He is bringing up how Hoke was gruff and silly sounding and got no criticism and RR did.
Which is true.
He is bringing up how Hoke was gruff and silly sounding and got no criticism and RR did.
Which is true.
I am sorry if I am not drinking the Kool aid yet. I really want Hoke to succeed but i wasn not as impressed as everyone else at his press conference. People criticzed RR for being inarticulate-Hoke to me was extremely inarticulate. He seemed to of course say all the right things but to me it was very scripted. I am also not impressed at the idea of Borges as coordinator. I am cautiosly pessimistic.
and after all the "Thank You's" the rest of that came from his heart.
OT: So far, I'd give Hoke a really high "intangibles" score. That counts for something.
On the subject of Borges, though, a lot of BoMoCarr fans (like the guy whose name rhymes with YAHOO) were trying to sell dissenters on the idea that Hoke could be a figurehead with an "all-star" cast of coordinators and assistants. That idea is in conflict with Borges as OC.
Yeah, but those same people's "All-Star" cast were almost uniformly coaches that were assistants at Michigan in the past. I don't care where the assistants have come from, I want the best that Hoke could get.
I'm in agreement on Borges though, not necessarily impressed with the hire. I will say one thing about him, he's done the true west coast offense at UCLA, led more of a power offense at Auburn and spread it out with a passing attack at SDSU. He at least seems willing to conform his style to either the head coach's desire (Auburn) or the ability at hand (SDSU). Hopefully, somewhere along the way, he's picked up some schemes to take advantage of a mobile QB.
Hoke says he won't try and put a square peg in a round hole!
Maybe if RR didn't do this, he'd still be here.
Yes, but unlike Rodriguez, Hoke seems to understand Midwestern Football. He seems to "get" Michigan. I'll bet he'll recruit *bigger* players for us. Guys like Mike Martin and David Molk will become tougher. I don't know what else to say ... I just FEEL better.
In all seriousness, there's probably something to the feel/fit business, and Hoke seems to have it. It has been hilarious, though, to see how he's been received by the Old Guard.
are you referring to the same Old Guard that, you know, actually won all of those Big Ten titles and a national championship?
That Old Guard?
The one that actually KNOWS this guy? And knows what it takes to WIN AT FOOTBALL??
And... they think he is a great hire and will get Michigan back to winning?
Yeah, scew them!
I will instead trust the opinions of internet whiner babies!
Yes, *that* Old Guard. With some exceptions, of course, the expression "deafening silence" comes to mind when I recall the RichRod hire and the months afterward. When there was noise (as with the #1 issue twisted beyond recognition by Diva Edwards), it often wasn't friendly.
Oh, at what point did I question the football credentials of the Old Guard? Are you one of those who'd exempt former players from criticism no matter what they do? Along the same lines, do you think Brian Cook is just an "Internet whiner baby?" Would you rather just read Rosenberg articles?
My point was to contrast the Old Guard's enthusiasm for Hoke with the meh reception they gave Rodriguez. You missed my point and, instead, got emotional.
Wait, are you saying guys who know, like, and played for Hoke support him more than they did a guy who they didnt know, was hired as basically a repudiation of the style of football that had been here for 40 years, who laid off pretty much every coach who they played under, discarded some pretty cherished traditions, and then went 15-22? Shocking!! I blame the Carr Cabal!
So, they thought something smelled in Denmark, and...
It turns out...THEY WERE RIGHT!
Well, I don't know about you, but the opinions of Charles Woodson, Tom Brady, Mike Hart and countless other former Wolverine greats counts for something.
The number of former players who have come out for this guy is overwhelming. That counts for something. Everyone who knows him or has played for his can't stop singing his praises. I can't wait to see Hoke turn us around and make those who are critical eat their words.
I get that some are pissed that RR wasn't treated fairly. To that, I agree. But let's not take that and turn it into resentment of Hoke.
One other note: I know that he is not an exciting hire, but let's look at the lat two Michigan hires:
1. Lloyd Carr - boring as all hell, takes over and wins a NC within 2 years, as well as numerous B10 titles
2. RR - big name hire, exciting coach, sizzle factor - breaks just about every single negative Michigan record en route to the 3 worst seasons in M histors
Not a criticism of RR - I supported him and was ALL IN from day 1, but the point is that sometimes the big name hires don't work as well as the hires that just fit the school.
Not to mention that these guys might actually have some insight into football, but they also personally know Brady Hoke. Anybody who has ever hired someone knows what a difference it makes to personally know the guy. Yes, that is not the only factor, but it is something, and we should allow ourselves to be encouraged by it.
but I would have taken 3 years of old guard Carr with Ryan Mallet than the last three with RR.
We would have been 8-3, 9-2 etc and not a NC but would have tied or won a Big Ten championship, gone to some good bowls and at least have been competitive with tTDS and MSU if not actually winning some of those games.
1. Mallett was leaving no matter who the coach was.
2. 1 returning offensive lineman with any experience. I guarantee we wouldn't have been 8-3, since whoever was the quarterback would have been on his back the entire season.
Stop re-writing history. The lack of upperclass talent and depth the past 3 years was not RR's fault, and would have been there no matter who the coach was.
My problem was with how RR came in and pretty much slaughtered the defensive side of the ball. There was talent on the defense in 2008, no one can deny that. He still managed to field the worst defense in Michigan history. All he cared about was installing his offense.
That ignores that the offense was epically untalented and inexperienced that year which led to that talented defense (which wasn't "all in" by many accounts) being put in horrible situations to defend.
Maybe this is true.
RichRod is gone. Does any Michigan fan actually want Hoke to be treated by the media the way RichRod was? I certainly don't. I don't see how a witch hunt against Hoke will help Michigan.
So sure, Brain might be stating the truth but why? To what end? What's the point?
What would be really bad, for mgoblog and for Michigan, is for Brain to take this coaching change personally and continue to point out the ways that Hoke has benefitted where RichRod did not so that Brain can be right.
I don't care who the coach is (provided he's honest.) I just want Michigan to win. If that's with Hoke (or Air Bud) as coach then GREAT AWESOME. I won't spend my time complaining that he was treated better than RichRod.
Is Cook implying the media reaction had anything to do with the fact that RR and his staff couldn't teach his players how to tackle?
RR was fired because he lost a bunch of games.
Hoke will also get fired if he loses a bunch of games.
Cook is whining about shit that doesn't matter.
He sounds like a whiny cry baby who is bitter about the coaching change. He needs to get over the fact that the guy he justifiable and sometimes unjustifiably defended got fired b/c he didn't win enough.
Dude... what Brian is saying is true.
I didn't get to hear all of what he said so far, but the bit I did catch I don't agree with. He said we can never recruit at the level of USC, Alabama and those schools and that a pro-offense won't work unless you can. I just don't agree with that and in fact if you look at the recruiting numbers it's completely un-true if you agree with recruiting rankings at all.
If you take out the last 3 or 4 years.....how many NFL players does Michigan have in the NFL vs. Alabama, USC, Texas and so on. I bet it's pretty comparable.
RR recruited a lot of players from Florida and we won the Big Ten and the Rose Bowl - well two of those things didn't happen.
Gee didn't Tom Brady come from the USC backyard...
I know, can you believe those Florida freshmean and sophmores didn't win a Rose Bowl after two years on campus?!?!
The facts still remain that RR went into Florida and got some good recruits.
ran a pro-style offense with great success. Can't agree with Brian on this one based on board comments. Have to catch the podcast later.
For someone to point this out. The people who are currently defending the spread to the death are just as shortsighted as the people who denigrated the spread a few years back.
I seriously think Brian needs to take a couple of weeks off on a vision quest or something to re-center himself. He's crossed the line from analysis into devotionalism at this point.
Support from the athletic department/alumni/former players only impacts what happens to you when you don't win. If your players are on board with you, and by all accounts that was the case, then you acquire high level talent and teach them to execute. If you do that, the rancor dies down and support grows. If you don't win, then I agree, that that determines whether you get the extra season/benefit of the doubt, or whatever. I would point you to the archives of this blog for evidence. At 5-0, everything is rosy and, although there are still going to be people with beefs/concerns, they become the minority voice. Lose to Michigan State, Iowa, and Penn State, and... DOOM again. Beat Illinois in a ridiculous game, and mood is positive again. Point is, as many have said YOU MUST WIN FOOTBALL GAMES. If Brady Hoke loses football games, he will not survive. Because of the support that he has on the inside and near the program, he WILL have more leeway than RR did no doubt. That might get him an extra season or two when he shouldn't, but he still must win.
It's not Rich's job to "kick the players off the team", it's to merge the team, old and new, and make everyone feel welcome. Not my way or the highway. Sure, if a guy is just feeling lazy, and doesn't want to work, let him go. There were some of those players who left. But if they stick around, they must be doing the work...so is it something else? Are you making them feel like it's still their team? (At the press conference yesterday, it was reiterated it's supposed to be about the players). Or are you saying things like "Not after I saw what I was left with", alienating the players you inherited, rather than making them feel like "your guys"? It's easy to make the star players who are getting time and pub to feel good about the change. It's the guys who aren't as good, but still count you have to reach out to.
