Good luck mending a fractired base if he hires Hoke.
this week in unintentionally grim-sounding recruiting headlines
Good luck mending a fractired base if he hires Hoke.
there will be a faction no matter what, but Miles might win a few games right away at least which would likely get more on board.
You don't sound like you'd be part of the solution if that came to pass ...
If DB told LM, Well, I have to go back to Mich now and think it over... it's between you and Hoke... then LM is out. At this point, after DB and who knows who else has been to BR, that doesn't even pass the laugh test. LM makes $3.5M/yr in the SEC, has won a MNC and is coming off an 11-win season.
Well, Jack, that CEO position is down to you and that kid in the mailroom we've had our eye on. We'll let you know...
No way. If that's the scenario, then expect a statement from Miles today that he's going nowhere. DB either wants Miles and has him or is waiting for his answer, or he might as well go ahead and hire Hoke.
Everyone has become utterly obsessed with this concept, especially since it seemed to be validated by Brandon in his press conference. I think it's gone way too far. Ultimately, Rodriguez didn't lose football games because of a fractured fan base, or even because of a hostile media environment. He lost because he hired Scott Shafer, lost faith in his defense halfway through the year, listened to his assistants and tried to switch back to a 3-3-5, fired Shafter, and hired Gerg Robinson. End of.* Had he done a better job with his defensive assistants and game plan, his 500 yds/game offense would have won sufficient games for any 'fractures' to seem much less significant. The team lost, so many fans remained unhappy.
I think there's a tendency to exaggerate the influence of fan in-figting on fan message boards, and there's damn sure a tendency on behalf of members of the media to push their own significance, but the tired canard perception=reality oversimplifies the issue. Rodriguez pulled in some pretty good recruiting classes despite the existence of a fractured fan base, and by all accounts he would have had another really strong one this year - until the team started losing nearly all their Big Ten games.
I really like Rodriguez, and I do feel bad that he was shit on by a lot of fans, alums, and local media douchebags almost from the moment he got here. But unless the stress from all that is what caused him to lose his sense and hire Gerg fucking Robinson, the fractured fan base had fuck-all to do with his lack of Great Success at Michigan.
* I forgot hiring Jay Hopson. This also added to the suckitude in at least some way. Thans for getting a bunch of recruits to put us in their final three before deciding to stay in the South, Jay! Miss you!
I think it's time to put the RR era behind us. It was a great idea, but it didn't work out for a lot of reasons, and very regrettably so for all involved, even us fans who don't really have any skin in the game beyond, you know, our self-identities.
We're going to have a new coach, possibly today, certainly by Friday, and it's time to get behind the program, look forward, don't look back. I'm not saying we need to suspend our powers of critical discernment -- that should be the last thing a Michigan fanbase should do -- but we need to give the new guy and our players a supportive fanbase and environment.
Is there a team meeting still scheduled today as previously reported?
I’m sure they are going to keep the lid on this until at least they have the Team meeting at 4 today. I think the Team needs to get the complete low down on their new coach before the rest of us get it.
tigerdroppings has been down all night. I wonder if LSU put pressure on them to take it down to stop speculation.
either the site has been zombie mob rushed into oblivion, or somebody spilled gumbo on the server. Whatever, I don't image much news coming out of them unless a jilted LSU employee starts leaking thart LSU's tiger striped plane is heading to Lincoln.
Which BTW-- could this be a unexpected benefit? We hire Miles, LSU goes hard after Pellini and gets him, Nebraska doesn't have a coach less than 3 weeks before NSD, and has to start a search cold for a HC who will stick to Nebraska tradition (i.e. option football and defense)? Oh and did I mention that Nebraska is in the B1G next year with us in the same division? This may not have been optimal on our end, but there is a scenario where we just may end up allright out of this...
... the best CC post yet!
the previous month had seen more CC posts like this one, as opposed to what transpired instead.
Brady Hoke will need to buy each Detroit media member with U of M ties a case of beer if he is hired. They have been pimping him hard for the job since it has been open. Which based on the Rodriguez era, makes me fear the worst if Les Miles is hired.
He's going to have to do the same with all the fans and they still probably won't be right with him until he delivers some wins.
Its a shame, he may or may not deserve the bashing, but Hoke is getting dragged through the mud. That said, as Brandon has said, he needs to listen to his customers.
Les actually has a hell of a lot more mud that the media could drag him through than Rodriguez ever did. If Rosenberg and Snyder have their claws out for Miles, they'd have the ability to make things really ugly on a national level.
Rosie drinks the blood of unborn dolphins.
If the reports are correct (grain of salt theme) that he would accept if offered, why would you say that if you didn't have it in the bag? If Michigan goes in a different direction Les looks like a fool to LSU for wanting to leave and loses his team. Correct??
