I saw this a couple of weeks ago...My sister sent this to me on FB because my 12 year old daughter is having trouble accepting responsibility and being responsible. I showed this to my daughter as a forewaring........Hopefully it works.
Completely OT: Your thoughts on Father teaches Daughter Facebook Lesson?
I'm over 21.
1) Firearms are for self defense and hunting, little else.
2) The guy is a nutjob.
3) If you have to start shooting things in order to get your kid's attention, you've already lost him/her.
modern parents are afraid to discipline their kids, this kind of discipline is out of anger and is way too public to be effective. The daughter is already a spoiled brat and will respond in kind. He lost her a long time ago.
is that his pattern is too wide because he did not use both hands. I would have preferred to see him throw the laptop up in the air and shoot it with a 12 guage with Double-Ought Buckshot. THEN use the .45.
That is a very nice gun by the way. It is smooth as silk. I prefer the Sig Saurer .40 cal though. It does not jump as much as the .45 ACP.
Agreed. Regardless of the disciplinary message here, no adult should ever send the message that guns are (1) useful to prove a point, or (2) something to be employed jocularly.
And I'm over 21, if that matters.
This is dead on. You get kids to behave by setting a positive example, not acting like a child yourself. The dad has established a situation where father/daughter are enemy combatants in some eternal struggle for discipline and polite behavior. I doubt that will yield positive results (and clearly it hasn't in the past if he felt the need to resort to blowing her computer's brains out).
It isn't a coincidence that the lady screaming at her kids at the store always has the worst behaved kids.
On the flip side, the daughter seems like a snotty brat as well. There really are no winners here, but I think the bulk of the blame has to fall on the grown up who had the power to create/influence the situation from the start.
I've been a competitive trap shooter from a very young age... I feel left out by your #1 statement... :-(
I'm almost 40. I don't have kids. I don't want kids (mostly because this is what kids turn into). HOWEVER...it has been my experience that every child on the planet goes through a phase where they think they are the victims of the most oppresive regime since Pol Pot. A child nailing him or herself to a cross and crying, "Poor me" is hardly a man-bites-dog story.
When your child does this, it's important that YOU remain the adult. You do what I say because I say so. When the kid throws a tantrum, it doesn't change the fact that "you do what I say so because I said so. If you fail to do this, there will be consequences." Taking a gun and shooting your kids laptop just makes you an over-reacting douche. You're turning into the stereotype that your child has accused you of being.
Again...this is why I don't have kids. This is why I have a two-year-old flat-coated retriever named, "Bo." Isn't he a handsome devil?
I'm not a father. I don't pretend to know what one does. I know that you're only hypothesizing, but let's not bust someone's balls when we've never been in their shoes.
Just because I like beating dead horses, I'll add this: I love my dad even though he's done some messed up things. He loves me (I'm still not sure why) even though I've messed up (like, a lot). You choose to love someone, regardless of their actions. This guy clearly (and I'm judging him as a human, not a father) doesn't love without reserve. Call me a hippy (I'm...nvm, no politics) but I really believe that.
There are more effective ways to reach your kids.
With that said, I think it's pretty stupid and embarrassing for him to do that. Next, he put it online. He sounds about as mature as she is.
Maybe the meta-point he was actually trying to make was something about genetic determinism? =P
Can't say that I see where anyone got hurt here, except an innocent laptop that never did nobody no harm. But it's his laptop, after all. Not hers. Kids these days, etc. etc. She got the message. Yes, I'm over 21.
It's probably the gun thing that gets people wailing and gnashing their teeth here. If he'd simply put the laptop in the trash it would've been the same thing and people wouldn't be going "OMG OMG so terrible!!!" I consider those people a bunch of nancies who never had any punishment from their parents except to be asked nicely to stop their misbehavior. They're probably also horrified that the NCAA was so mean to Ohio State.
Do you also think it would've been the same thing if he had lynched the laptop, or chained it to the back of his pickup truck and dragged it down a dirt road?
Symbolism is important. The fact that he uses a gun as a toy is important.
I didn't really get the message that the gun was a toy.
Yes, I do. It's a laptop. An inanimate object. We're not talking about dragging people down the road, or even a thing that looks like a person. It's possible to take symbolism too far.
Then it would be like he murdered an American icon.
Clearly you are oversimplifying things.
I truthfully don't get what you're getting at here.
The fact that he shot the f*ck out of it made a difference. This wasn't the first time that she went behind her parents' backs' and posted something like this. He was fed up and tired of her abusing the purpose of HIS laptop and also complaining about menial chores.
it's probably the gun that gets people upset and without the gun people would not be upset, to the conclusion that "those people" are a bunch of nancies who were never punished? First off, which people are you talking about? The people who were not offended or the people who don't like the gun? If it's the first, then what the fuck are you talking about. If it's the second, how the hell does not liking guns relate at all to the severity of punishment one received in their upbringing?
Oh wait, I get it now. You're just an idiot.
However, the parenting-by-21,000,000 views is the issue.
It wouldn't be any different if he'd "just" gone Office Space on it.
Or didn't do anything to the laptop at all.
Something tells me that this line of action didn't do much to help his daughter's feelings toward her parents...
I'm over 21 (and also a father, though my son is only 2). I get what the father in the video is trying to do. He's trying to teach respect to his daughter. And if her actions warrant her loss of privilages, then that's fine. We even have a "toy jail" for my son. (When he throws toys, the TOYS go to jail.) The idea that actions have consequences is one that I'm sure nobody disagrees with. However, I'm not sure what the value is in posting this all over the youtubes. Since she no longer has computer privilages in her home, is she going to see this? And if she did, how does it teach her to respect her elders? To me, this seems childish and disrespectful on his part, and because of this I think that his intended lesson is lost.
It's probably the gun thing that gets people wailing and gnashing their teeth here.
Perhaps...but you had to admit, taking to the internet to rally support to your cause when YOU ARE THE PARENT is pretty weak.
