spoiler alert: i linked this
Good luck with the Ducks. Give Pharoah our regards.
Oregon is terrible. They're only winning against Colorado right now by 56 points. And Ohio State hasn't scored a single point yet.
70 points through 3 quarters? Whatever...
I was joining him in his sarcasm. Hi. We haven't met.
and they'll probably drop to #7 this week based on yet another unimpressive performance
That's another open spot....DeMario Jones might just end up here after all.
Time to unbuckle?
Time to unbuckle?
whatever. we've built some decent depth at corner and are in good shape with a lot of top 2014 corners
Takes a visit ends up elsewhere. just sayin
Our policy with taking visits when committed is so flawed that we have to say good bye to this poor kid before he even decommits?! He could end up not liking either visit, but refuse to come back to Big Blue because 17 & 18 year old kids are not humble enough to say, 'just kidding, I want to come back', even if that's what he feels deep down. So sad. This policy needs to be changed to realistic expectations. These kids should be able to stay committed. That way they have Big Blue on their minds when visiting other campuses and its not 'wide open' because they know they are no longer committed anywhere else. Awful.
I haven't heard that we're "saying goodbye" to him yet. Have you?
Also, if you make a commitment to something, you should be held accountable for that commitment. It is, and should be, a two-way street between coaches and players. It's not about "refusing to come back." They don't get that opportunity. They broke their commitment, so it's done if they go on a visit.
I don't know how it's unrealistic to expect someone to live up to a commitment they've made. They know the policy going in. It's not like the coaches are pulling the wool over these poor, unsuspecting kids' eyes.
Also, "Big Blue" is Kentucky, the New York Football Giants, or a French film starring Jean-Marc Barr. Thanks.
If you're unsure then don't commit so early, the coaches tell recruits this policy all the time and kudos to them for sticking to their word. One player won't make our break what the coaches are selling to our kids.
How would you feel when we turn McQuay away because we have no room and then Conley takes his visits and decides to go to OSU two weeks before signing day leaving us no chance to back fill for him? This policy is awesome and the fact that Hoke and company are strong enough recruiters that they can enforce it speaks volumes.
I hate that.
At least he didn't call us MU
I like the policy. If you give your word you stick to it. Our policy has nothing to do with whether or not Conley wants to explore and it doesn't preclude him from recommitting later, but we shouldn't hold a spot for someone that is on the fence.
I don't want to be negative nancy, but sheesh losing two of our top 3 rated prospects in this class would be extremely frustrating. If they know Hoke's policy, why are they commiting early, then months later saying...oh I didin't know I'd get more offers and now I want to take visits. Just wait to make your committment forgodssake.
this class. He is a three star CB.
Rivals and Scout are the two ratings that really matter, in my opinion. Well, as much as ranking services can matter, at least.
I hear that, but I was providing a frame of reference.
ESPN has him as our #2 rated recruit with a score of 85, only behind Morris. If you want to argue what other sources say fine, but why bother? The point is the same.
He is a three star on Rivals, and a four star on Scout. He is not better than Thomas or Lewis as a DB. No, the point is not the same. He is a good prospect, but to say he is one of UM's top 3 prospects is stretching it.
Nobody listing a TTB rating? Lol. I actually value those because Magnus bothers to look at individual recruits for more than 2 seconds and think objectively.
with 23 commits before the season started, we expected a decommit or two. Good luck Conley
You can never have enough good cornerbacks, so I hate to hear this.
Man we knew this was coming for sometime now. Kid is having an incredible year especially on offense. You just hate to lose a tall rangy athletic guy with ball skills and speed like that.
Good luck to him.
Michigan will be fine. The current staff has done a great job in evaluating and recruiting talent, so not worried in the least.
"Michigan was basically the only school I was looking at," he said. "The coaches always communicate very well, and I just really like these coaches. I don't want them to think that I'm waiting to hold out. I just wanted to get this over with and make my decision." ... "What they do on the field, I just want to play on that type of defense," he said. "I just know this is where I want to go."
Like most children...Mama will always have a lot of power to sway their kids. One way or another I'd bet the farm he at least visits Oregon before NSD.
I will believe bill when he visits.
All I can say is Mcquay!
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but if you like NFL type players, you can watch, you know, the NFL. The variety of offensive/defensive schemes in college football is one of the reasons I personally like it better.
You mean you don't like watching 32 teams run the same 7 or 8 formations? The NFL is fun to watch because, well it's football. But it's become such a copycat league that every team's playbook is more or less interchangable. Except maybe the Patriots because they actually show a shred of ingenutiy.