Didn't the report that Miles would accept if offered come from Schad, who was wrong about the buyout? Isn't it possible that someone is deliberately feeding him false information?
From a Baton Rouge Advocate story:
[LSU spokesman Herb] Vincent refuted another report by ESPN’s Schad that LSU was considering lowering or eliminating the $1.25 million buyout Miles’ contract stipulates should he leave for Michigan, saying he didn’t know where that information came from.
But the damage is done(one the LSU side). To me the last time Les said he did NOT talk to M (which may or may not be true). This time they talked and he's interested (true or not) how do backtrack that statement. We all know that the press is never wrong and will cover their own when trapped in a corner.
By Les. However it played out last time, I think he wanted the job, and for whatever reason, didn't get it. I'm sure his people are following this closely, and know that Hoke is not going to be a popular choice with the fan base. By letting this leak, he lets all of us know that if his coming back home goes sideways, it is DB's fault, cause he would have taken the job. I'm sure Mr. Brandon is getting plenty of heat now from the old school guys to bring a Bo guy in. Well played Les!
I would say that we will find out today through a leak, but I don't think it will come from the Michigan side. With Les meeting last night with LSU I would expect them to leak stuff out of their camp.
Also, LSU has to be in a state of panic right now. If they lose Les they are going to have to get a coach, and do it QUICK. If they don' think Les is coming back I can see some smoke coming in the form of Pelini and Jimbo Fisher contacts.
... are you really Jack Swarbrick, and just set up your account while intoxicated?
to tumble. Pizza pun, woo.
I think the Hoke pimping by the Detroit media just shows how out-of-touch and contrarian they remain. I'm not crazy about Miles, but in a battle between the Mad Hatter and the Hokester, I'll take Miles any day.
I'm in total agreement with you!
... Les acts inscrutable, so later he could claim he wasn't a candidate, just a trusted advisor to his alma mater.
LSU's Athletic Department publicly says he's "our man" and "really likes it here" but through back channels says it wouldn't hold Les to his total buyout.
Brandon says he won't be rushed but is doing this search 24/7 on an aircraft, perhaps using Money Mayweather as a consigliere:
I think Brandon would rent the Big Chill's B-2 stealth bomber for the search if he could and do a low pass (supersonic) over Columbus when he's bringing the new HC back to A2 for the presser.
And for a certain Detroit sportsradio wad (GFY, MV) who insists that this search shows that Michigan is a "regional program," all I can say is the ESPN sideline reporter during the NC game (Joe Schad) is tweeting about Michigan between plays...
While I was a Brady Hoke guy, I am warming a bit to Les Miles given his awesome record in the SEC. He has lost fewer games in six years than dear old RichRod lost in three, and has four 11+ win seasons over his tenure, more than anyone else in the SEC during the same period. Logic would say he stays, but I think a certain former Michigan HC is exerting a strong pull from somewhere...
Les may be using us like it appears he did in 2007. But who cares, it's awesome theater that's playing out on a national stage in real time.
through back channels says it wouldn't hold Les to his total buyout
Who knows for sure, but the reports claiming the above was the case were likely wrong. Times-Picayune story from last night said LSU is working on a possible contract extension for Miles, and as part of the extension, Miles's buyout would be eliminated:
While LSU is working to keep Miles at the school where he has been for six years, substantially increasing his current income of $3.75 million -- one of the highest figures in college football -- isn't an option, especially given the budget crunch at the university.
Instead, LSU officials said, Miles would receive an extension on his contact, which currently runs through 2014 -- with a higher guarantee if he were to be fired before it expires and an elimination of his $1.25 million buyout should he leave on his own.
Why would Brandon meet with Miles simply to get advice and "his thoughts on Hoke?" DB would be an absolute fool if he didn't want to speak to Miles about the job itself, and an absolute fool if his focus was more on Hoke than on Miles or others. No, this seems like what it is is--an interview, which is what it should have been. Now that doesn't mean Miles gets the job, but to not consider him would just be ridiculous.
It also doesn't mean that Miles would accept an offer, either. It's not clear that Michigan can match LSU's increased offer for an entire staff dollar for dollar. LSU will be a popular choice to not only win the SEC West next year but to win the NC. He's got a loaded team coming back, whereas he would have a rebuilding job of sorts ahead of him in Ann Arbor. Many Michigan fans are doing the same thing they did with the Harbaugh speculation: assuming that Miles is an automatic get for Michigan. I won't be surprised in the least if Miles stays in Baton Rouge.
I think people are mistaking the concepts of "unproven" and "terrible" when it comes to Hoke. Would it be (at least) moderately terrifying for Brandon to hire him, given his somewhat mixed record at historically terrible programs? Uh, definitely.