I don't see it as "rallying support to his cause." She embarrassed him in public, on the Internet. I get the "you are the parent / mature adult / grown-up" thing, and the idea that you shouldn't have to go that far to control your kids if you're really a good parent etc. etc. But unfortunately, kids get half their parenting from society. And this isn't the 1950s where if you were misbehaving, society in the form of your neighbors on the block informed your parents of your misdeeds. We have an Internet society that encourages rebellion, lets you put your every grievance out for public consumption, and schools that are essentially toothless to control their students. Parents have to put their kids out in society and hope for the best. They rarely get the best; friends, peers, and the Internet tend to encourage whiny misbehavior. So this, to me, is clever use of that society to turn the tables.
I get where you are coming from, but I think the key point is that he did it because "she embarassed him." This wasn't about improving her behavior or raising a better daughter. It was about him feeling weak/humiliated and attempting to turn the tables on her to regain the upper hand and put her in her place.
I imagine this power struggle dynamic has existed all along (more interested in controlling kids than in raising them) and that this caused all the initial strife as well. If you've done your job as a parent your kid won't be on Facebook trashing you for the fact that she has to do some chores around the house. Busting a few caps in her electronics to make up for more than a decade of sub-par parenting isn't the answer to anybody's problems.
I think that "if you've done your job as a parent" is too easy to say. We have no idea about their past, and I somehow doubt this guy has been either neglectful or too light on the discipline. After all, he mentions her having been grounded before, having the laptop taken away before, etc., and what good did any of it do? And what is the magic bullet (so to speak) that should have been used when she was five so that she wasn't such a bitch when she was 15? I don't like instantly casting judgment that he must be a lousy father because he let it get to this point. Who is anybody to say?
I don't think this is about feeling weak or humiliated. Betrayed, perhaps. But again: parents are only in contact with their kids for so many hours a day. The rest of it is taken up with peers who probably did think her Facebook post was cute and rebellious and wonderful. She took her silly little grievances to the internet, so her father decided to play the game on her terms. Is it that crazy to think that that would get through to her a lot better than the old speeches about walking uphill both ways to school?
Bringing down the hammer when a kid screws up isn't a complete parenting plan. I doubt this guy lets her get away with too much, but their situation is still a complete mess.
The best behaved, well adjusted, successful kids I've come across didn't get that way because they had the baddest parents on the block. They got that way because they respected their parents and had internalized their values. I don't know that there is a magic bullet that makes that happen, but I think it comes from honesty, communication, consistency, and fairness combined with a strict sense that certain lines cannot be crossed without negative consequences. Just cracking skulls isn't enough and if it is the only round in your chamber, so to speak, you are going to get a situation like this where parent/child are in a state of constant combat.
I'm more than happy to judge a guy on these grounds who, when his solution of harsh punishment doesn't work, resorts to blowing up his daughter's stuff on the internet. Going nuclear in a case where judicious use of the carrot and the stick could have prevented the problem before it ever existed is I think a sign that the guy has screwed up as a parent. If the lesson he is trying to teach is, "Don't make an ass of yourself or your family on the internet where everyone can see it forever!" then he has really done a shitty job of making his point.
I don't know if you have kids, but I do so I'd like to wade in here. You mention that bringing the hammer (not that I agree with that father's interpretation of it) isn't a complete parenting plan. While I agree that the hammer shouldn't be the only "tool" in your belt it should be there. I'm assuming that your point is that constant reliance on it isn't an effective plan, I agree. A multi-tooled approach works best. However I think that one of the problems we have as a society is that too many parents aren't willing to take the hammer off the belt and use it. I would much prefer to use a combination of lower level positive and negative motivations first. Having said that sometimes the hammer needs to come out. If you don't use it you can create a whole other set of issues. I have no idea what the dynamics are in this house but whatever they are you can't say that using the hammer on a 15 year old means you've lost her already. 15 year olds are still trying to push boundaries and learn where the fringes of accetable behavior are in society. I agree that your window of influence at that age is closing quickly, most likely you've got one more year or two.
If I can fault the guy on anything I would guess it's not being as involved with her choice of associations. Associations are one of the most critical aspects of becoming an adult. Peer groups are so impoprtant at that age. Those you choose to spend your time with are going to have major influence in your world views and self perceptions. That influence Includes what home life expectations are reasonable, how to dress, how to talk and even how to view your parents. I suspect his daughter has close friends that talk about their parents in a negative way and feel that they're owed everything. That leads to entitlement mentalities and victim thinking. Nothing good comes from those.
That's complete bullshit. Yeah, there are a lot of 'bad' kids that are products of bad parenting, but there's also a ton of kids who are bad despite parenting. Parenting is not the only thing that produces a person's personality, behavior, etc. Some kids are just plain difficult while others have other problems like depression or ADHD. Other people and kids influence those children as well, not to mention media sources that can promote the wrong message. No parent can protect their child from all outside influences and trying to do so would just be seen as over-protective and wrong (which I'd agree with).
My parents were great but I had huge depression problems that made me think I was some victim and caused me to be rebellious. They could've taken away everything I had but that wouldn't change the fact that I wasn't going to subject to their 'rule'. There is very little that they could have done that would have changed my mindset. Parenting has a huge role on a person, but it isn't even the majority influence on a person. As someone who studies psychology, I see it all too often how people think that bad parenting must be the reason for a bad child, when there's a lot of cases where the child was just difficult and influenced by outside sources.
I think about the parenting thing a lot. Because we adopted twins, who came from, shall we say, a challenged beginning, we often ponder the relationship of internal and external influence, of nature and nurture. That is to say, some people are genetically wired a certain way, and what happens externally has a limited impact. It is a scary thing to consider that no matter what we do as parents, we can only do so much, and perhaps our children are going to go down a certain path because of a genetic predisposition. Who knows.
All I can say is that I admire your willingness to share on your own personal experience of rebelliousness, regardless of parenting. I've seen different studies that come up with different conclusions. We can simply agree that the dad who shot his daughter's laptop was NOT using good parenting skills.
No kid can buy a TV or a computer or a radio or a smart phone or anything else that can allow the media to influence him. A responsible parent can/should know who their kid is hanging out with and the parents of that kid as well, one of whom should be supervising/monitoring most activities until the kid is well on his way to maturity. A kid is also entirely dependent on his parents for the necessities of life until long after his personality has developed. If a parent isn't the biggest influence on his kid's life (but has somehow been supplanted by the other kids he sees at recess), then he has fucked up as a parent and passed the buck to others (TV, teachers, peers, etc.).