Even if you don't think that's the case, it's not like the other method worked out for him. Having those players around and "all in" certainly would have made him more successful, and he'd still be employed. I know a senior cornerback would have looked good in the secondary rather than struggling to make an NFL team. (There may have been some bad advice there, but if he was really loving his time at Michigan, he might have stayed for a surer draft position).
I'll assume you did not intentionally fire off a personal attack on approximately 45% of the MGoCommunity. If not, you had better re-read what you write and think about how it comes off before you client the "save" button.
If you did, in fact, send a personal attack our way, I hope damn well that Hoke is successful (for many reasons). If not, and if Rodriguez goes somewhere else and kicks a--, you're going to look like a total and complete idiot.
that RR will never again have a winning season ANYWHERE with a defenisve staff as incompetent as the one HE CHOSE at Michigan.
He fucked that up. ROYALLY. The buck stops with HIM.
Hell, I put more care and thought into what kind of shoes I buy my kids than he did in picking the greatest collection of defensive imbecils ever assembled.
131 years of Michigan football proves my point. The 3 worst defenses BY FAR in our program's history.
You CANNOT fuck up staffing decisions that bad and expect to stay. Sorry.
Bingo. Don't forget the special teams. A head coach cannot let 2/3 of the team be utterly neglected/incompetently led. I really like RR, but he failed because of this.
Not only defense and special teams, but IMO the play calling this year was questionable at best. Too many times on third and short would we run shotgun sweeps with Vincent Smith.
Not to mention the fact that he couldn't teach his players to hold on to the damn ball, or try some other slot ninja besides Jeremy Gallon to return kicks- which may or may not have lost us at least one game... as much as I like RR, I am worried he had a bit of the same syndrome that doomed Charlie Weis, and I hate making that comparison, but it just seems like he really only focused on one thing the whole time he was here and that was getting his offense installed and "lighting it up." Unfortunately nothing else seemed to matter.
But, remember, he had a stud DC at WVU and his teams there were great. If his biggest failure was not finding a better DC, I'll accept that. But you know he's going to win somewhere else and win big. You know it.
RR will only win big if he goes to a non-AQ program (that includes the Big East IMO). RR did not "win big" until Miami (YTM), Va Tech and BC left the Big East. Once the Big East transmogrified into Conference USA++ he was able to "win big" and that was likely because the newcomers (L'Ville, UConn, USF and UC) were still stocked full of players who weren't good enough to get offers from the likes of WVU or Pitt.
You know it...
Either way, he'll win and win big. Maybe Rodriguez was simply not a good fit for Michigan and I can accept that. But he was the coach that was hired and he was/is a good coach. Trying to discredit him simply angers those that supported him through thick and thin. Hoke is the coach now and I, for one, will support him more and more but its going to take time to be "All In" this time around and people need to accept this and try to have some compassion. If not, its going to be a very bumpy 2011.
He was our HEAD COACH! He needed to oversee the entire program, not just the offense. He was too stubborn to fire the defensive staff and find a better one. He's not going to win somewhere else if he comes in with the same attitude and stubborness he had when he came to Michigan, period.
RR won't have Tony Gibson, the weakest of the weak links. And he probably won't have GERG either.
Perhaps he should have thought of that in year 2.
It makes you sound like a raving lunatic.
Rodriguez will go somewhere else and do well. Most likely in the Big East or ACC. You can win there from time to time with a poor defense and very good offense. It doesn't work at Michigan, it won't work in the Big Ten, and it doesn't work in the SEC. There's no doubt the passion Coach Rod had, and he knows his offensive football, but his downfall will always be how he couldn't let the defensive coordinator coach that side of the ball the best way they knew how. It's a shame but it's time to move on, and wish Coach Rod the best and wish Coach Hoke the best.
I would say about 88% of what you say is made up and baseless and it is very clear from your comments that you are as bitter about the last 3 years as some people are about coach Hoke.
My point is you're acting all high and mighty and claiming the summit because RR got fired and adding absolutely nothing to any conversation just like the "whiners and excuse-makers" you are condemning.
Perhaps you need to let go of the past too my friend.
Stop while you're behind. Save yourself some heartache.
You're one angry, angry person.
But we had several surveys that supported about 1/3 wanted to keep RR, 1/3 wanted to fire RR and another 1/3 wasnt sure.
I you do a search, you can find that info.
He looks like an idiot now. No need for hypotheticals.
Jesus, dude. Chill out.
This is soooo true. I have done nothing but whined for 3 years. I feel like a two-year-old.
To all 3 of you, some of us get it.
The change has been made.
Perhaps this blog should be renamed? RRgoblog? Spreadgoblog?
Right, because you've been a MGoMember through thick and thin since the blog began years ago and have the standing to make such a stupid suggestion. I'm not saying I've been a member for years, but neither have you and you have absolutely no standing to suggest how the blog be run. If you don't like it, do us all a favor and stop visiting.
No, new name should be MGoBitch&Moan.
Then why don't you?
I never understood that saying. I am with you totally.
That's because it's "I couldn't care less."
I know it is, but more people say I could care less when they mean it like that, and they think they are right.
and he obviously has more important things to do today. Like whine about the "whiny bitch"/proprietor of this here sports blog. And. . .well? What else?
Small dogs bark in order to remind everyone that they are alive. It doesn't make them any more significant, just reminds us of how. . .small they really are.
Easy to say right now, while Hoke is still undefeated as Michigan's head coach. At this point, he can be everything we want him to be. I love his dedication to Michigan and that he wants nothing more than to be the head coach. As for wins and losses, it may be years before we know the real impact.
I support the team, and so I support the coach, plain and simple. That means I supported Rodriguez 100% as well, unlike a lot of the "whiny b*tches" (to use your words) that were not all in during the last few rough years. I supported Lloyd Carr, even though we usually were out of the national championship hunt by week three of the season, having lost to somebody (Notre Dame, UCLA, Washington, the Horror, etc.).
Rodriguez did not bring us as far as we, or he, wanted over the past three years, and the rebuilding process was cut short. There are many reasons for that, some of them his fault and some of them not his fault. Yet, he proved he is a good coach before coming to Michigan, he gave it his all, and he was treated like crap from day one by the many in the "old guard" and the media. We never will see what might have happened with 20 returning starters, a new defensive coordinator, etc.
So, just like we all need to come together and support the team and the new coach, why don't you just stop whining about the past. It's gone. Those teams lost a lot of games, but neither they nor Rodriguez ever gave up. They made me proud to be a Michigan fan, and I was and am still all in.
What's with the name calling ?
Is it possible to have a rough rundown of what Brian says? I am at work and would appreciate it. Thanks to whoever is listening to it.
Let RichRod go, I think. I loved the promise of the Spread, but I'm not sure the upside of that offense warranted stomaching the ineptitude of the defensive staff for another year.
He said Hoke may win conference championships but it will be harder than it was.
He won't win national championships or make us elite (brings up how USC Rose Bowl games against our teams of the past weren't close).
He's correct in his assessment - to date Hoke hasn't shown anything that would indicate he's a NC caliber coach. He's going to have to grow himself to get there. But he can.
I agree, but can't he grow elsewhere? I didn't think Michigan was a job that go to grow. We've shown by firing our past coach after just 3 years that we aren't interested in waiting for growth
I watched the SDSU bowl game, in which they did dominate Navy, and thought... good, let him keep going and if we need him in a few years, he's available
Wasn't a fan of the hire myself, but we've got to get on board. Brian will as well
This is exactly right. And I agree, I've got to get on board. I'm certainly not going to spend the next few years bitching about the coach. Hopefully he grows quickly and we return to our winning ways. It just kind of pisses me off that Rich Rodriguez didn't get the same patience/reception that it appears Hoke will get, but I suppose I should instead be happy that people are behind the new coach and just move on
in the past two weeks.
He does have a NC ring, albeit as an assistant, and so has been part of a program that has won one, and should know what it takes. He also does have multiple conference championship rings, and if you win enough of those, chances are you will play in the big one. He also has an undefeated regular season under his belt. So I do think there is some evidence suggesting that he has the potential for being a NC-caliber coach at UM. Did Chizik ever show anything prior to this year than Hoke? Other than that 1-11 season, of course?
Chizik was one of the top defensive coordinators in the country and one of the prime "hot candidates" for every coaching job for awhile. He bombed at Iowa State, then Auburn brought him in AND brought in high dollar, high quality coordinators with him.
Hoke's resume reminds me more of Greg Robinson than Gene Chizik. Was on the staff for teams that played very well and won national titles/super bowls in the distant past. Had middling success elsewhere. That's not to say Hoke will have the same success, or lack thereof, as Greg Robinson, but I think the resumes are more similar than Hoke and Chizik.
We fire a coach after three seasons and now we are going to alloy the new guy time to "grow"!?!?!? I didn't agree with the coaching change, but I am working on getting over it. However, when I hear arguements like this, I want to scream, It feels like everyone is ok with taking a step back purely on the potential of a step forward. Unfortunately, the qualifications of this potential so far are "He's a really good, tough guy." and "He gets what Michigan is all about." That's all the supporters of the change can come up with and I think that is what Brian is "whining" about. Just because you don't agree with his stance/opinion doesn't mean you can ignore the facts.
or my other comments during the search. I wasn't a fan of the hire. But just b/c fans/former players didn't allow RR time to grow, doesn't mean we shouldn't allow it for Hoke. 2 wrongs don't make a right, yo.
scholarship rules were changed. Hasn't been easy in over a decade.