As far as Conley is concerned, best of luck kid. I wish things could have worked here because he could have been a player in this defense but our DB recruiting has been pretty outstanding so I don't think we're going to have to fold the team because of this. Jourdan Lewis, T. Rich, Blake, Douglas, Stribling, etc. will be just fine with our without Mr. Conley.
Any reason a recruit can't simply decommit and let the coaches know? Then he can take his visits while the coaches look for someone else. I'd think being straight with the coaches would be the best way to leave yourself a shot at coming back. I know P. Brown last season tried to be sneaky, and I get the impression Dawson did as well.
... a kid commits to Michigan, takes another couple of visits and thereby has his scholarship "unreserved" for him, and then recommits. To Michigan.
Presumably, Michigan coaches might now take the opportunity to now look for other kids at CB. Okay. What if nobody else appears who is a superior talent and who is willing to commit, while Conley takes official visits; after which, Conley comes back to Hoke and Mattison and says, "I'd like to commit to Michigan, again. And I'll be signing my national letter of intent and faxing it back to you on Signing Day..."?
Personally, I think you will be waiting a long time for them to accept that fax. It would make their policy toothless.
The policy is, "If you visit elsewhere, your scholarship will be offered to others."
I am not aware of there being a policy that says, "If you visit elsewhere, Michigan is no longer interested in you."
I tried to propose the exact scenario that would not render the policy toothless.
Yeah, because they went all guns blazing to try to real Pharaoh Brown back in, and according to Dawson's own coach told the kick to essentially kick rocks. What precedent is there for them recruiting a kid who desires to take a visit? I doubt Mr. Conley will be the first.
Brown was sneaky about his visit and it sounds like Dawson was, too. I can't imagine they'd refuse to continue recruiting a great player who was up front to the coaches and honest about his intentions.
...but I presume that the reason that Thomas Wilcher said that the Dawson/Michigan "ship has sailed, sunk, whatever" is because Dawson himself knew that taking a visit was crossing a line, and he didn't care. Dawson no longer wanted to be a Michigan commit because he no longer wants to go to Michigan.
Mind you, my post was not predicting anything. And I was not trying to say anything in particular about the cases of Dawson or even Conley.
All I was pointing out is that the nature of the policy, technically, is that the scholarship just gets offered to others.
Happy Trails young man. Hate seeing top in-state talent leave, but if we end up trading Conley for McQuay, and Dawson for Pocic then I suppose I can cope.
Conley is from Ohio
Yeah, I just remembered too. That's the beer talking, lol.
WOTS is that the staff already reached out to Pocic to see if he was still interested and he basically told them to "talk to the hand." Pocic ain't coming to UM and I very much doubt that McQuay ends up in Ann Arbor as well, unless FSU schedules a home-and-home with UM in the next few years.
Something tells me this staff wouldn't trust a kid if he decommitted and then wanted to recommit. Just a hunch on my part...hence the no visits thing. They put their trust in you to honor your word and once you go back on it I doubt they trust in it again.
This staff believes your word is your bond. It will pay dividends in the end.
does visiting other places mean they don't have the option to come here, or they aren't considered "committed", and their spot is up for grabs?
It means you are no longer committed. I don't think it means he can't ever possibly come back and recommit. Hoke keeps in touch with all kinds of kids he recruited, yet committed to other programs, so I wouldn't expect the door to be forever closed. Likely he'll end up someplace else, though.
Michigan's coaches stopped recruiting Pharaoh Brown and David Dawson, but both of those guys were shady about it.
We'll see what happens with Conley, since he seems to be fairly straight forward about it...
If we lose Conley, that sucks, but if it means we pick up McQuay instead, I can live with that.
Landing Green or Treadwell would really turn my frown upside down
I would rather we beat Nebraska and go win the rose bowl, but that's just me.
(treadwell and Greene would be great but tonight we have bigger issues)
I don't think we're going to win the Rose Bowl tonight.
Just a hunch.
Yes but we almost certainly won't win if we don't get there and we don't get here is we don't win the big ten championship game ad we don't win the big ten championship game if we are not in it and we are (likely) not in it if we lose tonight.
They aren't mutually exclusive. In fact I would argue to at least a slight degree, they are linked.
Soo how many decommitments is it gonna take for Hoke's policy becomes a problem. Say we get 10. I can't imagine all of the replacements of those would be 4-5 stars. Most likely a bunch of 3 stars.
It isn't the problem. This is Michigan and we're not a safety school. If you commit, mean it. Treadwell and Green know that and so do all of the recruits. If you don't like the policy, don't commit.
This is not a matter of Hoke's policy being a "problem," it's a matter of 17-18 year old kids making one of the most important decisions of their lives and actually sticking to it. Hoke expects kids to honor their commitment and his policy is essentially like any committed relationship.
