He is gone. Let it go.
Coach Rodriguez on "The Herd", ESPN radio today
But you know some Michigan supporters will talk about him atleast til he gets another job.
He's been pretty classy so far while expressing frustration. He's earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to media appearances.
I disagree. For "classy" is how Coach Moeller has never said a negative word, after having had his team yanked from him. Classy is how Bump Elliott never cried and complained and made excuses after having his team taken away from him. RR needs to grow up.
We get it. You hate Rich Rod. But he's done an admirable job of not admonishing the program, fanbase and Dave Brandon when he in all likelihood has valid reasons to.
Degrading talent and saying there is a dearth of talent are two different things. When did he degrade the previous coaches? And stating that Brandon didn't necessarily give him a fair shake, well, that seems to be fairly reasonable under the circumstances.
And to the poster a few above, I think Moeller helped with having that team yanked from him...
Never read anything about him taking a shot at the previous coaches.
Personally, while I was in favor of firing RR, I do believe that overall, he has handled himself with class throughout this entire process. He has not taken any DIRECT shorts at the team, the university or even Brandon.
That said, I think that there have been a few comments that RR has made that, while I think "degrade" the team may be too strong, certainly made me cringe. For example, when he said that even Vince Lombardi couldn't do much with this defense. To me, that was basically a statement that no matter what, this defense wasn't going to get it done. Talk about undercutting your players' confidence. The far better response would have been, "Look, the defense hasn't performed as well as we would all like, but they are young, and as young kids, they are improving every day. I think that this defense has the potential to be very good, and as coaches, we are working to get them there."
Another comment that I didn't like was the "hopefully we will find a kicker on the way to the Gator Bowl" along with his repeated public statements that they were trying to bring in walk-ons for the spot. We all know that the kicking game sucked. Really sucked. But, by publicly saying that, essentially, "these kickers suck and if I could play someone else, I would," how do you build these guys up?
On the other hand, RR's recent comments about the "process," don't bother me at all. He didn't go out of his way to trash DB - he responded to questions and candidly stated that the process employed by DB put him, his team, his coaches and even recruits in a crappy spot. Guess what? It did. If DB was going to hire Hoke - a move that totally support - he could have done that on December 1, and everyone would have been better off. On December 1, in my view, it was pretty obvious that RR had to go, and that there was no real way that he could credibly stay, so DB DID put him in a crappy spot. These comments don't bother me at all.
mind. I was generally a fan, and thought that the firing was a huge mistake. But the two comments you examine were unfortunate.
Keep it up and you won't be able to post anymore. Good riddance.
Haha Raider....I got a chuckle out of that one
If we can't come to the conclusion that there is little talent on the defense then we have to abandon what has driven this board for 3 years, "The Decimated Defense." I don't see why he wouldn't have a bad opinion on Dave Brandon, Brandon held him in limbo during the entire coaching search period of November/December which prevented him from getting a job this coming year, all in order to massively scale down his buyout.
Yes, you have a good understanding of the last 3 years for a guy that seems to have showed up 2 weeks ago.
I never saw a single thing writen here that would indicate that anyone expected a NC before 2011. And even those expectations were scaled back more recently.
So you are complaining about the board being pro RR and that was your user name? And, secondly, at what point was that name "appropriate" to begin with?
has been duly noted.
Dissenting opinion? Ahhhhh, get away from me. I can't handle opinions that differ from mine. Grow up Peter Pan, Count Chocula.
I thought you couldn't handle keeping your clothes on in public
Way to live in the past and hold grudges. The conversation is about how classy Coach Rodriguez has been over the firing process. Rodriguez has had many chances to take a shot at the university and Dave Brandon, but has made only nice, neutral comments about the new coach, the players, and the school. As a summary, he has:
1) Wished the team, the players, and the next coach well in the future.
2) Stated everyone (being him, his coaching staff, the players, and the new coaching staff) was worse off than they would be had Dave Brandon let Rodriguez go sooner. Even you should agree with this (save the $1.5 million that was saved, but that seems miniscule).
