D-day Morning Open Thread
January 11th, 2011 at 8:15 AM ^
When Rodriguez was hired there were probably 10-20% of fans that disapproved from the beginning and were a derisive thorn in the program's side balanced by 80-90% of fans excited by his overwhelmingly positive credentials.
If Hoke is hired the same thing will happen, but with those numbers flipped for the same reasons.
January 11th, 2011 at 10:11 AM ^
the most aggressive of the 10-20% were people who thought Miles should have been hired. I wouldn't care much about Miles being the choice if not for that, despite his age and baggage. I really don't want those assholes to be able to say "I told you so." Because, unlike them, I will support him because he's the Michigan coach, and not work to undermine him just so I can be proven right.
I don't think there will be the numbers you're talking about if it is Hoke -- after some joking around about it and hurt as Denard likely leaves, most true fans, including Brian, will support him. Again, because he's the Michigan coach, and to hell with assholes who don't get that.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:22 AM ^
Good luck mending a fractired base if he hires Hoke.
January 11th, 2011 at 9:31 AM ^
there will be a faction no matter what, but Miles might win a few games right away at least which would likely get more on board.
January 11th, 2011 at 9:55 AM ^
You don't sound like you'd be part of the solution if that came to pass ...
January 11th, 2011 at 9:01 AM ^
If DB told LM, Well, I have to go back to Mich now and think it over... it's between you and Hoke... then LM is out. At this point, after DB and who knows who else has been to BR, that doesn't even pass the laugh test. LM makes $3.5M/yr in the SEC, has won a MNC and is coming off an 11-win season.
Well, Jack, that CEO position is down to you and that kid in the mailroom we've had our eye on. We'll let you know...
No way. If that's the scenario, then expect a statement from Miles today that he's going nowhere. DB either wants Miles and has him or is waiting for his answer, or he might as well go ahead and hire Hoke.
January 11th, 2011 at 9:59 AM ^
It's too late in the game and this would be the second time in four years UM would be jerking Miles' chain.
It's either sewn up (and I believe Miles wants the job BIG TIME) or UM again can't get over itself and Miles is already inking his extension with LSU.
January 11th, 2011 at 10:18 AM ^
Everyone has become utterly obsessed with this concept, especially since it seemed to be validated by Brandon in his press conference. I think it's gone way too far. Ultimately, Rodriguez didn't lose football games because of a fractured fan base, or even because of a hostile media environment. He lost because he hired Scott Shafer, lost faith in his defense halfway through the year, listened to his assistants and tried to switch back to a 3-3-5, fired Shafter, and hired Gerg Robinson. End of.* Had he done a better job with his defensive assistants and game plan, his 500 yds/game offense would have won sufficient games for any 'fractures' to seem much less significant. The team lost, so many fans remained unhappy.
I think there's a tendency to exaggerate the influence of fan in-figting on fan message boards, and there's damn sure a tendency on behalf of members of the media to push their own significance, but the tired canard perception=reality oversimplifies the issue. Rodriguez pulled in some pretty good recruiting classes despite the existence of a fractured fan base, and by all accounts he would have had another really strong one this year - until the team started losing nearly all their Big Ten games.
I really like Rodriguez, and I do feel bad that he was shit on by a lot of fans, alums, and local media douchebags almost from the moment he got here. But unless the stress from all that is what caused him to lose his sense and hire Gerg fucking Robinson, the fractured fan base had fuck-all to do with his lack of Great Success at Michigan.
* I forgot hiring Jay Hopson. This also added to the suckitude in at least some way. Thans for getting a bunch of recruits to put us in their final three before deciding to stay in the South, Jay! Miss you!
January 11th, 2011 at 10:38 AM ^
I think it's time to put the RR era behind us. It was a great idea, but it didn't work out for a lot of reasons, and very regrettably so for all involved, even us fans who don't really have any skin in the game beyond, you know, our self-identities.
