Via twitter from Sam Webb:
Have confirmed that #Michigan players JT Floyd, Will Hagerup, and Brandon Hawthorne have indeed been suspended
Violation of team rules, according to official Michigan Football Twitter account.
You mean an "oops-oops"?
Make them run until they puke. Then, make them run some more.
Drug use or poor grades. They are purposefully vague to protect the players. That is a good thing.
speculation adds nothing to the reality.
Last time Hagerup was suspended, it was because of weed. We saw Fitz get suspended because of a crime. Is it really that hard to believe that Hagerup was caught with the other two, doing the same thing that got him suspended before? Or that a suspension was because of another crime, as the past would indicate? I understand your anger if it was baseless speculation, but it clearly isn't.
It is awesome that you can gauge my emotions from a simple one line internet post. Do you think you can teach me these divine powers you possess?
Oh wait... I believe you are speculating, because you know nothing about the actuality of my emotional state. Anger is not reflected anywhere in my post, possibly because I am not angry. But thanks for demonstrating your remarkable and unique skill!
Really trying to tell me that you're not angry?
Not angry, but I am tired. And you might want to get your sarcasm meter checked out too.
I bet you're oodles of fun in person.
YOU better settle down! So much anger!
It's good to protect the players so let's baselessly speculate as to what they did.
They don't come in and get finalized till next week.
i heard from a player they all failed drug test
Fascist control on the Appy State Weed story (like they usually do, of course). Let the story out and maybe a light bulb goes on in a few of our players heads. When you smoke that shit as an athlete, IT AFFECTS YOU!!! NEGATIVELY!!!
I have a couple of roommates that turn into mindless vegetables every night after they smoke that shit. But when you try to point out that its a waste of their time and numbing them from dealing and improving in their lives... its like you slapped them accross the face in public.
Its not easy to talk someone out of being a pot head.
I agree that it is genrally negative for an athlete to use marijuana. But your argument is short sighted. Not everyone who uses marijuana turns into a mindless vegetable. Some people use it thereputically, or for creative purposes. And some people prefer it to alcohol use, and I don't see you rallying against that. Either way we don't know what they were suspended for so we can't just assume it was marijuana.
Every 7 or 8 times out of 10 you hear "violation of team rules" in college sports it's a failed drug test. Mainly because if they break the law, you get a police report. If it's cheating or something with class, it becomes a university issue. If it's being late to practice, the coach makes an example out of the player and tells the media the player was late to practice (and typically that's a lost starting job, not an entire game).
Plus, when you see Hagerup mentioned, it's a fair assumption that it was smoking weed.
J.T. Floyd, Brandin Hawthorne & Will Hagerup have been suspended for the Outback Bowl for a violation of team rules.
J.T. Floyd, Brandin Hawthorne & Will Hagerup have been suspended for the Outback Bowl for not respecting the 5 hookers that Craig James allegedly killed while attending SMU
I am, however, pleased that our coaches have integrity.
is what it's all about
Not entirely what it's all about but certainly separates us from many other programs.
Frustrating but not the end of the world. I doubt we'll ever learn what they did.
So close to the bowl...have to stay strong as a player. I am assuming the suspension means that if the players do what they are told they have a chance to come back to the team (except those graduating)?
In the case of Hagerup and Hawthorne, I hope so. There was a rumor floating around that the three had been kicked off the team. I hope it's just that, a rumor.
that's now at least 2 instances that we know of for hagerup. dump him. use these 7 schollies left to recruit another guy this year. at least we still have wile who is solid, imo.
I'm about done with Hagerup too, but I do trust these coaches. If they decide it's time to move on, I'm 100% with them though. If another chance is in the cards, then fine, but it should be his last life.
the next time Will shanks one?
for two bowl games and even worse, the game. He obviously has not learned his lesson. However good a punter he is, I think he should be permanently kicked off the team with Stonum as the precedent.
He has let his team mates down for three crucial games ...
For Floyd and Hawthrone, this is it because they graduate. And given that this is Hagerup's second run in with the "ol' violation of team rules" this might be it for him too.
I think this is more than two run-ins for our mortified punter friend
I could only remember the other one off the top of my head, but there certainly could be more.
Yeah, this is the third. OSU game in '10, first four games in '11, now this.
Sorry to say, this should be it for him.
Three strikes (that we know of) and you should be out.
You're pic made me literally LOL in McDonalds. Bearded Jack, ftw. Well done sir.
you just said "you are pic", right?
THAT made me LOL. Well done, sir.
Apologies. My attention to grammar fades when I am eyebrow deep in McDoubles and fries.
Beyond loving the show, I'm keeping this avatar with Bearded Jack until we win a Big 10 title. Hopefully, I can change it to Happy Jack sometime in the next season or two.
the first four weeks as a sophomore, and now this. Three strikes and you're done. It's time to move on, but we"ll always have the mortified punter gif.
Hagerup's 2nd strike (that we know of)
likley has had many strikes/chances
he may be offered the opportunity to complete his education without a michgan football schoalrship
2nd strike under Brady Hoke. Remember he missed the OSU game in 2010 with RR
Hagerup sure manages to get himself into a lot of trouble
I'm surprised by the news of JT, but Hawthorne has displayed some questionable behavior on the field throughout the season. Hagerup? Well, this isn't his first time around the block. I have to believe his leash was already shortened quite a bit.
