D Zone Article on Urban Meyer and Negative Recruiting

Submitted by Blarvey on

http://www.thedzone.net/2014/07/top-recruit-ohio-state-trashes-michigan…-

The whole piece uses an anonymous source to relay what happened on a recruiting trip to OSU back on May 31, especially Urban Meyer's bashing of UM. I am not familiar with the site so if it is questionable or whatever, feel free to remove this.

Some highlights (emphasis mine):

 

After a standard day of touring, the players and their families were brought into the Ohio State team room for a meeting. In the meeting, head coach Urban Meyer talked to the players directly about the state of Michigan, the University of Michigan, and Michigan State University. Meyer pounded several topics mostly about the University of Michigan into the players and their families’ heads, according to Anonymous. “It was in their team room. There were probably about 70 recruits and family members in there. All the coaching staff agreed with him [Urban Meyer], they loved it,” Anonymous said. “It was basically bashing over and over. They called them ‘the school up north,’ they wouldn’t even call them by their name.” Several topics were brought forward from the coaching staff during the meeting, but Meyer was the leader. “It was really Coach Meyer that was talking bad.
A key point of the meeting was the lack of respect for the Michigan coaching staff. “They talked a lot about how [the Michigan] coaches like to blame losses on the players. And how the Ohio State coaching staff would never do that and accept their part of the loss. How the Michigan coaches wouldn’t accept accountability for something they did wrong.” “They always wanted to pin it on ‘Oh well, Devin Gardner didn’t do this, or Jeremy Gallon didn’t run fast enough on this play, or Taylor Lewan wasn’t blocking hard enough on this play.’ They were saying that the coaches are responsible for that so don’t blame that on the players. They just don’t have good enough coaches.” Paralleling the Michigan coaching staff, was the lack of player development in regards to the “high level” recruits that Michigan gets. “Another point is that the player development, from a standpoint of them having some of the best players in the country and still not being able to win more than seven games, Rose Bowl, or a National Title.”
“They spent a lot of time focusing on Michigan rather than themselves,” Anonymous said. “When we went to Michigan, they didn’t talk about Ohio State at all.”

FreddieMercuryHayes

July 17th, 2014 at 9:18 AM ^

It was a semi-sarcastic comment. But I don't find anything wrong with what Meyer said. As for UM, first two full classes were amazing. Then this last class the staff couldn't even fill the open scholly spots because of the toxic aura around the program, while OSU is going strong. Now a 5-star RB previously committed to UM may be going to OSU. Frankly, just win and recruiting will take care of itself. UM needs to stop putting the gun to its own head and letting Meyer pull the trigger.

Magnus

July 17th, 2014 at 10:19 AM ^

What do you mean by "they couldn't fill the last class"? Every school gets 85 scholarships, and Michigan has 82 accounted for, not including guys who played/have played a lot such as Joey Burzynski, Joe Kerridge, and Ryan Glasgow, who all came to Michigan as walk-ons. Perhaps the coaches wanted to give those three guys scholarships. Perhaps the coaches were satisfied with the players they had. Do you REALLY not think that the coaches could have pulled in another recruit if they had chosen to do so? Usually, there are some end-of-the-cycle offers to fill spots (such as Dennis Norfleet) and poach players, but Michigan didn't do anything like that this year except sending out feeler offers to a couple running backs like Minnesotan Jeff Jones (who didn't qualify).

Trader Jack

July 17th, 2014 at 10:36 AM ^

I think what he's saying is that it seemed like the coaches were saving the last couple spots for recruits (like Hand and McDowell) they thought they would get, even at the expense of other recruits (like Montae Nicholson) that might've wanted to commit. Those spots ended up not being filled when UM missed on big targets at the end. If that's what he's saying, it's a fair point.

Magnus

July 17th, 2014 at 10:46 AM ^

Fair enough. Then there are 120+ other teams out there who "couldn't fill their class" because Malik McDowell and Da'Shawn Hand did not commit to them, either.

As I mentioned above, taking McDowell and/or Hand would require keeping Kerridge, R. Glasgow, etc. off of scholarship. Perhaps those were the guys they deemed worth it. "Well, if we can get McDowell, then __________ will just have to remain a walk-on. That sucks for him, but we have to do what's best for the program."

