs him. When he was working for ESPN/ABC he was slobbering over the B1G; his entire set of football opinions shifted overnight when he took the CBS job. If he switched to Fox over the offseason he'd spend next year drooling over Oregon's offense.

If it's hard for him to make a coherent argument, maybe it's because the conclusion is given and he's trying to back into the argument. He can't usefully define "the spread" because if he did he'd run into the Manziel problem.

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December 1st, 2012 at 9:34 PM | Spread, shmred. (Score:4 Normal)
YoOoBoMoLloRoHo
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Joined: 11/01/2012
MGoPoints: 1002

The talent decides the outcome. Bama has basically NFL level talent with probably 16 kids in the field with legit pro chances. Florida was killer with their power spread staffed with a host of superstars. Scheme barely matters if every position can physically whip the competition.

We have 4 starters (DR, Funchess, Lewan, Ryan) with pro futures + a bunch of solid D1 player = 8-4 season. Exactly why we need McQuay and Treadwell.

"Everybody wants to be a hero, so to speak.  But it takes everybody."  - Charles Woodson

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December 1st, 2012 at 10:01 PM | Scheme is vastly overrated I (Score:4 Normal)
Seattle Maize
Seattle Maize's picture
Joined: 03/24/2011
MGoPoints: 267

Scheme is vastly overrated I think.. I think Danielsons argument is that you need dominant linemen to be an elite team and those elite linemen want to play in a pro style offense (with the rare exception of Florida under Meyer). Spread offenses are exciting but truly dominant teams will continue to run pro style offenses and defenses to attract the best players. Michigan is headed in this direction.

In the last 2 classes there are many players who could turn in to nfl calibr players, especially in the front 7 defensively and in the online. This along with our staffs ability to develop players and I think michigan is looking at becoming a perennial top 4 or 5 program and be in the hunt for championships every year.

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December 1st, 2012 at 10:23 PM | "Could" is key (Score:2 Normal)
YoOoBoMoLloRoHo
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Joined: 11/01/2012
MGoPoints: 1002

Yeldon, Cooper, Gurley and Marshall played key roles in a huge game as frosh. What true frosh played a big role in the OSU game? A bunch of true sophs played big roles for UGA/Bama.

I am not slighting our kids - there are some talented kids who could develop into fine players. Other than Funchess, though, no one has shown freak ability.

I would wager my eldest child that Gurley would easily beat 14 yards on 10 carries (our RB output vs OSU).

"Everybody wants to be a hero, so to speak.  But it takes everybody."  - Charles Woodson

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December 1st, 2012 at 10:52 PM | Most of the talent in our (Score:4 Normal)
Seattle Maize
Seattle Maize's picture
Joined: 03/24/2011
MGoPoints: 267

Most of the talent in our first couple classes with Hoke has been concentrated on the O and D lines. Players at those positions take longer to develop so I think you'll see that talent starting to show up next year. Once we get some depth there I'm sure we will focus more ore fruiting skill position guys who can have a more immediate impact on the game.

Championship teams are built from the inside out and we had very little talent on the inside when hoke got here. This has changed in the last 2 classes and is the reason why I'm so excited for the future with this staff.

Also, none of those skill position guys you mentioned would have had much of an impact if Georgia or Alabama couldn't get it done upfront first.

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December 1st, 2012 at 11:40 PM | OK, just recognize that (Score:1)
YoOoBoMoLloRoHo
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Joined: 11/01/2012
MGoPoints: 1002

Bama signed lineman & LBs in Saban's initial classes along with AJ McCarron, Eddie Lacy, Trent Richardson, Kenny Bell, Kevin Norwood, Michael Williams, Dee Milner, Robert Lester, Dre Kirkpatrick and Julio Jones - that's a shitload of top skill players.

We're moving in the right direction but I'm not sold on our reaching elite in the next 3 years or so.