I'm confused as to how Hawthorne has displayed questionable behaviour on the field and how that is relevant to him being suspended?!
Have you watched the games, particularly special teams?
but i also noticed his crazy play. his kickoff coverage only occasionally resulted in a tackle, but a lot of the time he would just demolish whoever tried to block him. there were a few games this year where other teams' players got penalties, or should have gotten penalties, for retaliating on subsequent kickoffs after getting owned by him. once, the other team got a penalty because he responded to an attempted double team by destroying the first blocker and tackling the second in a way that made it look like he was the victim. i thought the guy had leapt on hawthorne with some sort of flying scissors kick, but after i watched the replay, it was pretty obvious hawthorne had just attacked the dude.
that was on a return for a touchdown by northwestern. hawthorne was so busy retaliating that he let the runner go right by him. thankfully nw got flagged for a penalty.
I don't think it has anything to do with this news, but he did take a completely boneheaded penalty on a kickoff against Nebraska.
As a reminder, can we please keep this discussion to facts at hand and speculation involving the big green field with white lines and hashes? I'm sure details will be reported quickly, no need to try and guess what bad events might have transpired at this point.
and I agree that Hagerup kind of has obvious speculation about what he did coming, just a general reminder that randomly guessing felonies or whatever other team rules violations this could be is pretty pointless and potentially damaging.
Hawthorne has always been an up-and-down, emotional player.
Furthermore, I fully believe that he would have played more throughout his career - especially over the last two seasons - if not for attitude issues. I don't know if he played a single down of defense this year, even in blowout situations. When Greg Mattison was asked about Hawthorne, Mattison almost seemed angry when he responded about Hawthorne needing to be "more physical." His response hinted to me that it was not only about physicality, but some underlying issues there.
So when Mattison explicitly says it's about physicality, you take that as a hint that it is not about physicality. Ah.
I think part of it is about physicality. He's not the most disciplined player.
But maybe you're right - these coaches never say one thing publicly and then do something else. Like when they dressed up what's-his-name in the #32 jersey to hide the fact that Jordan Kovacs was injured. Or when they said Ricky Barnum was the team's top option at center, and then put in Elliott Mealer for the entire season. Or...
Lets not twist this. You said that Mattison's comment that it was about physicality hinted that it was not about physicality.
Your statement was not "it's about more than physicality". It was that Mattison, by explicitly saying it was about physicality, was implying the exact opposite. You used his quote, that was the precise opposite of your belief, to support your belief. I'm not saying you're wrong - I'm saying that using Mattison's quote which directly contravenes your belief as a supporting argument is absurd.
Look, it's obvious you're just looking for things that I say to criticize. Here is my direct quote from the post you're talking about:
"His response hinted to me that it was not only about physicality, but some underlying issues there."
I don't know what to tell you other than to suggest that maybe you should read more carefully or research how "not only . . . but" statements work.
No Magnus. You doing that would be tantamount to me claiming that this post I'm replying to is actually an indication that you think you're Adam Lambert. Because that's the degree to which Mattison's claim addresses your point.
This is a nice way of glossing over the fact that you misread my post and then attacked me for it.
I'm not going to be responding to you past this point. I've wasted enough time on the topic, and frankly, there's no point. Your opinion is yours, and mine is mine. That's the end for me.
I didn't mis-read your post. You decided to distort it's meaning, because it's stupid.
That explains the Norfleet to CB move.
If Floyd getting suspended for one game explains Norfleet's move to CB, then that opens a whole other can of bad news. Namely that the coaches don't feel good about all the rest of our CBs that they feel a 5'6" kid playing the position for two weeks is better.
Um depth? No one said he was the new starter.
There could be many reasons why Norfleet was moved the corner, but if it was because one player is gone for one game, it's not for depth. We still have Avery, Ricardson and Hollowell, plus Wilson has played nickel corner as well. That's plenty of depth for one game. I think the move more gas to so with the future; I don't think the coaches are happy with the DBs in general considering the extreme amount we're recruiting.
We now have only 4 CBs on our roster (Taylor, Avery, Richardson, and Hollowell). Wilson is in the two-deep at safety and can't be counted on to play CB. We are now down our 2 opening day starters at CB (Countess & Floyd) and lost CB depth with transfer of Talbott and Carter. This move makes perfect sense for a one game bowl situation. The coaches have to prepare for the possibility of multiple injuries.
There is a reason we are taking 4 CBs in the upcoming class. We have no depth there. It has nothing to do with the players that are already there.
i personally think it is more for Norfleet to cover SC's small and fast WR that is 5'8''..
Terry will be out there, and Avery and Taylor. Not good, but won't be terrible. SC suspended an OL and WR, so that hampers the sting of losing JT.
The WR has 8 catches this year, and the lineman is a redshirt freshman who doesn't play. I don't really think those suspensions cancel out the loss of our starting cornerback and starting punter. Hell, Hawthorne is more impactful than Kyle Harris (South Carolina's lineman).
Floyd would be one of the last people I'd expect this from based on what I've heard from him in interviews and whatnot. I guess I probably would have said the same about Fitz though... College kids will be college kids I suppose. Good thing SC's passing game is pretty weak.
