Your Penn State thoughts for today go here. ALL of them.
Comprehensive Thursday Penn State Thread
At some point, I am actually going to vomit.
That is atrocious. The Feds are going to come down hard on everyone who was involved at any level. The whole thing is sickening. One of the worst stories I've ever heard.
I think it's a safe bet that Sandusky takes his own life before he stands trial.
He should be in custody and on suicide watch.
Those victims NEED their justice. He should not be able to run away from his fate, especially since those he harmed couldn't run away from him.
If true, that's a ready-made racketeering case right there...
Matt Millen was right. The more we peel back the onion, the uglier its going to get. Millen was on the board for Second Mile. Now HE is somewhat involved/responsible for what happened with SM. Shit is getting worst by the second.
Oh, he's more correct than he even knows. Its just the beginning. The lawsuits that will be filed, for one, are going to last years. PSU as an institution is going to have to rebuild for years to get its reputation back. New applications are going to drop, annual giving is going to drop, etc., etc. All from numerous people's failures to take the extra step. Its mind-boggling. It really is.
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JoePa? is that you?
It's interesting that even though this occured in the off-season, I don't recall ever hearing about it.
...and didn't get much of a response beyond some shoulder-shrugging and a couple of unfunny jokes.
That's actually a pretty interesting read.
Yeah. Steve in PA looks like he was completely fooled by everyone in Happy Valley.
Never any stories about Sandusky being pursued for a high-profile job. Never any rumors about him coming out of retirement.
We already have articles that you can link to about VIRGINIA PURSUING SANDUSKY BEFORE HIRING GROH. They ended up backing down because of his involvement and commitment with the Second Mile. They felt that he was spending too much time with it to be a solid D1 coach. In fact, he had a huge staff assembled and ready to go, including Jim Caldwell and Al Golden. You can read the link here - http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=hQNWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=B0ENAAAAIBAJ&pg=6283,1195295&dq=joe+paterno+second+mile&hl=en
I hope the rumors aren't true, but the speculation like this HAS to stop. At this point, we can tell the story has completely derailed from the plight of the victims to pitchforking and burning men like Joe Paterno because well, we can. It's sick.
on what kind of man Joe Paterno is.
Then I'll hit you with two or three basic facts that refute anything you have.
It'll be fun.
They've interviewed him and they're so close to hiring him that the staff is already in place...and all of a sudden they back away because they've decided he isn't committed to coaching? If that's the reason for the decision why did they let things get that far? Wouldn't they have realized that during the interview or the ensuing debriefing? And if he's gone so far as to assemble a staff, doesn't that imply some commitment to returning to the job? Seems odd to me.
Or maybe they'd made up their minds but still needed to do their perfunctory due diligence, talked to folks in State College, got the official "he left the program so he could spend more time with Second Mile" and through some off-the-record backchannel contacts heard there were some skeletons in the closet that might make them want to rethink the hire.
What are they going to say, when they're asked about it? What's Sandusky going to say? They're going to say exactly what Penn St. said when he retired.
The total lack of involvement in college football after his "retirement" make it seem like the allegations back in the day were a poorly kept secret in the sport....
I really pray that rumor isn't true. This case is already horrible enough.
Blue, when you're done throwing up, if you don't mind handing me the same bucket....
I nearly shreaked reading that. Somehow that hits me a lot harder than the original allegations if true.
Kill PSU with fire.
One thing I wanted to comment on from one of the other threads is how the hell is McQueary getting a pass? He had arguably the biggest responsibility to report to the police as a person who actually witnessed the crime first hand. I don't understand why he wasn't the first person fired.
It isn't arguable. McQueary HAD the biggest responsibility here. Other than obviously Sandusky, McQueary was the only one who saw the acts. He needed to get that kid out of there and take him to the police or hospital. Truly sickening.
the best punishment for this coward. He will quit in weeks.
Unfathomable that McQueary is still on the staff. If anything, he should have gone before JoePa. If I ever see him in a game or on the street, he will be heckled. Just like OJ. If I ever saw that jerk, I'd say something.
The last thing the university needs is another person with a meritorious claim against them. McQueary could say that he told the right people, tried to blow the whistle and that he was retaliated against as a result of his grand jury testimony which contradicted that of Paterno, Curley and the guy whose last name begins with an "S" and currently escapes me.
What claim exactly? He is a school employee. Absent contracts otherwise, employers typically reserve the unrestricted right to fire their employees with or without cause, and they could still can his sorry, wormy ass, and pay him for a while to further ease any claim.
Yeah but if that immunity came from the people who took that whistleblower info and swept it under the rug, is it really valid? The whole thing is just crazy, I'm surprised they don't just clean house and start over.... hard to believe anyone that was involved is clean.
The immunity doesn't come from Penn State officials, the immunity comes from the relevant whistleblower statute.
Except that he wouldn't be fired for blowing the whistle, he'd be fired for NOT blowing the whistle - I believe that would be A-OK. Whistleblower laws only protect people who are retaliated against for reporting their employer, right?
Most whistleblower laws say that you can't retaliate against someone for reporting unlawful or other bad acts. But McQueary wouldn't be fired for reporting an unlawful act. He'd be fired for his 2002 actions (Morrisette-ironically, for NOT reporting an unlawful act).