3) Mentioned that it's frustrating when it seemed like the worst was behind the team, feeling like the team was ready to make a turnaround.
4) (where Rich Rodriguez overstepped his bounds in a single incident) Questioned Dave Brandon's experience leading an athletic department.
Aside from 4, when has he not been classy after being let go?
He suggested you are not in reality because you said "Rich Rodriguez is not being classy towards the University after his firing." You then went on to suggest that, because he thought you were once not in reality because his stance of "Rich Rodriguez will not get fired" turned out to be false, it is he that is not in reality now instead of you. That's an apples-to-oranges comparison, since it's possible that he was wrong before but right now. You should thank me for allowing you the chance to explain your position rather than grouping me with him; in "reality," I'm sure I'm not the only poster that does not appreciate your current wave of attacking posters that disagree with you.
Take, for instance right now. You believe Rich Rodriguez is not being classy because he 1) stated he tried to explain how he ran the program to Dave Brandon with the belief that he knows more football than Brandon, 2) stated Brandon doesn't have experience, 3) complained that he was fired after the bowl game when he would have also complained about being fired before the bowl game, and 4) speaks in the 3rd person. I'll do this high-school debate style to try to show you that it is possible that neither of us are completely wrong, and a good way to earn some positive street cred on MGoBlog is by giving people the benefit of the doubt (this post may get to tl;dr length):
Off 1: It is an expectation that, in a macromanaging position that Dave Brandon has, Brandon probably doesn't know as much about football as the coach he is in charge of. That would only be natural for someone in charge of every sport the athletic department outputs to not know as many X's and O's behind football as the head coach that is underneath them. So is it unreasonable for a head coach to say it in public after getting fired by them? Probably not, especially given that the football that Brandon does know is certainly drastically different than the football that Rodriguez teaches. Should Rodriguez have said it? You clearly don't think so, but I don't see it as it being slanderous in any way. I could say "The President knows less about Nuclear Engineering than I do" with a strong level of confidence and not have secret service men looking for me; in fact, politicians often employ nuclear engineers like me to educate them as to how everything works.
Off 2: I gave you this point when I said Rodriguez overstepped his bounds by questioning his experience. So... you forgot to mention that I mentioned what you mentioned that I didn't mention. In any case, I don't view is as incriminating as you do because he will be given many more chances to screw up again, and I don't think he'll stand behind this point aside from some waffling "He hasn't been an AD for very long, so what I said was true." If he does, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong, FWIW.
Off 3: This point ignores the fact that Rich Rodriguez mentions that the timing of his firing affects everybody negatively, not just him. So he has already demonstrated that his interests are not entirely for himself. Thus, I don't think he would complain as much about getting fired before the bowl game than getting fired after. For himself it's possible, but this shouldn't be held against him because it didn't happen.
Off 4: I really wish I knew all the psychological details surrounding this behavioral phenomenon. The best thing I could find is that it links a person with narcissism, which given the descriptions of a narcissist don't seem to describe Rich Rodriguez. Therefore, I give Rodriguez the benefit of the doubt on this. Maybe it's a West Virginia thing.
The point that I'm trying to make is that, given the same set of facts that lead you to conclude Rodriguez is being unclassy, I don't see things the same way. Does that make me an RR Loyalist and a dahblue hater? No, it makes me human. I don't want to get into an MGoBubble discussion with you regarding what happened during RR's tenure, since that's in the past. Rather, you need to understand why you're being referenced negatively by more and more users without lashing out at them. We can agree to disagree, but we don't have to assume the other user's an idiot in the process; let the MGoCommunity decide that for themselves.
Thought there was good stuff in it though... *shrug*
There was plenty of talent on the defense especially in his first year. The front 7 was not filled with young players. It wasn't the back end that was being bulldozed by Wisconsin running the same play over and over again.
Prove that he said such things. Every interview that he has done since he has left has been linked here, and he as at most took a jab at Brandon for letting it drag out, and gave his opinion that he needed another year. I fail to see where he trashed the kids on the team and the previous coaches in any interview since he has been fired.