..plus kid is from South Carolina. He will regret this for a long time. Also, isn't the second incident with Hagerup? Will, the Outlaw Punter.....strongest leg in the Wild Midwest!
I am not doubting that the punishment is the right call. I just wish for Floyd's sake, he wasn't involved in something that required this kind of punishment. As much heat as that guy has taken in the past several years, he had a really good season. It would have been nice to see him have one last solid game.
This is Hagerup's third suspension.
He's turning into the punter version Stephen Garcia...
3rd incident. Suspension from RichRod for the '10 OSU game, Suspension from Hoke for the first 4 games of '11, and now this.
Matt Wile....step on up.
Why? There are some rules that, no doubt, merit an automatic suspension no matter what year you are. Are you saying Hoke should just suspend the rules for guys who are seniors?
We don't know what it is, but there are a large number of perfectly reasonable explanations that justify the suspension without being "larger." Would anyone be shocked to hear that a senior got a little loose with his academics and wound up in eligible, for example?
Isn't this a third suspension for Hagerup? If so, you've got to wonder if this could have longer term consequences.
Might just be a suspension for now, and then a "perhaps Michigan isn't the place for you" discussion in the offseason.
Hagerup is done here. 3rd strike, issues with his attitude, roster spots valuable...
Interesting turn of events, to put it mildly.
At least Forcier has that pooch punt down.
Hope he doesn't get suspended.or anything.
Tate getting suspended? Staying eligible is easy, all you have to do is go to class.
Matt Wile has punted before and has done a good job. The only thing that will hurt from this is Courtney Avery instead of JT Floyd.
more like Norfleet not avery.. least he could stick with SC's fast WR that is also small
Isn't Floyd your specialist in getting burned long? I could be thinking of someone else
Yes, he is. This might be a blessing in disguise, really.
Nearly every time there is an open reliever its Floyd... Still hate to see kids do stupid things...
When I see "key defensive player", I'm thinking Jake Ryan, not the guy WRs lick their chops to match up against.
He's still drunk from celebrating their worthless undefeated season...
Did part of my comment upset you, or was it inaccurate? Feel free to take jabs at our secondary weaknesses, namely our senior CB that routinely falls down in coverage.
J.T. makes me nervous as shit back there in man to man coverage.
Guess you're going to be beside yourself now.
So we let a convicted felon play almost the entire season...but forbid a senior from playing his final game in the winged helmet against his hometown team?
Gotta figure whatever Floyd did is bad, real bad. Like felony bad.
Frank Clark was convicted of a felony during the offseason. He only missed one game, so the to force a senior to miss his final game in his home state it had to be a relatively severe transgression.
So we let a convicted felon play almost the entire season after his suspension...but forbid a senior from playing his final game in the winged helmet against his hometown team?
FTFY. Players get suspended for lots of dumb reasons. That doesn't mean this is necessarily worse than another suspension.
Actually Frank Clark is not a convicted felon, as long as he holds up his end of the bargain under the Holmes Youthful Trainee Act
was he convicted of a felony? Yes. Therefore, regardless of what stays on his record he is still a convicted felon.
Timing is everything.
At least 2 that we know of. I wonder if we see a punter in this recruiting class now.
This is #3 that we know of.
Wile has two years of eligibility left, and has proven to be a good punter during Hagerup's intermittent absences. I don't think we need two scholarship punters; Wile only got a scholarship in the first place as a backup kicker back when it looked like Gibbons wasn't going to pan out.
Says a lot about his personal discipline. This is now habit forming. Gotta wonder how detrimental it would be to keep him around much longer.
I can't figure out why the earlier report was censored:
Heard from several that as of now, U-M will be down a key defensive player for the Outback Bowl. Will wait for the program to announce who.
Maybe this is why Norfleet is suddenly playing CB?
Mod edit: The threshold for saying a player is kicked off the team for potentially illegal behavior is higher than unsubstantiated rumors. Speculation that names particular players and/or suggests those players have legal or other serious problems should be kept off the board unless a credible source comes forward to report. If you think you are a credible source, I encourage you to email Brian at the address at the top of the page. JGB.
When it was posted, it was just speculation and rumors and rumors often drag innocent people/players into their crossfire. This time, its news straight from the team.
JGB wasn't censoring the Original Report. It was to stop a lot of commentators from acting like Ace Williams; throwing out speculation and saying "I've got an in with the team", but not actually giving us real sources
I suggested that it might only be a suspension, but I was in the minority. A lot of people made the leap from "won't play for UM again" (which is the case for any person in his last year of eligibility who misses a bowl game) to "did something that merits getting kicked off the team" (even if they would have had eligibility left) in the absence of any facts. From that point it's a very short leap to wonder if illegal activity is involved. It's a natural mistake to make, but it's still a mistake.
he is clearly not getting shorter/skinnier since he was an elite high school recruit offered by bama and many others but...
the young man is tiny--short, very thin legged.
can you play in big ten as a db at that size? i do not remember antoine winfield in college but he is thick now.
Probably still needs to put on weight. But the Norfleet to CB move might be more about protecting Richardson's redshirt than anything. No need to burn it just for a meaningless bowl game.
i've seen richardson play quite a bit
i think his redshirt is burned for this year
redshirt is done IIRC.
They miss their last game and abdicate their leadership role. Mistakes have consequences, but man it's crappy timing.