Or at all kinds of complaince rules and test drives and tatoos and selling gold pants, and recruiting and...
Those losses to USC were generally more competitive then UM's losses to MSU, OSU, Wisconsin and PSU under RR, were they not?
Btw, USC was a team full of professionals, playing their bowl games against UM in a de facto home game. Using UM's Rose Bowl performances against USC is a terrible example of the standard to which UM should be held.
And with RR as our coach we were on a trajectory to win Big Ten Titles and National Championships?
Says the coaches let go were obviously well respected and elite seeing as how they both (Smith and Magee) got snatched up very quickly.
Says Hoke will not utilize denard as well as RR did (obviously).
Say this recruiting class will be the worst in 25 years (true as of now).
Says after Denard leaves then where does that leave us?
Exactly. Magee was an awful playcaller. Screen right, screen left, QB draw on third and long, punt. As an elite coach he would have put in option concepts with denard and failed to do that.
All Michigan did on offense was run on first down, run on second down, two WR receiver set on third down, punt.
The offense produced more big plays from scrimmage this past year than I can remember from the past 20. It was a Top 10 offense, which Michigan has *never* seen in the modern era.
You can knock them for not being able to score points in the red zone in big games, but the number of times this offense just made teams look silly...I think I will have to disagree with you on this one.
I agree they did have a lot of big plays you are right about that, but the only time they could sustain drives is when they played flawless against UConn. When we played legitimate competition from the Big Ten we could not sustain drives, and thus watched stall out after stall out every week. Go Blue
Take a deep breath before you post. You're looking more and more stupid as this goes along. Pittsburgh was a national powerhouse for years and years in the 70s (won more championships than Bo, who you mentioned many times in this thread) and has had some very good teams. As good as Michigan since the 70s? No, definitely not. But pretty darn good in their own right and potentially very good every year.
That leaves us with Donovan, I mean, Devin Gardner.
Smith and McGee are good coaches. Hasn't Gibson landed elsewhere as well. Now, If GERG lands this week, I will not know what to think.
Does anyone have an update as to where the RR coaches landed. Thanks, Much appreciated.
I thought I read that Gibson had landed at Pitt.
A quick search brought me to a West Virginia message board that spoke of the hire (in some very unflattering terms).
In my humble opinion he's going a bit overboard, and should give Hoke a chance. Hoke won't utilize Denard the same way because Hoke doesn't run the spread option. I'm sure DB knew this. The recruiting class will be the worst in 25 years because of RR. After Denard leaves where does that leave us? Who put us in the position to be reliant upon one player? RR. That said, this isn't an attack on RR. I'm very proud of the effort RR put in at Michigan. However, I, as well as others, believe Brian should relax a little on Hoke.
If UM is winning and Denard is the qb, then Denard is being utilized perfectly. Look at his high school stats. He was a passer first in high school.
I don't think its fair to the team to say that if Denard isn't rushing for 1500 yards a season, then coaches aren't using him properly.
If Brian heard the same press conference I did yesterday - and he isn't ready to run through a brick wall for this guy, think he needs to get on some happy pills.
And change the friggin' banner already - we have a head coach now.
Go Brady - GO BLUE!
The problem is that over the past 8 years, the brick walls have won more often than Hoke's team (50-47 in favor of brick walls). RR's players loved him too. Yet his defense was UNACCEPTABLE, rabble, rabble, rabble.
Hoke should not hire Al Borges... bring in someone who can utilize a running QB
Its not about making a blog leader happy, its about producing the right winning formula for the University of Michigan. We need bigger players I dont know how people do not see that. Fuck da spread
Bigger players? Look at the fucking numbers. We have 300lb linemen. 210 lb receivers, a 230lb back. 240lb linebackers, 190lb corners and safeties.
What do you want?
"Our receivers were too small for Michigan" - Desmond and Anthony Carter sure disagree
"Our linemen are too small" - Molk is the only OL under 300, and I believe he's listed at 287. Mike Martin wants you to tell him he's too small.
Denard is too short/small to suceed - look at Vick and Brees... 6' QBs do well all the time. Some of those giant 6'6'' guys don't pan out. Jamarcus anyone?
Get your facts straight before you start slamming a bunch of 18-22year old kids
We had this HUGE back named Morris that was pretty good too.
I do not think I was slamming 18-22 year olds( I am in that age range myself)? I just said they are not a very big group of players I dont think that can be argued.
And look at the roster compared to other big ten teams. This is total bullshit. our players aren't too small
How can Hoke make him happy?
Not hire Borges and kept Magee around. McKnown was only "running " QB Borges ever had (LOL).
Wants Michigan to be national prgram, not regional. With Hoke hire regional is our fate.
He won't try to submarine the hire, he is just stating the facts that other people who buy into the rah rah stuff are choosing to look over.
That is my opinion.
there ae no facts as to how Michigan will fare with Hoke as coach, or how he will use Denard or what offense he will use. Brian is stating his opinion, not facts .... and he is certainly entitled to state his opinion !!!
Remember, Chizik was actually booed when Auburn announced the he was going to take over. He had a losing record at Iowa State for the 2 years he was there ... but Auburn isn't booing him today.
Let's just not confuse our opinions, either great or horrble as facts. Results will tell us what the facts are.
Go Blue !
Rosenberg and Sharp's problem had nothing to do with their dissent, it had to do with their ethics. Please refrain from the ad hominems against Brian because you don't think he's fully behind Hoke.
Meaning win national championships and not just B1G championships...
He basically said nothing Hoke does could ever get him on board (I'm reading between the lines a little). But he basically wouldn't answer the question about what would get him on board for the Hoke hire.
So...Brian is not on board regardless of what happens?
Will Mgoblog be Hoke's freep?
Will Brian be his Sharp?
Brian was supportive and enthusiastic about Rich Rod who got shit-canned after 3 years of miserable results.
Brian is unsupportive and unenthusiastic of Hoke so perhaps it has the opposite effect.
I'm reaching for straws, but nothing else I've read in the last God-knows-how-long is much better.
When RR was here, the vocal supporters on this board - including Brian - chastized those of us who voiced complaints, concerns or opinions that criticized RR as not being "all is" or as submaringing RR. There were countless threads and comments imploring everyone to "support our coach" or "get on board, because if you are a true M fan, then you support the current coach."
Where is that meme now? Hoke is our coach. Much like many did not think that RR was a good hire in 2007, many do not think that Hoke is a good hire now. Ok. But, where is the support? Getting on the air - or even structuring the front page posts in this blog - to blast Hoke and spread negativity is not good for our program during this critical 21 day recruiting period.
That meme, without question, is still around this board. And you have a lot of people saying it, and a fair amount also saying they don't really like the hire much, but will completely support Hoke because he is Michigan's Coach.
Are some people being hypocritcal? Absofreakinglutely, and it's very disappointing to see too. Even moreso considering just how mad some of those users got at the Anti-RR Crowd.
I think you're right (in that I am being hypocritical) but you also have to acknowledge that the converse is true. In other words, those who berated Rodriguez supporters and bad-mouthed Rodriguez are now asking all Rodriguez supporters to get on board.
Also true, but two negatives don't make a positive. If you were frustrated, annoyed, and upset with the anti-RR crowd, then why become anti-Hoke?
Give the guy an honest shot, give him some time to do his thing, just like we all asked the Anti-RR people. It's not that hard to do, you can dislike the hire all you want, but at the minimum give the guy an honest fair chance.
I was not able to listen to Brian but it sounds like he may have come off more negative than I feel personally. But I, for one, do feel like Hoke has a lot more to prove out of the gates than Rodriguez should have when he was hired. If Rodriguez was a mistaken experiment, then Brandon had better damn well have done his homework and get this one right.
It seems to me that many of us on this board supported RR because he was the coach of our beloved Michigan program, despite the (mostly) unwarranted criticism of RR from some factions. Now that the change has been made we are supporting Hoke because he is the coach of our beloved program. It's the team, not the coach.
Are we RR/Hoke supporters or Michigan supporters?
The difference is people weren't allowed to critcize rr even after he went 8-16 the first two years. Hoke hasn't coached a game here yet
Advocating that your right to criticize RR was infringed upon by others on here is a double-edged sword that undermines your criticism of Brian airing his opinion regarding the recent hire. You can support the coach and still be skeptical of the hire.
Brian mentioned him/her...
Hoke seems like a good guy, doesnt think Lloyd way of doing things can win national championships unless you have a recrutiing bed like Florida and Texas and Michigan will never have that.
Hokes record is brought up. Mediocre.
Hoke can recruit. Brian says that is just noise because he was an assistant.
Brings up the Mathlete (BOOM!) stats. He claims that the upward trending Hoke stats is a positive.
Lloyd ball couldn't win us a Rose Bowl (yes, aside from '98) let alone a NC.
Hoke is a good guy and we'll be proud of the kids and the program but I felt that way with both RR and Carr. The whole competing with tOSU and winning BCS games is something that Hoke won't bring more regularly than we've seen in the past decade though.
The rah rah stufff doesnt move brian. The stats do. Mathlete stuff is likely the only positive Brian sees abotu the hire.
