College Gameday [OPEN Thread] (Note: Michigan feature)

Submitted by Mr. Yost on

A little early for the College Gameday thread, but just saw that they're doing a Michigan "feature" today: Malaise & Blue (a feature after being in Ann Arbor for the week)

If your week wasn't long enough, if you like torture, or if you're just a fan of the entire country trolling us...tune in at 9am.

In the words of Charles Woodson. "Just win."

"The only thing I can tell you about 1997 is this: In the preseason, the media in Chicago ... everybody there is looking for a story," Carr said. "And the story in 1997 was Michigan, the M stood for mediocrity."

Carr recalled his team's first meeting that season, which lasted for hours as the Wolverines grappled with how to exceed those expectations. Finally, Charles Woodson, a player who just months later would cement his legacy as one of the program's finest players, settled things.

...this ain't '97, this ain't a national championship team, and I...like you, am tired of hearing about the glory days. But some things are timeless. JUST WIN. Just win, whether it's 3-0 or 30-0 and this stuff will eventually go away. And for this year, that'll be just like a national championship.

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Danwillhor

September 27th, 2014 at 9:27 AM ^

but it really is a good thing if it helps bring positive change. People worry about recruiting but this class is so small and some kids will stay no matter what that a BIG name hire will get immediate attention. The CFB world and recruits know what Michigan has in regard to resources. The right AD & FB Staff kind of have to try to mess that up. Sadly, one or the other has been sub-par since the early 90s.

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Mr. Yost

September 27th, 2014 at 9:33 AM ^

We had bad publicity when Carr lost to App St.

...we had bad publicity when Rich Rod didn't do jack shit for 3 years.

...we had good publicity when Hoke was hired and we won the Sugar Bowl.

...we have had bad publicity for the last calendar year.

I like good publicity over bad publicity. At some point it's got to stop.

I know what you mean, enough bad publicity will affect change and Hoke and Brandon will be out. But that doesn't mean the next 2 are going to be better. That doesn't mean it's not going to take 3-4 years for the next coach to be better.

I suppose I'd agree with you if you guaranteed me that we'd be elite again in 2 years, but you can't guarantee that anymore than I can guarantee that Hoke will get this turned around this year and next.

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Danwillhor

September 27th, 2014 at 10:30 AM ^

By positive change I'm fully saying that in a "best case" or "what we deserve" scenario/scenario. Heck, even an AD and staff that most fans would love isn't guaranteed success. I'm saying "change for the better" purely in assumption and my opinion that nothing less than winning out allows this entire regime the right to stay (AD to coaching staff, Manning/recruiter types ok if a new staff wants them retained) given the program trend line. I promise nothing and know nothing is promised. Trust me, I feel the pain as well! I feel like I haven't seen Michigan Football since I was a teen. When is it enough? I'm an 80s baby that is a product of the 90s. A true millennial. I remember not even having an ounce of nerves out worry against our rivals. Really! msu? pffttt. osu? We're going to win. Period, point blank and so on. When we did lose it was always on some funky hail mary, one superstar beating us or the twice a year unexplainable Carr led games where we wouldn't even show up fully awake. The talent was there but the energy/gameplan wasn't, ya know? We were good for a couple a year under Carr but other than that we could play with anyone, anywhere. I'm not saying the next guys up can get us back there and more. I'm saying that this situation is now toxic. Unless we win out and the wheels aren't already in motion, Gibb forward as is may hurt us more than change. Unless we win out (not happening) it will be a bigger risk continuing to drive on fumes in heavy traffic than to just pull over and make that walk to a gas station. The walk sucks but we're going dangerously slow on fumes, getting passed by and moving on perpetual hope that we don't completely stall. Might as well pull aside, get some gas and hope you can keep up, catch up and then pass others this time because Hoke may not be the guy be he is right when he says THIS IS MICHIGAN......and Michigan is a very nice car. haha

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Muttley

September 27th, 2014 at 11:56 AM ^

Brandon has committed Michigan to vast expenditures across all sports.  Funded primarily by football (whether directly or indirectly).

Whether UM President Schlissel and the Regents want to deal with it or not, they cannot just fiddle if the athletic department starts to burn millions of dollars due to collapsing football revenues.

$18 bucks a ticket for a Big Ten game is a bigger shot across the bow, IME.

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ShootyDooks

September 27th, 2014 at 9:48 AM ^

Something along the lines of Michael Sam and cocks...what am I saying every sign there has something to do with cocks. And as I'm watching now, I think the guy got kicked out.

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Mr. Yost

September 27th, 2014 at 9:58 AM ^

Gameday is NOTORIOUS for teasing Michigan segments and then showing them at 11:40a after they've done everything else.