But, according to the Grand Jury report, McQueary DID report the act in accordance with law. The failure was by Penn State executives who did not take it any further.
I think McQueary probably has a very heavy heart over what's happened, but I don't think legally that he did anything in 2002 other than exactly what he should have done.
So did JoePa, the question isn't of legal responsiblity but moral, and McQueary seems to have failed in that every bit as much as Paterno.
Perhaps because the firings weren't so much for the initial failure to report as for the ensuing cover up? (And in the case of Spanier his ham-handed public statements when the story broke.)
Perhaps because there's more to this story than what we know, and unlike the others McQueary isn't part of that more?
Perhaps McQueary's fully cooperating with the current investigation and the others have not?
All just speculation, but I'm not going to assume the Trustees are idiots until we know more.
I agree we don't know the whole story, but to me seeing what happened and knowing Sandusky wasn't in jail is tantamount to a cover-up. He might be cooperating, but not until a case was opened by someone else's actions.
was discussing the possiblility that McCreary DID report this to the police and had been feeding them information.
This would explain why he gets to keep his job.....FOR LIFE.
How is McQueary getting a pass? What does that mean?
He didn't call the police, that is true, but I'm sure he assumed the higher ups would do so.
Hindsight is 20/20 but I'm sure at the time he was more than happy to let those above him handle what happened. Those same higher ups informed him that things were happening.
No, he didn't do his upmost, but he didn't break any laws. If the only thing he did to be condemed about was not calling the police, I don't think he should be condemn. Hell, maybe he did call the police, we might not know the whole story. It's sad that he didn't follow up and hindsight is a beotch, but in terms of McQueary I don't think it would be right to punish him.
because he is a coach at a major college football program who saw that almost nothing was done after he reported a child rape and decided that it would be better to leave it at that...while Sandusky was bringing young boys to practices he was coaching at.
would be done about it.. Now if he knew anything else and was looking the other way, I'd agree with you, he was culpable and should be punished by law. If he blindly -and with poor judgement- assumed that things were going to happen or were already happening, I don't think you punish a man for that. If he didn't break any laws, and only exercised poor judgement in trusting in 'the system', I wouldn't punish him.
I'll be honest, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt with the few facts about him that I know, but this is a messed up situation for sure...
I'm sorry, but it's not like he saw something minor, and just assumed that after he ran it up the chain of command it was taken care of. He saw a kid get raped by a man that continued to show up to the football facility with other kids, for years..... I think you deserve to lose your job for not doing anything about that.
Break away from the rigidity of the chain of command for a minute and think:
He saw a child being raped.
He saw Sandusky walking around practices he coached at with other children.
Given that child rape is always an offense that should send someone to prison, clearly not enough had been done.
He was there FIRST HAND.
He, more than anyone, has no excuse not to follow up.
Stop trying to rationalize this.
He has no business being out on that sideline, it's the least PSU can do.
As I read the Grand Jury report, it is obvious that Curley and Schultz are trying to make McQueary the fall guy by claiming he did not tell them anything specific.
The Grand Jury concluded McQueary was telling the truth and the others are lying (see page 12 of the report) and that is why they are charged with perjury.
If McQueary tells the Grand Jury that he only may have seen some fondling and this is what he told his superiors, all this never gets exposed. Sandusky gets arrested but PSU gets away with the cover up.
Because McQueary tells the truth, the cover up is exposed. BTW, McQueary has no reason to think that Curley and others will lie to the Grand Jury.
Curley is more than happy to throw McQueary under the bus to save himself.
Why didn't McQueary stop the abuse when he saw it happening? Why didn't he yell out "what are you doing?" or "stop that!"
I cannot imagine witnessing something like this and NOT stopping it. The alleged victim was 10 years old. How can someone not intervene? I just don't get it.
I suspect he freaked out when he saw that it was Sandusky, who he had presumably admired and respected for a long time. That doesn't excuse his actions, but I think a lot of people would react differently to seeing a trusted friend and authority figure committing a violent crime than to seeing a stranger commit the same crime.
The prosecution needs McQueary and so Penn State is playing nice. Without McQueary, you don't have the sodomy testimony (2002) and you have the testimony of seven shattered kids and a high school coach who saw a Sandusky laying on his side with another kid. He is the star witness, and is being treated with kid gloves. Now does it make sense?
Many have probably seen this, but check out the 1000+ comments in this thread on the Black Shoe Diaries website. Some of them absolutely blow my mind, the lack of perspective displayed:
It's insane what's being thrown around on that board. There's support, There's mind bogglingly blind support, and then there's the support JoePa is getting from these people. To say that this is being done without any facts is ridiculous. There was a 23 page Grand Jury report compiled over a significant amount of time. Pat Forde also made a great comment stating that you can't be all up in arms that JoePa was fired with all the respect and class of someone in middle management while on the other hand saying his only responsibility was to escalate the matter up the chain of command.
I just hope this board / community / alumni base would have handled this with more of an eye on what's really important and who the victims in the case are.
The whole Pat Forde coverage of this situation has been mind-boggling in general. He's generally shown himself to be a total asshat, but his writing on this story has actually been quite good, dare I say insightful.
When McQueary saw Sandusky abusing a child, he had a split second to make a decision. This was his boss and he was a graduate assistant. He obviously made the wrong decision but it was a split second decision.