Being a bad parent isn't the same as being a bad person. It is an extremely difficult job and most people are completely unprepared to take it on. There are also wildly varying degrees of success/failure (and if you are studying psychology, I'm guessing your "rebelliousness" wasn't all that damaging). That doesn't mean that parents don't have full control of the situation should they choose to exercise it from an early age. Most are just too lazy or disinterested to exercise that control, or simply don't know how to do it.
EDIT: By the way, this is coming from someone who was a terribly behaved teenager who drove his parents crazy with my refusal to do school work and love of sweet, sweet hooch.
I think the whole putting bullets in the laptop thing is wasteful and just overly grandeous. Its like he did that more for his own enjoyment than teaching his daughter a lesson.
That being said, I do think the whole posting a video on her page that refutes her note and basically embarrasses her in the same forum she used to disrespect her family is pretty good. Subtract the laptop destruction and I think its a pretty good punishment/lesson.
Wasting the laptop bothered me too. I would have done the same, but donated it to a needy child who would have appreciated it.
Agreed. Another example of the wastefulness exhibited by us middle class Americans everyday. Getting in a online war with our child is a perfect reason to destroy something that so many can't afford to have but wish for. Charming.
If you drive anything but the Michigan Solar Car you are wastefull too (to some extent).
Look, I get the "KIDS THESE DAYS! RABBLE RABBLE!" sentiment behind supporting the father in question. Should a daughter post complaints about her family, specifically her parents on facebook? No. First, as a facebook user, there's nothing worse than that person who just uses facebook to talk about how crappy their life is. We get it, parents are like, so totally unfair. Most people have experienced that feeling, and no one cares. Secondly, I personally would never denigrate any family member or close friend of mine publicly like that. Maybe that's just me. So do I understand the people who take a negative attitude towards the daughter? Yes.
However, I think both parties end up looking stupid. First of all, the whole "Parents are so unfair!" thing is a complaint that's been around forever. Maybe kids didn't put their parents on blast on the internet before recently, but that's only because they couldn't before. Kids would just tell everyone at school (or wherever) how (perceivably) crappy their parents were as opposed to write in online. I think a lot of the support for the Dad is fueled by some cross-generational contempt that to me is unwarranted and silly. More importantly though, as a mature adult, the father completely misses the boat by attempting to teach his daughter a lesson by pulling the exact same stunt on her, except with the delightful addition of violent gunfire imagery. Grow up. Pulling your daugher aside and scolding her is perfectly fine, but starting an internet flame war with your child sets a terrible example and just makes you look like a short-tempered buffoon.
And I personally think the dad shooting the laptop was a just—albeit overdramatic (maybe thats where the daughter gets it from)—punishment. She did not pay for the laptop, so it's not like he was destroying something she bought with her own money. I think the kicker is that she has been grounded for a couple months for something like this in the past, so she you think she would have learned the first time.
I thought about it a little more, and the more I think about it, the more I have a problem with it. I still the believe the punishment is acceptable, it might be a little extreme, but it is what it is. However, the medium through which the punishment took place is stupid.
To think hypothetically, lets say you are the dad. You just read your daughter complain about you in a very elaborate and public facebook post which listed all the things she's felt you've done wrong parenting her and how she is taken for granted. You disagree with these and you're infuriated. This is completely legitimate. However, how do you rebute to her complaints. You choose to make a youtube video, where you list all the things wrong that she has done wrong and how you are taken for granted. It almost seems hypocritical. He's responding with a public complaint with a public complaint of his own (followed by shooting her computer).
I think, as a parent, there are much better ways to deal with this. I still think he has legitimate points. Had he simply reprimanded her/grounded her/shot her computer, in a less public way then I think he would be right. However, to do so publicly is him more or less doing the same thing that his daughter did.
I think that the video has gotten such a positive response, particularly from parents, is because it's a fantasy that so many parents have wanted to do, but it remains a fantasy because it's something they should not do.
Assuming what the dad says is true about the daughter being lazy then I'd say its fair to say both the dad and daughter are in the wrong.
The daughter for being lazy and the dad for overreacting and going about things the wrong way. Being strict is one thing but this type of public humiliation is over the top.
Sure...I'll humor you. I thought it was completely over the line. Every kid trashes their parents until they're old enough to understand how stupid that is, and that's never going to stop until the end of time. Heck, I'd put my money down that he did it when he was a teen, just of course not in the way kids today do. But now, he's made his daughter a target of ridicule of millions online as well as the hundreds she's encounters in person.
However, at the end of the day, he admitted, in his own words, "the punishment didn't fit the crime." At least he recognizes that. This ended up being nothing more than a fantasy many parents want to play out, but probably shouldn't ever actually do. I wish I could say this video will serve as a warning to kids to be careful what they say online, but pretty much it is nothing more than a sneezing panda-esque viral video...except it's at the expense of his daughter. As someone who is not yet a parent, yet 10 years past my idiot high schooler days, I again decree this as over the line, but good for a laugh.
Everyone in this looks dumb.
Immature kid for posting that about her parents in public. The stuff she complains about isn't really that bad anyway. She's upset she had to get her Dad a coffee and clean the house?
Stupid dad for shooting a laptop...I won't even get too far into this one but Jesus give it to charity or something. You can shoot beer bottles, cans, etc. I think this goes double when you spend half of the video talking about how much time you spent fixing it. At this point, he not only 'taught her a lesson' but wasted his own time.
I guess it comes down to this: If a Dad thinks shooting a computer is the best way to reach his kid, I suppose I can see why a teenager may not communicate well with her parents.
EDIT: Also, she didn't do anything as bad as this
Facebook started when i was a junior in college.. back then only kid's who were in college were allowed to be on it.
I wish it didn't get so big, because that is the way it should of stayed..
I could give a shit about the video, because there are 1000's of these kind of videos online discussing parents and facebook monitoring etc..
Either way, the fact that this guy has so many views for this video mean's he is now making money off it.. So props to him
I'm really glad that I didn't have Facebook when I was in high school. I would never have posted anything to this extreme, but I'm sure I would have posted a bunch of dumbass stuff. And I see it everyday from my littler cousins who are on Facebook - posting stuff they shouldn't be posting online. And I read all the time about another Facebook bullying incident around America. It's just not a positive outlet for anyone under the college level (although I know plenty of people over the age of 21 who post stuff just as idiotic as 15 year olds do).