It was the lead topic on SportsCenter (when I made this thread), it was the lead topic previewed in the opening segment...and then when they throw up the graphic that tells you what segments are coming up and how long until they're on and the Hoke thing wasn't even on the list of upcoming topics/segments.

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Mr. Yost

September 27th, 2014 at 10:22 AM ^

He's not a great coach, but I want so bad to like that guy. Or better yet, I do like him, I want so bad for him to succeed.

I don't care about clapping or headsets or injuries or any of that stuff. I'll love him like crazy if he'd just fucking win.

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MGO GSP

September 27th, 2014 at 10:25 AM ^

The Michigan program is a complete joke. It is time to clean house in the athletic department and get rid of the coaching staff.

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Cold War

September 27th, 2014 at 10:27 AM ^

Desmond saw no one at practice that acted like he wanted to be great, possible exception being Peppers. No swagger.

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Mr. Yost

September 27th, 2014 at 10:43 AM ^

I think you have to recruit it. It's a personality type. I can see Hoke not recruiting that personality type the way you need to.

We're not an SEC school and we have a coach who believes "THIS IS MICHIGAN" and "THIS IS MICHIGAN" doesn't recruit that personality type. Even though all of it's recent great players had that type of personality.

Woodson had swagger. Edwards had swagger. Hart had swagger. Perry had swagger.

But look at the team around those guys...it wasn't a bunch of that personality. So that's what I was saying below. I think Hoke was trying to overcorrect something, even unintentionally. Now he's got Peppers and the one player on his team with that swagger is a freshman.

Michigan will never get an entire team of that. I don't even think they'll get a QB like that (like FSU with Winston or TAMU with Manziel...), but give me 3-4 players that are going to talk a little shit. Going to come from a place where they bring a toughess to the team that can't be taught.

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MGoCombs

September 27th, 2014 at 11:19 AM ^

I reluctantly disagree. While I don't think you can "coach it," I think I you can create an environment that breeds that way of thinking. I don't know if that's all on the coaches necessarily. Some of that needs to be on the leaders of your team. Some of that needs to be from the general culture of the program. But using the Fab Five example, other players on that team, from a variety of backgrounds, bought into what the stars, the leaders were doing and carried themselves with just as much pride, determination and swagger. I don't think it's all a Hoke thing, but he might be stifling leaders who get it. I really have no idea.


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Mr. Yost

September 27th, 2014 at 11:32 AM ^

...but they didn't have it. I think you also buy into it when it's clearly the best player on your team. See Winston and Manziel.

But Alabama has had teams where that type of personality isn't the best on the team...and that's fine. But in certain situations, when you need a spark, when times are tough, when it's winning time...that kid with that swagger doesn't back down from the moment, doesn't fold, and steps up and makes a big play for them.

I don't think you have to be led by it, but I think it's good to have on the team...just like I think it's good to have some less emtional players, guys who do things the traditional "Michigan way" and lead/play in that manner.

I also think that in the 90s, you still had those kids with the Steele, Renes type toughness...and that could carry you as well. Now, outside of Kovacs, you can recruit those same type of kids...but in 2014, in this soft Twitter era, you don't get that ruggedness which can be just as effective as the kid with the swagger.

We don't have the rugged kid nor do we have the swagger kid. We've got nice guys and that's a big reason why we don't have a personality on this team and we haven't in a long time.

The one team that had a personality was the team that won...and they had as close to "ruggedness" as we've seen since the 90s. They had Kovacs, Martin, Van Bergen, Heininger, etc. Those guys are all throwbacks.

Jake Ryan is the closest thing we have to that on this team. On the ENTIRE team. ONE player.

One rugged player, and two guys with a little swagger/confidence. On a team of 115 guys. That's alarming.

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Gulogulo37

September 27th, 2014 at 11:23 AM ^

Yeah, those comments hurt. Goes back to what Brian said about how this team totally lacks the thing Hoke is always preaching. People got on Rodriguez for swearing at practice and blowing up in games, but it definitely seems Hoke could use some of that.

I remember someone posting an article about why the players love Hoke so much, but the main story it mentioned was how Hoke would wake guys up and jump on them. It's great that he's such a nice guy, but we are talking about a violent sport here.

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Mr. Yost

September 27th, 2014 at 11:39 AM ^

The kid has to have "it"...cussing and swearing at him isn't going to change anything if he doesn't have that "it" deep inside him.

That "dawg."

As I mentioned above, you can be that rugged, tough, rub some dirt on it and play your heart out type player. Or you can be that 80s Miami Hurricane, swagger, I come from nothing, I'm better than you, and I'm going to work harder than you could ever imagine to show the world.