Within hours he realized his mistake and went to JoPa. Then, JoPa and others made a calculated, conscious decision over days of deliberations to cover it all up -- knowing full well about Sandusky's previous incidents.
McQueary made a split second decision that was wrong and tried to correct it.
JoPa and others made a calculated decision that was also horribly wrong and then continued to make many othere decisions that were horribly wrong over years and years.
McQueary was a young adult in his 20's conflicted by what his boss had done.
JoPa and the others were mature adults in their 50's - 70's.
I absolutely disagree. I don't know what the details of the conversation between McQueary and JoePa were, but it's possible, as JoePa says, that the horrible nature of what McQueary saw got diluted as it went up the chain of command. As the first hand witness, how could he stand by and watch as his superiors covered it up? I just don't get how JoePa is fired for a moral lapse but McQueary gets a pass for being AT THE SCENE OF THE CRIME and not doing anything, either during the incident or subsequently.
The time line indicates that JoPa already knew about Sandusky being accused in 1998. McQueary probably did not know.
And, I would not be surprised at all if JoPa, and others, told McQueary to keep his mouth shut -- or else.
The board of trustees could have easily removed McQueary. They did not.
This is not true. McQueary was not upfront and truthful when telling JoePa what he saw. He said that Sandusky was showring with a boy and something sexual may have been going on. Horseplay is what it has been quoted. He never told Joe that Sandusky was sodimising a 10 year old boy. He also did nothing to help this boy or stop it, regardless of the power Sandusky held or his job status. He cannot be fired for reporting a crime, and being 28, he wasn't some dumb kid. He was a man and had an obligation to help this child and he flat out dropped the ball.
McQueary says he was upfront and explicit; Paterno says he was not. How do we know whose memory to trust here? Why are you taking Paterno's version as truth?
There's no way you can convince me that McQueary is going to go into Joe Paterno's office and NOT tell the complete story of what he saw. You're talking about a young assistant seeing a 30 year friend of the famous head coach commiting a terrible crime involving a child and he's going to go in there and say, "Hey, Coach - just thought you'd want to know I saw your former DC and friend in the shower with a boy kind of fooling around". First of all, it would have taken him a lot of nerve to go in there and tell what he saw. There's no half way to do that. Second, I can't believe even if McQueary did not tell all the details that Paterno wouldn't have asked for more information.
Either way, someone is lying here. I just don't believe it's McQueary.
They can't both be telling the truth, but that doesn't necessarily mean one of them is lying. I think the chances are pretty good that they both are telling it the way they remember it. It happened a decade ago, it had to be an incredibly stressful conversation for both of them, and I wouldn't expect either of them to accurately remember exactly what was said.
Many people seem to be forgetting that JoPa and the administration decided to cover this up, sweep it under the carpet!
And you believe those folks version of what happened? Why?
I do? Look three posts up the thread.
I don't believe anyone. Anyone that thinks they know what happened is deluding themselves. None of us do.
You do not know that. You're speaking as if you're an insider, but none of us know the real details. None of us.
It was JoPa that said "the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lash Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a youn boy". It does not say that this is what JoPa was told by McQueary. It says this is what JoPa told Curly
The report goes on to say, "Approximately one and one-half weeks later ... the graduate assistant reported to Curley and Schultz that he had witnessed what he believed to be Sandusky having anal sex with a boy in the Lasch Building showers."
Why would McQueary have told JoPa of just fondling and then later told Curley it was anal sex?
Isn't it more likely that JoPa downplayed the incident to protect his friend Sandusky?
I just heard on ESPN that McQueary has said he told JoPa the specifics.
implications of a 60 year old man sodomizing a 10 year old boy.
Apparently there is some discrepancies in what JoePa and the administrators were told by Mcqueary, but only he knows what he actually saw.
Bullshit! "a young adult in his 20's", you mean a 28 year old man, a former player and a coach entrusted with the safety of players at PSU.
Ok, I will give you that maybe he was temorarily incapable of reacting (by stepping outside to puke), but then he saw Sandusky for YEARS after this....and did nothing? Oh wait, he was promoted to a paid coaching position and now runs the program on the field during game days.
There is no excuse, we prosecute 12 year olds for Murder as adults because they "knew right from wrong" but a 28 year old coach did not, so he gets a pass?
So, basically no-one in thier 20's should held accountable for anything, because they are young and conflicted?
and report it to the police, he didn't. He went to Joe Pa, and probably was told not talking to anyone else. I don't think that he is as responsible as others in the cover-up but he has no excuse and could've done more. At least, he could try to distant himself from the program and find a job somewhere else. he had 9 years to do so. He didn't. Now this is under the light and his life is going to be ruined for his bad decision at the time. He will be recklessly heckled on the road and i don't think that he will last before the season is over. I sort of feel sorry for the guy, but he deserves it 100%.
Question: what is preventing random people from "coming out" and saying they were abused by Sandusky, too? I mean, with the level of detail described in the Grand Jury report, I feel like someone could make up an account that followed the pattern similar to the other cases, just to try to pile up the number of accusations against Sandusky. And who's going to question that, you know?