Well that'll teach her to appreciate her father!
...or to start building up some unnerving aggression towards him.
If I had put /s it wouldn't have been funny.
I'm over 21, with no kids. The dad crossed a line. I don't really care about the gun, I care about the publicity of the whole thing. He didn't have to go put the video on YouTube.
It seems like this wasn't an isolated incident in their relationship, and I understand that, over time, bitterness and resentment can build up if conflict is not dealt with healthily, and that can lead to overreactions. From the outside looking in, it seems to me that this is what's going on. That's not an excuse for him to do this, though. She made her complaints public and humiliated her parents on Facebook, but if he's going to be an effective model of grace and forgiveness, he shouldn't respond by publicly humiliating her.
What's your take on it, SRK?
and you hit the nail on the head. You want a kid to turn on you for certain? Call them out loudly and in public. You can be strict and give valuable life lessons without resorting to youtube. Remember how we all made fun of/chastised Brian Kelly for turning purple at a kid who had the audacity to fuck up a football play? Same thing, no?
Meh, you do what you do. Agree that shooting the laptop is a little excessive. That said, she wouldn't have one for quite awhile if I'd found her doing this, as it'd be locked in my room. Kids say stupid things. Should you punish her? Probably, yes, if only on the grounds that you really shouldn't talk crap about your family to randoms that you barely know. But his is definitely an less-than-classy overreaction. That said, he's got 30 million hits, so if he was doing it for attention, it worked. I bet he has been (or will be) invited to talk shows, as well. So his little temper tantrum made him some money. Doubt he regrets it.
27, don't have kids.
If he really wanted to prove a point he should set the laptop at a further distance. Anyone can look like a tough guy at point blank range.
In all seriousness, it is his choice to deal with it in that manner, I just would have responded differently. Im only 23 so what do I know about raising kids.
Over 21 and a parent, but of toddlers, not of teens. I know how crazy kids can drive you(but again have no idea what teens can do which I imagine is orders of magnitude greater than what my four year old is capable of). Still, this strikes me as silly and overdramatic in all phases and likely to backfire as I can't see his daughter reacting to this by going, "ah now I see the error of my ways."
I'm as much a fuddy duddy as anyone else and I do think this latest generation is "different" in terms of expectations of reward for effort, but as muchas I want to tell this guy "Good Job!" I just can't.
The gun thing bugs me only in that it was overkill, beyond that the laptop was on the ground and over dirt so there wasn't going to be ricochet and he didn't waive the gun around, he used it for it's purpose and then put it away. I know people are scared of guns, but his actual handling didn't strike me as irresponsible.
I personally think it's funny.
But from a parenting standpoint all he did was bring the fight to a teenage level. If you, as the parent, at like a teenager you're going to get the exact same back from your kid. You have to act like a parent.
With that said, I don't really care. He can do with his kid what he wants but after some 30,000,000+ people have seen her dad embarrass her on youtube and national TV, I'm guessing she isn't sticking around long after she turns 18 and their relationship is probably ruined.
I'm over 21 and have been a parent for all of 7 months. This guy is a complete lunatic. There are ways to discipline your children that don't involve firearms, many of them. There are ways to deal with disobedient/disrespectful teens, shooting their laptop isn't one of them. Take it away or revoke her internet access, something that fits the punishment. Right now you've set a precedent that lunatic behavior is acceptable. If you react like a complete nutjob to your kids screwups they're going to act like a lunatic to your behavior (I would imagine especially when it comes to behavior that affects theirs). To me, he just amplified the problem, didn't fix it. I'm sure she threw a temperatantrum...and i'm sure in the future her reactions to discipline from her parents won't be one of disappointment or regret for doing wrong but rather an outburst unwarranted reaction becausse that's the expectation now.
He just screams drama queen to me. I mean, why discipline your daughter in such a public manner. I think he is just trying to get some attention for himself. I also don’t see any way that this parenting method is effective. I know if I was a teenager and my father tried to discipline me using a viral you tube video, I would be infuriated and absolutely not respond to anything he was trying to say.
Also, as a former member of the military, I take gun safety pretty seriously. I don’t think I would classify that as an acceptable use of a firearm.
1. Put the laptop away somewhere in a place (like work) where the child cannot find the damn thing.
2. Make the child do chores, rake, wash etc. - i.e. extra mean things.
3. Hold firm until designated chores or whatever (make it meaningful) are done.
4. If child is not a complete brat, the work will get done and the child can issue an apology on facebook. *
5. Laptop given back.
*. If the child is a complete brat, make the child delete her facebook account, backup any homework on laptop and rewrite hard drive.
Most of that stuff had already been done. It didn't get the message across. She'd already lost her laptop privileges, etc. Plus, I see a lot of people saying that he shouldn't have taken it to a public forum like that - what's the difference between that and forcing her to apologize on Facebook? Wouldn't that be more humiliating?
My take? They're both wrong. However, I would say the father is more in the wrong, for some of the same reasons I sometimes see in posts about recruits and coaches. Namely, you expect the adult to act like an adult, and use childhood immaturity as a teaching moment. The father thinks this is a teaching moment? Not the way he went about it.
The father is kind of saying, "Nana Nana Boo Boo." He has already lost a lot of respect from his daughter, maybe has lost her altogether. His actions are over the top. He's the grownup, and owning the laptop isn't license for acting immaturely, even if you have the right to do so.
However, the lack of respect from the daughter for her parents, the failure to heed a previous warning about social media/facebook use, the failure to contribute to household chores, these are all problems that need to be addressed. I think it is appropriate to take away the laptop, to take away a number of privileges, and to expect her to work in the household as part of the family.
As a parent of three, I deal with these issues. Doesn't every parent? My kids don't get an allowance, are expected to do chores, to work and perform academically, and to contribute to the life of the family. Our twin 10 year olds have a paper route, and each make about $50 a month. They're expected to save a bunch of it, and to use their own money if they want a Slurpee or candy from the corner 7-11. I know we're "mean" and expect more of them than many parents do, but that's life . . . they're stuck with us.
