i like 'em both
Cook on WTKA now
He is bringing up how Hoke was gruff and silly sounding and got no criticism and RR did.
Which is true.
I am sorry if I am not drinking the Kool aid yet. I really want Hoke to succeed but i wasn not as impressed as everyone else at his press conference. People criticzed RR for being inarticulate-Hoke to me was extremely inarticulate. He seemed to of course say all the right things but to me it was very scripted. I am also not impressed at the idea of Borges as coordinator. I am cautiosly pessimistic.
and after all the "Thank You's" the rest of that came from his heart.
OT: So far, I'd give Hoke a really high "intangibles" score. That counts for something.
On the subject of Borges, though, a lot of BoMoCarr fans (like the guy whose name rhymes with YAHOO) were trying to sell dissenters on the idea that Hoke could be a figurehead with an "all-star" cast of coordinators and assistants. That idea is in conflict with Borges as OC.
Yeah, but those same people's "All-Star" cast were almost uniformly coaches that were assistants at Michigan in the past. I don't care where the assistants have come from, I want the best that Hoke could get.
I'm in agreement on Borges though, not necessarily impressed with the hire. I will say one thing about him, he's done the true west coast offense at UCLA, led more of a power offense at Auburn and spread it out with a passing attack at SDSU. He at least seems willing to conform his style to either the head coach's desire (Auburn) or the ability at hand (SDSU). Hopefully, somewhere along the way, he's picked up some schemes to take advantage of a mobile QB.
Hoke says he won't try and put a square peg in a round hole!
Maybe if RR didn't do this, he'd still be here.
Yes, but unlike Rodriguez, Hoke seems to understand Midwestern Football. He seems to "get" Michigan. I'll bet he'll recruit *bigger* players for us. Guys like Mike Martin and David Molk will become tougher. I don't know what else to say ... I just FEEL better.
In all seriousness, there's probably something to the feel/fit business, and Hoke seems to have it. It has been hilarious, though, to see how he's been received by the Old Guard.
are you referring to the same Old Guard that, you know, actually won all of those Big Ten titles and a national championship?
That Old Guard?
The one that actually KNOWS this guy? And knows what it takes to WIN AT FOOTBALL??
And... they think he is a great hire and will get Michigan back to winning?
Yeah, scew them!
I will instead trust the opinions of internet whiner babies!
Yes, *that* Old Guard. With some exceptions, of course, the expression "deafening silence" comes to mind when I recall the RichRod hire and the months afterward. When there was noise (as with the #1 issue twisted beyond recognition by Diva Edwards), it often wasn't friendly.
Oh, at what point did I question the football credentials of the Old Guard? Are you one of those who'd exempt former players from criticism no matter what they do? Along the same lines, do you think Brian Cook is just an "Internet whiner baby?" Would you rather just read Rosenberg articles?
My point was to contrast the Old Guard's enthusiasm for Hoke with the meh reception they gave Rodriguez. You missed my point and, instead, got emotional.
Wait, are you saying guys who know, like, and played for Hoke support him more than they did a guy who they didnt know, was hired as basically a repudiation of the style of football that had been here for 40 years, who laid off pretty much every coach who they played under, discarded some pretty cherished traditions, and then went 15-22? Shocking!! I blame the Carr Cabal!
So, they thought something smelled in Denmark, and...
It turns out...THEY WERE RIGHT!
Well, I don't know about you, but the opinions of Charles Woodson, Tom Brady, Mike Hart and countless other former Wolverine greats counts for something.
The number of former players who have come out for this guy is overwhelming. That counts for something. Everyone who knows him or has played for his can't stop singing his praises. I can't wait to see Hoke turn us around and make those who are critical eat their words.
I get that some are pissed that RR wasn't treated fairly. To that, I agree. But let's not take that and turn it into resentment of Hoke.
One other note: I know that he is not an exciting hire, but let's look at the lat two Michigan hires:
1. Lloyd Carr - boring as all hell, takes over and wins a NC within 2 years, as well as numerous B10 titles
2. RR - big name hire, exciting coach, sizzle factor - breaks just about every single negative Michigan record en route to the 3 worst seasons in M histors
Not a criticism of RR - I supported him and was ALL IN from day 1, but the point is that sometimes the big name hires don't work as well as the hires that just fit the school.
Not to mention that these guys might actually have some insight into football, but they also personally know Brady Hoke. Anybody who has ever hired someone knows what a difference it makes to personally know the guy. Yes, that is not the only factor, but it is something, and we should allow ourselves to be encouraged by it.
but I would have taken 3 years of old guard Carr with Ryan Mallet than the last three with RR.