The converse of your last statement is also true. The end of people trashing Rodriguez is a long-anticipated one for this MGoMember. Its time to move on. The longer this tired discussion goes on, the more the Board loses its luster.
You really do put the douche in the bag, you know?
What valid reasons does the guy have to bash UM? They gave him unlimited resources to work with and $2.5m per year of personal $$, all for turning in the worst three seasons in the history of this program. His teams were falling farther behind their Big 10 rivals and after 3 years of terrible performances, grumbling alumni, and creating a horrible public perception of this program, he was given $1.5m to leave.
And we get it, you probably think he had nothing to work with....but there have been a lot of coaches who stepped into programs, which weren't full of players recruited during years involving Rose Bowl trips, who didn't proceed to suck miserably.
(relatively for Moeller, he left due to his actions)
Rich has been extremely classy. He could have lashed out in all kinds of ways but has taken the high road. He donated all of his gear, he said he was "disappointed" that he couldn't keep working for a great institution.
You've obviously never fired someone or been fired and had to handle it. Most firings don't go this well.
Agreed I got fired and still had to work closely with my old organization and I screwed them over every chance I got(not saying I'm proud of it). Until I see true firebomb's get thrown I'll stick with classy bit expressing frustration.
Michigania, you are a worthy successor to Great Molk, Rah Glue, and the other RichRod haters on this board. You wrote:
"Coach Moeller has never said a negative word, after having had his team yanked from him. Classy is how Bump Elliott never cried and complained and made excuses after having his team taken away from him."
Oh! Do you believe that Elliot, Moeller, and RichRod were treated similarly while coaching the team? Do you? Really?
Moeller and RRod left on very very different circumstances. RRod didn't perform on the field at the level Michigan required, and can at least make the argument that one more year would have shown his masterpiece. Moeller's leaving was from off the field incidents, and discussing anything controversial about the program would always lead back to that embarassing personal behavior. Bump also had a much clearer record of failure when he was pushed out the door. While I think RRod leaving was probably the best thing for the program now, his record puts him right on the borderline for justifiying a truncated 3 year tenure and I don't really begrudge the guy from politely saying he thinks another year would have made a difference.
Moeller also had a very vested interest in keeping Bo as a close personal friend. To say that Moeller and RR would have had the same motivations to talk or keep quiet is just garbage. Moeller didn't want to upset Bo, Bo would be upset is Moeller talked badly about Michigan.
Not saying that Moeller is a calculating jerk, but it would be against his self interest to talk badly about the university. Also, Michigan was in great shape in the early 90's and fielding top 15 teams. The program wasn't just sitting there with a target on its back.
RR has no more ties here beyond current players and is looking for a job elsewhere.
From the NYT When Moeller was arrested and taken to the Oakland County Jail, officials there had him taken to Providence Hospital, saying they feared alcohol poisoning. Yesterday, the police released a tape they said they made at the hospital. On the tape, Moeller said: "I don't go out to get drunk. My wife was with me. And all of a sudden, this big thing breaks out. This isn't the intent. . . . No, I don't want any mercy. I don't want that. You won't going to let me go? I understand why you can't let me go. And I understand. . . . Do you know how embarrassing this is? . . . I want to keep this . . . thing from my kids. . . . I don't want my kids to see me that way." EDIT: Weird Formatting...
Yeah, how dare RR make public appearances where people might ask him about his last job.
The bridges were burned when he was fired. There will be no returning to Michigan for RR ever in any capacity.
Saying that the team was on the verge of something great [if only I had been given another year like all coaches that show progress should] come across as making an excuse?
I don't think anything he has said thus far would impact future jobs
Given that the guy feels he wasn't treated very fairly with the timing of his firing, I think he's doing a pretty good job of not burning bridges. He could be taking an awful lot of self-serving swipes at Michigan and he isn't.
And compare that to what Brandon did when he announced Hoke -- trumpeting that he would "not need a map of Ann Arbor" and already knew the Victors. How much more blatant could Brandon be in his message -- you've had to deal with an outsider, he made you uncomfortable, don't worry, I've brought back someone who will make you feel safe and secure, like Lloyd did.