I guess the one area where I'm unsure is the use of social media. Because the daughter has fired the first salvo by putting her rant on Facebook, I kind of feel that the father has the right to refute her rant on Facebook, to spell out what her actual household duties are, and to spell out consequences for her poor actions. If he had merely taken away the laptop, but given her the opportunity to earn it back with 3 - 6 months of good behavior, I would have been better with the video.
I must say, I'm still pondering this whole thing. I do, in general, think that when youth feel entitled, and have few or little responsibilities, and face few or no consequences for bad decisions, it only hurts them down the road.
when youth feel entitled, and have few or little responsibilities, and face few or no consequences for bad decisions, it only hurts them down the road.
This sums up my generation and the ones to follow. I'm only 23, but I can see how things are different from "back in the day."
I don't think you had to clarify that this post wasn't about bewbz. Seeing you as the OP made that clear.
Good point . . . I guess any post from me will automatically be marked as NOT nsfw / nsfh.
But I do like Boobies. Here's a picture to prove it:
the assembled members of the blogosphere would like to know which type of boobies you prefer: large or small. For ease of comparison I provide a photo of a large boobie and a small boobie for your perusal.
I like . . . boobies of all kinds. I don't discriminate. However, if I had to choose:
- I don't like fake boobies. No rubber duckies for me.
- I like healthy boobies.
- I don't like huge boobies.
- I don't like tiny boobies.
- I like boobies that are right in the middle (just right?)
Remove the hard drive and battery and hide the power cord. I bet he buys her another one within a month. Jerk.
He will. I see this same issue with my nephew and sister.
I have recommended to my sister that if she erased my nephew's saved memory from his XBOX/Playstations just once she might see some good.
Destroying the object and then the eventual give in will just make the child worse as they will receive a shiny new object.
First off, I would like to have it noted that none of us personally know any of the people associated with the situation. We are simply basing our opinions of the parties involved on what they have said about each other. That being said, although I believe the sentiment behind the father's actions was probably justified, it by no means warranted such an overdramatic act to prove his point. This will only widen the chasm between father and daughter, and likely end up causing more problems than it solved. What he should have done was simply used his video to ask the opinions of others regarding his daughter's actions, much like you have done here. That would have been much more effective than the use of weaponry. Just my opinion though...
Shouldn't have used a firearm but the message is on point.
I think a office space style smashing of laptop would have been more widely accepted.
Under 21, agree with the people who say he's a nut. Specifically the wasteful and "if you have to use a gun you've lose tour kid already" points.
And on a semi-related social networking issue that deals with college football, a top Oklahoma recruiter and assitant coach potentially committed minor NCAA violations by tweeting to some recruits, telling them off their scholy offers and giving them his cell number to call him. Apparently you can send an unsigned recruit a private message, but tweeting at them is a potential violation.
This stuck out to me for two reasons. One is how much recruiting has changed, and how the role social networking is playing in this, sort of like the parenting issues in the OP.
The second is how I related this to coach Hoke. After just reading the story posted on the front page of Hoke offering Dawson in person a scholy and then him jumping up and down and screaming after he committed, to a coach tweeting a kid's offer, makes me appreciate Hoke that much more.
Yup. PMs on Facebook and such are considered "email" and are unlimited. Public things like tweets and posting on the wall are off limits. I only know this because Mike London at UVA got turned in by compliance for posting on a kid's wall instead of private message. They gave us a minor violation and took away his Facebook for a week. If he does it again they'll shoot his laptop.
Over 21. Disciplining your child in a public forum is not the way to go. He should have made her take the post down and then grounded her. I also agree with some of the above comments about donating the laptop but when you're that angry, which this guy was, all reason goes out the window and emotions prevail. I used to be a spoiled kid and treated my parents very poorly and the only thing that made that go away was time and being on my own and realizing how much they really did for me.
Everyone is focusing way to much on the gun (as usual in America).
Both kid and parent seem to be drama queens but I do find it funny that he used the same platform to bash her as A. smart thing to do considering most (older) parents can hardly link to a picture and B. hypocritcal of him as well..its airing your dirty laundry again.
Instead of shooting the laptop he should have went with the giving to random person on the street route (filming this of course) but hey I've shot the shit out of an old cellphone I had (FU Kyocera!! and I did this as a two fold excuse to take my anger out on a crappy phone and to see how well it would survive a .22 round as inquring minds are want to do) so whatever he used what was at his disposal and is no different than smashing it with a hammer.
For the record I'm (almost) 26.
I think it's pretty clear he is alienating his daughter through public retaliation. He's right to be upset about what she did. Still, I thought he was kind of a psycho from the beginning. Then when he pulled out the gun I just started laughing.
"family resource management" degree he undoubtably received? Maybe he skipped that day and relied on TP to take notes for him.
/bringing it back on topic (hating Ohio)
While the gun was probably a bit excessive, I kind of agree with the father.
I'm sorry, but kids these days need to be put in their place. I realize it is not the 1950's or 1960's or whatever time period anymore, but parents are big softies for discipline now and it shows. While the daughter being upset with her parents is typical, it's more or so the attitudes they take with other authority figures that is bothersome. Trust me, as a teacher these kids have no respect for anyone but themselves and their peers, and many of their parents just let it go.
As to it being "wrong" for the dad to take it to a public forum, I think that's horse manure. The girl needs to learn that if she's going to go public with something so personal, that it can go the other way too. And that goes for anything, not just family disputes. For her to think it's ok to post anything on facebook and see no retribution is just letting her go down the wrong road.
I know that's not popular opinion here, but I guess hater's gonna hate :)
You sound exactly like a teacher that I had last year...
And I think it was a good idea.
You can lose the attention of your kid and not even be a bad parent (my aunt and uncle had this happen for example).
If things aren't working, sometimes you just have to do something way over-the-top and see if it finally gets that person's attention. An example in sports would be Iowa's coach slamming his chair into the ground.
He posted on facebook that his idea worked and that his daughter has responded well to what he did. So even if you still think he is a nut, it worked.
In my personal opinion guns and violence are silly unless used for fun/hobby. Hunting, fishing, boxing, MMA, etc. are the only reasons for guns/violence. Even in those cases I don't take part, but I will never be comfortable with anyone taking away something someone loves (ie. the hobby).
