Dan Wetzel says Michigan Owes Chris Webber an Apology
I won't summarize as you can read it for yourselves, below. Your opinions?
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--ncaa--michigan-should-be-apologizin…
Wetzel's points are that Michigan and the NCAA handed down harsh penalties on the players to shift focus.
Michigan had a cozy relationship with Martin, giving him free tickets, a hotel room at the final four and other things.
Michigan also hired Martin's good friend, Perry Watson who was also Jalen's high school coach. Michigan conveniently hired him in 1991 the year Jalen started at Michigan.
Disassociating with the players was an unusual step. UMass did not disassociate with Camby. None of the players who took cash at SMU were forced to disassociate with the program. When I tried to research this last night the only cases I found where players were forced to disassociate were the Michigan case and USC with Reggie Bush.
Does Michigan owe an apology? I don't think so, but I do think Wetzel makes some fairly good points.
I think good points were made by Dan. Ultimately it's Michigan's job to protect the student athletes. And it's a great point on how the 10 year ban focused the blame on the players. Who knows whose idea that really was (Michigan or NCAA).
Maybe you should have said "Wetzel's main point." He says a lot more than just the shift of focus to the players. Other parts of the article are almost laughable.
Dont hold your breath
His article just doesn't make sense. He talks about how the fab 5 and Chris Webber's punishment was unjust and says Michigan should be apologizing yet it was the NCAA doling out the sanctions not Michigan.
The dude clearly wanted to write a controversial story for more hits and I guess it worked.
Michigan self-imposed penalties first, including the 10 year disassociation period.
I remembered the penalty coming from the University. A little research and I realize it was the NCAA that added it.
Sorry.
It really doesn't matter what was self-imposed and what wasn't. Self-imposed sanctions are just schools trying to guess what the NCAA will impose and doing it themselves to get it over with. If we hadn't taken away those four scholarships and banned our 2003 team from the postseason, the NCAA would have.
Yahoo should apologize to its readers for clearly using the term 'Expert' too loosely in Dan Wetzel's job title.
How about if no one apologizes for anything and we honor the Fab Five next year and we all move on withour lives?
I was at the game, row 18, and I am not miffed at Webber for calling the timeout... without him we don't even make it to the game, and second, MICHAEL TALLEY was screaming to call time-out from the bench, and in that moment of being pressed by two guys, it is totally understandable, with no time to think... sure, he shouldve listened to coach during the earlier play stoppage when he said "we have no time outs"... but nonetheless, I not miffed about that, at all, nor should any other Michigan fan.
Ahhh...Michael Talley.
Yeah, the adult me was kidding.
The 15-year old me is not.
In fact, the 15-year old me is still waiting for a personal phone call from Chris asking me and my family to dinner so he can explain the complexities of the situation and express any sports pain that moment caused.
He would then thank us all for being M fans and take us out for ice cream.
I'm waiting for my ice cream, Chris.
Even the adult me.
Dan W. is clearly misinformed or just trying to stir the pot. I am not a huge DB fan but he and Mary Sue Coleman are right on target. I feel bad for the rest of the fab5 who are good guys, want to do the right things,love UM, but will continue to be held back because of Cweb's HUGE ego. Grow up Chris and get this done!! If not, you are old news, will be forgotten soon, and future UM hoop fans will remember you as much as they do Henry Wilmore nowadays...
Doing so would be tantamount to admitting that his own parents share part of the blame, and I bet that Webber isn't going to do that.
What will his next article be? McGary owes Johnson an apology for his lower half being in the way of Johnson's hand?
so I have a hard time seeing Chris as a victim here. Maybe it was wrong of the University to disassociate and basically make Webber a scapegoat but Webber knew he wasn't supposed to take money and he did. The diassociation is a perhaps a mishandling of Webber's mistake but Webber put himself in that situation as did Bullock and Taylor
The dissociation was because he lied to a grand jury...and surely some from M tried to get him not to I would think.... when it gets to a grand jury, then all the BS must stop. Had he been straight about it, I highly doubt there wouldve been any dissociation with him or Rose.
I don't think that's it. Traylor, Taylor and Bullock did not commit perjury and they were given the same 10-year ban as Webber. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it was even our call to make.
The dissociation was because he lied to a grand jury...and surely some from M tried to get him not to I would think.... when it gets to a grand jury, then all the BS must stop. Had he been straight about it, I highly doubt there wouldve been any dissociation with him or Rose.
The calls for apologies in modern America are ridiculous (I'm talking to you every politician with imaginary hurt feelings). Sometimes, an apology doesn't matter. Chris doesn't owe one to Michgan and Michigan doesn't owe one to Chris. Call each other (I bet this has already been done through reps), sit down and slowly let things get back to normal.
I'm a big supporter of Webb and still can understand how people...years ago...would be upset. Today? Still? Look at the picture in that story - with the little kid holding up a sign ripping a mistake Chris made on the court 20 years ago (~15 years before the kid was born). His dad is an asshole. Move on.