We would have been 8-3, 9-2 etc and not a NC but would have tied or won a Big Ten championship, gone to some good bowls and at least have been competitive with tTDS and MSU if not actually winning some of those games.
1. Mallett was leaving no matter who the coach was.
2. 1 returning offensive lineman with any experience. I guarantee we wouldn't have been 8-3, since whoever was the quarterback would have been on his back the entire season.
Stop re-writing history. The lack of upperclass talent and depth the past 3 years was not RR's fault, and would have been there no matter who the coach was.
My problem was with how RR came in and pretty much slaughtered the defensive side of the ball. There was talent on the defense in 2008, no one can deny that. He still managed to field the worst defense in Michigan history. All he cared about was installing his offense.
That ignores that the offense was epically untalented and inexperienced that year which led to that talented defense (which wasn't "all in" by many accounts) being put in horrible situations to defend.
Maybe this is true.
RichRod is gone. Does any Michigan fan actually want Hoke to be treated by the media the way RichRod was? I certainly don't. I don't see how a witch hunt against Hoke will help Michigan.
So sure, Brain might be stating the truth but why? To what end? What's the point?
What would be really bad, for mgoblog and for Michigan, is for Brain to take this coaching change personally and continue to point out the ways that Hoke has benefitted where RichRod did not so that Brain can be right.
I don't care who the coach is (provided he's honest.) I just want Michigan to win. If that's with Hoke (or Air Bud) as coach then GREAT AWESOME. I won't spend my time complaining that he was treated better than RichRod.
Is Cook implying the media reaction had anything to do with the fact that RR and his staff couldn't teach his players how to tackle?
RR was fired because he lost a bunch of games.
Hoke will also get fired if he loses a bunch of games.
Cook is whining about shit that doesn't matter.
He sounds like a whiny cry baby who is bitter about the coaching change. He needs to get over the fact that the guy he justifiable and sometimes unjustifiably defended got fired b/c he didn't win enough.
Dude... what Brian is saying is true.
I didn't get to hear all of what he said so far, but the bit I did catch I don't agree with. He said we can never recruit at the level of USC, Alabama and those schools and that a pro-offense won't work unless you can. I just don't agree with that and in fact if you look at the recruiting numbers it's completely un-true if you agree with recruiting rankings at all.
If you take out the last 3 or 4 years.....how many NFL players does Michigan have in the NFL vs. Alabama, USC, Texas and so on. I bet it's pretty comparable.
RR recruited a lot of players from Florida and we won the Big Ten and the Rose Bowl - well two of those things didn't happen.
Gee didn't Tom Brady come from the USC backyard...
I know, can you believe those Florida freshmean and sophmores didn't win a Rose Bowl after two years on campus?!?!
The facts still remain that RR went into Florida and got some good recruits.
ran a pro-style offense with great success. Can't agree with Brian on this one based on board comments. Have to catch the podcast later.
For someone to point this out. The people who are currently defending the spread to the death are just as shortsighted as the people who denigrated the spread a few years back.
I seriously think Brian needs to take a couple of weeks off on a vision quest or something to re-center himself. He's crossed the line from analysis into devotionalism at this point.
Support from the athletic department/alumni/former players only impacts what happens to you when you don't win. If your players are on board with you, and by all accounts that was the case, then you acquire high level talent and teach them to execute. If you do that, the rancor dies down and support grows. If you don't win, then I agree, that that determines whether you get the extra season/benefit of the doubt, or whatever. I would point you to the archives of this blog for evidence. At 5-0, everything is rosy and, although there are still going to be people with beefs/concerns, they become the minority voice. Lose to Michigan State, Iowa, and Penn State, and... DOOM again. Beat Illinois in a ridiculous game, and mood is positive again. Point is, as many have said YOU MUST WIN FOOTBALL GAMES. If Brady Hoke loses football games, he will not survive. Because of the support that he has on the inside and near the program, he WILL have more leeway than RR did no doubt. That might get him an extra season or two when he shouldn't, but he still must win.
It's not Rich's job to "kick the players off the team", it's to merge the team, old and new, and make everyone feel welcome. Not my way or the highway. Sure, if a guy is just feeling lazy, and doesn't want to work, let him go. There were some of those players who left. But if they stick around, they must be doing the work...so is it something else? Are you making them feel like it's still their team? (At the press conference yesterday, it was reiterated it's supposed to be about the players). Or are you saying things like "Not after I saw what I was left with", alienating the players you inherited, rather than making them feel like "your guys"? It's easy to make the star players who are getting time and pub to feel good about the change. It's the guys who aren't as good, but still count you have to reach out to.
