Corners Next Year?
I looked through the list of threads to see if this topic had been mentioned earlier, and couldn't find it anywhere. I apologize if i missed it and this is just being repetitive, but with Warren "heavily leaning towards NFL", what does our secondary look like now? This would be my guess if (however unlikely it is) he does stick around:
CB1: Warren
CB2: Turner
FS: Woolfolk
SS: Emilien/Kovacs/M. Williams/Others if all three struggle
So now what do we do? Obviously this pretty much guarantees Turner a starting spot at corner this year, but do we keep Woolfolk at corner or gamble with a freshman, or someone who got perpetually beat last year, like JT Floyd. And if we keep Woolfolk at corner than who plays safety? I'd say Woolfolk stays at corner and there are several viable options at either safety position: Christian, MRob, Furman(if we get him), Kovacs, Emilien, Williams, Floyd. Than they're are several wild card defensive backs who could factor in too, including freshman if they don't redshirt (Ray Vinopal, Carvin Johnson, Terrence Talbott, Courtney Avery, Cornelius Jones) and others (Adrian Witty, Thomas Gordon, Teric Jones? sorry if i'm leaving anyone out) Thoughts?
December 5th, 2009 at 11:33 AM ^
I'd say your grasp on those positions is pretty accurate.
But Furman will be a linebacker, not a safety.
December 5th, 2009 at 11:44 AM ^
isnt he just short of 200ibs and runnin a 4.4? id like him on safety but they said the same of hawthorne and he hasnt moved so who knows
December 5th, 2009 at 12:32 PM ^
I read somewhere that Furman plays DE in high school and has never really played in coverage.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:47 PM ^
he plays safety, linebacker, and running back for his team
December 5th, 2009 at 1:00 PM ^
That's not entirely accurate. Brandin Hawthorne was a linebacker in high school, and is a linebacker in college. Hawthorne is undersized for the position (I think he's pushing 185...), and does not run a 4.4 by any means.
Furman has almost exclusively rushed the passer in high school, whether at the linebacker or DE spot, but he projects to a college safety or linebacker. The 4.4 speed, 200 lbs athlete with a "football player" attitude is exactly the type of player RR wants to recruit on D. If this kid commits to Michigan, we should all be pretty excited.
December 5th, 2009 at 1:08 PM ^
Not that it's necessarily accurate, but Hawthorne is listed at 198 on the roster.
That's still really undersized, just pointing it out.
December 5th, 2009 at 11:56 AM ^
the FS and SS roles are reversed (m-rob is starting off at FS for instance) so woolfolk should be slotted at SS
December 5th, 2009 at 11:36 AM ^
I thought this post was gonna be about Coner. So not only am I unable to read, I had to be reminded about our dire secondary situation instead of hearing about Coner's album release scheduled for mid next year.
December 5th, 2009 at 11:38 AM ^
It's not on the board, but on the mgo.licio.us links
http://burgeoningwolverinestar.blogspot.com/2009/12/what-warren-less-de…
My quick answer: we'll struggle at DB, just like we did this year, even with Warren. The hope has to be the LB play improves, DL & DB stays the same, giving us a slightly improved defense overall. Not unreasonable, but not certain with the youth we have in the backfield (albeit, now at least we have scholarship level talent depth there) and on the line (though the line has more experience to go with the talent; the problem is losing a superstar like Graham). I can't see how LBs will get worse.
December 5th, 2009 at 11:49 AM ^
I think Woolfolk and Turner would be our two starting corners with Christian and Avery backing them up. Personally, I think Woolfolk is best suited at CB.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:05 PM ^
I agree that Woolfolk is best suited at corner. However, best suited does not trump need in this case. We have a gaping hole at safety, and now a boatload of talented (though very young) corners. We have a dire need at safety. Remember we started a walkon freshman who did not even make the '08 squad. Assuming DW goes pro, then whichever position Woolfolk does not play will be awful in 2010. I really hope Marvin Robinson is the prodigy everyone used to think he was at safety so Woolfolk can stay at corner, but no matter how you look at it, we will have multiple freshman starters in the defensive backfield.
This team needs DW back. Badly. If he comes back and allows Woolfolk to move back to safety, then the secondary might be (gulp) above average.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:26 PM ^
After reading Jonathan's Chait's article on Rivals about our defense's downfall, I really hope Woolfolk doesn't remain at corner.
http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1020054
Obviously, Williams seeing the field was more of a negative factor than Woolfolk changing positions, but still, we did better with Woolfolk at safety.