I've wondered that ever since I heard that the number of victims who have stepped forward has doubled over the past couple of weeks. Now, I'm not trying to say that anybody has made anything up, but what measures can be taken, from a legal standpoint, to verify the truthfulness of the accounts?
I'd think there are some hard records of kids in the program. And for example the kid that traveled to bowl games and whatnot, there should be some hard proof that he actually did travel with Sandusky. Not to say that is proves he was abused, but at least it establishes credibility to the stories.
There has been at least one more unknown victim that has come forward this week. But it all flows through the prosecutors office and the ADA's will do what they always do when they get information. They'll research and follow the sources to get to the hard facts the best they are able.
I can't imagine the damage done by being molested. All data shows that only about 10-15% of people actually molested ever come out. They are afraid it will reflect poorly on them!
The probability that someone who was not abused would try to fabricate a story (presumably to get money in a settlement) is .000000000000001%.
only psycho's would make such things up.
there was an interview with a guy on CNN earlier today who claimed to be a victim and he seemd highly suspicious. He said that he would go to sports events with Sandusky, that sandusky would touch his leg, they would go to Sandusky's family picknics, but that nothing else really happened. It sounded exactly like something from the indictment.
There are going to be some people who try and take advantage of this situation.
of one of these victims. But, I can imagine that a lot of them either can't face the public embarassment and shame of having something like this happen to them, or simply have tried hard to put the experience behind them and don't want to be forced to relive the details through a court trial. This is one aspect that makes this crime so horrible. The victims spend most of their lives suffering in silence from the psychological damage.
I am not even going to go there. It is too horrific just to think about...
But I have another question.
One of the shocking things about all this was that PSU had a great reputation on how clean the program was.
But based on all that we have found out over the last 5 days, how really clean are they? It is PATENTLY CLEAR that there is a culture of coverup in PSU. If they did not give 2nd thought about covering up for a pedophile, why would they even bat an eye about covering up any NCAA violations? If there was some payola going on or some extra benefits handed out, I would think they would have covered it up easily.
I mean, even the sordid affair with Sanduski would have been covered up forever, if Sanduski did not get outed by that high school. How do we know there aren't countless NCAA violations that were covered up by PSU to maintain their sterling reputation?
Somewhere there is a Michigan, OSU and PSU fan that interact regularly (work together, neighbors...). The allegations against M come out first, the OSU and PSU fans wag their fingers and say "not us". Then the OSU scandal drops, the PSU fan points at both and says "you're worse then him, but we're much better than both of you." Finally the disgusting PSU mess unfolds.
The point is, very few of us really know what goes on inside of these programs and relying on a public perception can be incredibly misguided. Be careful where you put blind faith and be ever diligent in guarding against those who would put victories on the field above strong moral and ethical behaviour.
I was wondering whether students are attending classes, professors delivering routine lectures, plans to attend the game Saturday, etc. . .
Please Note: My question is not intended to detract from the seriousness of the criminal acts that appear to have occured at PSU. I have been following theses threads closely and it is clear that MGOBLOG nerves are raw and people are taking offense where no offense is intended.
Posted in the other thread, but the Onion is on point here. Sometimes satire is the best way to get a message across:
What is sad is the article also represents the attitude of so called "fans" outraged with Paterno firing...
I was just watching some of the rioters on sportscenter; absolutely clueless. Absolutely classless. I just can't believe that some people can't see anything but the implications to the damned football team right now.
I'm not 40, but I'm a man. Still, I stood over the crib and cried after I put my son in bed last night. Those poor, poor kids...
Well said Mgobleu...I am over 40 and agree totally.
who was talking about "poaching" PSU's recruits reads this and realizes just how tasteless and wrong they were for ever bringing up the subject.
Yep, I thought Ace's comment at the beginning of his post today was spot on.
I was wondering if the NCAA would grant the players some kind of waiver to transfer to another school without sitting out a year. I for one would not want to take a shower in those stalls again after hearing all that went on in there. I also as a parent wouldn't want my child at Penn St any longer as they've shown that the victims weren't nearly as important to them as trying to uphold the institutions reputation. I think this is an unprecedented situation and I am curious as to how this will play out. Any thoughts, although I don't know that I trust the NCAA to make a smart decision in this case. Please understand I'm not trying to say I hope we get recruits out of this, I'm just saying I'd want to get as far away from there as I could as fast as possible.
what I was thinking. How could you even look at those showers. It sounds like a situation where you're buying a house where someone was murdered or commited suicide. Creepy.
However, it seems like the abuse happened in the coaches locker rooms, not the players.
Seriously, if you are a parent of a football recruit, how could you send your kid to that school??? McQueary is the recruiting coordinator fergodsakes!
You know for a FACT that PSU will always protect the institution over any welfare of a kid/student. If your child got into trouble at PSU, you don't know that they will take care of your kid (unless doing so lined up with PSU's interest).
How could you send your kid to an environment like that?
You know for a FACT that is what they did in this case. You don't know for a FACT that they will ALWAYS protect the institution over the kid/student going forward. There may be more to come, but those in the highest leadership positions that were involved are gone. The PSU BOT has sent a message, maybe not soon enough or not strong enough, but sent nonetheless. In fact, I suspect they'll make every effort possible to take the best care of those kids to try and put this behind them ASAP. Further, I think if anyone complains about mistreatment of any kind, they'll be listened to, not brushed off.