His recruting stuff was Michigan based, not Hoke based.
Call him now.
Hoke's teams get better over time.
Made me want to change the channel, but at least he acknowledged Mathlete's stats on Hoke are positive.
People need to let it go. I would have kept RR for another year but that is irrelevant now. Hoke is the guy. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. But as long as the team does okay or is improving, he should get 4 years to demonstrate how he leads.
I liked the spread and felt it gave us a chance to win a national title because it was a schematic advantage and we typically have a talent deficit against the very top teams. But who knows, maybe Brady is a great recruiter and we will become like Alabama under Saban where we have enormous talent.
This is the new plan and everyone needs to get on board with it if they really are a fan.
This really is non-sense. The spread obviously isn't a schematic advantage when playing against superior athletes.
I can't buy all of this argument. We (Michigan) were a hair away from the NC in 2007. If we beat OSU and then play Florida in the NC I think everything changes. The fact is we lost that year in the bowl to USC, which is why it is forgotten how good we were (literally everyone argued for a month whether we and OSU were the top two teams in the country.)
To me there is no way to know whether we could have beat Florida and whether OSU could have beat USC that year. All I know is that were so close and not for a lack of talent or effort. 39 points on OSU running a Pro-Style offense.
I think our guys had a let down after the loss to OSU and were disappointed to play in the Rose Bowl that year because they were so close.
Sure App State happened and we lost to Oregon, but we also ended the season by beating defending National Champion Gators the last year with Carr. That was no small thing.
The biggest difference is that, for whatever reason, he RR didn't have the support of the alumni, AND he didn't win. I'm not sure which one was bigger, but I think that you could make the case that they equally conrtibuted to the firing.
I don't recall many people or alumni that were against RR to begin with. There may have been factions or former players loyal to Carr's system (mainly not against RR but rather against propping up RR against what Carr brought) If anything they were defending the program Michigan had when they were there. I think it may have offended some to infer Michigan had an inferior system in the past and that was about to change with RR. But for the most part I thought even former players were excited about the program and the especially the strenght and conditioning changes.
What happened to lose support really was to go 3-9 in year 1 (1-7 B10) and 5-7 in year 2 (1-7 B10). I mean seriously, that is horrible. RR didn't inherit a program in shambles (he put it there by insisting on his way or the highway - which many players took).
I can appreciate you qualifying your statement by saying you do not recall but the fact remains that a very vocal minority did not support Rodriguez from the start. There are many, many articles and undercurrents about numerous influential people working to undermine Rodriguez at every move. Maybe that wasn't a huge factor in his firing, but it is what it is.
Even had Mallet, Boren, and Manningham stayed, it's doubtful we'd have had a lot of success in 2008. And when you do bring in a specific style offense (and I don't believe "pro style" is a specific style) and you know a kid like Mallet won't be successful in it, I think the right thing to do is to talk with him and tell him he'd have more success in a place like Arkansas. Manningham left since "there's nobody to throw the ball," which is fair. And Boren left...whatever.
What happened that sealed his fate was an underachieving defense every year. The O behaved how we expected it to. And it was very good, and a year from being great. I'm not convinced that we can't "out recruit" and run a pro style. But Considering that Florida made a downright dynasty with a specific offense and great recruiting, I think it's fair to say we were hoping for the same with Rod and it didn't work because of the D. And we are trying to give that up with the Hoke hire, so I can see why Brian is disappointed. I don't fully agree with it, but I understand it.
on the Pro vs Spread... bringing up USC as example that Pro style can win...
Brings up Arkansas... which kills his arguement.
Some guy is getting all puffy about it and freaking out.
USC runs a pro style. USC beat our ass. We will now run a pro style.
Brian says Michigan can't recruit like USC can. Just won't happen, that is why we needed to keep the spread.
Italian, Brian. That was a good point. If we can get the best in Michigan, get second pickings in Ohio (with occasional steals of the top guys), maintain a strong presence elsewhere in the Midwest, and pluck stars from FLA, TEX, and elsewhere, we can recruit w/ anyone. USC/Texas/Flordia/etc have a recruiting advantage, but we can be roughly equivalent. We just have to work harder to get there. That school in Ohio does it regularly
I agree. Why can't we recruit nationally with the elite programs? I understand that being in Michigan there is less of a built in talent pool to draw from, but that's always been the case. There are certain things that Michigan has that few if any other colleges have to offer. History, The Big House, great academics to go along with great althetics, facilities, etc... Few universities can match up with Michigan across the board in areas other than local talent. All that means is that we have to recruit nationally, unlike Texas which can just pick the 20-25 best players in Texas and call it a day. Michigan's always had a presenece in California and Texas, we've recently made major in roads in Florida and we can always dip into Ohio. Talent is there to be recruited, it's just whether the coaches are willing to work hard to get it.
Here’s the average final recruiting rankings (per rivals) from 2002-2009 for a couple of comparative school (if for some reason a school was ranked lower than 25, I gave them a 25, I’m looking at you Notre Dame in the mid 00’s)
U of M - 10.9
ND - 14.6
Texas - 9.5
USC - 4.1
LSU - 8.0
OSU - 10.6
There’s nothing in those numbers (aside from USC, which yeah, we knew that and also that’ll be changing in the next couple years due to sanctions) that suggests Michigan cannot compete against the elite programs. Florida was left out because Florida, FSU and Miami all compete for the same talent, and all have there good and bad times. Over the past 30 years they’ve all had there moments but there isn’t one dominate team.
I think Stanford would have been a better example for the guy to make his point. B/c the recriuting theme would not have been a legit answer like it is for USC.
Pluse the Pro-Style system that USC was running against us also involved not just out recruiting us, but paying for it. Sure I agree we never can compete with that.
or Drew Sharp answering that last question, saying this hire has a low ceiling?
Is he not entitled to his opinion?
"None of this helps. Dave Brandon is an adult and won't be swayed by talk radio, so all speaking out like that does is provide another PR hit against the program. It's juvenile. Suck it up and wait until this year is over."
also, are rosenberg/sharp not entitled to their opinions? sheesh
Even the guy with negative points is finding Brian's own words, and throwing them back in his face. Hypocrite much?
am I not entitled to mine? pretty sure thats how it works
Brian Cook is entitled to his opinion, but in my opinion his opinion on Hoke seems very similar to that of Drew Sharp. From Sharp's column yesterday:
Michigan will staunchly deny this, still content in a delusional world of national football importance, but Tuesday's hire only confirms that the Wolverines lean more toward regional than national in their competitive scope.
Michigan doesn't possess the cast iron stomach necessary for doing everything necessary to field the best team for contending for BCS national championships, as they do in the SEC. U-M can talk a big game about paying big salaries and truly being a national player, but in the end, U-M opted for what's safe, solid and sturdy.
And my further opinion is that Cook and Sharp have both rushed to judge Hoke before even giving him a chance.
goes somewhere and THEN decides to hire a comptent defensive staff, my immediate reaction will be "Jesus Christ, Rich, why didn't you hire a staff like that at MICHIGAN?!?!?"
I have to side with Brian on this one. I don't care if you can do press conference well. All it matter is can Hoke lead Michigan back to being a national power. Evidences has not shown that Hoke can do it yet. It's inconclusive to say that Hoke is the right coach. All we know is Dave Brandon did botch the coaching process and his inexperience/aggronance has cost Michigan a month or two of uncertainity.
Did he say that? We need a schematic advantage to beat a team like Arkansas? That's ridiculous. All we need is a good coach to recruit good players and develop them well.
When, in recent memory, have we competed with the "Big Boyz?" Hoke will try his hardest but without a kickass, creative OC and DC Michigan's spirit won't win us any games alone.
When, in recent memory, have we competed with the "Big Boyz?"
Pretty recently. Carr's record against top 10 teams was 19-8, I think, which is pretty unbelievable.
was actually more like (paraphrase), "we don't recruit like USC and so we can't beat them at their own game;" part of Brian's argument for a "decided schematic advantage."
You may not agree with him, and you're entitled to an opinion. You're not entitled to your own facts; stop making shit up.
UM, with its limited natural recruiting base, cannot compete on pure athleticism with Alabama, USC, Florida, Texas, Oregon, etc. because those programs have access to such superior talent, whether in California, Texas, or the deep south. I think he is essentially saying that the inherent advantages of the spread as practiced by RR offers the ability to even the odds with those programs, so that UM would be competitive on a national basis, rather than just on a regional basis, which is what he forsees for UM under Hoke.
If you go back over the last forty years of Michigan football, that's been the norm: regional dominance and national mediocrity. It's pretty clear that's okay with the people who are driving this discussion. The desire to return to that mediocre comfort zone is a core part of this discussion.
Which is okay, I suppose. Brandon, Hoke, and many, many other folks as said as such. Brian is shooting for a different objective, and one that doesn't really resonate with most folks who are hard core Michigan fans.
There is only one team every year that can win the NC (well except in 1997). Point is, just because a team hasn't won it doesn't mean they are mediocre on the national scale. If you are consistently finishing in Top 25 then I'd say you are competing on the National level.
We won in 1997 and were close to winning it in 2007. I personally think the team was better in 2006 than in 1996. We could have easily lost to Iowa that year, just like we could have easily won against Ohio State in 2006 and been in the title game and then, who knows; not out of the realm of possibilities that we could have beat Florida even though OSU did not. It is one game and anything could happen. We were capable of winning it all that year.