If folks want to hold a grudge, hold it against Tom Goss who brought us Brian Ellerbe and the Halo. Our team sucked for so long because of a terrible coaching hire and refusal (by Michigan) to devote resources to the program. That isn't the fault of a high school kid.
is that no one really seems to care if you're actually sorry or remorseful, everyone just wants to see you in your nicest suit say some BS scripted apology into the camera. It's 100% PR and no one seems to mind much.
I'm surprised people aren't demanding that Chris wear a sandwich board with a written apology to every Michigan fan ever for whatever it is they think he did wrong.
Ego gets in the way of too many important things. The sooner we can make this water under the bridge, the sooner it will be. Forgiveness is often rewarded.
Look, I am an avowed Webber fan, have said so many times.
But Webber owes the Univ an apology. Any offense the university did to him was minor in comparison.
If a Dan Wetzel writes a column and no one reads it, will it still be snarky?
Nice try, but Webber knew what he did was against the NCAA rules. Sure, you can argue the relative merit and rights of said rules, but he knew them and broke them. UM suffered, but he went on to a long and fruitful NBA career, and at no point has he seemed troubled by what happened to his alma mater. I have zero sympathy for him.
Plus the handwriting was legible with correct grammar. Tell tale signs that those letters couldn't come from the truck drivers.
... when monkeys fly out of my butt.
So let me get this straight: Wetzel wants Michigan to apologize to Weber for something the NCAA made them do, a situation Ed Martin created, and from which Chris Webber ultimately profited?
Webber was on the dole four or five years before he came to Ann Arbor. I find no moral issue with that choice, as a matter of fact, but that is not something for which Michigan should apologize.
I think it is pretty much fair fucks--nobody should apologize to anyone for anything. Michigan was punished, Webber was punished, for their respective wrongs, which were not transgressions against one another.
So Dan Wetzel doesn't think it's fair that Michigan turned their back on Webber for the damage he did to the University, but going over his column on last season's OSU / Michigan game, he's got nothing but criticism for Ohio welcoming Jim Tressel with open arms.
Are there any journalists out there who have any sense of integrity or is it all just about generating clicks on a website?
The NCAA owes every athlete they have ever expolited an apology, but Michigan does not owe anything to Chris Webber. Webber cost Michigan much more than they ever gained from his two years of majoring in basketball and accepting illegal benefits.
I still feel as I have for over 15 years now: Webber owes Michigan a mea culpa and an apology. Until he shows maturity and contrition, he doesn't belong anywhere near a program that is playing by the rules.
The last thing John Beilein needs is to have one of the cleanest programs in the country sabotaged by the presence of an unrepentant Chris Webber.
The school profitted greatly by the Fab Five's success. They can return whatever tournament money they want because they made so much money in apparel. With no Webber, this team doesn't go to back to back Final Fours and the school doesn't profit as much off of those maize jerseys I still see people in their 20's and 30's wearing.
Webber had nothing to do with the guys who were getting paid in the 80s. He had nothing to do with Traylor, Bullock and Mo Taylor taking money. He also didn't force the school to hire Brian Ellerbee or let their athletic facilities get bypassed by MSU and OSU.
I understand people have tunnel vision when it comes to Webber, but he was just one of many people who comitted errors.
Let's be fair about a couple things. First, talking about guys getting paid in the '80s is hearsay. Bill Frieder may have run a loose ship, but he did not have the kind of cozy relation with Ed Martin that Fisher had. The hiring of his friend Perry Watson seems to have been the point of no return, where Martin went from being a random street agent to a guy connected with our program in particular.
Second, while Webber and the rest didn't cause us to hire Ellerbe, they did set in motion the events that led to Fisher's dismissal. There wasn't much time to hire an outsider and Ellerbe was the only one one staff with no connection to the tainted Fisher regime, so he got the job. It's not like we conducted a nationwide search and concluded he was the guy. Circumstances dictated it.
Also, while we made some nice money during the Fab Five's two years, how much did we make on men's basketball from 1998-2008? How many people bought Michigan jerseys during all those years that we sucked? The guys who took money from Martin bear some responsibility for our horrible decade that followed.
Say what? Whose friend was Perry Watson??? You think he was hired because of friendship? He was hired because he was a great coach, a legend in Detroit. You're throwing out a lot of info, but not much factual. And how exactly did the hiring of a great basketball coach (from Southwestern High) mean that Ed Martin (a numbers guy, not a "street agent") then become connected only to Michigan (and not the many other programs he "sent" kids to)? So when Howard Eisley went to BC was that Ed Martin connected to Michigan only? When Voshon Leonard went to Minnesota, was that Ed Martin too? C'mon man.
Then, the wackiest thing...you say "circumstances dictated" the hiring of Ellerbe??? Wait, Tom Goss, an adult, isn't responsible for hiring that terrible coach? Goss interviewed 36 candidates. 36. That's a "nationwide search". 36 coaches interviewed. And you think he was the "only one not connected to the program".