Yes, I DO KNOW for a FACT. Because that is exactly what McQueary said in the grand jury testimony. He is the friggin' recruiting coordinator fergodsakes.
He, FOR A FACT, kept quiet after witnessing a MONSTROUS deed. So, how could you trust sending your son to that program, knowing that the recruiting coordinator has no qualms about keeping quiet with something like that?
We don't even have to discuss anyone else. We KNOW FOR A FACT that McQueary will toe the company line, even in the most heinous circumstances. How could you send your child to that environment?
i can't believe people rioted in favor of keeping paterno. i'm just so stunned and baffled by that.
No one bothered to flip Sandusky's car or rip up his lawn. But when it appeared the BoT might disrupt their season, then it was time to tear shit up. Just disgusting.
I really worry other victims might be afraid to come forward after seeing the mob's reaction.
Just curious, did Paterno say/do anything in regards to the riot? Seems like if he said, "Stop it, go home and go to sleep or go study." It would stop. Another opportunity for Paterno to do the right thing that he is going to miss.
Actually he did say that to the crowd that gathered outside his house that night. He told them to go study. No idea if those kids dispersed, but overall it did nothing. The undergrads weren't rioting over ethics or defending Paterno at that point. They were acting out because they're afraid the BoT will go nuclear on the football program and it won't be good anymore.
we got fun and games.
Bolivian'd. One week.
I feel like this should go without saying, but we have implemented a "no pedophilia jokes" rule for the foreseeable future.
Eh. Thought I'd test the water. But you're right, too soon. Fair MGoPunishment is fair.
wow you certainly are in Bolivia
You'd think a no pedophilia joke thing would have been in place before and be a law around here...
is not a joking matter.
I'm Engin77, and I endorse this policy.
how about instead of "foreseeable future" we say "forever".
I'd be concerned about going myself.
I hope everyone keeps calm in Happy Valley on Saturday.
my fiance' works for CNN here in Atlanta. She just texted me that the anchors are working on a lead that goes past what we've already seen. They are checking into a lead that Sandusky was also pimping these kids out to donors. THIS IS UNCONFIRMED, yet more could still come out of this. Terrible.
Again, just informing you of a lead that CNN is working on behind the scenes.
EDIT: again, just confirming what BISB posted above. This is about to get much messier.
Mark Madden in Pittsburgh is already reporting that.
No way he will be anywhere someone can cause him harm on Saturday, if the University hasn't come to their senses and fired him by then
My hope is that the BoT fired the President and Paterno, figuring the rest of the fish could be fired by the interim President. So I want to see the interim President terminate McQueary today or tomorrow.
in the booth, not on the sidelines, and I assume there will be extra security up there.
...that the "pimping" allegations aren't true. It's too disgusting to even think about.
1) Have there been any more stories about the prosecutor who just disappeared a few years ago? That to me is just a weird facet of this entire story.
2) What bugs me about the way the media handled this, is how it wasn't really a "story" until after the weeks football games were over. At least that is how it felt to me.
It started on Saturday where ESPN just referred to it as "sexual assault of young men". Which, not being familiar with anything surrounding Sandusky, my friends and I all assumed it was college guys or at worst high school recruits, which is bad but not as what it turned out to be. Did ESPN not know? Or, were they tempering it for some reason or another?
And granted, I was on the road most of Sunday but there was hardly any mention of it on the radio. And even Monday there wasn't a lot. Then Tuesday it blew up.
Am I the only one who feels that way?
And clearly, the way its being discussed after the fact where its all about Joe Paterno's f'ing legacy is disgusting. The people who rioted last night give me little faith for the next batch of college graduates and their ability to put things in proper perspective.
And btw, Buckeye or not, Kirk Herbstreit's comments last night were dead on, on all fronts.
How about.....it wasn't really a story or released until Joe Paterno got his 409th win, passing Eddie Robinson?
I think people should stop calling Paterno "the winningest coach in major college football" and instead recognize John Gagliardi of St. John's University in Minnesota, who has 459 wins, as the winningest coach in college football history, full stop.
It became a story when the grand jury handed down the indictment. Up to that point it was just a rumor, and one that was apparently easy to dismiss (as pointed out upthread, that's what happened on this board as well).
Or are you suggesting that the prosecutor and/or presiding judge arranged the schedule so the indictment wouldn't come down until Joe got his 409? I suppose that's not inconceivable.
That seems a little sensationalistic to me. He was at his home, where else is he going to go? He would have to be retarded to step foot on that school property right now.
Now, the fact that his home is so close to an elementary school in the first place seems to be more than a little suspicious at this point. I think it's safe to assume that he won't be allowed anywhere near any kids for the rest of his life non-jail life, though.
Brooks should be ignored (always). He has no idea what the hell he's talking about. He was apparently just making shit up on Versus, because he's clueless.
EDIT: In a segment they could have been talking to Spencer Hall, too! Sad.
Click here if anyone wants to donate to the charity that Black Shoe Diaries has latched onto relating to victims of molestation:
Urgh. Scroll down a bit and look for the exchange between skarocksoi and wolv1984. Bad trolling Michigan fan, bad fan!