If every year was 2006 leading up to the OSU game, then that is as good as gets for me, throw in an NC every 10 years and that is an elite program.
RR's spread did a great job of evening the odds between teams like us and Toledo. If you can't throw downfield it's tough to win. Most importantly, if you don't have a great RB like Slaton, you won't be as effective.
Toledo was in RR's first year, so that comment holds no water.
fine. substitute the fighting zookers and the point stands
Don, you're dead-on. Two breathless callers have a major problem admitting that we will NEVER out-recruit certain programs due to "scruples". The spread, offensive game theory, under Rodriguez would have closed the gap creating by the recruiting disadvantages.
I think Hoke will do well, but, and I reserve the right to change my mind if he brings in awesome coordinators, our future does not include us being a perennial top 5 power.
I hope I'm wrong because I love what Hoke stands for, and I'd prefer it over comprimising the integrity of the program to compete for a national title every year.
I love what Hoke stands for, and I'd prefer it over comprimising the integrity of the program to compete for a national title every year
One of the things I love about Rod and Hoke is that they both seemed to be in coaching for the players. There is the difference in offensive philosophy and game theory too. But I think they both wanted to win the right way. And I'd like to think that is still possible - even with the SEC being the SEC, and Ohio being Ohio. Michigan will win national titles, and we'll do it the right way.
West Virginia had a recruiting ADVANTAGE over the other teams in the Big East. It had the best players in the conference. Yet, in Rodriguez's best season, it lost to far less talented teams from Pitt and South Florida.
Having a "schematic advantage" over teams like USC doesn't help if you don't win enough games in your own conference to get to play them in a bowl game.
Do you really believe that WVU has a recruiting advantage over Pitt or S Florida? Pat White and Steve Slaton were 3 stars that RR unearthed to bring unholy fire down upon his opponents...
That's the first time I've heard that WV had a recruiting advantage over anyone, let alone a team from Florida.
Yes, West Virginia had a recruiting advantage over South Florida, which was not even a IA school until recently. Not all teams from Florida are UF, Miami or FSU -- does Central Florida have a recuiting advantage too?
West Virginia had much better players than Pitt or South Florida, by any metric. Yet lost too both, despite their "schematic advantage."
That's the first time I've heard that WV had a recruiting advantage over anyone, let alone a team from Florida. Unless you're talking about an advantage over in-state players? The recruiting gap that I was referring to is more due
Unfortunately, your last comment was all too true these past few years.
what I think. I wasn't thrilled at the prospect of defending JH DUI's or LM recruiting practices to M-haters; fortunately I won't have to. It would be nice to have a top level coach with real integrity; this is sort of what we hoped RR would turn out to be. Well, at least we don't have to hide our faces b/c of off-the-field issues for a while; that is something.
Tom Brady - southern cal (USC backyard)
Leroy Hoard - Louisiana (LSU backyard)
Dhad Henne - Pennsylvania
Brian Griese - Florida
Tim Biakabutuka - canada
I could go on
yep - we have never been able to recruit nationally without the spread
Is he related to Chani Jones?
There's always exceptions and its easy to point them out. I think the whole point is that, to be a national championship caliber team, you have to have a Top 10 recruiting class. And in the last few years of Lloyd Carr, that was not the case. All this talk about Bo winning games, etc. is old, old news. This is the 21st Century, its a new college football era, and the alumni/fans better figure this out quickly or we'll go right back to the 1990s where we always were competitive but could never leap that last hurdle. If people are okay with that, awesome. But I think what Brian is saying is that we needed to find someone or something that would build on what Carr constructed, someone/thing that could get us over that last hump to compete more on the national level. And Hoke did himself a disservice by refusing to admit that he wants to compete for national championship, in my opinion.
Have you ever heard the expression "crawl before you walk"? To start talking about national championships for this team is ridiculously hubristic right now. Let's compete in the Big 10, then we can talk about making the next step.
I totally agree with you. But to completely pretend that he is not thinking about a national championship at all was a bad move, in my opinion. It would have been difficult, but he probably should have at least acknowledge that Michigan will always have national championship aspirations and then said exactly what you said in your post.
exceptions - they are the rule.
Michigan has always recruited nationally.
These players have gone on to the pros - this is the end game that many of the top talents want to achieve - the pros. This is why we could recruit in the past because we always sent a half dozen kids on to the pros every year. How many RR recruits of the past 3 years will end up in the pros?
RR was not going to get us over the last hurdle. Winning NC requires a lot of great players playing disciplined football - spread or no.
Michigan has always had outstanding talent. But the fact is that, other in 1997, they have never been able to get over the last hurdle to a national championship. And in 2008, I think many realized this fact and brought in Rodriguez to help with that last hurdle. He wasn't able to and is gone. So the question is, can Hoke (1) get back to the B1G championship caliber level and then (2) leap the last hurdle. Brian is saying no to #2 and I can't say that I do not disagree but am hoping to be shown that my doubts are for naught. See what I'm saying?
Rodriguez was not brought in to get UM over the last hurdle. Rodriguez was brought in because Ferentz and Schiano turned UM down.
There was no grand scheme to revolutionize UM on the part of Bill Martin. RR was a desperation hire (he initiated the contact with UM) to save face because we had been turned down by two Carr-clones.
I'm surprised how many people forget how the 2007/2008 coaching search went down and that it was not some referendum on UM football philosophy.
Maybe you're right, but can you honestly say that those are the facts? I know the rumors but was that how things really transpired? Because I heard a lot of rumors about both Harbaugh and Miles being offered the job (both have been refuted, but who is right?) and Gruden being interviewed. On its face, it appears as though this search transpired exactly the same as the last and all we have to go on is what Brandon has told us after having remained silent for weeks. You'll have to excuse me for being skeptical.
Brian Griese is not a good example.
Someone had better tell oklahoma, stanford and oregon (and illinois to some extent) that if you dont have a deep local talent pool you can't recruit with the big boys. they seem to have missed the memo
is wasted energy at this point. He's gone, Brady's our guy.
One thing I've come to realize throughout the past week is that, for better or for worse and regardless of how well-informed and intelligent we are, the online community is just one small portion of the fan base. We're just another sub-market of UM consumers, really, and Brandon just sold a new product. And regardless of what Brian or whatever percentage of this site thinks, sales were darn good yesterday.
I should stand up and come clean as well-- I made no secret that I was a Harbaugh guy, even before the fire... but I feel okay. I'm enthusiastic, remembering the climate of the program before, well, the Horror. I'd be happy to get back to there for now, with a little dilithium and dreads sprinkled in for good measure. We're okay.
Agreed. But I'm not hearing "anger". I'm hearing frustration that we're swapping out defensive defencies with offensive ones.
Yesterday was a product demo, sales of the actual product occurs every Saturday in the fall. We're at the point now where we're assembling the team that will bring that particular product to us for the next 6 years.
For the record, I will always be a fan of Rodriguez, but I'm also very impressed with Hoke, as a person, as a motivator, and as a leader. If Brady can get the right people around him, it should be a quick return for Michigan to being competitive with the big boys.
Is UM really going to suffer that much on offense?
SDSU averaged more points this season than UM (35.0 for SDSU vs. 32.7 for UM) and Hoke has publicly stated that he would like for Denard to be UM's QB in 2011. We know for a fact that UM's defense sucked under RR, how UM's offense will fare under Hoke is undetermined at this point.
Shoe calls in. Says Brian is way off.
Caller says Michigan can recruit nationally.
Says RR sucked at recruiting (LOL).
Dude said his name was Shoe.
Guy said his name was Shoe. Thought it was strange. Obviously an impersonator.
But I can understand why someone who's name/or calling himself 'Shoe and calling Brian would make one think of you. Though it at first seemed odd that you would be calling into a station you're not around, and the guy's call didn't have your tone at all. So it just came off as a weird coincidence.
Man I love Brian and he is real smart, but the idea that Rich and his system were the only path to making us better than regional failed the reality test. We hadn't even shown signs of being competitive regionally. Also, the idea that we can't compete nationally playing a more basic pro style over time, because we can't recruit with national programs fails the Ohio State test.
We used to beat them around like a drum in the 90s. What changed is we didn't recruit and coach em up as well as our opponent. The answer isn't trying to get smaller and trick them with some "schematic advantage." The answer is have greater will to recruit like MIchigan can and to coach them better then we did the last few years when Carr was coach.
It starts with winning our league, because that schedule will never change. If we don't handle that, forget national.
Wrong. We beat That School in Ohio like a drum in the 90's because of a man named Cooper. Once Tressel came the tides turned.
But Tressel's dominance is far more about recruiting than it is some schematic advantage. And not only that he's a better recruiter than Cooper (which he is, by a small margin) but that he built a wall around Ohio that's only now starting to weaken. The rise of Glenville as the dominant Cleveland talent school and their deep ties to OSU has badly hurt what was once one of the key locations from which we recruited.
Very well said. I say 2006 was one of / if not the best legitamate teams in the country. USC wasn't actually legit. OSU had a home field advantage that saw three bombs miss Manningham because he was slowed intentionally by their crappy field.