December 5th, 2009 at 11:52 AM ^
Furman is just short of 200 lbs., so he's smallish, but he has a good frame to add some weight. I would not be surprised to see him up around 225+ by the time he leaves Michigan. Steve Brown was 210-215 this year, and Furman is a couple inches taller than Brown.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:06 PM ^
When Turner was getting recruited, there were a lot of questions about whether he would play corner or safety in college. I wouldnt be shocked to see him on the field this year at safety if the coaches decide they have other good options to play corner. I don't know if Cullen Christian will be good enough to see the field as a true freshman, but he also could compete at corner or safety. Mike Williams and Kovacs could improve and hold onto their spots, or be replaced by one of the guys already on the roster (Vlad) or one of the guys coming in.
Basically what I'm saying that the backfield is anybody's guess and we probably won't know what it is going to look like until the day of the UConn game. Woolfolk, Turner, and Christian all could play either position depending on what combination gives Michigan the best chance to win.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:11 PM ^
While I disagree with BWS' downplaying of the loss of Warren (again, Kiper has him as the #2 CB in the draft behind Joe Haden. He's going in the 1st-3rd if he enters, and I really can't think of a game where he was just getting killed. Yes, he'll give up some catches, but most CB's will when QB's have 5 and 6 seconds to sit in the pocket), I do agree that overall the secondary will not likely be worse/much worse than it was this year. Mainly because it almost can't be.
Obviously an impoved pass rush and LB play would help a ton. Those UFR coverage metrics seemed to end up mainly on the shoulders of the awful LB/safety play. And an improved pass rush would obviously help the secondary as well.
Unfortunately, I can't imagine a greatly improved pass rush with BG gone. It will likely be worse actually. The LB play may be better, although if a certain position coach that shall remain nameless is really as bad as most of us think, that one may be a lost cause as well.
I'm hoping to see some improved safety play, and better awareness overall with a second year in the system. I can't see any part of the defense being significantly better in '10, but hopefully the staff can mitigate the losses somewhat and at least show the potential for improvement in 2011.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:17 PM ^
First, warren is as good as gone.
Second, there's still a lot to be decided before signing day.
Third, if i had to guess...
SS: Woolfolk/Emilien, Williams, *Jones, *Vinopal
FS: Gordon/Robinson, Kovacs, VanSlyke, *Johnson
CB: Turner, Floyd, Rogers, *Talbott
CB: Christian, Jones, *Avery, *Witty
...should be an interesting battle at SS between Woolfolk and a healthy, barwis-ized Emilien.
...should be an interesting battle at FS between non red shirted, barwis-ized Gordon, and early enrollee Robinson.
...Kovacs, Williams, and VanSlyke should all become depth-fodder, never to be seen on the field again, unless its Kovacs at SLB.
...non red shirted, barwis-ized Turner is one of our starting CB's.
...should be an interesting battler between Floyd and Christian as our second starting corner.
*-r.s.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:29 PM ^
Just curious, why is Prison Abs Gordon so high on your depth chart? I haven't really heard much about how he looked in camp or practices. Or is it based on more of a gut instinct?
December 5th, 2009 at 1:01 PM ^
i cant imagine that he or robinson could be worse than kovacs. thats basically what im going off of. i heard rich rod mention him as a rs guy that was showing a lot of promise a while back also. it'll probably be robinson there, eventually.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:37 PM ^
Am I crazy? I thought Justin Turner redshirted............
I'd also say that alot of people really seem to want/think that a bunch of true freshmen/red shirt freshmen are going to be starters or primary backups next year at our weakest positions. I know we all want to think that this is going to happen and these youngs guys are going to dominate and cure all the ills. But I just don't see it happening. At least a couple of guys are going to keep starting spots, and some of these freshmen just aren't going to be physically/mentally ready to start. We may want to start tempering our expectations now.
December 5th, 2009 at 1:02 PM ^
yeah, 1 or 2 guys...woolfolk, if he can beat out emilien, and floyd if he can beat out turner. not a chance in hell kovacs starts again.
December 5th, 2009 at 1:17 PM ^
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December 5th, 2009 at 12:19 PM ^
I would really like to see what Gordon is capable of. He has limited experience at safety so maybe all he needed was a solid year of college coaching at the position before he was ready to play. He is a good athlete and the coaches went out of their way to praise him on more than one occasion.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:32 PM ^
I think we've discovered another k06em01...