I was honestly embarrassed when Brandon said that.
We cut ties with the guy, until he starts trying to drag us through the mud let's just remember the good times we had in his three years and wish him luck at his next job.
Seeing Denard become an NCAA record holder after being considered a long term project out of high school did nothing for you?
UCONN wasn't fun? Players rushing the field after a 67-65 OT win didn't have you feeling anything? And obviously the ND games like you mentioned.
Absolutely agree. That's why RR is no longer the coach here. Doesn't mean we all have to be a dick to the guy, that was my point.
comeback over Wiscy in '08
pasting Minnesota in '08
3OT W against IL
Denard (B1G OPOY, NCAA record setter)
Pasting the Big East Champ in the opener
Great Work with Mott
Stealing Recruits from Purdue
So by your logic, M should have a Heisman Trohpy winner every 4 years. just so all alums can say they went to school when X won the Heisman? You do realize that between Harmon and Desmond, there wer almost 50 years, correct. We have also won 1 (one) MNC in the last 60+ years. The Last time Michigan won the big ten was 2004, so Lloyd had 3 seasons in a row w/o a B10 championship as well.
It is blatantly evident that you are aggrandizing your time as a student, and expecting every year to live up to that "memory" you have of it. I'm sorry to say, but it will never happen.
I'm working on the sequel.
Many of your good times are simply MGoBlog memes.
You're a tool.
perhaps he can coach your new favorite team - the Bolivia Bolivians
former Michigan coach Rich Rodriguez 12:15 p.m.
I wonder when Mitch Albom's book about Rich Rod's three years in Ann Arbor is due for release? It guess it's going to be called "Maize and Bloopers! Why Rich Rodriguez's Tenure at Michigan Was Doomed from the Start." I heard there's lots of juicy stuff in there about how Rodriguez never got to "finish the job" because of "factions" that were in place before he ever arrived. There will be new information about "shredgate" and "swear-o-rama." Also we'll find out the real reason why Justin Boren left for Michigan's archrival school in Ohio. Hint: it has something to do with "family values."
Isn't John Bacon supposed to have been doing research for a book during the 2007-2010 RR period that is going to come out soon?
Googled it for you. It is Bacon and it's due out in the fall. The title is "Third and Long: Three Seasons with Rich Rodriguez and the Michigan Wolverines."
Heard him discuss it on WTKA, and it sounds as though he had good access to the program for the 3 year RR tenure.
It sounds like a really interesting read, but also potentially excruciating.
I hope there is a chapter about Michigan's fan base and i hope Bacon was able to get a honest answer from RR and his opinion of the fan base.
I can almost guarantee that the first words out of Cowherd's mouth after "hello" will be to bash Michigan's alumni and fanbase for not giving Rodriguez enough time. He's made it abundantly clear in the past, when things started to go down hill, that Michigan would overreact and fire Rodriguez with good times right around the corner (i.e. we wouldn't be patient enough).
Yeah, but there's a difference between patience with justification and patience without it. One's smart the other is foolish and there's a compelling argument that there was little justification for patience in this case.
Yea, he said before the season started, that given the time, RR would have us a machine. He also said, toward the end of the season, that RR needed to be let go.
"burning his bridges" and "speaking negatively" and "making excuses" about his time at Michigan. All of the clips/quotes I've seen/read have been nothing short of classy on his part. The only twinge of bitterness one can detect, if possible, is when he said that he regretted not being able to finish what he started here.
And even if he did "go in" on Dave Brandon and Michigan football, it wouldn't prevent him from getting another high-profile job. Rich Rod could make a diss record about Michigan today and would still land on his feet somewhere. A good coach is a good coach, and (allegedly) tarnishing/disparaging the Michigan name wouldn't prevent another AD from hiring him. Hell, some AD's would hire him and encourage him to talk more trash about Michigan. We're not universally beloved, people.