Take marriage, for example. How would you feel if your future wife/husband tells you about five months after you got engaged, "I'm not so sure about this marriage thing. I think I should've slept with a few more people first. I'm gonna go do that, okay?"
This is not far from the reality of this situation. Conley wants to test the waters again and Hoke has made it clear that he will do the same. I don't see a problem with anything that reinforces a philosophy of honoring your word and following through with your decisions.
Plus, who's to say that this policy would make a single difference on a kid like Conley, who's recruitment has ramped up significantly during this season? How do we know that not having this honor policy would really stop him or Dawson from taking visits or that Hoke will slam the door shut in his face, should he decided, once and for all, that Michigan is the right school and we still have an open spot? It seems to me that this policy actually PREVENTS more things like this happening.
Anyways, we can't blame Conley for wanting to take visits. He's killing it out there and schools are finally taking notice. We should instead be doing backflips on the coaching staff's talent evaluation skills.
Ok. Ill ask again. Would you consider his policy a problem if 10 kids decommited because they wanted to visit other schools? Year after year?
No. Kids should go to the school they want to go to. If they think they made a hasty decision, then they should explore other options. That said, why should Hoke play the waiting game for some of these kids while there are guys willing to fight and claw their way onto the team? Talent isn't everything man. Sometimes passion and loyalty are worth more.
Call up McQuay. Plays better against better competition.
I do not care about, nor care for, the young men that decide to leave this program. I stand by Hoke's visit policy 100%. This is about more than an individual. This is about Michigan and what this University stands for. I will not worry because for every Conley/Dawson/Brown, there are 10 Ferns/Morris/Kovacs/Robinson that know that this is the greatest school in the world and treat it as such.
Michael Ferns is about 16 months away from signing a NLI. Don't count your chickens before they hatch.
Was gonna say the same thing. We have no way who will stick and who won't
What? "Leave the program"? They aren't enrolled so they aren't in the program. This is the arrogance of the coaching staff that keeps Michigan from being elite. These are 18 year old kids who want to visit other schools. Why isn't a verbal commitment enough for this staff? Michigan has a great class but I don't like the no visit policy to be honest.
Are we allowed to worry about Conley now that he's presumably gone, Ace?
Hope he stays blue.
And I think the attitude of anyone that says more room for mcquay is naive.
Does this seem to becoming a trend?
Because it's happened twice. So it's obviously a trend.
Everyone upset at Michigan for their no visit policy needs to view the situation in reverse. What if a kid had multiple offers, committed to Michigan and the other schools he was considering filled up at his position. Then Michigan decides they like someone better and stops recruiting him and tells him him they found someone better. He then has to look at new schools since the others he was considering are all full at his position...he has to settle for a lower tier school Wouldn't everyone be upset with Michigan if this was the case? Michigan commits to a kid just as much as the kid commits to Michigan. They are considering multiple players at each position and lately it seems have to turn kids away because they are full at that position. Then if one of those kids decommits they have to search for others and often times the players they were looking at earlier are now committed elsewhere (see Pocic). I think this is a very fair policy and holds both parties accountable...Michigan will consider your position filled and won't try and replace you, player will be considered committed and won't look to find replacements i.e. visit other schools.
I agree 100%. I'd also add this policy protects UM as well as the kid. For example, say a kid is wavering, takes visits to other schools but Hoke & Co bank on him receiving a scholly from UM. Come signing day, UM could be left holding the bag with no real options if the kid chooses elsewhere.
That a kid who's been a part of this recruiting class for months, skills are being belittled because he might not end up blue... If he decides to stick with this commitment or not he's a hell of a high school player and playmaker, could make a big difference on either side of the ball...
I know.. it is amazing to see the "oh well, we're loaded at that position" posts. Probably by the same people who 2 months ago said Conley will be the star of the class at DB. All of this recruiting is guesswork - you want to load up on as much talent as possible and hope 10-14 pan out for you out of every class. Conley could be a stud or a dud at the next level who knows - but everyone saying "well we're loaded anyhow" doesnt know that. Every guy we have recruited could be a NFL star in 8 years or someone who doesnt make it past JR yr in college.
We could lose more, we will definetely get a few more before NSD. It's just how it goes.
Maybe we wants to play offense?
I don't think people realize the dynamic athlete this kid is. Guys like this with that combination of size, athleticism, and speed don't grow on trees.
Until next year when there are another group of players just like him. Don't get me wrong, I wish he would come here because I think he's a good player but some people are acting like this is a once-in-a-generation type player we're losing here. He's a borderline 4* recruit, he's not a program maker, he's not going to single handedly lead us back to glory. He's a damned good athlete and a damned good football player but yes, they kinda do grow on trees.