Shooting a computer to teach a lesson is a fail.
made a terrible mistake. I do not know any of his history, just the 9 or so minutes from the video. What this father did was abusive. Was his daughter being a typical 15 year old bitchy girl? Apparently. Did she deserve to have punishment sent her way? Most likely. Does the father have the right to dole out punishment based upon his daughter's blatant disrespect of him and his rules? Absolutely. Is it ever acceptable to use a firearm in a disciplinary matter? No. The implication is there, for all of impressionable America to see, that guns can be used for disciplinary measures. That should never be an accepted line of thinking in culture throughout the world. I predict within the year, a copy cat of sorts will shoot their child trying to re-create a form of this video.
I would like to make it clear that I am a gun owner, and a RESPONSIBLE gun rights advocate. I am over 21 years old but not a parent.
Your avatar and user name affect your response. I can't help but hear Hank's voice when I read your post. Not that that's a bad thing.
I am over 21 and I agree that both are in the wrong here, as in my opinion the correct way to handle it would have been to discuss these types of grievances (sp?) behind closed doors. My Dad always used to say that you praise in public and discipline in private, and I believe that's a good way to go about it. A lesson can be taught and learned without needing to shout, use violence, or punish severely.
However, I think had he even tossed the computer in the trash or even hit it with a hammer, the reaction would not have been as bad as him using a gun. While I don't agree with his tactics, I understand why he did it as I have grown up with guns all my life. My dad did the same thing to some of my stuff actually, got the 16 gauge out and blasted away at a couple of playboys he found under my bed. For us, guns were tools and were used as such, even sometimes for a satirical demonstration such as this.
I see why he used the gun, and I really think he should probably have thought about the broad reach of his audience. Show that clip in certain locations, and you will get a bunch of laughing and back slapping for a job well done. Show it in a different area, and you have the cops on the way.
In the end however, I could definitely see where his daughter got her attitude from. I personally would have made mine work for the money to install the upgrades on the laptop instead of giving them to her, would have made her appreciate the whole thing more anyway.
He's a good man. I don't think he should have shot the laptop though, probably take it for a few months to teach a lesson.
It was great. More parents need to discipline their children.
I have a feeling all those offended are the same people who think timeouts work...
I think spanking her with a wooden
paddle that has holes drillled through it to make it more aero-dynamic would have been more effective. Just kidding, but school teachers in TX spank their students with wooden paddles. My brother was spanked with a paddle for chewing gum in class when he was a sophomore. Luckilly for me I had already graduated before moving to TX. I thought it was a good video, but he didn't need to shoot the computer to make his point. If that's the way he wants to send his message then so be it. It's better than doing nothing or hitting her.
Im sure the matter has been exhausted so far, but heres my two cents:
I teach high school kids and the increasing attachment between kid and computer is problematic. I asked my students if they've ever tried turning their phone off for a weekend... a day... even an hour. They were shocked at the proposal and said they couldn't go a few minutes without using one of the social media sites. (I did get a few of them whom had traveled abroad to admit that going a few days without a phone was refreshing)
The dad lacked sublety, but I, figuratively-speaking, wish I could destroy the phones and computers of all my students.
I have noticed the same thing with some of my teenage nephews and nieces. I know that I use a computer and phone more than i should, but they are just silly how dependant they are with it. I tried to make them turn off their devices as well, and they about shit themselves with fear!
I sometimes like to detach from the electronic world. I generally leave my phone on silent on the weekends, try and only look at it once or twice the entire time. Or go on a hike to somewhere that gets zero service. Nice to be away from it sometimes.
I think I understand why/how the daughter learned to deal with problems by posting about them in a public forum for all the world to see. Like father, like daughter I guess. Sounds like both of them need to learn how to communicate privately instead of passive-aggressively posting things online. But the father, at his age, should really know better. It's kind of scary.
BTW, I'm over 21, no kids, but I've volunteered with kids a lot. One thing I've learned is that kids really model the behavior of the adults around them. This is a perfect example.
This dude will get one.
I don't think shooting a laptop is the best way of fixing the parent-child relationship. I'm not over 21, but in my opinion, the only thing he accomplished was one-upping his daughter's immature behavior. There are definitely more effective ways of parenting; that's for sure.
She may be immature, but she's got a heckuva role model.
This video was particulary disturbing. It appears that her father is as immature as his daughter. The fact that he's bothered by his daughters emotional rant on facebook and deals with it by publicly humiiating his daughter is grade A bad parenting.
IMO, he should have handeled the situation like a responsibe parent would. He sould have taken the high ground and dealt with the situation in the family.
Could you imagine brady hoke shooting a players laptop on youtube after he discovered that said player was bitching about lack of playing time and our mean coaching staff. Could you even imagine him aknowleding the situation publicly.
Sounds like this dad belongs to the "Les Miles" school of rolemodeling. Throw the kid under the buss and try to look like a bad ass. Sup gunner Kiel.
If this is the way people react to a 12 year old being irresponsible, then people haven't met many 12 year olds. They'(12 year olds) are just learning how to be responsibile and most people learn through experience, which sometimes/often involves failure.
12 year olds refelct the behaviors they see model for them. I'm pretty sure this girl is being taught to shoot objects that cause her problems.... uh oh.
TL:DR I got through the paragraph about how this is not related to Michigan and it is an OT post. Okay cool. Than I started to read bullets about how this topic fits into the OT category. That is where I stopped reading...just get to point next time lol.
Hollow tips are illegal right?
So they'd probably be illegal in Michigan, but not in some other States?
They are legal in Michigan. Go to any store that sells ammo and you will see hollow tips. I think New Jersey is the only state where it is illegal.
Using a gun to is overzealous and juvenile, and destroying a perfectly good laptop that many people would gladly own is wasteful. Why not donate it to a family that could really use it? But, while I disagree with those things, they are minor details in the story. The main issue to me is that he is publicly berating & embarassing her.