I find it funny that you think anything RichRod has said in interviews is going to prevent or even have any bearing whatsoever on an AD's decision to hire him. Do you realize how fucking dumb that sounds after the circumstances around Michigan hiring him? But you're right, with all the national attention RichRod is getting because of his bashing of Michigan and Brandon....oh wait, no one has even mentioned it other than the RR haters from this board.
It would be nice to see RR accept some of the responsibility for what went wrong instead of trying to come off like he was the victim. Seems like nothing is ever his fault. Everything bad happened to him was someone else's doing. Just go away RR, no one wants to hear it from you here. In three years I never heard him say, "Thats my fault" or "that's my responsibility". You know what Carr did after Oregon came in and pasted us? He stood up at the podium and said that the team wasn't ready to play, the team wasn't up for the game, and that it was ON HIM. He took responsibility for that game. That's why Carr had, and has, the respect of people inside UM and across the the country. RR should have taken notes on how to be a stand up guy.
If only you knew all the mean things that have been said about you on this site, Mr. May.
so you signed up just to make that brilliant point?
I'm just glad that this self-serving moron is gone. Let's stop talking about him. Let him go ruin some other school's program. He is a scheme guy. Never was a leader of men. Never will be.
Let's stop talking about him.
You are the one who signed up for this message board and used your first two posts to talk about Rich Rodriguez. That's neat.
Why do you feel the need to trash RR in such a way? Why call him a "self serving moron." Did he ever call you such names? What has he done to you personally that you harbor such venom towards the man.
Look, it is obvious that you believe that our program is better off going in a different direction. I personally agree with you. I don't think that another year of RR would have been productive, and I don't think that he did a good job while he was here.
But, thinking that RR wasn't a great fit for us (or even thinking that he is a crappy coach) is different than leveling personal attacks on the man. You can think that someone is not a good fit or good coach without attacking their person. I am sure that you have done jobs where you have not succeeded as you would like - did people trash you, calling you a bad person, a moron, a self-serving person?
"It would be nice to see RR accept some of the responsibility for what went wrong instead of trying to come off like he was the victim."
"Just go away RR, no one wants to hear it from you here."
Which is it? Just looking for clarification.
I find it totally rediculous that mmay here has brought up something that is a valid point people are bashing him for it. This small legion of Rich Rod loyalists, seemingly only found on this website, will band together to support anything and everything he does/says no matter what.
I don't think my (or anyone who posted a similar) view is "rediculous". People here don't get negged or hassled for making good points about RR's shortcomings. Posts saying that he both needed to hold himself accountable to Michigan fans and saying that he wants RR to leave him alone do.
I won't support RR if he comes out and says "My time here sucked I hate that place, if I could go coach at OSU I would." But so far he hasn't said anything resemblng that, and I challenge you to find evidence to the contrary. There is no evidence to back up your point or mmay's.
I'm really not that new. I've been a reader for over a year and signed up in the middle of the season and have been commenting daily since. There are a lot of people with big point totals who are not rabid RR supporters.
The negging doesn't commence when someone points out that the tackling isn't technically sound, it usually gets nuts when people say things like "the spread offense is an embarrassment to the school" like one poster after the Gator Bowl.
The general feeling around here these days, at least among the "regulars" seems to be that everyone would have loved RR to have worked out, it'd be for the best if he did but now he's gone. Maybe throw in a little animosity towards DB for the way he fired RR and a little skepticism of Hoke, but overall I feel like the blog has swung into a fairly pro-Hoke atmosphere.
This is not correct....you have never made fair points about the shortcomings of RichRod.
Just last month you questioned whether RichRod "got" our rivalries because he went 0-6 against MSU and OSU. Yeah, you are always making fair points.
The blog is simple: make reasoned, well-supported statements, cut out the vitriol and personal attacks, and you'll be fine. Be an incendiary commenter and fill your posts with invective and sarcasm, and those in the "middle" are pushed to the other side of the debate by default, discount you as a messenger of your message, and are less likely to view your subsequent comments without bias. I, for one, have no problem with those who point out their issues with RR's tenure and do so in a rational way. Likewise for the other side. However, when people communicate they're ideas in the way you seem to regularly, no matter what side their on, well, then the negs come in waves.