December 5th, 2009 at 12:49 PM ^
I cannot understand why some of you continue to list C. Jones as a DB. We have absolutely no depth at QB with only four on the roster next year and that is including the two incoming freshmen. If something happens to Tate we would be down to Denard, D.G., and....?. This kid is a QB for now and until such time as we establish some depth at the position and/or he does not pan out.
CB: Turner, Christian, Witty and Grimes in that order with Floyd as back up (Way back). Talbott and Avery are less physically mature and are surely red shirts.
S: Woolfolk, Vlad, M-Rob, Williams, Gordon, with only Troy assured of starting. Maybe Carvin Johnson gets a shot - he looks like a real force in the secondary.
I also think Teric Jones gets moved back to RB as our depth there is scary after the injury to V. Smith, and Jones was less than impressive at DB although he showed toughness and a great burst on special teams.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:58 PM ^
the last time Teric Jones played RB was at Cass Tech. He was recruited as a slot and asked to be switched to CB. Nevertheless, I like your point here. The V. Smith injury could spell very bad news since Shaw is not going to be an every down RB. I like your idea. Give Jones a shot. He's going to be buried at CB anyways.
December 5th, 2009 at 1:04 PM ^
your wrong about QBs
We have Tate, D-Rob, DG, and Jack Kennedy, to name a few
December 5th, 2009 at 1:06 PM ^
1) cjones said hes coming in as a db.
2) tate, gardner, robinson, sheridian (back as a walk on)...is 4 qbs that would play before jones next season.
3) floyd started against ohio state as a corner...yet hes going to get beat out by a true frosh 2 star?
4) smith is going to be back by the summer. still, shaw, toussaint and white being the only guys there in the spring, you might be right.
December 5th, 2009 at 1:18 PM ^
Michael Cox? I'd love to see him get more snaps. I love the way he runs, although we've only seen him against weak competition. I'd actually rather see him than Shaw.
Shaw reminds me of Carlos Brown a bit. Great speed, great receiver. Bad vision, doesn't break tackles, not a good blocker. The reason Smith looked so much better against OSU was not better blocking IMO.
So basically we have 4 RB's for spring, plus 2 other guys listed at RB that will never see the field. I'd say there's little chance Jones gets switched back to RB.
December 5th, 2009 at 4:50 PM ^
of the few cases where I can say more Cox would be a good thing.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:50 PM ^
M Defensive backfield of my 2010 dreams (everyone living up to their potential)
CB: Warren plays like senior all american
CB: Turner plays like the 5* talent he is
Nickel CB: Christian
Deep Safety: Woolfolk makes plays with blazing speed
Box Safety: M.Robinson plays better than Williams
4th in B11Ten in pass efficiency D
More probable (Warren Leaves):
CB:Woolfolk plays solidly
CB:Turner shows off his talent, but plays like a freshman at times
Nickel CB: Christian
Deep Safety: Kovacs or a Frosh
Box Safety: Mike Williams again
9th in the B11Ten in PED
December 5th, 2009 at 1:04 PM ^
Looks good, except, I think everyone learned this year that Kovacs can play well as long as he isn't asked to defend the pass. Deep safety is not the position for him.
December 5th, 2009 at 1:07 PM ^
and that warren isnt coming back.
December 5th, 2009 at 4:53 PM ^
we should neg the hell out of this guy for talking about depth charts...shouldnt we???
December 5th, 2009 at 6:00 PM ^
Of the cornerbacks coming in 2010 I am most intrigued by Adrian Witty. Considering he will go through spring ball, has very good speed and the coaches spoke highly of him while he was practicing with the team this summer, he may be more ready than any of the other 2010 corners to play next year.
December 5th, 2009 at 6:01 PM ^
him or christian...christian has peeeeerrrrrrrfect technique.
December 5th, 2009 at 6:13 PM ^
I just think the six month head start Witty will enjoy might give him the edge. I know I will be a minor in this thought, but I think a secondary with Kovacs, Williams, Turner and Woolfolk might be better than the '09 secondary. This of course assumes William, Kovacs and Woolfolk improve between now and September.
I don't see Kovacs starting every game next year, but he will be improved from last year and we can surely use his sure tackling vs teams like MSU, Wisconsin and other run dominate teams.