Onward for the program.
I saw the thread from last night was locked- should I not post information like that when I hear it? I didn't speculate as to why they were being disciplined, but it was still before the athletic department put out a press release.
Maybe email Brian? The problem is that it's impossible to tell apart true word-of-mouth information from a random message board poster and trolling that can damage the reputation of an innocent person. So it's better to be safe than sorry.
Yeah I had actually emailed Brian earlier in the day. Then, Balas decided to tease the entire fanbase last night with his tweet, and that seemed like a fair time to post what I knew.
but all you did was name names with no details. Presumably you heard more than the names, but even if you didn't, you should say that, instead of acting like you have info but only want to tell the internet some of it.
Edit: How is this trolling? The guy still hasn't said anything about how he "knew" before any official statements. Having been associated with the university in several ways over the years, I'm pretty sure students don't just magically know what's happening unless somebody with an actual connection to the team tells them. He just repeated a rumor that could have easily been wrong. Sometimes The_Knowledge is right, too.
"Presumably you heard more than the names, but even if you didn't, you should say that, instead of acting like you have info but only want to tell the internet some of it."
...I explicitly stated that I only knew the names and that it was disciplinary.
You didn't and still haven't named your sources. So there's no basis to believe you. You don't need to name names, like "Brady Hoke told me at lunch", but a talked with staff, know someone who rooms with x player, work in the department, anything more than "students are saying" elevates it from base rumor to potential new information.
So you did, eventually. You didn't initially, which I complained about, and then you did in a subsequent comment that I didn't see until now because you can't view it through the thread. But ok. I clicked on your name and saw it now, so my bad.
I think it's wrong that the thread got locked as it did. If people were out of line - that's what we have the moderation system for. They get negged and greyed out and nobody sees what they have to say.
But it was pretty obvious there was a lot of smoke and where there is there's usually fire.
Spot on. There is a bad case of MgoEgotism around here - an inflated view of one's importance and influence. Its the internets for crying out loud. Its all about speculation. That's normal. What's not normal is that mods here, perhaps trying to justify or bolster their sense of importance, feel that things said here have some sort of broader influence, and so they must step in, save the day, be heros. Trust me, what is speculated here matters very very little. If at all. I have seen it over and over with different mods, shutting down threads discussing speculative issues that end up being true. Where there is smoke, there is fire about 90% of the time here.
In any case, one of the mods decided to lock down the thread late on a Saturday night, and so what? We found out the truth the next day. Is this really something to get upset about?
We saw the same mentality with the Newtown posts went up on Friday. While OT, it still remains one of the most terrible tragedies of our lifetimes. And it gets shut down instantly because it might divulge into a policy discussion? Why does the moderation feature even exist if that's the case? For a lot of people, discussing a situation like that and how it effects them can even be thearaputic.
Maybe it's just me but I feel like we should trust the members of the board to police themselves in most instances - again that's what the moderation features are for.
If their objection was to the thread itself instead of the ensuing commentary they probably would have deleted the thread instead of just ocking it down. I wouldn't worry about it.
it was collateral damage as much as anything. I don't think it was the post, as much as the baseless speculation that got the thread locked. Look around, if you are still in A2 and not Bolivia, you're good to go.
Look around, if you are still in A2 and not Bolivia, you're good to go.
OMG I'm in Ohio. What did I do???
Well if those unfortunate souls who reside in the Buckeye state are "Hell people in Ohio", and MGoBlog hell is Bolivia, then by the transitive property, Ohio=Bolivia.
Also, if she weighs more than a duck... she's a witch!
Brian is the guy who can verify sources on his site, and I'm not involved with anything like that. Without being able to verify your sources myself (or, frankly, recognizing you or anyone else naming names as someone who has reported a bunch of things correctly before) I felt I had two choices: leave the thread up with a couple different posts like yours and speculation about the cause behind what you and a few others were saying, or locking the thread. Locking it put an end to discussion, but also protected the guys named from speculation getting out of hand until official news broke. Using my judgement about unsourced negative information, I locked the thread.
In the future, I would recommend emailing Brian with any inside information. He has experience with these kinds of things, and he can get it out there with or without your name attached, or give an MGoStamp of approval based on your access/info.
Absolutely, I'll do that.
The issue is that you actually think you are protecting someone. A lowly thread on a Saturday night on one blog speculating about adults who play on a college team with national recognition means very very little. But if you want to feel like you are actually protecting football players who need protecting from nameless commenters on a blog thread, then by all means stop discussion.
Exactly. This thread should be locked as well due to the speculation based on the ambiguity of of "violation of team rules."
The board is for breaking news and discussion on breaking news. If someone has been hearing rumors of players being suspended it should be a place where others can offer the information they have either refuting or supporting the rumors. Killing the discussion by locking every negative thread defeats the purpose of the board. We can take care of flamebait posts by downvoting.
Edit: I get why Justin locked it, but I think we need a more concrete policy on thread locking.