We're going to have a new coach, possibly today, certainly by Friday, and it's time to get behind the program, look forward, don't look back. I'm not saying we need to suspend our powers of critical discernment -- that should be the last thing a Michigan fanbase should do -- but we need to give the new guy and our players a supportive fanbase and environment.
January 11th, 2011 at 7:36 AM ^
January 11th, 2011 at 7:37 AM ^
I’m sure they are going to keep the lid on this until at least they have the Team meeting at 4 today. I think the Team needs to get the complete low down on their new coach before the rest of us get it.
January 11th, 2011 at 7:40 AM ^
tigerdroppings has been down all night. I wonder if LSU put pressure on them to take it down to stop speculation.
January 11th, 2011 at 7:54 AM ^
either the site has been zombie mob rushed into oblivion, or somebody spilled gumbo on the server. Whatever, I don't image much news coming out of them unless a jilted LSU employee starts leaking thart LSU's tiger striped plane is heading to Lincoln.
Which BTW-- could this be a unexpected benefit? We hire Miles, LSU goes hard after Pellini and gets him, Nebraska doesn't have a coach less than 3 weeks before NSD, and has to start a search cold for a HC who will stick to Nebraska tradition (i.e. option football and defense)? Oh and did I mention that Nebraska is in the B1G next year with us in the same division? This may not have been optimal on our end, but there is a scenario where we just may end up allright out of this...
January 11th, 2011 at 8:10 AM ^
... the best CC post yet!
January 11th, 2011 at 10:03 AM ^
the previous month had seen more CC posts like this one, as opposed to what transpired instead.
January 11th, 2011 at 7:44 AM ^
Brady Hoke will need to buy each Detroit media member with U of M ties a case of beer if he is hired. They have been pimping him hard for the job since it has been open. Which based on the Rodriguez era, makes me fear the worst if Les Miles is hired.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:21 AM ^
He's going to have to do the same with all the fans and they still probably won't be right with him until he delivers some wins.
Its a shame, he may or may not deserve the bashing, but Hoke is getting dragged through the mud. That said, as Brandon has said, he needs to listen to his customers.
January 11th, 2011 at 9:57 AM ^
Les actually has a hell of a lot more mud that the media could drag him through than Rodriguez ever did. If Rosenberg and Snyder have their claws out for Miles, they'd have the ability to make things really ugly on a national level.
January 11th, 2011 at 10:10 AM ^
Rosie drinks the blood of unborn dolphins.
January 11th, 2011 at 7:46 AM ^
If the reports are correct (grain of salt theme) that he would accept if offered, why would you say that if you didn't have it in the bag? If Michigan goes in a different direction Les looks like a fool to LSU for wanting to leave and loses his team. Correct??
January 11th, 2011 at 7:59 AM ^
Didn't the report that Miles would accept if offered come from Schad, who was wrong about the buyout? Isn't it possible that someone is deliberately feeding him false information?
From a Baton Rouge Advocate story:
[LSU spokesman Herb] Vincent refuted another report by ESPN’s Schad that LSU was considering lowering or eliminating the $1.25 million buyout Miles’ contract stipulates should he leave for Michigan, saying he didn’t know where that information came from.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:06 AM ^
But the damage is done(one the LSU side). To me the last time Les said he did NOT talk to M (which may or may not be true). This time they talked and he's interested (true or not) how do backtrack that statement. We all know that the press is never wrong and will cover their own when trapped in a corner.
January 11th, 2011 at 10:03 AM ^
They've known since Day One of the Miles Experience he wants (wanted?) the Michigan coaching job.
Only school for which there's a buyout clause in his contract. Job's open, he's gonna put it out there he wants it. He'll either get it or come back to their open arms.
Happens all the time. Izzo just held MSU hostage for about ten days thinking over the Cleveland job.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:21 AM ^
By Les. However it played out last time, I think he wanted the job, and for whatever reason, didn't get it. I'm sure his people are following this closely, and know that Hoke is not going to be a popular choice with the fan base. By letting this leak, he lets all of us know that if his coming back home goes sideways, it is DB's fault, cause he would have taken the job. I'm sure Mr. Brandon is getting plenty of heat now from the old school guys to bring a Bo guy in. Well played Les!