I wonder about a guy who has been clear about his opposition to Coach Rodriguez before his firing posting this as a new thread which predictably turns into an argument about the past between supporters and non-supporters of Coach Rodriguez.
Of course, you were just putting it out there so people knew...
Not going to get into whether Rich has been "classy" or not since leaving, but I will say this. Rich never took accountability and responsibility. The message was always, "I drew up the perfect plays and we just didn't execute." You won't hear that from Hoke. Another difference - Rich harped on "making progress." Hoke said if we don't win the Big Ten THIS YEAR we've failed. He understands the expectations at Michigan, regardless of who's on the roster.
Of the 39 comments currently in this thread, this is the first VALID criticism of have heard of RR's public comments.
I was continually frustrated by RR's "we just didn't execute well" comments. Yeah, Rich, we know, every time we lose the team didn't execute well. Why does that keep happening?"
I, too, was frustrated by the "we are close" and "we will improve, but the process isn't going as fast as we would like" comments.
I think that part of what doomed RR was his failure to really appreciate the expectations at Michigan. None of his prior stops came with such massive - if unrealistic - expectations, so I do not blame him for this.
Execution comes down to repetition and experience.
Every year we had a new, first-year starting quarterback.
in 2009 and 2010 we had young defenses that made a lot of mistakes.
In 2010, especially, when the defense just looked lost, we had a ton of young players who were not ready to play, due to the mass exodus and injuries (starting with Warren and finishing with Floyd.)
Even things like missed field goals and fumbles...what do you want a coach to do? Honestly, if you recruit a guy, who is an All-American (Gibbons), you expect him to make a 27 yard field goal. If you're a D1 recruit - fuck it, any level of college skill position player - you should already know how to hold onto the ball. This would be the equivalent of a high school student graduating and attending a university and being unable to read at a 9th grade level.
We did not have the experience to run an effective team last year and we still won 7 games. Add a year of experience....I liked our chances of improving.
Do you want to name for me all the FCS teams that employ a coach specifically for special teams? I'll give you a hint....you can count them on 1 hand.
Hiring a ST coach when 2 years ago you had arguably the best special teams units in the B10 and last year you were middle of the pack isn't ingenious. But go on, tell me how the ST coach would have made our kickers accurate
This is dumb. Do you know what Mike Tomlin said at halfiime of the Super Bowl? He said that the Steelers weren't executing in the first half and had to come out and play better. Izzo after we beat them said that UM executed better. In addition, everyone here was harping after every press conference after a loss about how they were sick of hearing the coaches say that they needed to prepare the kids better. You can fairly criticize that maybe RR wasn't the most tactful when he first came here in discussing the roster, but to say he never claimed responsiibility is dumb.
This is what we get when people just repeat dumb shit that they hear and not actually do any research. If people actually listened to entire press conferences, they would hear RichRod take plenty of blame. But people don't do that. They hear his "coachspeak" (which every coach in America uses) and get outraged because they think somehow this means RR is blaming everyone but himself. It's fucking "ridiculous." The only reason this is even an issue is because of a blind hatred for everything RR without any actual evidence other than "look, he blamed zoltan for a fake punt gone wrong that he clearly should have punted.....RR is an excuse maker."
Typically, he'd say something like "We didn't execute, our special teams were better in practice, we've got a lot of holes, and we all need to do better, including the coaches..."
That's not really taking responsibility. Taking responsibility is "Yeah, we've got some hurdles. And everyone needs to do better. Ultimately, though, I'm the head coach. It's my responsibility. So I'm the guy you should be blaming."
That's what Bo and Lloyd would usually say. That's what Tressel says. It's what a coach ought to say. Sure, sometimes they strategically called the O or the D out. Mostly, though, the HC took responsibility.
Does that make Hoke a liar or not responsible according to your logic?
BTW- Rich AND the team talked about winning the B10 all the time just like every coach in the conference did/does... Winning the conference is "coach speak" that they all use.
It wouldn't make him a liar or not responsible. Hoke just said it would be his failure.
That, and the classic "we'll have to look at the tape" paired with "that NEVER happened in practice, so I don't know..."