On the one hand I like the idea of protecting people's reputation. It's sort of in line with innocent until proven guilty. A false accusation can make you guilty in public opinion, and that is not fair. But, on the other hand what you just said reminds me these are adults. We have a tendency to repeat on this board that these are just "kids" or "college kids". It's one thing to reference recruits in that way becsause they are 16-18 year olds that live at home with mom and dad. But, once you hit 18 and move out and live away from home and become a college student you are an adult. Granted, there is a transition in learning to be responsible for your actions. But, part of that learning process means dealing with the consequences of your behavior, including negative consequences, which in this case is partly being talked about on MGoBlog. So, thank you for reminding me that 18-22 year-olds and college students in general are adults, not kids.
interesting.... one of A2.com's lead sports stories is about two more South Carolina players being suspended (WR D.L. Moore, and OL Kyle Harris)... no mention of the UM players... yet.
EDIT: Nevermind.... it showed up while I was typing this.
Will he ever be back? I am doubting it. Hoke has too much class.
so they all got busted for doing the same thing at the same time? Whatever Will, Brandin and JT's Excellent Adventure was, I hope it was legal
There's no indication they were all doing the same thing. Hoke (annarbor.com):
"It is an honor to play football for the University of Michigan, and we have high standards and expectations for everyone that represents our program," coach Brady Hoke in a statement. "These young men used poor judgment in each circumstance, and these suspensions are teaching moments for our team."
where is Raymon Taylor going and why would Avery start over him?
...in anouncing the move of Dennis Norfleet to CB. Obviously, Hoke knew that there was going to be a big hole at CB. But rather than wait until the news of Floyd's suspension broke, he announces it early. So that essentially Norfleet gets his own day in relation to the position switch, and that fire burns itself out, and then only later everybody can say, 'Aha!; so that's why he did it!'
If Hoke has waited until Floyd was announced as gone, and then later said, 'And so now we are switching Norfleet to that position,' it taints everybody in a way that he avoided. The other CB's on the depth chart would have looked bad. Norfleet would have looked even more like a panic option.
Don't get me wrong; the facts are the facts and they are all pretty obviously linked. We all can make a pretty clear guess about what is going on. But I still think this was a model of p.r. cleverness.
You were expecting cogent thought?
How about that JT Floyd, guys? Is it finally okay for me to criticize him, after he's been burned all year and now gets suspended before his final college game?
Not only burned, but horrific run support for 3/4th of the season (late recognition, weak on squeezing point-of-attack, spotty tackling). I'm baffled by him manning the spot 95% of the time - backups must be even less capable.
I would reserve the castigation for off-field as this is the only character issue I know about. Feel free to over-ride with more info.
Shouldn't you be praising him now for removing himself from the field?
Jokes aside just about every corner we've had in the past 5 years have been getting burned a decent amount outside of Donovan Warren (ARGH MORGAN TRENT) . I don't really consider JT Floyd worse than the other guys we've put out there and I definitely see him as the best option out there.
Man I bet JT wishes he went to the NFL last year now. /toosoon?
I'm still not over Donovan Warren.
When we don't know what he was suspended for?
He did pretty well last year against some tough receivers and survived this year for whatever reason until Ohio State. He's never going to be an elite athlete and turned into a pretty effective player after three years of being coached by Gibson. What do you want to criticize? That he's not an NFL player? We knew that. We also knew that after trying literally everything else that the 2009 defensive backfield should have always been him opposite Warren as the corners.
There wasn't a moment in his career, including the Outback Bowl this year, that I didn't think Michigan would be better off without J.T. Floyd. Criticise him for whatever; as he won't play for Michigan again I'm comfortable saying on the whole I was glad to have had him.
Is there something that he could have been suspended for that should be defended?
I don't necessarily think there would have been a better option this year. Unfortunately, we're thin at cornerback. But that doesn't mean he's beyond criticism. I took heat regularly for pointing out his weaknesses, his unwillingness to tackle, his lack of speed, etc.
This year it seems like everyone's come around to the idea that, yeah, maybe he's not so good. But based on that one nice interception he made last year against Illinois, I had to sit through several months of people trying to tell me that I was wrong. Well, he still isn't very good, and now he's suspended.
I would never say that I wish he would have gone somewhere else or anything like that, but I am certainly looking forward to the day when Michigan can once against put two guys on the field whose abilities are superior to those of Floyd.
Do you think Raymon and Countess are better? Meaning that if Countess recovers from his injury, both our corners next year will be better than Floyd?
I think Countess is better, and Taylor can be - and maybe is - just as good.
I think Taylor will be better next year than Floyd has ever been. Taylor seems to have the speed/athleticism neccesary and is also physical. Like you pointed out, Floyd is very un physical and not very fast. I remember multiple plays this year when he literally ran away from blocks - I think we will be better next year.
Just out curiosity, how do you feel about the backups? Let's just assume that the 2013 class doesn't bring in any "start immediately" studs (because that's rare).
You've got Hollowell and Richardson, and then Avery and now Norfleet, most notably. If something like this year's events happen, assuming Countess and Taylor are starting, do you feel good about one of those guys stepping up? Obviously it's early to get a feel for how guys are gonna show next year, but I'm just looking to get a feel for the consensus.
We will return 3 corners who have playe a lot off football, a sophomore who was a top 150 recruit, and a guy who has been a good special teams player.
I think optimism is warranted.
How much PT did Richardson get this year, if any?
Special teams, garbage time.
Richardson should be ready for playing time so long as he surpasses 165 pounds by then. Avery will probably remain at NB/3rd CB for the duration of his career.