To all the people being critical of Brian on this thread - this is HIS WEBSITE. Not yours. If you don't like his opinions, don't come here.
If I'm here and you're here, doesn't it make it our site?
And there's nothing wrong with a little criticism on our site.
EDIT... Plus... Brian gets paid for us visiting his site and voicing our criticism, whether it's directed at him, Michigan, the AD, RR, whoever...
So you ask him if he cares that we criticize.
So you've discussed it with Brian and he only wants people coming here that will completely agree with everything he says? If thats the case I guess I'll leave. Sorry for having independent thoughts here.
Regardless of personal choice, I think it’s clear the division in the athletic department was real and very disruptive. Dave Brandon subtly made a number of points that could be construed as pot shoots toward the old coaching staff.
We know who the OC is, but what would set Brady apart would be his ability to add young guys to the staff to mentor and build into the next generation of Michigan leadership.
but it wasn't Lloyd commanding people to do this or that. I think they all felt that RR was an outside who didn't put as much emphasis on Michigan's tradition as they would have liked.
And that his staff was the same. It seems clear that there were some very deep relationships/friendships between people on LC's staff and people in the AD, and that those same sort of relationships never developed between AD staffers and RR's staff.
Caller says USC recruited guys from Michigan (fails to recall they paid them).
says it is all about recruiting.
says we proved we can recruit nationally
says Cook shouldn't be on the radio.
Cook says evidence is on his side (which is true)
says michigan under Lloyd cant compete with a Pac Ten and SEC team and will be the same with Hoke. We will get crushed in bowl games.
but Carr went 6 - 2 against SEC teams.
Go Blue !
And also, I don't find it that odd that USC or for that matter any Pac 10 team has an advantage playing in Southern California. It is better than a home game. The Big 10 has a 3 hour jet lag to contend with along with the other normal disadvantages. We don't seem to have the same problems with Florida bowl games, at least under Carr.
Sorry he said Lloyds team couldn't compete with the elite Pac ten and SEC teams (ie. in bowl games).
Apologies, I was writing really fast and my fingers are not as quick as my brain.
But in the Carr years only 1 of those games was not in a bowl (W over Vandy). So he was 1 - 0 regular season against the SEC and 5 - 2 in bowl games. Not shabby at all ...
I am guessing that Brian was convinced that Lloyd's style of play in the 90's and '00's could not compete with today's SEC teams .... and college football has changed a lot in the last decade. But he confused Carr's actual record vs. SEC with Carr's football style and approach (IMO).
Go Blue !
OT Sam Webb has the most advanced vocabulary of anyone on sports radio in the country.
Cook says we will recruit better and win more under Hoke, but will not be a national power.
Hokes best win is beating Navy in the bowl game (which is true :(
Evidence that Hoke is "good" is that players have come back to say he is "good"
Webb asks how stanford is good with a pro style.
Cook says that was harbaugh who is now making 5MIL in the NFL, not Hoke.
Harbaugh proves he can recruit, Hoke has not.
Says Hoke probably recruited well here because it was Michigan not because it was Hoke.
for the link, Your Dudeness.
After watching Hoke yesterday, I really think that he'll be a hell of a recruiter.
I've never been recruited as a football player, but I'd bet that a big part of recruiting is convincing kids and their families that you genuinely care about them and will care for them in school and beyond. He's going to be able to do that. Sure, there are a handful of kids/families who don't care about that stuff at all and just want flashy coaches to turn them into celebrities. This is a small group, though, that isn't necessarily composed of the best players in the country and probably doesn't have a lot of kids whom I'd like to see at Michigan.
Sam seemed to think that Hoke was a good recruiter after his Michigan coaching days, and that opinion was also held by the west coast recruiting experts.
Webb's Detroit News article today was on the same subject:
and he is completely back peddling and just said "Harbaugh recruited nationally". Yet he doesn't think Michigan can. What a joke. Michigan can recruit on the level Harbaugh did at Stanford.
I'll believe that when the climate of Ann Arbor matches Palo Alto.
Look at Harbaugh's recruiting classes while he was at Stanford. If you don't think we can bring in that level of talent, we're in huge trouble.
So what is Brian's solution, keep Rich Rod who was 15-22 in three years and 0-6 against MSU and OSU. Rich Rod obviously did not understand what Michigan was and made the program more about himself than about MIchigan. He needs to come out of his mom's basement and see the light more often
Brian himself would never claim to be a journalist. He is a fan that writes a blog about his favorite team. It just so happens that the blog is very good.
I think we all need to take a time out and chill. So Brian is not thrilled with the Hoke hire, get over it.
No. It's infuriating when people say "Brian isn't a journalist. He's a blogger." That's such a cheap excuse. Brian is effectively both. He routinely reports news for a widely read blog. His cc reports were presented as reportage, based on his contacts and expertise. They were taken as such. If they were presented as just random speculation, nobody would give a shit.
You don't get a pass just because you call it a blog, as opposed to a newspaper. Plenty of blogs are both. If we're gonna hold other reporters accountable for their flaws, then we ought to hold Brian to similar standards.
In general, being on Radio is an acquired skill. I wouldn't read too much into it. Does not mean Brian isn't a good journalist. Clearly he is a fan, but I do think it was much too soon to go on the radio. Need a couple of months for things to calm down. Right now no one knows whether Hoke will be good.
I can tell you this though. For those who say RR never had support, going 3-9 and not getting fired required significant support in year 1 alone. He lost support over time. And for those who think Hoke is getting too much support (like Carr - at least to me there seemed to be far too much criticism of Carr compared to RR), I can guarantee another 3-9 season next year will spell DOOM for Hoke. No excuses will be acceptable this time.
Rich Rod came up with the phrase, "All in for Michigan." And the fact that this team is staying together for Hoke is because, in my opinion, Rich Rod instilled in them "The Team" ethos that your avatar brought here forty years ago. That ethos was not there when RR arrived.
Rich Rod failed because of defense. He's a good guy and a Michigan Man in every sense of the word. Let's not kick a good man when he's down. And hopefully, one year from now, let's thank him for setting us up for success under Hoke.
Cosign x 1,000,000.
We Are Michigan
Eh, maybe not, too much like We Are SC?
Rich Rod obviously did not understand what Michigan was
A perfect example of the nonsensical, xenophobic garbage constantly thrown at RR. He loses games and it's because he, an arrogant outsider, does not understand us. I mean, if we're properly understood we have to beat OSU and MSU, right?
Cook says when RR left the WV program did dip on offense.
Did need to go from Michigan. after the bowl game.
Just doesn't know about the Hoke hire making us a national power.
Caller says Hoke is all about the lines.
says Hoke can recruit
says Hoke will bring us back because of the line play
Webb says Hoke recrutied very well at SDSU.
Cook says he likes that.
Cook says Robinson was the worst hire ever.
Brathwaitte was also a bad hire, no offense but it was his first job and at Michigan.
RR is respected offensively but the defensive guys are not (not hired quickly).
Cook wishes it would have worked out. Overlooked personal quirks. Wishes we could have hired a top end DC. It failed. Now we don't have a head coach who is an advantage against other teams. Says Chip Kelly is an advantage with all facets and he has won every where. (Hoke has not - unsaid).
Whoa dude. Whoa. You gots to chill, man.
I don't think he is burying Hoke, in my opinion.
I think he is underwhelmed with the hire (which up until the rah rah speech we kind of all were.)
I think he may have felt that if we are trading RR for Harbaugh then that is fine, but trading RR for Hoke was stupid (I dont want to put words in his mouth). If that is the case then I agree with Biff.
NOTE: This is all my opinion. I have no contact with Biff other than my addiction to his blog.
Everywhere = New Hampshire(as an OC) + an Oregon job where the staff has been together for 20 years and the transition has been planned years in advance?
If he really said that, then w, jw
even if he says something you dont like, theres no call for that
I don't think there's as much hypocrisy there as you think. People submarined RR from the beginning because he was an outsider, spoke with a drawl, OMG wouldn't pay his buyout, and by the time the discussion got to what he had accomplished and what he brought to the field, the Rosenbergites didn't want to hear about it. Brian is less than enthused about Hoke because of what he's done and hasn't done on the field.
Have a nice ride.
Webb says how can you overlook Ball State success for Hoke.
Cook says he won against Navy and that was his biggest win.
Says the last year at SDSU is his biggest positive says we need to win 9 games next year and every one will be all on Hokes jock.
Media will go nuts.
Michigan can plausably get back into OSU realm. Tressel gets old and we can be even with OSU in 5 years. Best case scenario from Brian.
Thanks for the play-by-play, much appreciated.
What was RR's biggest win here? Wisconsin, Uconn, ND? Hardly great teams.
Brian needs to give this a couple years. Looking back @ the 2010 season, games against UMASS, IND, ND, ILL could easily have went the other way. I was all in for RR, until the Wisconsin game. There wasn't enought improvement.
I'm not saying that Rodriguez had great wins, but each of those 3 teams you brought up won their respective bowl games this year. Just saying.
Wisconsin and UConn both lost their bowl games.
You're totally right. My bad. I got all caught up in the emotion of this thread. Again, my sincere apologies and thanks for setting me straight.
by the biggest
Get over it. Like everyone has said, Rodriguez's tenure is over and there's no reason to re-hash. The point is that there are a lot of people who feel burned from the events of the past 2 months and need time to get over that before we can throw all of our support Hoke's way. That's not to say we don't support him, but we're not yet "all in" like others may be.