"Everybody wants to be a hero, so to speak.  But it takes everybody."  - Charles Woodson

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December 1st, 2012 at 11:45 PM | And I forgot Mark Barron and (Score:1)
YoOoBoMoLloRoHo
YoOoBoMoLloRoHo's picture
Joined: 11/01/2012
MGoPoints: 1002

the Heisman winner from Michigan - Mark Ingram. Amazing list of skill recruits.

"Everybody wants to be a hero, so to speak.  But it takes everybody."  - Charles Woodson

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December 2nd, 2012 at 1:07 AM | Yeah no doubt they got elite (Score:1)
Seattle Maize
Seattle Maize's picture
Joined: 03/24/2011
MGoPoints: 267

Yeah no doubt they got elite talent out there but the reason why they are able to look so good is because they're front 7 on d + their online are all very good. I think that the skill guys that michigan has been getting are capable of being very good, they just need the interior first.

All those guys that you mentioned turned out to be very good players, but its not like they all came in and dominated as freshmen. I think guys like jarrod Wilson, chesson, Deveon smith, Jordan Lewis, dymonte Thomas, etc. will end up being very very good down the line.

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December 2nd, 2012 at 11:28 AM | I think you're missing his (Score:2)
Lionsfan
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Joined: 06/03/2011
MGoPoints: 3893

I think you're missing his point a little bit. In Saban's second class he pulled in guys like Julio and Ingram, and that was coming off a 7-5 inaugural season that included a loss to Louisiana-Monroe. So he was pulling in talented guys without having a history of a dominant O-Line for them to run behind play with

And not to be a downer either, but those guys did dominate as Frosh. Ingram had 700 something yards rushing, Julio had 900 yards receiving. Cody started 12 games on the DL, and guys like Upshaw and Barron had significant minutes played

If you're doing nothing, how do you know when you're finished?

StraightDave owes me a steak dinner

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December 2nd, 2012 at 9:21 AM | Gurley broke more tackles on (Score:2)
chitownblue2
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Joined: 06/03/2009
MGoPoints: 7060

Gurley broke more tackles on a single run than we did all year.

wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog

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December 1st, 2012 at 9:53 PM | He actually didn't say what (Score:4 Normal)
Clarence Beeks
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Joined: 09/06/2008
MGoPoints: 3450

He actually didn't say what you quoted, I don't think. My recollection is that he said "elite teams run this type of offense", as opposed to "need to run this type of offense".

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December 1st, 2012 at 9:59 PM | Maybe I misheard it... (Score:2)
Yeoman
Joined: 06/08/2011
MGoPoints: 2247

...but I also definitely thought there was a "need to" in there. And it also would fit better with what he said in the next couple of sentences.

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December 1st, 2012 at 10:05 PM | I was just coming back to (Score:2 Normal)
Clarence Beeks
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Joined: 09/06/2008
MGoPoints: 3450

I was just coming back to post that my comment wasn't in any way a criticism of your post, but just rather that if what I recall hearing is what he said, it's even worse because it's so blatantly false. Sorry if that came across differently.



That said, what I suspect he was getting at is actually what we are seeing with our strategy transition and what schools like Stanford are doing: going back to the attitude that we can attract top end legitimate NFL potential talent by playing the systems used in the NFL. That's certainly what Alabama does and I think we're seeing that with some of our defense recruiting with Mattison's system in place. I think that's what he actually meant, but he couldn't have said it much worse (no matter which way he said it).

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December 1st, 2012 at 10:16 PM | For the record (I just went (Score:2 Informative)
Clarence Beeks
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Joined: 09/06/2008
MGoPoints: 3450

For the record (I just went back and watched it again), we are both wrong. He said:



"I've been been saying this for five years: the elite teams have to run this type of offense. There's too many great offensive linemen and running backs that can pound the ball, protect your quarterback, wear down that defense. There's more ways to wear down a defense than just by going up tempo. You can beat 'em in submission."



That actually explains to me why we heard it differently, too. We probably both interpreted the use of "have to" differently and recalled the quote in the context if how we interpreted "have to".