So, you then put wrong and wrong together to say that the guys who took money from Ed Martin bear responsibility for the Ellerbe era? What? Schools can bounce back from sanctions and it's terrible that we went through that. The kids are responsible for their own actions, but not the actions of the adults who made mistakes with an even larger negative impact on the program.
Also, Frieder is the one that let Ed Martin come into the lockerroom after games and hooked him up with tickets. It is proven fact that Ed Martin was involved with the program before Fisher took over.
Fisher set is own firing in motion when he knew that Ed Martin tried to pay for Louis Bullock's apartment and intervened without reporting the violation to his superior (the AD). You can't defend Fisher if he's complicit in the whole thing.
Michigan merchandise did not take a hit due to the scandal. That Nike deal we signed in 1994 was due largely to the Fab Five's success. We were the first Nike school. And Michigan merchandise, including basketball jerseys, have always been some of the best selling merchandise.
That Nike deal we signed in 1994 was due largely to the Fab Five's success.
Not really. That was when everyone was signing university-wide deals with apparel companies. That first Nike deal actually wasn't that lucrative - it paid us about $1 million a year. OSU actually signed a more lucrative deal with Nike not long after.
I think Rumeal has all but admitted he was taking money at the time.
And while there was no one to take over the program for that season but Ellerbee, there was nothing that said we had to keep him after that season. Hiring him was politics, not good basketball.
This will not be a popular opinion so read a your own risk. No one owes anyone an apology. Chris Webber made millions over his career and is still doing very well. He would have made millions weather he went to Michigan or SVSU. You cannot teach what he has. He was an in-state student that went to the University of Michigan for two years. So everyone arguing that he got 100,000 education is very inaccurate. The going rate for in-state student was about $12,000 around that time. So at most, he got 24, lets say 30,000 in tuition. I guarantee that Michigan made more than that after one game. Yes we "took the banners down", but did the University give the money back that they made of jerseys, t-shirts and memorabilia over that time period? How about the money generated off ticket sales? I dont think they did so other than some bad pub, financially they did very well. I attended undergrad right after the fab five (95-99) so I was there with Bullock and Taylor. I was at the party at the Union and saw them right before they left and got into the accident. If you think the Univeristy didn't know some of the kids were getting money then you are terribly mistaken. If they didnt know, then they were turning a blind eye to it. The players would drive around with $40,000 trucks like it was nothing. Most people dont realize that after Taylor crashed the truck, he got another one a could days later. Not just the great ones got cars either. I remember seeing Travis Conlin in a brand new Eddie Bauer Explorer with girls hanging out the sunroof. I knew quite a few football players as well (one of the few perks of being black on campus..lol), they always talked about how they had access to different vehicles when they needed them. This was normal at UM during the to late 90's. Not saying everyone did it, but alot did.
Does anyone ask what Chris actually did with the money? Everyone that knew him including Mitch Albom stated that Chris was practically broke. What happens is when these guys are close to going pro, they would get money from the Ed Martin's and other agents and they would live like rock stars the last semester on Campus. I remember Braylon Edwards drove a Bentley his last semester!
I am by no means saying that Chris Webber is an angel. What he did was against the rules, and he should be held accountable for his actions, but the University of Michigan by no means is clean either. We all like to put Michigan on a pedestal because we got a very good education there and feel that M can do no wrong. But our Athletic Department like other athletic departments are in the business to make money and fill the arenas. There is nothing wrong with that but we have to be honest. These guys sold ticket..period! I guarantee had Taylor not gotten into the accident, the same practices would still be in place.
People that are upset because he got a free education and you are in dept lets get real. Let me know when people start paying 100.00 a ticket to watch you perform an experiment or do a presentation. There is a reason why there are no minor leagues for Football and Basketball. If they want to get rid of the corruption, allow players to go straight from highschool into the minor leagues like they are allowed to in baseball.
How was Drew Henson able to get millions for playing for the Yankees and still be a quarterback at Michigan?
Fact: The Athletic Department pays out-of-state tuition for every student-athlete, no matter where their permanent residence is.
concerning the whole Fab Five/Fisher era. Well said my man...well said. There are a whole lot of us "MGoblog Users" that either have their heads in the clouds or are just plain ol ignorant to the fact that back in those days, to be a good program the vast majority (Michigan included) felt they had to get their hands dirty.
Me being from Birmingham Alabama, we all saw the exact same thing from the stars of Bama and Auburn football. Athletic Leadership absolutely HAS to know when these things go on. Hell, I even had family members and friends from Detroit and A2 to tell me the same stories you just wrote about concerning UM football and basketball players.
Our beloved University is not perfect. Get over it people!!!!!!!
And Albom was just repeating what Webber told him. If he never took a dime from Martin he still shouldn't have been broke. His parents were doing ok.
And I can't say anything about nameless accusations, but I'm pretty sure Braylon got his Bentley after going pro. Yes, he was still on campus. But you get an awfully good line of credit when you're a projected first round pick. Because I remember when it pulled into town with it. His last semester (which, even if he had been given it, being it was after he was done playing football here, people could give him anything anyway and it not be a violation).