maybe Gardbinson would only throw to Roundgallon once in the endzone instead of twice.
Clock stopped, mission accomplished.
maybe Gardbinson would only throw to Roundgallon once in the endzone instead of twice.
Clock stopped, mission accomplished.
If you look what he did with the name of the QB, in addition to the WR, it makes sense.
Except I would have expected Gallon to be first given the order of the QB... so
With no timeouts? Wrong, Hoke would've kicked. If you want precedent, see last years Northwestern game.
But there was more time in this situation. In the NW game, there was only something like seven seconds left. Here, there were 18 seconds. I think Hoke may have taken one quick shot at the endzone. I don't think he'd have called any kind of a running play (including a kneel), though.
QB kneels at 16 seconds ( a little akwardly as he get hits by his own lineman).
More importantly, head ref signals down at 11 seconds.
Obvious delay of game penalty, obvious ref screw up. Shouldn't take 11, yet alone 16 seconds to spot a ball.
I go to Wisconsin and madison is currently erupting in rage. It's plain and simple; laying on the ball for 10 seconds is a delay of game penalty. It is unacceptable to not enforce a blatant and clear rule in the most crucial moment of the game. Unacceptable.
Karma for what? Fans bitching that her husband left?
Madison hates you, Jen.
enjoy Arkansas...besides, what did they do for you, except give your husband a job...and your ugly!
but Stave was standing 3 yards back telling his team to get set with 3 seconds on the clock. If they had been at the line ready with 10 seconds left and the foolishness with marking the ball ready to play was still going on, ok, but Wisconsin didn't even try to line up until 1-2 seconds were left. This one is 80% on Wisconsin, 20% on the refs.
yep, Stave is busy arguing with the refs because none of them know what the hell they called.
Wisconsin earned the refs incompetence. Fully agree.
with ASU player laying on the ball for 10 seconds. Also if you look at the ref he was actually telling Wisconson players to wait to get over the ball, if I was the Wisky center I would have been tempted to snatch the ball right from the ref.
what if Wisconsin wins out. Holy crap
Interesting that the Arizona State guy sat on the football to run the clock. A very similar situation took place in 7th ranked Michigan's win over unranked Notre Dame in 1999. At the end if the game, jarious Jackson passed to bobby brown to take the lead, but a controversial taunting penalty forced them to kick from way back and Michigan marched down and A Train put us up. If I recall correctly (going on memory here), ND had another chance to score, but on a hairy play as time ran out and chaos all over the place, a Michigan linebacker squatted over the football to hide it and drain more seconds off the clock.
By the way, here is brown talking about that play, the "moose imitation penalty", the apology letter he received from the ref, and the entertainment company he named "excessive celebration".
Don't blame the officials for Bob Davie's consistently bad clock management.
My recollection from that game is that your team foolishly threw over the middle of the field, despite having no timeouts, and couldn't line up for the next play in time.
I agree on that. I'm certainly not a notre dame fan. True Blue here. Just being honest that I thought a Michigan player squatted over the ball in that game.
I'm not sure why you are pointing out what a Michigan player has done in the past has anything to do with what happened to Wisc. Anyone who is blaming anyone except for the refs is a moron, players are out there to win games, coaches are out there to win games, refs are out there to make sure everyone is doing it within the confines of the rules. Want to take a guess on who failed?
College football everybody.
(or whatever its called on SI.com) because I don't have the internet speeds to stream. The final score showed up, and I thought it was a glitch that Wisco didn't at least try to kick the field goal--for the win.
Damn shame what happened there.
just awful. nobody deserves to lose like that
Wisky did or didn't do I have no idea what was going through the minds of the officials. I mean they should know Wisky needed to spike it quickly, but yet they were acting with the same urgency to spot the ball that you would see in the middle of the second quarter. That is just mind boggling.
I am also highly suspicious about them being Pac 12 refs.
I'm in Tempe for the night and nobody here understood. Just pure craziness. I think I witnessed either the worst officiating or worst clock management or both of all time.
It looked to me like when he went to kneel-down, he hit his lineman's leg, preventing his knee from touching the ground. He then put the ball down, and the ASU player jumped on it, thinking that it was still a live ball. I'm not sure how you can fault the guy for laying on what he thought was a loose ball. I don't believe he was doing it to intentionally prevent Wisconsin from being able to snap it, like some people are claiming.
And of course, ESPN failed to show a replay of the attempted kneel. Good job, good effort, WWL.
At first I thought Wisconsin got hosed, but than when I watch the replay I see the QB over talking to the referee, he never go to the line of scrimmage in time to spike it. The confusion was his fault and either way he should have been at the line of scrimmage ready to spike the ball not talking to the referee. Even if the other ref had gotten out of the way, they would not have got the snap off in time. Major screw up by the QB.
But there still should have been a delay of game penalty called on ASU.
Anytime a B1G team plays on the west coast with PAC-12 refs they are going to get this type of treatment. Unlike the idiots who do our games, the PAC 12 officials view themselves as an extension of him field advantage and will knowingly and purposely stick it to us each and every game they can.
If Bo was still around you could ask him-he'd tell you the same.
Crap like this is why I never want Michigan to play an away game on the West coast ever again. It happens EVERY time you play a Pac 10/12 team. The refs cheat so bad for their home conference teams that it just isn't worth scheduling them.