When Ty Isaac transferred to Michigan, that bumped someone off of a scholarship. One of the nation's top running backs is worth reverting a backup offensive guard to walk-on status. Maybe Montae Nicholson (247 Composite #18 safety, #201 overall) isn't.

Don

July 17th, 2014 at 11:30 AM ^

Which, if it occurs, happened precisely because Al Borges—a friend of Harris's HS coach—was fired.

That would be the same Al Borges you proceeded to slam downthread for "throwing the players under the bus" who undoubtedly contributed to the "toxic aura" you allege surrounds the program.

So make up your mind—do you want Al Borges to remain on the staff so Damien Harris doesn't decommit, or do you want Al Borges fired because he sucked?

aiglick

July 17th, 2014 at 12:28 PM ^

It's fair to say GERG didn't light the world on fire here but he did have a pretty good season with Texas last year. When they promoted him to interim coordinator I thought Texas was making the biggest mistake ever. Instead they actually turned around their season to a degree.

I guess what I'm saying is that it was a team effort to turn in the defensive performances of 2009 and 2010 and that maybe it wasn't entirely GERG's fault for those two years.

Water under the bridge now of course.

 

CLord

July 17th, 2014 at 1:57 PM ^

I sized the two up next to each other and went with Borges as the worst simply because Gerg had more outs.  

1. RichRod was forcing the Gerginator to run a scheme he wasn't comfortable with.  

2. RichRod's quickfire offense lends itself to unbalanced field time for his defenses.  

3. Gerg was saddled with Obi Eze, and the Michigan's DB equivalent of IowaRBHatingGod.

4. Gerg had one less year to form the D as his own.  

5. Borges' offense in his third year achieved historic lows despite occasional sparks of life vs ND and Ohio.  At least RR and Gerg were trendign positive in year 3.

Worst ever - Borges

2nd worst ever - Gergs

Bronze medal - Ron English - On whom I put over 50% of the blame (Carr the other 50%) leaading to the current 6 years dip in Michigan football.  English single-handedly made Armanti Edwards and Dennis Dixon look like all-world spread gods, assuredly impacting AD Martin into having RIchRod be his choice  once the first/second options fell through.

We're still recovering.  But as bad as it's been, at least we've never hired the sleazebags and cheaters Columbus hires.

Mr Miggle

July 17th, 2014 at 3:42 PM ^

Your first point is what does it for me. It was apparent that GERG knew practically nothing about the 3-3-5 when he was canned. He either didn't bother to or was incapable of learning it. My vote is for the former. As far as Obi Ezeh, after he had been replaced by Demens, it was RR who had to intervene after GERG sent him back out to MLB. Maybe GERG would have been competent running his own system, but as far as doing the job he was hired to do, he's the worst ever in my book.

No doubt Borges had a bad year in 2013. He didn't adapt well to the big hole in our offense. He wasn't so bad until then so I don't know where to place him overall. Agree completely with your last point.  

 

 

 

991GT3

July 17th, 2014 at 1:10 PM ^

all this negative talk about Michigan is a direct result of its on field performance. No one will argue the fact the the program is on a downward trajectory and unless there is miraculous turn around this season the criticisims of the program will only grow.

This is despite the fact that because of our past reputation we have recruited as well as anyone and yet that has not translated to success on the field. BH set the standard. Win the B1G championship and beat OSU and MS. We have not met his standards and he needs to look inward.

Finally, diehards supporters of the program need to stop making excuses like youth, depth and bad play calling. This is an organization failure and all must recognize it if we are to fix it. 

uncleFred

July 17th, 2014 at 3:03 PM ^

Not exactly sure what time frame you'd think appropriate to discuss this, but because it's convenient for my argument, I'll use 2007-2013. 

At the end of a 9-4 2007 season which opened with one of the most memorable and disruptive losses in Michigan history and ended with a commanding bowl win, Michigan's head coach retires. Despite the fact that he had indicated to the athletic director he planned to retire after the 2006 season and had only stayed at the request of the AD, the AD seems utterly unprepared to replace his head coach, and a comically bad coaching search is initiated. 

A major coaching change occurs and team goes 3-9 and 5-7 producing the worst two consecutive seasons in something like 60 years. This is not a spiral it's a carpet bombimg. The program didn't "fall" it blew completely apart. Michigan says goodbye to its athletic director.