Week after week after week after week.
Really? I like Coach Hoke, but he's just as capable of dodging accountability and responsibility as RR. In this post game interview he blames a loss on poor execution, poor tackling, the refs making a questionable call on a fumble, and perhaps even a little bit of injury to key players.
Hoke would step in front of a speeding freight train to protect the image of the Michigan football program.
From here on out, he will UNDOUBTEDLY say and do all the right things.
And here's one from Lloyd after we got our asses handed to us by Wisconsin where he talks about bad calls and youth and mistakes. If this were RR the haters would be talking about "excuses" and "ZOMG RR is throwing players under the bus."
I would like you to provide an example of RichRod doing this after every game.
Is alright in my book. It just didn't work out. Unfortunately, that happens sometimes. Now, colin cowherd on the other hand, is a professional shitbag.
What do you have against shitbags?
Colin cowherd is a flaming shitbag on my door step. I got serious beef with that kind...
with the title of "colin cowherd = shitbag. PLEASE!!!
We don't have to call him "Coach" Rodriguez anymore. Yes, he is a football coach, but he's not our football coach.
Coach is a term of respect for the man. He was our coach and still is a coach. Calling him "coach" just shows respect for what he has done. Not very many people get to coach at the level he has, he has earned that designation.
Suit yourself. Just my opinion.
People can refer to RR as "coach" whenever they want. You can call him whatever you want; it's sorta how things are done in America. If you want to go RCMB on RR, as so many are doing now in their mistaken perception that it "supports" Brady Hoke, go ahead. Others may prefer to call him "coach."
120-84-2 is certainly worthy of that title.
You don't have to go all "This is America" on me. I was just stating my opinion. You can take it however you want, but this is an opinion message board. To each their own.
and that was not letting Shaffer hire whomever he wanted to (he may have hired the same WVU crew, but likely not). If he didn't trust Shaffer to do this, he should have hired a DC he trusted 95% with the D.
His other (very related) mistake was in not recruiting D players as hard as O players.
I agree with you on on the Shaffer part. That was probably RRs biggest failing as a HC. But to say RR wasn't recruiting D as hard as O is garbage.
According to rivals, RR got commits from 84 kids (I am not counting the new guys Hoke brought in except Bryant, who was probably going to Michigan no matter what).
Of those 84, 44 of them were brought in and are either playing or plan on playing defense.
Of the 84 commits, 41 of them were 4 stars or higher.
RR brought in 21 4 star defensive recruits while at Michigan. He brought in 20 offensive 4 star recruits.
Please stop spreading shit.
RR still uses the word "we" when referring to Michigan. That makes me a sad panda.
I can add comments again!
Please, sir, I want real negs.
There has been an argument put forward that RR did not take personal responsibility for the teams shortcomings. Fair argument, however the evidence offered does not compute. one can not say that he did not take personal responsibility, then use a qoute saying " WE did not execute". We is a possesive, by its very nature it includes a group at large and the speaker into one unit. By using the word we he implicate the team, the coaching staff, and himself as underperforming. When one implicates them self as a party guilty of malfeasance, doesn't that mean that they are taking responsibility. At least in a court of law it does, that is why we have the 5th amendment priviledges. In a criminal proceeding if a defendant were about to use the word we in reference to codefendants and taking responsibility, a quick recess would be in order, followed a 5th amendment plea. If your argument against a concept, can be used as an argument for a concept. You should choose a different argument.
( not trying to be douche, just give us a better rationale)
he isn't speaking in a court of law...nice speech though
"I deserved to be fired. I probably shouldn't have been hired in the first place and was hoping for more time until they figured me out. A fine institution such as Michigan deserved better than me. I had no belief that we were ever going to improve. I inherited the best group of athletes in Michigan history and squandered it. I really appreciate the support I received from every portion of the fan base and local media. I really hope to coach again although it's obvious that my system can't work."
Probably without even realizing it, Cowhead managed, along with RRod, to highlight perfectly why he failed at Michigan.