It's one thing to acknowledge that a player has weaknesses. It's something different to continually bash said player and point out those weaknesses week in and week out. Kid has worked hard here and seems to have made the most out of what he had to offer. He made a bad decision and that will end his career at Michigan on a bad note but no, it's not now ok for you to bash him. He has been punished.
It works both ways. Kids who deserve to be praised week in and week out get praised. Likewise, weaknesses are pointed out, too.
Why bother? You're a dickhead with a soft porn Michigan blog. Call Jim Rome or something.
But based on that one nice interception he made last year against Illinois, I had to sit through several months of people trying to tell me that I was wrong.
Life is rough.
I dunno...I can't really judge college kids as well as their coaches can since I did some dumb-ass shit in college.
stop being a fucking asshole. You're actually happy Floyd fucked up so you can be proven right (as if his suspension justifies your view of his play), which is all you ever care about.
What a shit stain you can be.
Who said I'm happy? I'm annoyed that these three got suspended. All I'm saying is that I criticized him for his poor play and took crap for it, and this year . . . he still hasn't been very good and got suspended.
But I guess you can just sit there and call me names without acknowledging the actual point of my statements.
You took criticism! THIS ISN'T FUCKING ABOUT YOU. It's about JT Floyd - not some grudge some amateur Meril Hoge has been nursing because people disagree with him. Who are you, Skip Bayless?
Nobody gives a fuck how Floyds suspension impacts an argument you had about his play. And you taking a moment to gloat about being "right" (even though this has nothing tomdo with his play), does indicate some happiness, yes.
My point is that his career is finished at Michigan, and he never turned into the guy that many people on here kept telling me that he would be.
It really has nothing to do with his character. I am not happy. I would always rather Michigan players/teams have success than for me to be right, since I'm an alum and fan of Michigan.
If you think I'm happy, that really has no bearing on me. You don't know me and can't judge my emotional state from your computer in Chicago (or at least that's where I assume you are).
I was right!!! Magnus is a dick hole!!! All about me. I am going to go make myself a pie.
You basically say "because he got in trouble am I now right he was a sucky player?"
That there's absolutely no logical connection between the two is a glaring weakness in your reasoning; and the fact you even try to make the connection makes it look like gloating.
I just re-read my post, and it doesn't say what you think it said.
Perhaps you should read it again.
no, it does. Per usual, you're disinegnuous as hell.
It's probably a problem with the author, not the reader.
But lets look at it...
How about that JT Floyd, guys? Is it finally okay for me to criticize him, after he's been burned all year and now gets suspended before his final college game?
First "How about that JT Floyd, guys?", said in a jocular, sarcastic way, making fun of his situation.
"Is it finally ok for me to criticize..." the I told you so part, showing that you're glad to be right as you make fun of the player's bad decisions. Imparting that you're glad he did something stupid, just so you could be right.
"after being burned all year and now getting suspended before his final college game", which shows logical discord. "Now that he also did something stupid, am I right for saying he played badly?" There's no connection. There are guys who never do anything wrong who play badly, and guys who are great players who screw up all the time. If you were wrong before, JT doing this doesn't make him a worse player. And if you were right, had he not gotten in trouble you wouldn't have been any less right. It's HA, he's a screw up, so he must have been a bad player. What?
The only purpose of it is if you're trying to gloat about "being right", because there's absolutely no if A and then B = C in the statement or happenings. So you're either trying to justify your point, or just making a ridculously stupid analysis. I didn't think you were that stupid, so I went for the former.
Then maybe it's a problem with the way I wrote it. Regardless, it's not what some people think it is.
I see the connection. If you don't, you don't. Oh well.
I've expounded on my intention elsewhere in this post, so I won't explain it again here.
Anyway, I'm obviously a huge Michigan fan and do not enjoy when Michigan loses. I would rather be wrong about a player and have him turn into a superstar, instead of being right and having him cost us games/points. I would think that the fact that I post here so much and have a vested interest in Michigan doing well that this stance would be obvious, but I guess I'll just have to post more and make it even more obvious that I'm rooting for the program...
Not one single person claimed you weren't a Michigan fan. Strawman.
And the meaning of the post might be different than it came off to some.
But the one thing I don't get - is what was the meaning and intent of the original post, if not to gloat due to some player's...misfortune? Stupidity? There was a reason to hit reply, type, and send. I just don't see any other one.
Magnus, you're a very valuable and informative poster around here, but I have to agree that you're wrong on this one.
You've previously criticized JT Floyd for not being very good at cornerback. And I think you're more or less right about that. But you can't say "HA! I told you so!" about this, because the reason you were down on Floyd previously had absolutely no relevance to any possible character issues. So go ahead and criticize his play on the field. And once we have a few more details, you might be right to criticize his character (or at least his judgment) as well. But the two don't connect, and it's disingenuous to pretend that this somehow conforms what you've said all along.
That being said, your football analysis is always interesting and worth checking out. Cheers.
My point is:
He's not very good.
Now his career is over.
He never got very good, so is it okay for me to criticize him now that he doesn't play for Michigan anymore?
If that didn't come across in the first post, then so be it. But I'm certainly not happy that he (and the other two guys) got suspended, because that obviously lowers our chances of winning the game.
Anyway, I'm glad you appreciate my football analysis.
You still seem to want to discuss how Floyd's dismissal impacts you. Get over yourself.