The 2010 season is 7-6. One can argue that the program has moved beyond the catastrophe of 2008 & 2009. However, without placing responsibilty anywhere, the environment in the program is the most toxic in any living person's memory, if not in history. Recruiting is a mess and retention is a horror show.  So...

There is another major coaching change. The 2011 season, in part because of a statistically unlikely windfall in turn overs, the play of arguably the best center in that season, perhaps the most charismatic QB ever to play at Michigan, and magic with the defense, produces an 11-2 record capped by an ugly bowl win. The toxicity in the program is dramtically reduced. Despite cautions about serious personnel gaps faced in 2012 and 2013 expectations for the immediate recovery of Michigan football are raised to utterly unrealistic levels throughout the fan base. 

In 2012 the team is up and down and key injuries result in an 8-5 season with a close but disappointing bowl game. In 2013 the offense as a whole struggles, the oline is an ongoing tire fire, and the defense allows scores at critical junctures. Fan angst flourishes across the internets. The QB breaks his foot. A true freshman QB gets his first start in a bowl game and the season finishes 7-6. The OC is fired and replaced by a "gold chip" OC snatched from Alabama.

So 9-4, 3-9, 5-7, 7-6, 11-2, 8-5, 7-6. Recuiting has been solid since 2012 and retention simply is not a problem. This is not a spiral. The descent has been arrested since 2010. Significant changes have been made in the staff both in the athletic department and in the football program and within the structure of the program to address problems and issues. These changes directly oppose the contention that there is an unrecognized organizational failure. It may be that these changes have not effectively addressed organizational issues, but those who run the program are clearly aware of past organizational problems and are attempting to address them.

While it can be argued that the program is struggling, and/or that any recovery is taking to long, the claim that the program is going down for the count simply does not jibe with the facts. Nor does it reflect the historical process of previous recoveries in the Michigan football program.

Viewed in the context of the last 50 plus years that I have followed Michigan football, the program, while facing many difficult challenges, is clearly attempting to move back to excellence. It is not clear if Hoke is the guy to get it there, but at this point he's made a great deal of progress rebuilding the foundations required to consistently field a very good to great team year in and year out. He has two years to prove that he can build on those foundations and put a top team on the field. I realize that 2007-2015 is a long time to wait, especially when there is no certainty that 2016 won't bring another coaching search, but that is reality. 

 

bluelaw2013

July 17th, 2014 at 2:59 PM ^

Having worked at number of organizations and played on a number of teams, ranging from world-class great to enraged-Brian-Kelly ugly, I feel qualified to share these three universally-applicable facts:

1) team culture is often a major harbinger of team success;

2) when given options, individuals tend to self-select into teams they find to be culturally compatible with their own personal inclinations; and

3) it does not take many bad apples to limit the synergies inherent to an otherwise excellent culture.

Here, we have a glance into the recruiting approaches of Brady Hoke and Oscar Meyer. You can see where, over time, the differences in their approaches could lead to teams comprised of very different types of individuals and result in very different cultures. And I'm all for it. Give me a team where they build each other up; where they don't criticize or focus on the negatives; where they come together in steadfast support. In other words, give me a team cut from the mold of Bo.

We are finally getting there. We are finally facing a year where we have a critical mass of Brady recruits, such that we can finally enjoy the synergies and benefits of a Bo-styled culture again. And we are going to win this year, and when it's all said and done we'll remember the individualized heroics and fancy stats, but it will be the team that really makes it all come together. A team that started with convincing the right type of team players to individually self-select into our culture.

So kudos to you, Hoke. Let's keep the good ones coming and the bad ones out.

getsome

July 17th, 2014 at 11:58 AM ^

meyer wins and has a rep with recruits for putting players into nfl...thats all he cares about and frankly thats what many top recruits consider.  meyer really does not care if theyre questionable kids off the field as long as they have the talent and put in the work - meyers a questionable dude himself and he knows it, but he gets the job done.  all that matters to him is everyone in the room shows up at the right time and sweats together and gets it done on the field.  if theyre great kids and sick athletes, thats great, it makes everything easier...but hes got no problem recruiting certain attitudes to his teams while using certain styles that hoke might frown upon.  and to this point, hes won big everywhere and likely continues to do so...if its not rape-related or the occasional wrist slap to save face, the ncaa or conferences wont touch it so guys like meyer and sumlin and franklin and richt and fisher etc will continue to do whatever it takes to try to put the most athletic teams on the field.  and most their alumni / fans seem more than happy with it.  um takes a different approach and thats fine...as long as people do not expect um to realistically compete for national titles more than once per decade when the stars align, bc it would take a different approach for um to realistically start/finish in top 5 nationally most seasons in modern era

charblue.