Mix the two and wow, you've got something special. Not from every player on the team...but just a handful of both.

Think about that first team, Molk/Martin/RVB/Kovacs...those guys all could've played in the old school. Those guys are TOUGH, the true meaning of tough. Not the I'm going to walk around with a bloody cut over my nose so I can show everyone how tough I am. I'm talking the throwback. The eats, breathes, sleeps football and  is going to do everything in his ability to get that victory.

Or that Woodson/Perry/Hart type personality that wasn't afraid of ANY moment. Those guys LIVE for the moment. Win or lose they want the ball, they want the last shot, they want the moment. Peppers is that type of personality and that's it (according to Des).

Hoke cussing and swearing at these guys isn't going to change anything. Rich Rod and his staff were filthy mouthed and we sucked. 

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Mr. Yost

September 27th, 2014 at 10:37 AM ^

I've always had this thought that Rich Rod tried so hard to get in these borderline kids that come from "non-Michigan type" backgrounds (you all know what I mean)...you know the Demar Dorsey's and such. The kids that made the old school Michigan fans go "oh my!"

(Note: I'm not talking race)

I thought Hoke tired a little too hard to go get the private school "traditional Michigan" type kid too much to counter the Rich Rod era. And in that, you lose some of that swagger.

I'm stereotyping, there are certainly exceptions...but I'm talking as a whole.

I do think that now that we aren't taking a bunch of borderline admissions type kids, that Hoke (if he's around) can take a few kids with swagger and a different kind of toughness based on their upbringing and bring those kids into a locker room that has an established culture of doing things the right now.

...again, I'm saying as a whole. We've got kids from inner-cities and rough upbringings that Hoke recruited. But Rich Rod brought in or tried to bring in way more. It's part of what got him fired. Everyone wants to be Alabama and they've got a structure and a system and they can bring in some of these kids, no matter if they're black or white or whatever...mix them with Saban's structure and have a perfect blend.

Just my opinion...but I think we're to a point now where we can bring in some kids that have a natural swagger and mix them with the kids Hoke's recruited and get a nice mix.

I wrote all that and it doesn't make any sense...oh well.

 

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Mr. Yost

September 27th, 2014 at 10:50 AM ^

Because Johnny Manziel had plenty of swagger and he's a rich boy.

But I think there's just a certain personality type that is somewhat against the "Michigan way"

It's why some people in Michigan NEVER liked the Fab 5. Even before the scandal. It's why some people in Michigan didn't like Woodson until after he left. Why people don't like Hart or Edwards (both of those guys came from decent backgrounds from what I know).

But it's just that cockiness/confidence combination. And yes, it traditionally comes from a poorer background. Because SEC schools are filled with these kinds of kids that play "up" and play harder and bring a confidence and a swagger to each game. And the best SEC schools match these kids with a good structure and program and they have a program that can't be touched right now.

Of course the kids have to be good and there are more important factors. But in building a personality and a chemistry of a program. I think you're better off getting a little bit of both. There will always be exceptions and more important things...but I do think part of the reason Michigan isn't good is because we don't have that "it" factor on either side of the ball.

We've got some really good kids, just like Hoke says. But outside of Peppers and Dennis Norfleet...I don't see anyone on this team with that "dog" in him. I see a bunch of really good kids that I love, because they're really good kids and they try really hard.

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Danwillhor

September 27th, 2014 at 10:54 AM ^

Larry Foote is/was correct. It's not the rule but also not the exception. It's just the way it is on the whole. I actually think it's life experience. If a kid has basically been fighting for survival/sanity since he could remember that kid will generally have certain traits that a kid that was tossed keys to a new car at 15 would. GENERALLY. Again, not the rule but a fact of life in most cases. In my opinion, of course.

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bighouse22

September 27th, 2014 at 10:41 AM ^

Corso is crazy if he thinks this team will be luck to win four games.  If Michigan spent the entire game running the ball and never threw the ball again they should beat Minnesota, Rutgers, Maryland and Indiana.  As frustrated that I have been with this team losing any of those four games would be another level of incompetence that is beyond what I can imagine.

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Cold War

September 27th, 2014 at 10:30 AM ^

Brady didn't look great, and I didn't really expect him to. Not a smooth talker or great at handling a tough one on one.

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bdsisme

September 27th, 2014 at 10:42 AM ^

Herb has to follow every single college football team, and his audience is the masses.  He can't sit up there on Gameday and talk minutiae that 90% of the country isn't familiar with. He gave a good 30-second overview of why Michigan fans hate DB.

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