Ok, your kid screwed up and is complaining to her friends on facebook about her mean parents. I think we can all agree that this is a bad move on her part, and deserves some sort of punishment because she is acting in an immature way. Call me crazy, but I don't think the right way to teach your daughter how to handle herself properly is to make a revenge video and post it on the internet. To me, doing that is more immature than what the daughter did to begin with, and will also cause more problems. Way to engender love and responsibility, dude. If I was the daughter, this would teach me that when I don't get my way or don't like something someone else said about me, it is perfectly OK to seek revenge and "get someone back". I don't have any kids (I'm in my upper 20s & married) but I know that I definitely do not want to raise my kids teaching them those kinds of values.
As kind of a side note, if you have ever been to any kind of leadership seminar, a lot of times they will tell you that when you are in a position of authority and you need to discipline someone, make sure to never do it publicly. I have worked at several organizations in my life and have seen on multiple occassions my boss rip into coworkers in front of everyone else, and this caused the person being yelled at to hold a permanent grudge against the boss because they basically got clowned in front of everyone. Parenting is one of the biggest positions of authority there is, and this guy just totally clowned his daughter in front of 30 million people - how do you think she's gonna handle it?
Lastly, I would question that guy's love for his daughter, or maybe his treatment of women, if he thinks that kind of behavior is acceptable. He has undoubtedly caused his daughter severe embarassment, heartache, anger, and probably hate, among other things. This goes beyond discipline and into cruelty because of the severely public nature of the "discipline".
I'm over 21, and I'm pro-spanking/grounding/etc.
I'm 25, no kids, and a gun owner.
While I think shooting the laptop is a silly (I would have just sold it) I don't think it's 'wacko'. The kid is a brat and should have her interwebz/computer/life privileges revoked. Kids get away with murder and really don't have any consequences for their actions. Whining/laziness are rampant problems with todays youth. I have a few that work for me, and its shocking to me that an 18 year old doesn't understand that in order to get paid/not fired, they have to actually do work.
While the religious aspects are slightly more complicated, I wish we hadn't gotten away from the Calvinist work ethic. Hard work leads to happiness. Maybe we wouldn't have such a rampant depression problem in this country if people actually expected more than the bare minimum from our young people.
Personally, I like the dad's willingness to take more drastic action when necessary, but I think he got the execution wrong. I think he showed his anger a bit too much and I don't unloading that many rounds was a good idea.
If I were him, I would have kept it short, sweet, and to the point. I probably would not have deemed destroying the laptop necessary either, only taking it away, but since I don't know the full story here, I will assume for the sake of this scenario that drastic action was required. I think a baseball bat and a single, hard swing would have been more appropriate. Sends the message without getting excessive, but if guns are his thing, one shot would have been good enough, and he definitely should have calmed down first.
As far as "violence" goes, I don't think its unreasonable to spank kids who do something to really earn it up until they are teenagers. That's when you have to start relying on taking things away, and I don't think destroying a laptop is out of scope if the situation really warrants it. Like I mentioned before, I think the dad's composure when he made the video was not paticularly good, as I believe he overreacted with much of what he said and with the excessiveness of shooting it multiple times, but hey, if taking it away doesn't drive the point home, maybe destroying it will.
Wasted all of that .45 cal ammunition when a single blast from a shotgun with buck shot would have done the job and made a more impressive hole in the laptop. Missed opportunity there.
I was just waiting for him to close the video with "ROLL DAMN TAHDE"
His daughter is totally going to have sex with a black guy now.
1. why is he spying on his daughter. It shows a lack of trust and confidence on how he raised his daughter
2. Teens nowadays (including me) send naked pics, listen to horrible music, say outrageous things to friends on social sites, do drugs, and get pregnant. But the thing is: parents will never know or have the slightest clue! His spying and IT skills is totally unfair but I cannot blame him. He is saving his daughter from being a Yuri Wright, BUT what she did was minor to some of the other things I previously listed. He didnt have to take it that far. I have plenty of high school aquaintences who have had sex inside of school, made porn via cell phone camera, and under aginly used drugs & liquor in public places. The thing is their parents never knew and that is the way it should stay because even though they aren't responsible enough to know they aren't ready to accept the consequences of those activities, they sure are responsible enough on how to keep it away from adults.
3. I can see if he caught his daughter doing those "vices" i mentioned, or posting it online, then I could be totally fine with him doing this. I just see this as a little extreme
4. I still agree with it. There are way too many Yuri Wrights out here that think what they post wont hurt them, and media & internet is blinding kids. I know plenty of people who posted pictures of themselves with guns or bragging about committing crimes on facebook and month or so later they are in court with a laptop being shown their old posts as evidence for conviction. So this dad is leading a crusade against idiotic posting but geez, atleast she wasnt uploading naked pics
The thing is their parents never knew and that is the way it should stay because even though they aren't responsible enough to know they aren't ready to accept the consequences of those activities, they sure are responsible enough on how to keep it away from adults.
Are you kidding me??
You must be way under 21. That is asinine. You say kids do this stuff all the time - which they do - right after saying parents should trust their kids not to, and not spy on them. Sounds more like parents need to watch their idiot kids 24/7. I really can't reconcile you saying it was OK to shoot the laptop and post the video with everything else you've said.
your opinion is worthless because you have not dealt with a teenage girl.
As someone who used to be a teenage girl (and is now the parent of a pre-teen boy and girl), this guy is frightening. I have seen the future (my son is starting to go down the teen road), but if I ever saw a public video of myself acting AS BADLY AS A TEENAGE GIRL, I would cry.
Dude, rise above the drama. Put the gun away. Listen to your daughter (you probably haven't done a whole lot of meaningful listening), and understand that you are the adult, she is not. Have realistic expectations. Set reasonable boundaries. Take away her laptop. Act reasonably, which will eventually make her realize you are on her side. This will work.
How many times do you "take away the laptop" before you realize it's not working? In this case, it'd happened once already, and possibly more.
The guy is a tool. I really think adding new hardware was an exuse to check out her computer. The fact that he's mad that she's complaining about her parents is asinine. Isn't that what kids are supposed to do?
If anything he may have made his point but he'll probably have a terrible relationship with his daughter the rest of his life. I hope it was worth it....btw I have 3 kids.
The guy is a tool. I really think adding new hardware was an exuse to check out her computer. The fact that he's mad that she's complaining about her parents is asinine. Isn't that what kids are supposed to do?
If anything he may have made his point but he'll probably have a terrible relationship with his daughter the rest of his life. I hope it was worth it....btw I have 3 kids.