(Although the guy joking about theft did kind of open himself up for that one)
Per the NY Times, the worst condemnation of all is that the President of PSU, Graham Spanier, is a trained therapist with a PhD in Sociology! They had a trained, expert professional at the very top of the Administration who knew better than most the proper procedure to follow and that pedophiles are difficult, if not to impossible, to rehabilitate.
goes even further, in an article entitled:
Penn State's Dangerous Culture of Silence at the Top
Former university president Graham Spanier, not Joe Paterno, deserves the majority of the blame for covering up the child-molestation allegations
This is referring to something that I find to be one of the most important secondary points of the story, and one that everybody in the media seems to be ignoring: the reason that everybody kept quiet.
When the House of Representatives was investigating the Nixon White House's reaction to the Watergate break-in, Nixon staffer Jeb Magruder was asked "When was it decided that there would be a cover-up?" The answer: "We never considered that there wouldn't be a cover-up."
So here are the top 3 people in the University's athletic governance structure--the President, the AD, the football coach--all deciding, either independently or collectively, to try to keep this from getting out. You can't say that the cover-up is as bad as the original crime, but you can certainly say that the cover-up allowed more children to be abused, and that the people covering for Sandusky would of course have known that was likely to be the result. They were more concerned about their own reputations than they were about these kids.
As far as McQueary is concerned, I almost wonder if he was ordered not to go to the cops. Of course, he should have ignored that order if he was given it, but I do wonder what kind of pressures he was facing from above.
Just saw a report that Nebraska's AD is concerned for the Nebraska players' safety in Happy Valley this weekend. Something I never even considered. Is anyone else thinking that this game should not happen (even though it probably has to happen because of scheduling, etc.)? Can you imagine what will happen in and out of the stadium if Nebraska rolls in and smokes PSU?
This whole game screams "neutral site". Move it to one of the pro stadiums in Philly or Pitt and take the hit on ticket refunds if you must. Neb travels really well and shit could easily go nuclear on Saturday.
Indiana has a bye this week; play the game there.
that most of the victims were young black kids.
We'll see if that angle gets tied in as a cause for the lack of action by the Penn State officials.
i i have not seen nor heard this anywhere. care to elaborate on your source?
I don't want to jump to conclusions, but holy crap
"[Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar] disappeared on April 15, 2005 after telling his girlfriend that he was going on a drive.
Ray Gricar’s car was found the next day in a Lewisburg parking lot and his laptop, sans hard drive, was found in the Susquehanna River, according to the Patriot-News.
This is getting creepier and creepier.
Yesterday, I was having a conversation with a friend on wether or not JOPA should retire. We began discussing the whole of the situation and a question came up - It seems the PSU insiders were protecting Sandusky - why? Why wouldn't you just let the creep reap what he had sewn? I mentioned that one possibility was he was using his charity to provide boys for people of power and influence. This was before I knew of the most recent updates alleging exactly that. Look up the Franklin child prostitution ring. I fear this story isn't over and in time it will lead to a very cold dark pit of hell.
Wikipedia says the Franklin child prostitution ring allegations were false.
Two grand juries ruled the allegations to be false and two purported victims were indicted for perjury, ...
Perhaps it was a hoax or perhaps the allegations were so damning that the system could not let them go forward. Remember, the cops at PSU closed their case against Sandusky in 98/99. The ADA went missing in 2005. His laptop was found months later without the hard drive.
I wouldn't be so quick to write it off as a hoax, also the media coverage and technology were a lot less sophisticated then, I wouldn't be surprised if some damning emails and/or pictures surface in this case at some point.
I would guess there will be no scenario where any of the current PSU staff is rehired after this season. The BOT and new AD will most likely want to start with a clean slate. I can understand this. Given that a coaching staff is a very close knit group, it's hard to believe that the rest of them (other than Paterno and McQueary) were not aware to some degree of Sandusky's depravity. They (rest of the assistant coaches) may all be completely innocent. But the BOT investigation must determine whether any of them was involved in the cover up. Either way, I think the process of purging the program of this scandal will involve a totally new football staff. Tom Bradley will be interviewed for the job, but it will be as a courtesy given his years of service to the school.
Would anyone else like to prove themselves reprehensible human beings out of this mess? Oh wait, Bret Bielema, you have something to say?
"Guess it's a good time to be a Badger fan."
Was giving graduation speeches as late as 2007. Disgusting. Imagine how it would feel to his victim and seeing that jackass get feted.
An interesting perspective. Good to keep in mind:
I'm going to be interested to see the atmosphere of Beaver Stadium on Saturday. I really hope these students wrap their heads around Joe's wrongdoing and realize the BoT had no other option.
I'm guessing the students are in denial about what Paterno did (or didn't do) and don't want to believe what happened, which probably created the outcry we saw last night.
Color me amazed he is actually going out in public these days. I don't even mean as motivated by shame, but just for sake of self-preservation, you'd think he'd be deep in a bunker.
Anyone who did what he (allegedly) did probably doesn't have a really good grasp on reality the way the rest of us do. You would have to create such a web of lies that you tell yourself in order to perpetuate the kind of horrid things you're compelled to do and still function in normal society with everyone else. I can't even imagine the psychological tap dance he had to do on a daily basis to be a functioning member of a family, a husband, and a father.
In a news story from August 2005, 3 Penn State football players were suspended for making harrassing phone calls to "a retired member of the Penn State football family."