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December 1st, 2012 at 10:00 PM | Having the Best skilled (Score:3 Normal)
Schembo
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Joined: 01/06/2011
MGoPoints: 913

Having the Best skilled players and a good coaching staff is what's most important, regardless of scheme. I get tired of spread vs pro-style, and does defense win championships or is it a quartback league. It all works if you have more talent than the opposition. The only question is does the spread offense help teams with less talent?

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December 1st, 2012 at 10:08 PM | Lions (Score:4 Normal)
doughboy
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Joined: 10/27/2009
MGoPoints: 866

Neg-bang away but I've always been a fan of Gary since he was the QB for Detroit. Talk about a thankless job.

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December 2nd, 2012 at 4:08 AM | Gary deserves credit for (Score:1)
Brodie
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Joined: 11/19/2008
MGoPoints: 3454

Gary deserves credit for sticking in the NFL for well over a decade in spite of limited skill, but he is an open and unabashed Michigan hater.  

When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing. -- Bo Schembechler

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December 1st, 2012 at 11:40 PM | I'm in the minority here at (Score:3 Normal)
GotBlueOnMyMind
Joined: 03/01/2012
MGoPoints: 125

I'm in the minority here at mgoblog, but I actually kind of agree with the sentiment, insofar as I do think that good west coast offenses can achieve more consistent and predictable success than do spreads. It just seems like spread offenses are much more prone to flop games than are offenses predicated on good between the tackles running and a solid west coast passing attack. It may not be as exciting or entertaining, but if you look at the last few national championship games, it seems to be true. You can still "spread" out the offense and be dynamic with 4 WR sets as well in such offenses, just look at Ok St. This is just one man's opinion though, trying to add a different opinion to the standard fare around here.

Bo Schembechler BA, Bear Bryant Law.

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December 2nd, 2012 at 2:51 AM | OK State is Air Raid/Spread (Score:1)
morepete
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Joined: 10/23/2011
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So, that doesn't hold together. Oklahoma State's offense has virtually nothing in common with the West Coast Offense, at least as defined by Bill Walsh at Stanford. So either the distinction between pro-style and spread are meaningless, or you're willing to acknowledge that the spread is a very effective offense.

Moeller v. Excalibur Restaurant -- Fight!

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December 2nd, 2012 at 4:12 AM | pro-style and west coast are (Score:1)
Brodie
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Joined: 11/19/2008
MGoPoints: 3454

pro-style and west coast are not necessarily the same thing. I wouldn't call what the Lions or the Pats run a west coast offense by any stretch, for example. I think teams like Okie State run pro-style spreads, which is probably the future as the NFL evolves to become even more pass oriented.  

When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing. -- Bo Schembechler

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December 2nd, 2012 at 12:25 AM | Danielson is 100 percent wrong (Score:2 Insightful)
Tater
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Joined: 08/13/2008
MGoPoints: 10358

Bama lost to an A&M team that had one player who could start for Bama.  They almost lost this game to a Georgia team that had one and maybe two players who could start for Bama.  Saban buys a lot of great football players, and then plays not to lose.  It works for him most of the time, but I don't think Saban's scheme would result in more than a 7-5 or 8-4 record if he he was playing teams with ten or more players who could crack Bama's starting lineup.

 

 

 

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December 2nd, 2012 at 12:46 AM | Danielson's hatred (Score:1)
Vote_Crisler_1937
Joined: 11/08/2011
MGoPoints: 640

Of the spread may have something to do w his kid not getting to start at NU ('Cats not Corn') because Barnett left and Walker came in and immediately installed the spread. Danielson quickly became last string behind Kustok etc. and eventually quit. I have no inside info about what Gary thought of that situation but I would think that would fuel a parent's hatred.

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December 2nd, 2012 at 1:37 AM | Wel... (Score:2)
Lazer with a Z
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Joined: 07/13/2011
MGoPoints: 251

I am just going to go ahead and keep hating Gary Danielsen. 

Strive to win. If you lose....win. 

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December 2nd, 2012 at 1:38 AM | Trends (Score:1)
BILG
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Joined: 08/31/2008
MGoPoints: 469

SEC has won 6 straight national titles and dominate other conferences in bowl game head to head record over the past 10 years.  They have the most talent.  

