Conference Expansion: SEC EXPOSED.

Submitted by M-Dog on

Who is the big loser during the Conference Expansion process?  The SEC is. 

No, it's not because of what schools they pick up or don't pick up. 

It's because of the merciless coast-to-coast holy-ass beating the SEC's academic reputation is taking during the Expansion process.

Article after article, post after post inevitably points out that the SEC is not even under consideration for big fish like Texas because of its deplorable academics.

I get that the SEC Coaches and Athletic Directors don't seem to care, but man if I'm an SEC university president, I gotta be cringing every time I open a newspaper or click on a link.

Meanwhile, the Big 10 is constantly referenced as the top of the academic food chain for major conferences.  So much so that schools are weeded out based on academics before any conversations even start . . . the now famous "Tech problem".

No wonder the SEC hates the Big 10.

So next time an SEC slappy tells you that the Big 10 can't keep up with their speed, remind them that when it really counted, the SEC couldn't keep up with the Big 10's smarts.

The verdict is in: The Big 10 may be slow, but the SEC is STUPID.

clarkiefromcanada

June 13th, 2010 at 10:20 PM ^

if I'm an SEC university president, I gotta be cringing every time I open a newspaper or click on a link...

a) You're assuming they can use them internets.

b) Do the qualifications to be an SEC president rate the same as their academics in comparison to the Big Ten? 

c) If so, I am sure that being president is a big upgrade from their potential as adjunct faculty at UM.

ckersh74

June 13th, 2010 at 10:21 PM ^

I think that at one point in the last decade, Vanderbilt was the only SEC school NOT to have a prgoram on probation at that given moment.

Njia

June 13th, 2010 at 11:32 PM ^

Behind my family and I was an alumna from the University of Georgia, (I know this, because she was talking to her companions about her academic pursuits there). Not once, in the 45 minutes I stood in line, did I hear her put together grammatically correct sentence. Not. Once.

As we got on the ride, (and out of ear shot) I turned to my wife and said, "Our children will never attend the University of Georgia."

michman79

June 13th, 2010 at 10:45 PM ^

I am glad that our conference is superior academically but I can't help but think how much more superior we would be without those couch-burning degenerates in East Lansing.

ats

June 13th, 2010 at 11:05 PM ^

As much as we like to sling the old mud at MSU, they actually have a pretty good set of grad programs.  They would be ranked somewhere in the middle of the PAC10 and in the top of both the B12 and SEC.  They have one of the best Education schools in the country, TWO decent med schools (one of the best DO schools in the nation)  both ranked in the top 25 for primary care.

Biz: 47

Education: 17

Engineering: 51

Veterinary: 9

And as should be no surprise, they have the 7th ranked Criminology program in the nation!

So, MSU is a very good school, that if anything looks worse in light of the comparisons to UM, etc within the B10.  If they are the worst school in the B10, then the B10 looks pretty damn good.

WolvinLA2

June 13th, 2010 at 11:38 PM ^

Come on, MSU is certainly not a great school, not an elite school, but they are not a definitely terrible school.  They are a top 30 public school nationally.  This means that about half the states in the country don't have a state school as good as MSU (since states like CA have a few) and very few have more than one. 

I'm no MSU fan, and I'm not saying you need to be a brain surgeon to get accepted there, but saying it's "definitely a terrible school" is way overboard.

big gay heart

June 13th, 2010 at 10:48 PM ^

I've always felt the Pac 10 was, overall, academically superior to the Big 10. The Big 10 has an advantage with the CIC, but the Pac 10 has more top tier schools than  the Big 10.

briangoblue

June 13th, 2010 at 11:10 PM ^

Northwestern can match Stanford and UofM matches Cal-Berkeley. After that, it's all about what fields you're talking about. Wisconsin and Indiana are underrated academically because they're not in glamorous locations like UCLA. Also, don't forget Ohio State is one of the top schools in the country for aspiring truck drivers and meth chemists. 

big gay heart

June 13th, 2010 at 11:01 PM ^

Yes, I mean ASU is probably a comparator to MSU with WSU and Or.SU bing significantly worse than any Big 10 school.

Still, Stanford, UCLA, UCB, UW and Oregon (in some respects) are all wonderful research institutions which would seem to outweigh any inadequecies present due to lesser schools.

ats

June 13th, 2010 at 11:15 PM ^

MSU is well above ASU.  As I have stated previously, MSU would be in about the middle of the Pac10.  The top 5 of the Pac10 are good, but once you get to WSU, Oregon, Oregon St, Arizona, and Arizona State, it has gone pretty far downhill.  UW and the Cali schools are basically where all the academic capabilities lie within the Pac10.