January 11th, 2011 at 7:46 AM ^
I would say that we will find out today through a leak, but I don't think it will come from the Michigan side. With Les meeting last night with LSU I would expect them to leak stuff out of their camp.
Also, LSU has to be in a state of panic right now. If they lose Les they are going to have to get a coach, and do it QUICK. If they don' think Les is coming back I can see some smoke coming in the form of Pelini and Jimbo Fisher contacts.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:08 AM ^
... are you really Jack Swarbrick, and just set up your account while intoxicated?
January 11th, 2011 at 8:13 AM ^
to tumble. Pizza pun, woo.
January 11th, 2011 at 7:46 AM ^
I think the Hoke pimping by the Detroit media just shows how out-of-touch and contrarian they remain. I'm not crazy about Miles, but in a battle between the Mad Hatter and the Hokester, I'll take Miles any day.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:20 AM ^
I'm in total agreement with you!
January 11th, 2011 at 7:56 AM ^
... Les acts inscrutable, so later he could claim he wasn't a candidate, just a trusted advisor to his alma mater.
LSU's Athletic Department publicly says he's "our man" and "really likes it here" but through back channels says it wouldn't hold Les to his total buyout.
Brandon says he won't be rushed but is doing this search 24/7 on an aircraft, perhaps using Money Mayweather as a consigliere:
I think Brandon would rent the Big Chill's B-2 stealth bomber for the search if he could and do a low pass (supersonic) over Columbus when he's bringing the new HC back to A2 for the presser.
And for a certain Detroit sportsradio wad (GFY, MV) who insists that this search shows that Michigan is a "regional program," all I can say is the ESPN sideline reporter during the NC game (Joe Schad) is tweeting about Michigan between plays...
While I was a Brady Hoke guy, I am warming a bit to Les Miles given his awesome record in the SEC. He has lost fewer games in six years than dear old RichRod lost in three, and has four 11+ win seasons over his tenure, more than anyone else in the SEC during the same period. Logic would say he stays, but I think a certain former Michigan HC is exerting a strong pull from somewhere...
Les may be using us like it appears he did in 2007. But who cares, it's awesome theater that's playing out on a national stage in real time.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:09 AM ^
through back channels says it wouldn't hold Les to his total buyout
Who knows for sure, but the reports claiming the above was the case were likely wrong. Times-Picayune story from last night said LSU is working on a possible contract extension for Miles, and as part of the extension, Miles's buyout would be eliminated:
While LSU is working to keep Miles at the school where he has been for six years, substantially increasing his current income of $3.75 million -- one of the highest figures in college football -- isn't an option, especially given the budget crunch at the university.
Instead, LSU officials said, Miles would receive an extension on his contact, which currently runs through 2014 -- with a higher guarantee if he were to be fired before it expires and an elimination of his $1.25 million buyout should he leave on his own.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:23 AM ^
I have a feeling Brandon was using Les to get advice and input - mainly his thoughts on Hoke, and at the same time Les was using Brandon as a means of getting a pay raise. We'll see how it plays out, but I'm thinking the meeting was not an offer, but counsel...which has, no doubt, made LSU a little nervous.
BTW, does Joe Schad have any clue what's going on? It seems this guy is hardly ever accurate with his "inside information".
January 11th, 2011 at 8:43 AM ^
Why would Brandon meet with Miles simply to get advice and "his thoughts on Hoke?" DB would be an absolute fool if he didn't want to speak to Miles about the job itself, and an absolute fool if his focus was more on Hoke than on Miles or others. No, this seems like what it is is--an interview, which is what it should have been. Now that doesn't mean Miles gets the job, but to not consider him would just be ridiculous.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:52 AM ^
It also doesn't mean that Miles would accept an offer, either. It's not clear that Michigan can match LSU's increased offer for an entire staff dollar for dollar. LSU will be a popular choice to not only win the SEC West next year but to win the NC. He's got a loaded team coming back, whereas he would have a rebuilding job of sorts ahead of him in Ann Arbor. Many Michigan fans are doing the same thing they did with the Harbaugh speculation: assuming that Miles is an automatic get for Michigan. I won't be surprised in the least if Miles stays in Baton Rouge.