If Stave was trying to spike the ball, it seems like he certainly did it wrong by the rules. He should have just done it under center as normal and after the snap rather than roll out a few feet and realize that this is what he wanted to do / was supposed to do. Where he was, he really should have just taken the knee at that point (but I will say it isn't clear that he did anything other than put the ball on the ground, which would make it a fumble in this scenario), but yeah, the play was whistled dead at about 0:13 or so and nobody in a striped shirt seemed to realize it.
He wasn't trying to spike it with 18 seconds left. (There was no need - on the previous play, the UW receiver had gone out of bounds.) He was trying to center the ball for the field goal (and possibly burn a bit of clock as well).
Stave didn't clearly kneel down. It looked like he tapped the ball on the ground, then dropped it which is a fumble. Too bad. If you don't want a stupid result, don't make a stupid half-assed play. If I were the ASU defender, I would've jumped on the ball too.
This isn't true though, there are plenty of angles that show he took a knee and then placed the ball down. It wasn't a fumble it was Stave giving himself up, why do people keep insisting that he fumbled?
Edit: pic now included that show his knee clearly down, it's posted earlier in the thread as well.
While Stave should have been a little more proactive kneeling down and then handing the ball to the referee, the officiating royal screwed up by allowing the ASU DT to sit on the ball and then, once it was clear Wiscy was trying to get set, not spot the ball properly. I'm usually not one for filing appeals for poor officiating, but this was a rather obvious flub that directly cost Wisconsin a chance to win the game.
Otherwise they should have stopped the clock for change of possession shortly after the ASU player fell on the ball.
Wisconsin and Stave only have themselves to blame. They didn't have a sense of urgency, weren't focused, or whatever you want to call it. The referees could have acted faster, but Wisconsin and Stave had control of the situation at 18 seconds and they were too casual on the play. You can't count on the referees to do what you think they are "supposed" to do.
I don't blame the ASU player at all for falling on the ball. He obviously thought it was a fumble. Other wags of my finger:
(1) The refs for not setting the ball immediately after whistling it down, even if it was debatable whether Stave actually put a knee down. The ump needs to get the ASU player off the ball right away, otherwise whistle him for delaying the game.
(2) Wisconsin players for not immediately setting up their offense for the next spike. It's almost as if they all thought the clock had stopped. Collective brain fart on their part. They all needed to be on the line ASAP. Instead, they all had panic looks on their faces w/ 2 seconds left as they hustle to line up. Why didn't they line up at 10 seconds?!
(3) Wisconsin coaches. Seriously. Why even risk this situation at the end of the game w/ no timeouts. Take a shot at the end zone with the previous play or kick the FG. I vote for kick the damn FG and not risk a sack.
Wisconsin fans moaned about Bret's penchant for late game time mismanagement. They did get screwed by the refs, but the coaches and players both deserve some blame for this debacle, too.
He was standing over the ASU DT for a good 5 seconds just politely waiting for him to give him the fall. Absolutely should've been delay of game on ASU
Even if he did not take a knee isn't the play dead if you touch the ball to the ground while holding it?
Nope part of your body like a knee or elbow has to touch the ground to stop a play. Unless you're making a catch and the ball hits the ground while in your hands (Similar to what happened to Calvin Johnson last week)
Isn't there some degree of intent though, with an intentional kneel down? Stave "gave himself up". In the NFL, "taking a knee" shouldn't even make you down, since there's no contact. But there's special allowance for an intentional kneel.
Spiking should be intentional grounding - but there's a special rule for it. And consider fair catches, where any wave like motion is considered a signal. Doesn't taking a knee fall into the same category?
Denard did this vs MSU a few years back.
So much fail, so little time.
Refs may have fucked up, but what was stave doing not getting ready to spike the ball? As soon as he took the "knee" he should've lined up his offense to spike the ball immediately. Not sure why he stepped back in the first place, total amateur hour
sorry for double post
Breaking it down:
1. As far as I can tell Stave never took a knee. He rolled left and laid the ball down on the ground.
2. I don't know if laying the ball down like that is the same as a kneeldown but my guess is probably not. If you recall the famous fumblerooski play that's how the QB gave the ball to the OL -- it was treated like a fumble recovery HOWEVA the fumblerooski is illegal now so who knows?
3. The ASU players treated it (understandably) like a fumble, so you can't flag them for delay of game.
4. That does not excuse the refs from getting the call right. They should have huddled, figured out what happened, decided on a ruling, and applied it, resetting the clock if necessary. As badly as Stave screwed up (and I'm 98% sure this is ultimately all on Stave for not taking a knee or spiking the ball) for them to walk off the field the way they apparently did was inexcusable.
The refs emphatically whistled the play dead before ASU decided to jump on the ball. The ASU player knew damn well what he was doing, and it wasn't trying to recover a fumble.
Upon further review -- had the sound down and didn't hear the whistle. You're right. The whistle blew before the ASU player fell on the ball, so there wasn't a fumble recovery. The delay of game is a closer call -- was he trying to stall or was he just confused like everyone else? -- but probably because players are supposed to stop when the whistle goes. At the very least ASU shouldn't have been rewarded for it. My real main points still stands: The refs should have taken time to get the call right. And what they probably should have done was reset the clock to about 10-15 seconds and let Wisconsin spike the ball.