This is essentially nothing, but I have been wondering how much of a secret this actually was. I think it will soon be clear that Sandusky's actions were common knowledge among the football team and athletic staff.
As of 2:45 EDT, I have yet to hear if Tim Curley has been fired by Penn State University. We know McQueary is still a coach at Penn State. Both men failed, much like Joe Paterno to notify the police. Curley has been criminally charged for perjury and his failure to notify the police - something he had both a moral and legal responsibility to do.
Last night I watched one of the worst press conferences imaginable. Penn State had an obligation to do the MORAL thing that I keep hearing about. That would have been to fire the President (they did), fire Joe Paterno (they did), fire Curley (they didn't address it), and also then put in motion a plan to have the entire board step down since they are responsible for the hiring and continued employment for those directing the university.
They had a chance to explain clearly why these firing occurred - for Spanier, his responsiblity as a President and the failure of his subordiantes, for Paterno for neither contacting police or following up - the moral thing to do, for Curley for not only failing to act morally, but apparently breaking the law, and finally for McQuearry for doing the same, or not doing as much as needed, like Paterno. They could have sent a strong message that this is unacceptable. Instead they just tried to deflect attention from the situation by tossing out two bodies to the media, the most visible people, while keeping the biggest offender on staff.
When asked if they'd pay the legal fees for Curley, they declined comment. They damn will. In fact, that liar will twist in the wind and do whatever PSU wants. Don't be surprised if he lies up and down to both save his arse and make Paterno and Spanier look like total liars. In fact, between Curley and McQueary, they can both paint Paterno as the real villian and save their behinds.
Penn State had an opportunity to make a very strong statement by all taking responsibility, not just putting it on an 84 year old man who made a horrible, damning mistake. They failed to do the MORAL thing.
Curley is basically fired unless something spectacular happens (and it won't). The fact that he remains officially on administrative leave for a while is not a big deal.
Curley is already lawyered up and the attorneys may be driving some of the time table.
Not to worry, he is GONE!
Yeah, you fire Curley after he is convicted of prejury. Then you can hold a press conference, call him a scumbag, announce he gets no benefits, and he has no legal recourse to go after you.
If you unload on him prior to his conviction, you might end up eating a wrongful termination lawsuit. Many lawyers be good at scummy moves.
He's getting the Drew Sharp treatment now:
"Evil flourishes when good men do nothing"
This quote is variously attributed to Edmund Burke or Tolstoy but sums up the situation.
1. What is charged in Happy Valley in the Penn State locker room and elsewhere on campus was evil, not bad, not a violation of some NCAA rule, but evil.
2. Joe Paterno began his career aiming to do good and arguably did a lot of good.
3. But when he came up against evil, he didn't act the way we all hoped he would - and fight to protect that one particular kid and ultimately other kids from this monstrosity which lived in his own professional house.
As many noted, Paterno isn't the evil party here. But he isn't the innocent bystander many PSU students and others would like to cling to. People can do good and people can also make mistakes. Unfortunately in this case, Coach Paterno could have and should have done much more and didn't. During a long career filled with many good deeds, he made one very bad horrific mistake.
We won't see the end of this for a long time - questions about McCreary's duty and obligations, questions about what the Board of Trustees knew in the past, questions about how the local police handled things.
McQueary will be in the box on Sat, not on the sideline. Per ESPN. Not that it's really that different.
Ehh forget it, what I was going to relate has already been covered downthread.
I feel like I'm watching some disturbing, dark movie that I wish would be over soon.
and Paterno got fired. But....
My heart hurts when I think about what happened at PSU. My heart feels like it did when the world trade center was attacked. I am once again, disappointed in my fellow man!
Paterno and McQueary had an opportunity to be heroes when they learned what they did. Instead they buried their heads in the sand and enabled this problem to endure.
Joe Pa = fail
McQueary = fail
and Paterno, Curley et al agrred to coverup the crimes in exchange for Sandusky retirement, Paterno, Curley & Co. will all go down for obstructing justice and being accomplices to a crime. Iff all that turns out to be true, Paterno is the worst kind of scum and he makes Tressel, Kiffin, Carroll and others like him look saints.
If the speculation about pimping are also true, the University will suffer so much financially and reputation-wise it might not recover and could see a boot from the Big-10.
All I can say is WOW!
Tom VH got a hold of a PSU recruiting letter sent out by McQueary, likely in wake of either the OSU or UM investigations...
Even n the absolute worst case scenario: defensive coordinator in prison for felony sex abuse, athletic director, president and head coach all up on felony obstruction of justice charges--they still won't have been investigated for violating any NCAA regulations.
He wasn't trying to set any records or he loved football and couldn't leave it. He was afraid the cover-up would be exposed.
Joe Pa is nothing. McQueary is worse. They can all rot in hell!
look at all the idiots that still worship Roman Polanski.
I really thought people were going to put Sports Justice over real justice. If everyone in charge at penn state got fired but joepa because he's the face of the program then that would really be disgusting. It'd basically say that JoePa's career if more important than the kids who were sexually assaulted. Brief round of applause for the PSU board to have the balls to can him
- Sandusky used the coaches' shower in the football building as an attack site on at least one occasion.