Yea its easy to say that next year we'll get another guy but can you guarantee and be certain on that? You have a guy blowing up right before our eyes that we were ahead of the curve on. Anybody who knows football knows you don't get corners like this everyday.
Again, he's a borderline 4* recruit. If we end up losing him then yeah, it really sucks. But stop acting like he's Charles Woodson Incarnate. We expected some attrition from this class given how early it filled up and now it's happening and people are freaking. I can't guarantee that we will get a player just like him next year or even the year after but I can guarantee you that Hoke will continue to bring in top flight talent and this team will continue to grow and progress and get back to what we expect and demand out of our program. Perhaps I overstepped in my previous post but this isn't a consensus 5* player that will shatter our class. We will be just fine with our without Mr. Conley.
Come on my man. I could care less about stars from these "experts" from recruiting sites and our coaches don't either because they know a football player with great potential and attributes when they see one. When we offered Conley, he wasn't highly rated or coveted and had very few offers if any. Now he's killing it on both sides of the ball and he's starting to blow up. And I never said he was the next Woodsoon who was a Heisman winner and Michigan great. If your telling me that corners with size, speed, and ball skills are a dime a dozen then God bless and we'll agree to disagree. Leave the stars alone and go with what you know about football.
Stars mean crap. Jake Ryan was a 3 star with no offers outside of MAC schools. Our starting interior D-lineman Will Campbell was a 5 star national recruit - he has bombed. I have no idea if Conley will bomb or be a stud. But to downplay it is silly. Do you know how many stars Woodson had? Curious. not that it MATTERS.
First World problems. Remember the recruiting famine of the Rich Rod years?
Where is he?
JT might have been a dynamic athlete, but Conley is a long speedy guy who has been torching defenses this year. Flip to the other side and he's a long rangy, tall corner with speed. I can't recall JT as a recruit, but I just know Hoke is recruiting different athletes not just when it comes to body types and talent, but most importantly character. I weouldn't compare what he's putting together to what RR was doing.
The only thing that really bothers me about it is how he claimed to grow up a Michigan fan. It seems sad to think that you'd commit to the school you grew up rooting for, and decommit just on the chance that one of these other schools were better.
Oh well. Buyer's remorse.
I enjoyed seeing his stock rise over the last several months, and he has seemed to grow into a real threat, both defensively and on offense. As they say though; "it is, what it is." I'm in the camp that can't have enough talent in the secondary, and I do think we are in need of some additional kids, so hopefully we'll find another to fill that spot.
Ok, now I can turn my focus to tonights game, and worry about this later.......we'll be fine.
Go Blue and kick Nebraska's Ass!
was stated above, Conley said he MIGHT visit Oregon and Ohio State. He told this to a couple of reporters after his last game. Bill Greene obviously went with what would grab headlines instead of what was actually said. This is nothing new with Conley and I am sure the coaches will talk with him about this situation. However, I don't think this constant talk about visiting other schools is making Hoke happy...
but AZ is coming back.
Who moved the thread?
Let the kid do what he wants to do.
If he comes to Michigan great if not then good luck where ever he goes and trust Brady Hoke can recruit another diamond in the rough.
This is Michigan. Brady Hoke will recruit another diamond from the diamonds
Then I'll have concern or not.
As for Hoke's policy, it's not like he's not up front about it...if you commit you don't take visits.
This is Michigan.
When do we start to worry about less heralded recruits only committing to Michigan as a spring board for better offers? It's feasible to believe it was not the case with Dawson given his high ranking, but for others like Conley and Pharaoh Brown who were both under the radar with no major D1 offers before their Michigan commits, the argument can be made that this was their original intent. I hope players will not use Hoke's policy against Michigan in this manner but who knows!
I don't think that's an issue.
This is unlikely. In reality, they are high school kids that are making a major decision. There isn't a conspiracy here.
wondering if our no-visit policy is a detriment in recruiting top-tier kids. Works on "Michigan" men... but the top dogs... the ones that require a fight? just a thought.
What's a Michigan Man?
The bigger issue to me is it seems when a guy Michigan has a committment really blows up in his senior year other teams come calling and it seems to be working. Yes its only 2 guys right now but would be preferable for Michigan to be seen as the ultimate destination rather than a great place to call home unless Alabama, USC, Oregon, Florida, et al call me.
I don't think we will be hurt by this decommitment. He seems like a very good player, but we have other needs we can focus on. Personally, I would like to see some more defensive linemen and wide receivers in this class