I might be in the minority. I mean, I wouldn't have done it, it was a bad idea and all, and I don't think it was ever going to do anything but further alienate his daughter, but I think people are making waaaay too big a deal of this. And the only reason it was ever made into the story it is is because he used an evil, nasty gun. As a self proclaimed gun nut, I'm sensitive to the demonization of firearms; I've had plenty of people look at me sideways when they hear I own my own small armory. He was dumb to destroy a working, useful laptop. But go ahead. Shoot the crap out of your stuff if you want to. (in a safe and legal manner, of course) You should have that right in a free country. But if you really want to teach your daughter a lesson, post a video of yourself wiping her hard drive, spit-shining the thing and donating it to Goodwill.
At least if you're going to pull a 1911 on it and light it up, paint a target on it and get some good practice out of it.
You know what would have been a better punishment? Deleting her facebook account and then wiping her hard drive. Have fun with no pictures and videos of your life.
This parent has real problems. Parents shouldn't smoke in front of their kids, it sets a bad example. Then to post it on facebook as an example for all her friends? That's like giving them each a pack and saying it's cool.
I think the video was in North Carolina and looking at some other cues from the video I'm willing to bet that smoking isn't the "Omigod, end of the world!" act in his circles as it would be at a University gathering.
Just turned in on the 9th of this month actually...
And the dad that let her out into the world is garbage.
Oh, and as to my age...
Boys at least use fake guns as toys and talk about killing and shooting their friends all the time. I think people are making way too big of a deal over the fact that he used a gun. And this is coming from someone who's almost 30, has never shot a gun and doesn't care to, and was a vegetarian for 10 years.
I'm over 21. I am the father of an amazing 2 1/2 year old girl and hope to have at least one more child. I own a gun (12 gauge for hunting purposes). I've tried to read all the posts but feel like we are getting distracted by the periphery and losing focus on the core issue, which is my main problem with this video and the ensuing discussion.
The issue is that we as parents need to show our children unconditional love. We often have trouble doing this because we have never been loved unconditionally. We have baggage, past hurts, anger, distractions, work, etc. etc. We learn how to treat people by watching how our parents treat us. The father in this video mentions that he left home in HS and worked two jobs. What happened in his home that prompted this decision? He mentioned a divorce, so what has his daughter been taught about relationships through that process? Our actions will always speak louder to our children than words.
I have a lot of issues in my personality from my childhood. I do things that I don't want to do every day. If I can't identify what those issues are and learn how to deal with them, my daughter will likely have the same issues in her life. I am blessed to have a wife that is willing to help me work through these things and also to help me stay on track with our daughter (she's a social worker, bless her soul). It is a lot of hard work to maintain a vigilance about how you treat your kids and other people.
I could go on all day. I guess that I don't think the video clears anything up in the situation but is a symptom of the problem. I'm afraid that it is too inflammatory in its delivery to really promote open discussion. I'm sorry you had to read this. Please go on with your day.
I think the daughter doesn't owe her father the $130 for the software he bought for her but in actuality never gave to her.
I also think he's a pretty decent shot, but beyond that...
A guy I worked with a long time ago used to say that you never really know what goes on in other people's homes. We've heard about 8 and a half minutes of one guy's side of the story. We only have a small indication of what he has been through, and have not heard from his daughter, wife, or even son. In short, we don't know if this guy is at the very end of a very long rope,or if he is a psycho with a very short fuse, or etc. etc. etc.
I'm 29 years over 21.
While I agree it probably would have been better to have said 'The next time this happens, we will give your laptop to someone who appreciates it', once the ultimatum was made it would be a bad precedent not to follow through with your word.
Growing up with divorced parents and a joint custody environment - I knew how to take advantage of my parents and play them against each other. My grandfather, however, was more of a parent to me than either of them.
He was a drill sergeant in the army, and when he said something he meant it. I recall clearly the three times I had the audacity (or bravery/stupidity/childish arrogance) to challenge and or question him. Each time I regretted it. The worst punishment I ever received was when I thought I would be sneaky and padded my pants with toilet paper when I knew I was going to be spanked.
The result was my obedience, and in restrospect, my great respect for what he taught me.
The father should have thought about his disciplinary methods, but once in place needed to stick to them. Giving the laptop to someone unable to afford one would have had a better end result, but probably not 30M hits either.
And as far as using a gun to make his point, I have no objection. Almost any method of destruction would result in violence. Would people be as opposed had he destroyed it with a bat, taser, or axe?
Seems like both the daughter and father enjoy making public spectacles of themselves and can't or won't communicate effectively directly to each other: they're more into showing off for an audience. And the father seems worse than the daughter. They both seem bullheaded. My advice for parenting
1) Ignore most parenting advice from someone who has only one child--they too often assume every child will react like their child.
2) A second parent or other involved adult can do wonders to help balance each other out and act as a check on overly emotional reactions to the child's behavior
3) As children get older, they really should be allowed greater involvement and freedom in what they do and in their environment (not to say there can't be clear and inviolable boundaries).
4) Carrots and sticks do wonders in teaching children about rights, wrongs, and responsibilities. Some respond better to one than the other.
The situation with the video seems to have the involvement of the mother as well. But, the whole I spent x dollars and x time installing software seems like he did it as a gift. Maybe he did.There's no sense that she even wanted the new software though (maybe she did, but given the father's rant, it seems he would have mentioned that). I have a bullheaded daughter that punishment never worked on, but if she wanted something that cost more than $100 I made her earn it by doing extra duties over a period of weeks, and she thrived on that. I have 3 children, one older than 21. Thankfully our relationships never got to the point as this one. And if it ever did, my wife would have reeled me in before I posted something on youtube. But, before this whole fiasco, I would have tried to compromise on something to let the daughter have at least some say in the household (for example, allow her to decide about making her bed or not and perhaps letting her trade one of the other duties for some other from a list of duties). By the teenage years, children need to start being treated as young adults with at least some give and take. If nothing else, you'll help develop their persuasive and bargaining skills.
I'll predict right now, if Tosh doesn't do it first, that there is going to a meme's worth of copycat videos, 99.999999% by unfunny teenagers, reading fake or real facebook notes.