January 11th, 2011 at 10:04 AM ^
I think people are mistaking the concepts of "unproven" and "terrible" when it comes to Hoke. Would it be (at least) moderately terrifying for Brandon to hire him, given his somewhat mixed record at historically terrible programs? Uh, definitely.
Is it possible that Hoke has what it takes and would be a good coach at UM? I would say yes. So would Gene Chizik.
January 11th, 2011 at 10:09 AM ^
There's no reason to be down on Hoke, no matter how much you want Miles.
I'm all for Miles--but kind of have this "Well, three years ago would have been perfect. Now? I guess" thing--a bit of the malaise?
Maybe Hoke (and I do think that's a real strong possibility) in the end would be the best choice.
Either way--looking good moving forward.
January 11th, 2011 at 11:02 AM ^
flying back and forth across the country (and leave Rogel's plane at Baton Rouge for several days) to consult with Miles? You consult on the phone. You sell the job, interview and negotiate in person.
January 11th, 2011 at 7:49 AM ^
I see whats going on. Leslie and Hoke, (in assistant capacity) will bring together the fractured fanbases, give Les a few years to right the ship at his alma mater, all the while grooming Hoke as the heir apparent.
Meh.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:32 AM ^
Ha I was thinking the same thing last night for some reason.
January 11th, 2011 at 7:50 AM ^
Recruiting dead period ends the 13th JAN and runs till the 30th, for M/LSU/Whoever I think they'll want a coach in place to finish.
January 11th, 2011 at 7:51 AM ^
Does anyone else feel like it's 2008 again, this time without Herbie and with 3 years of dong punches?
January 11th, 2011 at 8:10 AM ^
I'm scared the "Black Cat Herbbie" will screw M up again. But it will be fun to listen to him talk of how he was right all along just three years early. Give'em hell Dez.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:56 AM ^
Yeah, the program may have lost a star or two of *program prestige*and the returning defense is considerably worse than when Rodriguez took over, but yeah, you factor in Denard vs Mallett(who was likely leaving anyway) and the returning team might actually be better...? Take away Mallett and I think they are considerably better.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:00 AM ^
Given those are the choices, then IMO .... there is only one choice. Both are in their 50's, so age doesn't help one or the other. Brady's been the head coach of Ball State & San Diego State (2 non AQ schools). I don't have any information on SDSU, but at Ball State Hoke's only fame came when he had Nate Davis (QB) who is now in the NFL. I actually saw 3 -4 of their games that year (on TV) and I think he is a very average game day coach. Nice guy, loves Michigan ... and Carr and wants the Michigan job.
Les is something like 65 - 16 at LSU over the last 6 years (roughly the same as Urban Meyer at FL). During that time the SEC has won 5 consecutive BCS MNCs ... including one for Les. He recruited against the best and he's coached against the best. Les is an alum and has often stated that Michigan is his "dream job" .... so that's enough of a comparison for me.
Go Blue !
January 11th, 2011 at 7:55 AM ^
Sorry if already posted, but I just woke up and haven't seen this posted anywhere. From the official Michigan football twitter account:
@michigan_fballMichigan Football
edit: oops just noticed a thread for this lower, my baddddd
January 11th, 2011 at 7:56 AM ^
that Hoke might be the better long-term option for the program but after all the Miles rumors of the past 24 hours I think Hoke would devastate the fan base. Everyone seems to be making their own internal peace with LM. So let it be written, so let it be done.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:03 AM ^
and Mr. fullback and multiple tight ends, I hope he doesn't get within 100 miles of A2.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:32 AM ^
Look at the recruits Brady has secured at SD so far...very little talent or upside to bringing any of that with him.
Considering all the talent LM could bring, or maintain the current M verbals, Hoke falls far short of that measure as well.