Even if you don't think that's the case, it's not like the other method worked out for him. Having those players around and "all in" certainly would have made him more successful, and he'd still be employed. I know a senior cornerback would have looked good in the secondary rather than struggling to make an NFL team. (There may have been some bad advice there, but if he was really loving his time at Michigan, he might have stayed for a surer draft position).
I'll assume you did not intentionally fire off a personal attack on approximately 45% of the MGoCommunity. If not, you had better re-read what you write and think about how it comes off before you client the "save" button.
If you did, in fact, send a personal attack our way, I hope damn well that Hoke is successful (for many reasons). If not, and if Rodriguez goes somewhere else and kicks a--, you're going to look like a total and complete idiot.
that RR will never again have a winning season ANYWHERE with a defenisve staff as incompetent as the one HE CHOSE at Michigan.
He fucked that up. ROYALLY. The buck stops with HIM.
Hell, I put more care and thought into what kind of shoes I buy my kids than he did in picking the greatest collection of defensive imbecils ever assembled.
131 years of Michigan football proves my point. The 3 worst defenses BY FAR in our program's history.
You CANNOT fuck up staffing decisions that bad and expect to stay. Sorry.
Bingo. Don't forget the special teams. A head coach cannot let 2/3 of the team be utterly neglected/incompetently led. I really like RR, but he failed because of this.
Not only defense and special teams, but IMO the play calling this year was questionable at best. Too many times on third and short would we run shotgun sweeps with Vincent Smith.
Not to mention the fact that he couldn't teach his players to hold on to the damn ball, or try some other slot ninja besides Jeremy Gallon to return kicks- which may or may not have lost us at least one game... as much as I like RR, I am worried he had a bit of the same syndrome that doomed Charlie Weis, and I hate making that comparison, but it just seems like he really only focused on one thing the whole time he was here and that was getting his offense installed and "lighting it up." Unfortunately nothing else seemed to matter.
But, remember, he had a stud DC at WVU and his teams there were great. If his biggest failure was not finding a better DC, I'll accept that. But you know he's going to win somewhere else and win big. You know it.
RR will only win big if he goes to a non-AQ program (that includes the Big East IMO). RR did not "win big" until Miami (YTM), Va Tech and BC left the Big East. Once the Big East transmogrified into Conference USA++ he was able to "win big" and that was likely because the newcomers (L'Ville, UConn, USF and UC) were still stocked full of players who weren't good enough to get offers from the likes of WVU or Pitt.
You know it...
Either way, he'll win and win big. Maybe Rodriguez was simply not a good fit for Michigan and I can accept that. But he was the coach that was hired and he was/is a good coach. Trying to discredit him simply angers those that supported him through thick and thin. Hoke is the coach now and I, for one, will support him more and more but its going to take time to be "All In" this time around and people need to accept this and try to have some compassion. If not, its going to be a very bumpy 2011.
He was our HEAD COACH! He needed to oversee the entire program, not just the offense. He was too stubborn to fire the defensive staff and find a better one. He's not going to win somewhere else if he comes in with the same attitude and stubborness he had when he came to Michigan, period.
RR won't have Tony Gibson, the weakest of the weak links. And he probably won't have GERG either.
Perhaps he should have thought of that in year 2.
It makes you sound like a raving lunatic.
Rodriguez will go somewhere else and do well. Most likely in the Big East or ACC. You can win there from time to time with a poor defense and very good offense. It doesn't work at Michigan, it won't work in the Big Ten, and it doesn't work in the SEC. There's no doubt the passion Coach Rod had, and he knows his offensive football, but his downfall will always be how he couldn't let the defensive coordinator coach that side of the ball the best way they knew how. It's a shame but it's time to move on, and wish Coach Rod the best and wish Coach Hoke the best.
I would say about 88% of what you say is made up and baseless and it is very clear from your comments that you are as bitter about the last 3 years as some people are about coach Hoke.
My point is you're acting all high and mighty and claiming the summit because RR got fired and adding absolutely nothing to any conversation just like the "whiners and excuse-makers" you are condemning.
Perhaps you need to let go of the past too my friend.
Stop while you're behind. Save yourself some heartache.
You're one angry, angry person.
But we had several surveys that supported about 1/3 wanted to keep RR, 1/3 wanted to fire RR and another 1/3 wasnt sure.
I you do a search, you can find that info.
He looks like an idiot now. No need for hypotheticals.
Jesus, dude. Chill out.
This is soooo true. I have done nothing but whined for 3 years. I feel like a two-year-old.