Is it possible that Hoke has what it takes and would be a good coach at UM? I would say yes. So would Gene Chizik.
flying back and forth across the country (and leave Rogel's plane at Baton Rouge for several days) to consult with Miles? You consult on the phone. You sell the job, interview and negotiate in person.
I see whats going on. Leslie and Hoke, (in assistant capacity) will bring together the fractured fanbases, give Les a few years to right the ship at his alma mater, all the while grooming Hoke as the heir apparent.
Ha I was thinking the same thing last night for some reason.
Recruiting dead period ends the 13th JAN and runs till the 30th, for M/LSU/Whoever I think they'll want a coach in place to finish.
Does anyone else feel like it's 2008 again, this time without Herbie and with 3 years of dong punches?
I'm scared the "Black Cat Herbbie" will screw M up again. But it will be fun to listen to him talk of how he was right all along just three years early. Give'em hell Dez.
Given those are the choices, then IMO .... there is only one choice. Both are in their 50's, so age doesn't help one or the other. Brady's been the head coach of Ball State & San Diego State (2 non AQ schools). I don't have any information on SDSU, but at Ball State Hoke's only fame came when he had Nate Davis (QB) who is now in the NFL. I actually saw 3 -4 of their games that year (on TV) and I think he is a very average game day coach. Nice guy, loves Michigan ... and Carr and wants the Michigan job.
Les is something like 65 - 16 at LSU over the last 6 years (roughly the same as Urban Meyer at FL). During that time the SEC has won 5 consecutive BCS MNCs ... including one for Les. He recruited against the best and he's coached against the best. Les is an alum and has often stated that Michigan is his "dream job" .... so that's enough of a comparison for me.
Go Blue !
Sorry if already posted, but I just woke up and haven't seen this posted anywhere. From the official Michigan football twitter account:
that Hoke might be the better long-term option for the program but after all the Miles rumors of the past 24 hours I think Hoke would devastate the fan base. Everyone seems to be making their own internal peace with LM. So let it be written, so let it be done.
and Mr. fullback and multiple tight ends, I hope he doesn't get within 100 miles of A2.
Look at the recruits Brady has secured at SD so far...very little talent or upside to bringing any of that with him.
Considering all the talent LM could bring, or maintain the current M verbals, Hoke falls far short of that measure as well.
I guarantee that Hoke at some point will be within 100 miles of Ann Arbor this upcoming year.
he gets the Stanford job now that Peterson has turned it down.
I can't see any way for brandon to sell Hoke at this point to the fan base. He may get the Carr contingent on his side with hoke, but the fans and the Bo contingent, plus if there is any contingent left that supported RR would all be hopping mad.
Time for Brandon to sit Carr down and tell him, Miles is in, if you don't like it, if you can't support it, you are out.
Draper should be out regardless.
a tough conversation to have but at this point I totally agree. If Carr's not "all in" then he can stay on the outside of the program. DB's a seasoned CEO, I'm sure he'd be able to handle laying down the law to Lloyd.
They already named Brian Townsend Assoc. Athletic Director of Basketball (which Brian already was) AND FOOTBALL (which Draper is/was). I think this is another one of Brandon's "firings" (i.e. telling the employee you have X number of months to find a new job).
Isn't Carr already out? He's not formally involved with the program anymore is he?
Regardless, I hope Brandon doesn't have the same failure of imagination that so many fans do. Hoke has never had the geographical or institutional recruiting advantages that Miles has had. I'm not saying he could definitely recruit as well but nobody can say he definitely can't. The guy is loved by former players, coaches, media and generally anybody who knows him. He loves Michigan. If he doesn't deserve the job he certainly does at least deserve respect.
As we have seen, Brandon likes to do things on the large scale (night game, Big Chill, HD screens). That said, don't be surprised if both Miles and Hoke come to Michigan. Miles will be HC and Hoke the DC and coach in waiting. Further, I think the new staff will be a bit of a reunion.
Hoke will come because he'll be an in-house hire whenever Miles retires and no one - assuming Michigan gets back to winning - will question his becoming the HC. This isn't San Diego State. And since Brandon is willing to pay this time around, I don't see Hoke taking much of a paycut as DC if at all. I believe F. Jackson will be retained, and maybe Soup and a few other former Michigan coaches will be brought back. Brandon, at the end of the day, will attempt to avoid the external process to find Miles' successor. Brandon is setting this up perfectly.
I also wonder if LSU's willingness to pay part of Miles' buyout has something to do with him providing notice to terminate BEFORE he actually signed the Michigan contract. If so, the reduction could be related to an agreement to leave some of his old staff (which is possible because Hoke is coming), not contact recruits once he leaves (they could still contact him), etc.
I can't imagine that this coaching announcement will be a normal one. This is Brandon we're talking about.