Aren't you guys tired yet of dancing on his grave?
Hoke only lost to TCU by 5 in TX late in the season.
I know a loss is a loss...
Their other losses were against Utah by 4, Mizzou by 3 and BYU by 3. All very close games against competitive, ranked teams (BYU not ranked, but won bowl game).
What to make of it? I have no idea...
Navy is Hokes biggest win anywhere.
RR has beaten big time programs. Georgia is one that comes to mind.
Wisconsin was a pretty great team this year as well. ND is a bigger win than Navy... you would have to agree with that.
We lost to them by a ton. If you mean the year we beat them, 2008, they were 7-6. Not great by any means. But yes, Rich has had some bigger wins.
Yet his big wins came at WVU, so who really cares?
Why exactly is ND a better win than Navy? Because they lost to the middies this year at a neutral site and last year in south bend?
Brian was just called "Drew Sharp" by a caller
I think Brian should detox before getting back on the radio...this coaching search has hurt him more than I expected
Says Hoke was fit for a mid-level B1G job.
Got a better one.
Says he IS NOT A TERRIBLE HIRE.
Says it is a critique of the things essentially holding michigan back the way we ran RR out of town.
People were buying one-way tickets for RR before he ever coached a game.
If you don't see the difference between what Brian's doing and what Rosenberg did, I don't know what to tell you.
You're right, you're not doing a good job of explaining the difference. Brian for 3 years has had Hoke as the coaching candidate devil, and now that it's come to be, he's not even taking any notion that he could be wrong, and could be a good fit. Rosenberg at least waited till Rich offended his oh so delicate sensibilities before he flip-flopped on him (his first article on Rich was one of high praise). I guess at least Brian is being consistent. But Rosenberg at least waited for something to happen before being completely turned off.
OK, then, it's like this: If you ever see Brian take the attitude that he must destroy Hoke and Michigan in order to save Michigan, then I'll admit being wrong.
I don't recall Rosenberg's initial column, but I remember this: it was long, long before RR coached his first game at Michigan when Rosenberg turned against him. Brian's anti-Hoke because of Hoke's resume. His main criticism isn't leveled against Hoke, as I see it. In fact, Brian went out of his way to look for upsides in Hoke. His criticism is leveled mainly against those who hold the idea that "Michigan Man" trumps all else. At any rate I highly doubt we'll see Brian take an active role in destroying the program as others did. I see consistency in Brian's approach, to the point of criticizing Drew Sharp for being Drew Sharp even when it means defending Hoke.
To summarize: I think Brian is not rooting for Hoke's failure. I'm practically convinced there were many who were rooting for RR's failure. There was at least one. That's the difference.
They were "saving" Michigan (even if they were horribly wrong). I'm not sure WHAT Brian is going for with this take. It's certainly not helping. But I'll happily agree/concede that Brian isn't rooting to be right like they were. He'd happily flip-flop if proven wrong, and will enjoy every victory. (However, I have some doubt for the first time the way he's clinging to his views from the past, and has ignored the negatives that he isn't waiting to say "I told you so", because he can't accept being wrong in the least).
Sorry, but I see nothing but consistency in saying 1) RR was treated the way he was treated because he didn't fit a rigid, untenable definition of Michigan Man, and that's wrong; and 2) Hoke is being treated the way he's being treated because he fits a rigid, untenable definition of Michigan Man, and that's wrong.
I think the argument is that all of the adversity and negativity from within the UM community made it more difficult for RR to win games. You may not agree with that view, but it requires more of a response than "but he didn't win"
Caller says Hoke gets it.
says Hoke is a GREAT hire
says Brian has some balls calling him out.
Brian says nothing to say to that.
(It was basicially a caller rah rah-ing to which yea LOL).
Dan Dierdorf said we sucked at recruiting the past 3 years as well. It's not a new theory.
I only believed this when I saw the pure size advantage of the Wisconsin team compared to ours.
at the bowl it looked like every player was 6 inches taller and 40 lbs heavier.
I didn't see Dierdorf's comments, but Spielman summed up our recruiting and current talent level very well during the Wisconsin game. It hurt to hear it, but I couldn't find fault with anything he said.
You have to be specific when you talk about recruiting, or at least should be.
Some players are frosh/soph recruited by RR and most were leftovers from the Lloyd era.
The freshmen and sophomores don't just get "better" as juniors and seniors, they will be bigger and stronger as well due to college weight training and physical maturity.
The RR only wants small players meme is nonsense on par with the spread not working in the Big 10.
I wasn't trying to imply "rr recruited small players". I'm sure you heard Speilman's comments either in the game or rehashed here on the blog. He basically said nobody on our D would start on another Big 10 school - outside of Martin.
There was some additional comments, but the basic premise was that Michigan used to pump D talent into the NFL, and nobody currently playing on M's D was at that level.
Maybe some of the freshmen grow into that, maybe they don't, but our current talent/production was what he was speaking to, and that's what I was referencing in my post.
Chris Spielman is a homeless man's Matt Millen when it comes to evaluating football players and talent. He's clueless and stuck in a bygone era. He also doesn't like the 3-3-5 due to too many bubbles. I am very familiar with his comments.
Since you weren't implying RR recruited players that were too small, I guess you were implying that it was Lloyd's fault?
It's readily apparent that the defense was awful last year, but it didn't have anything to do with our coaching staff(s) recruiting players that were too small.
I really like writing on this blog, but it is turning into the freep. I do not want to support a guy who goes on the radio trashing our coach and our athletic director. His thought that Michigan will never be as good as elite schools if they don't have a schematic advantage is complete BS. How long has Brian been a Michigan fan again? He sounds like someone who has no history with our program.
by "turning into the freep" you mean this blog criticizes Michigan's coach? I think you're overstating your objection to Brian's response.
If Brian criticizes Hoke in a way that is (1) personal, and (2) unfair...then make the comparison.
The problem with the Free Press wasn't that it was "critical"! Are you freaking kidding me? The problem with the Free Press was that they made shit up, instigated an NCAA investigation, which in turn cost us a lot of national prestige, put Coach Rodriguez in a falsely bad light, distracted our staff from coaching and recruiting, hurt our national reputation with recruits, divided our fan base, cost us more money than Jeff Casteel makes in an entire contract, et cetera, et cetera.
The day that Brian Cook makes up a phony story based on anonymous sources who he won't identify, and falsely alleges that Brady Hoke and his staff are seriously violating NCAA rules, and that in turn leads to another NCAA investigation of the football program -- that is the day that you can compare Brian Cook to the fucking Detroit Free Press!
and disagree with whomever disagreed with you and negged you. so here's a +1.
Does OSU really have a schematic advantage when they step on the field? For the most part I don't think so, but they've won 6 straight Big Ten Titles, a NC, played in 3 BCS Title games and have gone 5-3 in BCS bowl games under Tressell.
They also cheat.
Listen, it's obvious a lot of people on this board have strong feelings about the way RR was treated, the way he coached and the way he was relieved of his duties. I definitely do. And a lot of people have strong feelings about Hoke, his qualifications, his staff, his schemes. Can we have those conversations in the appropriate threads instead of dissolving every thread into a rehash of the same arguments?
Yes, there is going to be a double standard when it comes to RR and Hoke. He is going to get advantages and patience and appreciation that RR never got, and yes, that sucks. BUT Hoke is our coach now and we have a really big couple weeks coming up for recruiting, then spring practices and the spring game. For those who want to still talk about RR, please start your own threads. I'll see you there.
I agree with all of this to some extent. It is important to acknowledge that there are a large number of fans that feel scorned and upset about the whole coaching change situation transpired and attempts to discredit them is only going to fan the flames of discontent. The most important thing is getting everyone on board this train because, no matter what, its leaving the station. That said, I think the time is not yet upon us that the ardent Rodriguez supporters (or at least sympathizers) are ready to buy into the new direction. Not that it is not coming, just that people who have already bought in should be a little more patient and try being a little more understanding. Kill us with kindness or else the harmful division will remain.
Why is there so much focus on "offensive schematic advantages". It seems like the loses in 2006/7 to OSU/USC, the loses to Oregon and Texas were just as much, if not more, defensive lapses.
Elaydin has no horse in this race (though if the tenor of this blog continues, he's going to be hurt on App ad hits...). Look back. How many of those big games was the problem that we just couldn't score points? We've been mostly an offensive machine since '99. It's been the defense that's been up and down, and determined the season. We didn't "not score enough" against Texas...we gave up too many points. We beat Alabama by outscoring them. OSU in '06 was the defense did a 180, not our offense. Florida, beat them twice outscoring them...but gave up a lot of points both times. And USC? They beat us with ridiculous talent on defense, not offense (though it was pretty awesome on offense too). Our problem was that their defense was so fast, ANY offense could have been stopped by them. We just couldn't hold them down too. We needed to have a game like Monday's National Championship Game...two good offenses, held down by well-prepared defenses. Ohio State hasn't been beating us with offensive pyrotechnics...it's usually by their defense. For all the talk that our offense was so "predictable to the USC players" (yes, they said it), it was also said about our offense by.....Mississippi State, 12 days ago. So apparently, even though to Brian it's all about turnovers with a young quarterback (funny, I don't think he was the only one turning the ball over...nice statistical work there), OTHER teams think our "decided schematic advantage" is pretty predictable. But what do MSU's defenders know...they only played the game against us.