WolvinLA2

June 13th, 2010 at 11:22 PM ^

Eh, the Pac Ten is only ahead at the very top.  Stanford is above NW, Berkeley ahead of UM (but barely), UCLA ahead of Wisconsin, and USC ahead Illinois.  PSU and UW are about a wash (no pun intended), and then every other Big Ten school is above U of Arizona, their next highest ranked school (all according to US News).  Iowa, MSU and Indiana are all tied as the 29th best public U in the country, and Arizona comes in at #48.  WSU #52, Oregon #57, ASU #60 and Oregon State didn't even make the list of 68 public universities, even though Missouri University of Science and Technology is #64.

Thus, at the top the Pac Ten edges us out, but at the bottom they don't even touch us.  The bottom of the Pac Ten is on pace with the bottom of the SEC, maybe worse.

WolvinLA2

June 14th, 2010 at 12:23 AM ^

To be fair, those numbers I was using were rankings of public universities only (since most of the schools we're discussing are public), and Oklahoma is #48, tied with Arizona.  That said, OK St. and TTU are still unranked, and Baylor is still below every Big Ten school, so you're point remains that it brings them down.  Even Colorado who they just added is #34, behind every Big Ten school except recently added Nebraska (#43). 

So if you point is "the Big Ten was ahead of the Pac Ten before expansion, and looks to be ahead by even more after expansion" then I agree with you.  And if we add Texas and/or ND, we go ahead by even more.

jb5O4

June 13th, 2010 at 11:37 PM ^

I think there's a few things hurting SEC schools in academics, one being there arent't enough smart people in their states to fill a student body. I've taken a few classes at LSU and it amazes me how little students there care about their education. The south has an attitude problem about education, which is sad because there are alot of smart people down here but they get put down by the overwhelming amount of stupid people. People down here always have something insulting to say about someone who pursues a great education. I always see LSU fans with these stupid "Winning is an attitude shirts". Well getting a great education is all about attitude as well.

hailtothevictors08

June 14th, 2010 at 2:27 AM ^

i know a man who works in the chemical industry for a nation-wide company, has reached the point where he has plays a role in reading the job applications, and talked with him about the process ...

they will basically at least look at almost any big ten application

however if your a southeast school not in the acc top half (gtech, duke, uva, unc, vatech etc) and you don't go to vandy or absolutly kicked ass at florida, it is a non starter

joeyb

June 14th, 2010 at 10:19 AM ^

Ira did this story on WTKA this morning. So, my three possibilities were you are Ira, Ira saw your story and went with it, or you both saw the same story and went with it.

NJWolverine

June 14th, 2010 at 2:19 PM ^

While we would all like to see the SEC as losers in expansion, I simply cannot see it happening.  There are many contingencies the SEC has that will almost assuredly mean they will at least be in the same postiion post-expansion that they were pre-expansion, if not better.  Even if they capture neither Texas A&M or Oklahoma, they still have Georgia Tech, Florida St., Miami and Virginia Tech.  Georgia Tech would completely shore up the largest market down there, Atlanta.  The other three are mired in a decaying (and increasingly irrelevant) ACC and would love to be part of a great football conference as they are football-centric schools.  Football is a religion down there and I have no doubt that an SEC network would be a huge success.  With these options, it's hard to see the SEC losing from the recent changes.

jmblue

June 14th, 2010 at 2:41 PM ^

Can we really say they're being exposed when everyone in the world already knew those schools (Vandy aside) sucked academically?

Seth

June 14th, 2010 at 6:30 PM ^

I was visiting Atlanta over Memorial Day weekend and got into a conversation that I thought had turned intellectual. Now, being the Big Ten midwesterner, I took a devil's advocate position and kept the debate going, until I suddenly realized the Georgia grad was taking it very seriously.

What I was told was that debating is not polite, at all, in the South. Playing Devil's Advocate might as well be playing the devil.

This was not a stupid person. But the Dawg was very earnest in calling me out, and would not be consoled afterwards, ending the evening with snides about northerners and selfishness and such -- kind of killed the night.

The problem, as I discovered, is not in identifying that there's an intellectual difference between the North and South, but in thinking it's about intelligence. Rather, they're coming at it from a perspective of politeness, which is more important in the South, culturally, than discovery or "getting it right." There is no such thing as "constructive criticism," or "just for the sake of argument." If you disagree on something with somebody in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room.

I'm in no position to say what's better. I personally wouldn't choose accord over intellectualism as a cultural value, but then again, I'm much better at arguing about stuff than I am at getting along with people -- that's my bias. I do know that to succeed in the world, it's better if you actually have both.

SpartanDan

June 15th, 2010 at 10:30 PM ^

When you value agreement over correctness, it's very easy to drive the whole damn bus right off a cliff because everyone's too polite to tell you you're going the wrong way.

Perhaps that's just my Northern background speaking. But it seems painfully obvious, and the idea that it isn't explains everything that is wrong with the South.