People disagreed with you. You take it as a persecution complex. It's hilarious.
Honestly, I have trouble buying that. The way your OP read (before people started calling you out for it) was straight-up gleeful. Now maybe that was just a really inept piece of communication, but to me and everybody else on this thread, it looked, walked, and quacked like a duck. We all have to take our lumps sometimes, even if we're always right about everything and we're just poor, misunderstood souls.
Nobody gives a flying fuck about who you think is good because you don't know anything about it. You know just as much about the players as anyone else who has a computer.
Yes sir. I sat reading Magnus' response thinking the same as you, but telling myself don't reply, don't reply.
We have 3 young men on M suspended and missing the bowl game, two of them, their last college game, and Magnus is concerned with convoluting their misfortune to his questionable opinion of a 3 year starting corner.
He always has been.
Will Hagerup must be a huge Tyrann Mathieu fan.
Isn't this the second time Hagerup has been suspended for some violation of team rules? Didn't he miss the Alabama game or the Sugar bowl or something already?
He got suspended under RichRod.
The Kenny Allen era may be starting earlier than expected.
Ace, from 16 months ago:
Michigan bolstered their special teams depth and added a scholarship-level punter on the cheap yesterday when Fenton (MI) punter Kenny Allen agreed to join the team in 2012 as a preferred walk-on. Allen should provide quality insurance in case Will Hagerup gets the proverbial third strike and could easily be a multi-year starter once (well, I guess if) Hagerup graduates.
If Will does get the boot (ha!), I think we'll see Allen at punter in 2013 and M taking a scholarship guy in the 2014 class.
What about the guy who averaged 41.6 yards per punt last season?
He's the same guy that averaged 31.9 yards per punt this year. We'll need Wile for kickoffs and long field goals, and unless there is a massive chasm between Wile and Allen, I doubt the staff will want to throw him out there at punter too.
You mean when he was asked to pooch kick from the 50 and pin teams inside the 20 he only averaged 32 yards a kick?
Ya screw that guy on to the next....
Punting average wasn't my point-- Magnus brought that up. My point is that unless Wile is markedly better than Allen, M is probably better off diversifying a bit. Maybe the staff is comfortable with Wile doing kickoffs, punting and field goals in 2014, but based on how they've used the guys so far, I doubt it.
If I'm not mistaken Wile was primarily used for short punts this year, inside the 50 and trying to pooch inside the 20 so those numbers might be skewed.
Hill was a safety and being moved to CB. Obviously Hoke thinks we are razor thin there.
Just had a feeling it had something to do with him when I saw the thing about Norfleet yesterday, but in regards to the others, all I have to say is wow.
Hill was a safety and being moved to CB. Obviously Hoke thinks we are razor thin there.
It could also have something to do with Gordon, Wilson, and Thomas.
Everyone on here is applauding the disciplinary actions by the staff. No one is defending the players. If you break the code of conduct or commit a crime, at Michigan, at a minimum you will be suspended at least one game. Which is in this day in age, a lot harsher than many other teams.
Btw, I said no lettuce on my Big Mac.
To whatever glass house you live in...fanny flusher...
Go home troll
One thing that gets to me about this, particularly about Floyd and Hagerup, is that in the case of Floyd, he was recently interviewed and talked about how he was honored to play for Michigan, and Hagerup talked in another interview about how he had learned from his previous suspensions and turned that energy into good results this year. Apparently not, in the case of Hagerup. Very, very surprised about Floyd though, particularly since he seemed to take on something of a leadership role as a senior, which makes this all the more disappointing.
Those losses in particular will sting, but as others have said, I like that the coaches mean what they say about "integrity" in no uncertain terms.
I appreciate the coaches disciplining players when they break rules. It's something many coaches around the country could benefit from...props to hoke and company. You don't follow the rules, you don't play. Hopefully these young men learn from their mistakes. As for hagerup, get your act together!!!!
Drugs are bad mmmkayyyy
gotta be disappointed in JT Floyd.. his last game.. against his homestate and all that. you gotta be smarter then that... NFL teams are right around the corner.. gonna have to explain yourself if you wanna make the league
If he's gonna smoke the weed, he might as well go all in and grow the dreads back.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but if it is something like weed (just a guess based on the usual speculation), these guys would definitely be like a number of their peers who get busted. Not excusing their behavior, but just because these guys look older and more mature than their peers doesn't change the fact that college kids do dumb things at times. Just like everyone else.
What's your screen name again?
Denard to corner! He can't throw as well as he'd "like to"; he should be able to read theopposing QB and he's fast as hell. I predict two interceptions, with one return for a touchdown and game MVP.
He's managed to get himself suspended for an Ohio State game, a Notre Dame game, and now a bowl game. He's a dedicated young man who knows how to pick his spots, and his future looks very bright.
Does he only use the wacky weed before big games or is he only suspended before big games? It seems like every program and television says that drug addiction is hard to not notice, so it seems strange that the drug abuse issue only comes about before important match ups. I'd have to imagine there was a pattern of behavior: lying, a disheveled appearance, asking for money, long absences... that would've hopefully been noticed by someone to get these young men some help.
Refer Madness isn't an accurate depiction of marijuana use...
everywhere and you two are talking like it's 1947.
EDIT: Not defending player misconduct/rule-breaking, btw. Just the tenor of the above conversation.