- Sandusky was barred by the university from bringing boys to the football complex after 1998. Per the grand jury report, victim 1 was brought to the football facility in 2007. Assistant coaches spend at least 15 hours every day at the football facility.
- Sandusky brought boys with him and housed them in his hotel room, in the same wing as the coaching staff, including (per the grand jury report) the 1999 Alamo Bowl.
- As a result of factual points 1-3, I believe the entire PSU coaching staff knew about Sandusky, yet turned a blind eye to him being around and bringing young boys around.
- Paterno and Spainer were (rightfully) fired for allowing Sandusky to have a place on campus where he could prey on young boys.
- By staying silent, the entire coaching staff is complicit.
- Therefore, the entire coaching staff should be immediately fired.
I also find it interesting that the Board of Trustees waited until yesterday to fire Paterno and Spainer. When Sandusky was arrested, they all had to have read the Grand Jury report. If so, they should immediately have rounded up the entire coaching staff, put them in separate rooms at the same time, and found out what they knew about Sandusky. Paterno and Spainer should have been fired later in the same day the Grand Jury report came out. Any coach on staff who knew what kind of sick person Sandusky was (which I believe is all of them) should have been immediately fired. Only after seeing how many (if any) coaches were still employed should they then have determined whether or not to play football the rest of the season.
I know it is not fair to the players and fans of PSU or their opponents to cancel PSU's last three games, but it is the cost of doing the right thing.
In the governor's address I believe it was, he stated that McQueary (former grad assistant in question) was not going to be on the sideline but instead was going to be in the coaches box. It has just been stated that McQueary will not be in attendance at all due to numerous threats made against him.
Which is in the running for stupidest fucking development of the entire case. People making death threats against McQueary, that is. A LOT of this case rests on the testimony of McQueary. I get that people are pissed off at McQueary for his role in this, but anyone who's pissed off enough to even think of righteous revenge on McQueary and jeopardize even one tiny fraction of the case against the ACTUAL PERPETRATOR needs to be sent to actual Bolivia until this case is over and Sandusky is in prison. That's just fucking retarded.
since the dude is an idiot,
Not completely. Sandusky could still go to jail for the rest of his life without McQueary's testimony. Even so there's really no good excuse to jeopardize even a portion of the case.
the victim #2 is not identified yet, so prosecutors cannot prosecute him based on MM's testimony, I believe.
this is like Watergate...but worse
rioting in favor of JoePa. I feel embarassed for them. They're going on espn yelling for JoePa to keep his job after he effectively permitting a child rapist to continue to operate unhindered. While they're at it, maybe they should blame those kids for having the audacity to interrupt their football season. As if the university wasn't embarassed enough already they've got thousands of their students marching in support of one of the people who enabled Sandusky to continue.
Here's an interesting aspect to the alleged cover-up. When the 1998 incident was being investigated, Penn State did not have an in-house general counsel. PSU relied on Wendell Courtney as outside general counsel. Wendell Courtney is referenced in the Grand Jury Presentment as having given his blessing to an investigation of Sandusky by University Police regarding the 1998 incident.
In 1998, Wendell Courtney was also counsel to The Second Mile.
In 2002, PSU Athletic Director Curley reported the March 1, 2002 incident to PSU President Spanier and also to Second Mile Executive Director Raykovitz. At that time, Wendell Courtney was outside general counsel to PSU and was also counsel to the Second Mile.
It stands to reason that Wendell Courtney was aware of both the 1998 incident and the 2002 incident, quite possibly in his potentially conflicted role as counsel to both PSU and the Second Mile regarding both of those incidents.
Amazingly, PSU President Spanier testified to the Grand Jury that he was unaware of the 1998 University Police investigation of Sandusky for incidents with children in football building showers.
Did Spanier not speak to PSU's outside general counsel about the Sandusky incidents?
Did PSU's outside general counsel fail to mention to PSU's President that he was aware of at least two separate incidents involving Sandusky with children in the football building showers?
Did the Second Mile's counsel, Wendell Courtney, fail to notify the Second Mile that he was aware of at least two separate incidents involving Sandusky with children in the football building showers?
Here's a picture of Wendell Courtney and President Spanier riding bikes to a Penn State football game on October 13, 2007. Courtney's in the middle, dressed in black. Spanier's to the right in the blue shirt sans tie.
thing up and connect the dots is campus pd, they were the link between all the self reported stuff from the athletic department and the outside prosecution, including the missing DA who is probably down in Brazil banging hot tail on JoePa's dime.
The head guy is supposedly retired and no comments every question from the media but the prosecution will find something to make him talk. This thing could get much much bigger, especially if they tie in the missing DA.
"Coach Paterno has meant more to me than anybody except my father," said Bradley, a Penn State graduate in his 33rd year as an assistant coach. "I don't want to get emotional and start talking about that, OK?"
Bradley said Paterno would be remembered as "one of the greatest men."
They hired the wrong guy...they should have gone outside the coaching tree...they should have canceled the season or let the students coach themselves. What a joke. Instead they hired a guy who had to be advised by his lawyer at his coronation press conference.
When this gets fully outed I doubt a coach or ball boy is going to come up clean. Instead they hire a guy who says McQueary should be on the sideline - as should Jay Paterno. Thank the lord the ToB told McQueary to stay home. I still question whether Penn State gets this.