A great, great, accurate post.
Not to be a RichRod apologist but you make it seem as though a better offense was linked to having a worse defense. The better offense did not cause the worst defense. It just so happens that our defense became much worse under RichRod while our offense became better.
You can blame RR for the defense being schematically poor but you can't blame his recruiting. His first recruiting class just finished their true soph season and those guys should only be getting their feet wet.
Guys like Jake Ryan, Josh Furman and Marvin Robinson are going to end up being impact players in time.
The lack of talent on D was 99% the result of poor recruiting by Lloyd, coaching change attrition, bad decisions by guys like Warren/Cissoko, and bad luck.
At some point we all need to get off the "but they didn't treat RR this way!" meme, because it doesn't matter anymore.
Rich Rodriguez is gone. We can't change the past. Brian's going to need to get over it, and we're going to have to allow Brady Hoke to be Brady Hoke without throwing all the garbage and baggage and snark of the past three years in his lap.
I agree, but like I said, it takes time. And you cannot force the "grieving" process. So people just need to calm the f-ck down are let people foster support in their own way. Maybe Brian didn't come off well, but he speaks for a great many of us in expressing his concerns.
Hoke is a good recruiter. He recruited well at Ball State and at SDSU.
Now that he is at an elite school, with a storied history, a massive fanbase and boatloads of funding to all back him up, I bet he will be one hell of a recruiter.
He has ties to SoCal, which is a hotbed for recruting. If he keeps Fred Jackson, that'll be a FL pipeline. I want to see him do some better Michigan & OSU recruiting, pull the rug out from under MSU and tOSU.
The potential is there for us to be a top recruiting program every year. Granted the key is to get the wins to attract top talent...
By the way, I'd like to ditch "All In for Michigan." We're in a new time, with a new coach, and a new attitude. Any suggestions?
You should definitely start a new thread for this topic. I'm not sure folks will find it here.
it has a useful double entendre that probably captures all of us in one way or another today
At this point I am going to try to hold back any judgement and give Hoke some time to build his staff etc. What I will say about recruiting under RR is that he seemed to go after a lot of guys that were borderline as far as academics. I don't pretend to know how recruiting works but it seems like someone would be checking into the grades of these kids earlier in the process. That fact that some of these higher rated recruits never qualified academically really hurt the team, particularly the defense. I bet these players would have been able to qualify at WVU. I am trying to avoid using the term "Michigan Man" but Hoke's previous experience at Michigan will probably help him in the recruiting process. I doubt Hoke will spend time recruiting kids that have a tremendous upside but in all likelihood will not qualify academically.
"The Team, The Team, The Team" - That is our slogan from now on. It's all about winning the B1G now, peeps.
I'm only half way through it I don't really see all that much negativity. He's unhappy but not Whiney.
EDIT: Ok I'm at the "Shoe" caller and What I got is Brian thinks M is going back to the "Bo" era as far as winning bowl games and getting ripped by in the "Rose Bowl".
Plus about USC and Alabama out recruiting M goes???? USC just got busted and ALA get an extra class every 4 years. This I disagree with Brian, but again I think he'll re-examine this when he's not on the spot on radio.
I'll take getting ripped in the Rose Bowl over, well, getting ripped in the Gator Bowl.
And, let's face it, no Big 10 team has done consistently well in the Rose Bowl.
I think some of the critcism toward Brian in this thread by some is a little harsh, we all have our "Opinions" one way or another, so to insult each other really doesn't accomplish much of anything. Brian was a Rich Rod supporter, he has his reasons, and I respect those reasons, at first I was a Rich Rod supporter but as his tenure went on and the Defense, Special Teams, etc. sucked, I had a hard time supporting his same lame duck excuses. Now as far as Hoke goes, at first I was a little disappointed in the hire, I too had my hopes up for Harbaugh. But the more I hear from Hoke and others around him whether media driven or not I like the guy. He looks like a football player, he LOVES Michigan, and depending on the rest of his hires I hope this is a turning point for Michigan Football History. I will support him because I too LOVE Michigan Football, if he loses like Rich Rod does, I'm sure he will endure the same criticism regardless of the fact that he is a "Michigan Man". I'm happy to see all the former players speaking about Michigan again, instead of hearing them call out their High School on Monday night football instead of the University of Michigan. My point is respect each other's opinion's even if you disagree with their statements, at the end of the day we all want what is best for Michigan Football. Go Blue....Good Luck Hoke.
To all the people talking about Rich Rod having a one way ticket bought for him before he ever coached a game, I don't disagree with you. However, does anyone really think Rich Rod gets fired if the last 3 games went ANY differently than they did?
The team mentally crumbled in all respects, went back to 2008 where we fumbled everything and couldn't hold onto anything, special teams was bad, the defense continued to execute poorly. We were willing to accept 3-9, 5-7, and either 8-5 or a more competitive 7-6 , and I don't think it was going to be so tough to bring Rodriguez back.
The environment was toxic for Rod, he was an outsider, etc etc, I am not taking away from those statements because they have some validity, but ultimately him getting 'run out of town', was it about anything more than the embarrassing end to the season showing that we really hadn't made any progress under him?
What you describe was a frequent occurence with RR's teams, as well. There were many games where the wings simply fell off the plane (Illinois 2009 is a good example).
Sustaining motivation (and other aspects of psychological performance), over the long-term, is the coach's responsibility ... same as any leadership role in any organization. Not that every game will be 100%, but complete disasters occurring with such regularity is indicative of a fundemantal problem in leadership.
Man - I'm listening to these pod casts (WTKA doesn't make it to Texas without the Interwebs)... what's with the Brian Hate? Is it always like this? One caller put him with Drew Sharp.
From the comments here, Brandon has not united the fan base with this hire as he said he would. That is most disappointing.
I supported RR. I will support Hoke. Not a big fan of Brandon.
I was an ardent RR supporter, A fourth year would have been nice.I was underwhelmed by the Hoke hire. Massively irritated by the way the coach search was done. Now that Hoke is here, i will give him the support that i believe every coach deserves, however I have my grievances.I think that my conceptualization is similar to Brian's, this incestuous love affair was something that Brandon said was not important, and then promptly went out and got his first cousin pregnant. That " Michigan Man" meme may never die now. Then DB killed this recruiting class, which to me is the bigger sin. He has handicapped Hoke, this in turn I believe is the biggest fear that individuals such as myself have. What happens if Hoke doesnt make a new years day bowl next year. Everyone will be clamoring for his head. how will that affect the 2012 recruiting class.Worrying about the OC is important. The Media said that RR did not adjust his schemes.Will Borges adjust his to fit the talent currently on this one? Those of us that believe RR was treated unfairly are stunned by the way this hire has been viewed. Perhaps if the good ol boys club had reached out to the last coach we had, then we would have been in better shape. I have heard it said, that the NCAA investigation wasn't a freep hit job, but rather someone from inside the Alum/booster circle handed them that story. I believe we have the right to express our anger over this.
More importantly than anything else, if the offense is not tailored to the talent on the roster, then we indeed have doom. 7 wins this year with and improved offense should be 9 wins in 2011. That is where the expectation level is, and if the team wins less than that then it is a failure, and the higher ups will start to question the hire, then the factions wil again appear, and then there wil be another messy divorce, and we wil be Notre Dame. That is what Brian is most upset about, he doesnt want to be the irish. This was supposed to be the splash hire. If Hoke doesnt turn out then we wil indeed be The south bend crowd.Brian and others like me just don't want us to be Notre dame. People wanted LLOyd out beacause he couldn't win the big game, everyone got tired of going 8-4. the factions wanted rose bowl wins. The factions wanted someone else. Well now the factions got us into this . Maybe Brian is being that crazy guy with the end is nye sign, or perhaps Brian is that guy that builds the ark before the floods come.Who knows. But if Brian is selling ticket for his ark, i will hedge my bets and by a seat. Because if the factions arise again, i would rather float on a boat, than swim all the way to south bend.
edit: Hoke just stated he would tailor his offense to the talent we have. I am still tracking the price for those ark tickets, but im also planning on good weather.
I still think the banner should be taken down.
"Emo Hour with Brian Cook"
Did anybody catch Mike Taylor's call? He blistered Dave Brandon and his process pretty bad. Wow.
I agree with Brian here and I don't think he is whining about anything. He is merely pointing out facts regarding the changing college football landscape and the inherent disadvantages at Michigan. People miss the point when they say USC did it with a pro style offense. He isn't saying we will never be a national power, nor is he rooting against UM. We hired a guy with moderate success at a lower level of competition, with no experience as a coordinator, who will return to running a scheme that may or may not have moderate success at the level Michigan wants to be. Not to mention the offensive coordinator he brought in has never before exhibited the ability to utilize, or even convince to stay, the best weapon in the conference. I myself will wait and see. However, I do believe Michigan is going to have a tough time getting back to a national power given the significant disadvantages in recruiting base. Also, people need to relax and not flip out when someone has a differing opinion than the one they hold.