Danielson tries to extrapolate this to scheme as most SEC teams run pro style offense and defense.  I don't think such a view can be proven true, but it also can't be refuted, especially since the style continues to win. 

BILG

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December 2nd, 2012 at 2:49 AM | That's wrong. (Score:1)
morepete
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Joined: 10/23/2011
MGoPoints: 415

Florida won two SEC titles, two national championships and went to a 3rd SEC title game running an offense virtually identical to RichRod and Chip Kelly's. The notion that pro-style is better than spread is impossible to support.

Alabama happens to have the best talent and happens to run something that can loosely be described as "pro-style," though it also uses a lot of spread concepts. But if Bama ran the Oregon offense, they would be just as dominant, if not more so. Danielson just doesn't know what he's talking about.

Moeller v. Excalibur Restaurant -- Fight!

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December 2nd, 2012 at 11:14 AM | Dumb Football comment of the day (Score:1)
BILG
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Joined: 08/31/2008
MGoPoints: 469

Sorry, this is way off.  "Florida won two SEC titles, two national championships and went to a 3rd SEC title game running an offense virtually identical to RichRod and Chip Kelly's."

Do you watch football?  Or is it that if something is labeled a "spread" you just consider it all the same.  Urban Meyer's spread essentially used a QB as a fullback hybrid and involves much less read option run than RR's.  At Auburn Cam Newton ran a passing spread with running elements because he is a mobile QB.  

Danielson was dead wrong about Auburn's "spread" not being good enough to win a championship that year, in their epic comeback game against Alabama.  

However, until you realize that the offenses of RR, Kelly, and Meyer are not virtually identical, and that "spread" is a football term describing a myriad of schemes, your analysis is garbage.

SEC has the best offensive and defensive lineman and win the trenches and therefore win championships.  Nobody is saying you have to line up in a bunch formation with two tight ends to win championships, even that moron Danielson.  

 

BILG

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December 2nd, 2012 at 2:39 AM | that doesn't make sense (Score:1)
mgoO
Joined: 10/11/2010
MGoPoints: 413

considering 3 of the National Title teams referenced ran up-tempo "spread" offenses

I guess the salient point is that Danielson is a tool along with 99% of the commentators out there.

@owenrosen

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December 2nd, 2012 at 2:47 AM | Danielson has no idea what the spread is (Score:2 Normal)
morepete
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Joined: 10/23/2011
MGoPoints: 415

It's just a fact. This is a man who, during a montage of Tebow at Florida once pointed to Tebow as evidence the spread could never win in the SEC. He made similar comments in praise of Johnny Manziel. From what I can tell, both he and Lundquist think there are two plays in football: "The run" and "The pass." Seriously, it's hilarious.

Moeller v. Excalibur Restaurant -- Fight!

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December 2nd, 2012 at 4:15 AM | The irony is that Gary would (Score:1)
Brodie
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Joined: 11/19/2008
MGoPoints: 3454

The irony is that Gary would have prospered in a modern spread offense  

When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing. -- Bo Schembechler

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December 2nd, 2012 at 4:34 AM | Look how far it's gotten Oregon (Score:1)
jblaze
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Joined: 08/29/2008
MGoPoints: 3171

Doesn't he know?

"They're stuck with that quarterback (sophomore Braxton Miller) for the next two or three years, that's fine with me. He throws worse than (Tim) Tebow. - Steve Everitt

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December 2nd, 2012 at 10:18 AM | Zero national championships, (Score:1)
eamus_caeruli
Joined: 11/29/2010
MGoPoints: 546

Zero national championships, Oregon has. Mmmmmm

"Everybody thinks of changing humanity, but nobody thinks of changing himself."                  - Leo Tolstoy

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December 2nd, 2012 at 10:41 AM | Well, that cinches (Score:1)
MGlobules
Joined: 11/17/2008
MGoPoints: 5144

any and every argument about the spread. . . in some minds. 

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