July 17th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^

garbage, it's weird that a coach who used to work with the likes og Greg Mattison and counted on him to recruit one of his best players ever, would turn around and condemn....(sorry, I got carried away with myself). The fact that MSU now gets thrown in there is revealing, considering that its head coach is a virtual clone of Meyer when it comes to Michigan bashing obsession. 

I would say this is perfect bulletin board material for both staff and players. How often do you get such perfect insight into opposing team's recruiting tactics and well-before the conference preseason meeting where this can be all be challenged in a spirited, non-confrontational manner. In any case, I think the lack of respect for the coaching staff is more interesting than the other stuff. 

MGJS SuperKick Party

July 17th, 2014 at 12:37 PM ^

I don't think that the MSU coaches hate us as much as OSU coaches do. I think the MSU coaching staff knows what they need to do, and the direction they are heading and how they can do it without the same recruits. OSU battles us on the same recruits, so they are going to bash us more.

Mark Dantonio said last year, "Just because you like someone in the family doesn't mean you like the whole family." Mark respects our program, but hates it. I feel like he wouldn't bash us to make us look bad. I could be wrong though.

Yo_Blue

July 17th, 2014 at 9:10 AM ^

Not surprised at the bashing.

I am surprised that Meyer doesn't think enough of his program to sell it as is.  If the best he can come up with is "Come to Ohio and get an iPad", then he is missing the bigger picture.  Of course, if the recruits are convinced to make a college decision based on free iPads then have at it.

Decatur Jack

July 17th, 2014 at 11:01 AM ^

Meyer's a scumbag. How can anyone be surprised that he talks shit about Michigan to recruits?

I'm personally more surprised that a coach who won 24 straight games in his first two seasons feels the need to bash a program that is clearly struggling, instead of, you know, brag about being 24-0 for that time and 2-0 against Michigan. If Michigan and OSU were both undefeated and everything, then yeah, I could see the reasoning behind trying to get a few inches ahead. But this? You're 2-0 against Michigan, man. Get some ethics.

GoWings2008

July 17th, 2014 at 9:17 AM ^

F*ck Urban Meyer.

I liked this quote though:  "With all of the talk about rivalry and hatred, Anonymous isn’t impressed with the Buckeye coaching staff that is led by Meyer."

CLord

July 17th, 2014 at 10:45 AM ^

I'll never eat Papa John's again.  It's home to the most narcissistic, self-loving douche CEO of all time, who puts his cosmetically knifed face front and square in all ad campaigns and goes out of his way to show himself throwing touchdowns and performing other athletic feats.  Easily in my top 5 most annoying people in the United States.

Domino's and Little Caesar's 4 life yo.

Magnus

July 17th, 2014 at 10:51 AM ^

Yeah, but you're punishing yourself by eating Little Caesar's. They have the worst chain-restaurant pizza in the land. It tastes like a brand new pair of Asics slathered with Campbell's tomato soup and then whatever came up when Paris Hilton put her finger down her throat.

JeepinBen

July 17th, 2014 at 10:56 AM ^

In something that everyone can hate, he loves to spend lots of money to go to africa and "hunt" sometimes endagered big game.

Also, he's ... "Active politically" which could push you to support or not support based on your own leanings

/walks away slowly

GoWings2008

July 17th, 2014 at 10:58 AM ^

about Little Caesars, but as the old saying goes...Pizza is a lot like sex:  the worst I've had is still pretty damn good.

Personally, I can handle Papa Johns, but I like Dominos better.  My most common practice is to find a couple local non-chain pizza places near my home and be a regular customer.  There's a place with NYC style pizza that my wife and I love.

That said, I really wish we had a Jets pizza down here in the St Louis area...

Jonesy

July 17th, 2014 at 4:08 PM ^

Exactly, once you get past the age of like 25 or 30 chain pizza should be a thing of the past...granted I'm lucky enough to have the zagats #1 rated pizza place a couple miles away but even when I don't go there there are quality non-chain places around.  I feel bad for anyone whose only option is chain pizza.