More likely he just happened to get caught in the act - if you're going to do it at least be somewhat smart about where and when.
We could really use Yuri Wright.....
This is a bummer. And I read an article a few days ago about JT coming full circle against South Carolina. So much for them being Floyd's first offer and last collegiate game.
Sad to see it happen, but you have rules for a reason. And two of the three are starters, so it isn't a case of favortism or only punishing kids who won't play much.
Multiple good sources are saying that there is a very good chance that Hagerup is off the team for good. Nothing definite, as Hoke may give him a way to return, but figured I would let you know since this isn't pure speculation.
And we are supposed to trust the people you call "good sources" for what reason? I also predict that Hagerup is done, but can't we play The_Knowledge without pretending to have inside information?
Well may help explain the Norfleet move. Best of luck to JT and Brandin in future endeavors.
Floyd has a kid. You'd hope for more maturity than whatever he did here.
Not to get all cliche, but any guy can have a kid; it takes a man to be a father. I don't know what happened here, but you kind of hoped that a senior playing his last game would have used a bit more common sense in this context.
so it is true
That was the whole point of his post.
Hawthorne does as well
Well, at least Hagerup provided some funny GIF material during his time in Ann Arbor. Talk about a squandered opportunity.
Mannnnn. It's just some weed. Like I was saying with Honey Badger if you can toke til you choke and perform at a high level, more power to you.
Indeed, but its still against the rules, and the law (In most States).
punting was one of the few strengths of the team in Boulder and he was only a redshirt sophomore. CSU is graduating their 3-time first-team-MWC punter, though.
I don't think the Air Force Academy is a possibility here.
Look how toking worked out for us against App State
You clearly forgot to add a "/s" ...
goto stay away from the grass!
It kills me that now Floyd is going to have to deal with this shit throughout his whole NFL deal. I wish Hoke would have made him and Hawthrone have some ridiculous punishment (stadium stairs, study table, volunteer work) before the bowl game so that they could still come to the game and maybe not start but play.
Maybe Floyd should have thought about the consequences before he did the thing that got himself suspended.
I wouldn't say there is no likelihood of concussions. Punters are vulnerable when they're kicking (and if the kick is blocked, the punter is fair game to be hit) and can be violently blocked on long punt returns.
Do they do urine drug tests or take hair samples?
IF Floyd got suspended for smoking weed AND they use hair samples, could this explain why he chopped his dreads off earlier this season?
Hmmmmmmm... I think I'm on to something.
This also explain why the entire Oregon football team transfered to Colorado!
Three years in the program, suspended three times. Why wait to make it 4 for 4. Obviously the young man doesn't feel it is an honor to wear the winged helmet. Why waste a scholarship on a player you can't depend on to follow the rules. We have Wile to punt and we can use this scholarship to add another 4 or 5 star player to our already great class. It's time to punt Wil from the team.
Shame on you, shame on me. Sorry dude it's over at UM for him, I hate to bet. Yes I feel bad for Floyd I am sure he wanted to play in this up-coming game against the other SC team. This like any news of this nature is poorly timed though, and I do trust the coaches in whatever their determination of just retribution for the kids.
Third failed test for each after being told it was coming before the end of the month. Smh. Also not suspended they gone.
If this is all because of a single positive test result for marijuana, the whole thing is incredibly frustrating. The players are dumb for having broken a rule, and the rule is stupid because weed is pretty much harmless. Unless Hoke has some indication that the players actually have a serious drug abuse issue, this is a terrible reason for Floyd and Hawthorne to have to miss their last game.
Not first but third for each. worst part is they knew it was coming
Where are you getting this "third strike" thing from?
friends with a player. he says the guys are pissed
The guys as in the 3 who failed the test or the whole rest of the team?
The guys as in the rest of the team. And turd, i understand your skepticism but im telling the truth i promise
They know the team rules, they KNOWINGLY violated the team rules, and now they are paying the price. Who cares what people's personal feelings on weed are? If smoking it is expressly against team rules, then if you do it, you are an idiot. Especially if you KNOW you are going to be tested.
It's a school policy.
Brandon increased the frequency of his program's testing, and stiffened the penalties for a positive test, according to the report. Michigan athletes now are suspended for 10 percent of their team's competitions for a first positive drug test and 33 percent of competitions after a second. They receive a one-year suspension from all activities for a third positive result.
Hagerup is iffy to me, 3rd strike... It shows not a mistake, but a lack of remorse and no willingness to accept responsibility. I don't want to sound harsh, but I mean.. Really?
This opens up more scholarships to give to a field goal place holder, since we already have the long snapper covered.
Is he out of prison yet? He probably has some eligibility left for at least one more game!
I'm getting pretty damn sick of the number of player misconduct issues this team is having.
I don't really feel we have that many issues and I feel our coaches deal flexibly and appropriately to those issues that do arise.
Meh, we only know the situations that become public which I'd have to imagine is only a fraction of the misconduct that goes on behind the scenes. I'd say having the amount of players suspended/having run-ins with the law in the past few years is a bit unsettling.
If a player gets arrested, the football program isn't going to be able to keep it quiet even if it wants to. It doesn't have that kind of power.
Wondering if this has something to do with it. WH in court today. Traffic DEV? What does that mean? Just a red light ticket?