They were going over the incredible class of D-lineman entering the NFL draft this year from the Big 10, Heyward, Watt, Kerrigan etc. As I'm listening I'm thinking, HERE IT IS!! Plain as the nose on your face Rich. You built your reputation, and the credibility of your offensive scheme in the Big Least, where you NEVER had to face, week in and week out, the future NFL level of competition you faced in you 3yrs in the Big 10. France thought they had the strongest & best equipped military in the world in 1938. 2yrs later they found out otherwise.
Its really not even a knock on coach Rod, I certianly believed in his genious too. I saw enough Pat White era W.V. games to have me just tickled at the thought of that coming to AA. I'm just pregmatic enough to take an objective look at why it failed. Saying "we were just to young" is not comprehensive enough to explain it all. There are many examples of young teams having far greater success in various schemes to let this alone be the attributable cause.
Does this mean spread and shred will never work in the Big 10, NO. Thats not the assertion I'm making. It means that a QB heavy, read option offense is not suited to play against the highest level of competition. Wildcats worked in the NFL, for about a minute, then the athletes on D just adjusted. Imagine if the read option or wildcat was all that an NFL team had?? Well folks, thats all we had, and as long as he was the coach, it was all we were going to have. Better he be gone now than on Denards 5th concussion and Devins 3rd.
the offense worked incredibly well, and had nothing to do with Rich Rod getting fired.
While our offense was very good, I think we had way to many weaknesses to be considered 2nd best offense in the country. Our receivers consistently dropped passes, our running backs were very unproductive and defenses really didn't even have to respect the handoff to the running back, our line consistently shot our offense down with penalties, and we were careless with the football, especially in the red zone. An offense with this many flaws cannot be considered the 2nd best offense in the country.
which I trust more than any other metric.
Ok, and we can throw stats around all day, and maybe statistically they do measure up to the 2nd best offense in the country, but just using the "eye" test, they are more likely a top 25 offense. I mean was that the 2nd best offense against Ohio State? What about Mississippi State? Or Michigan State? And while they did move the ball and score against some of the teams like Iowa or Wisconsin, it wasn't what I would consider the second best offense in the country on the field. Just an FYI, am I in no way saying that offense is why RR got fired. If you put together a solid defense with the offense we had this year, we would have been a very tough team to beat.
is that our eyes lie pretty much constantly. To use baseball as an example, because that's where stats have advanced the most, our eyes told us that Jack Morris was a great pitcher, even though he was actually pretty damn "meh." And our eyes say that JD Drew kinda sucks, even though he's an incredibly valuable baseball player.
The point of stats like FEI is that we're not very good at making judgments based on what we observe.
Agreed, but I just can't understand how this ranking system has us #2 offensively. We had so many breakdowns and flaws. And it has Oregon, one of the teams that almost everyone on this board hoped our offense would resemble in a few years, like 8 or 9 spots lower than us. Oregon definitely was one of the top 2 offensive units in the nation, and they have them down there with the likes of East Carolina and Ohio State. Maybe stats can sometimes tell you stuff you don't see, but the opposite is also sometimes true in that they tell you stuff that can mislead you.
Against who?? Oh yeah, the champ of the Big East and a few other patsies. Keep banging that drum PLEASE. Nothing makes me happier than hearing that droned on over and over again by people who must watch completely different games than me. I see a one trick pony that, once the D-end and Linebacker start working together and understanding the reads, gets shut the fuck down. Wildcat anyone?? Hows it working this year?? Are they still using it at all??
Do you think that the run & shoot was a great and viable offense too?? Where did it go??
I did not indict spread style offenses in general. They ARE viable at all levels but must be continually "morphed" and changed to meet the competition as they "morph" themselves. Even the ol run & shoot has some pieces of it remaining all over the league. Did we(Rod) morph or change his scheme?? Nope, ol trick pony just ran the same shit and blamed 3rd and 9 on poor execution. I blame defenses that "wised up" while he didnt "keep up".
Go back and see the top rated offenses in the NCAA/FBS over the past 10-20 years. It'll help you to understand how stats can be misleading.
At the end of the entire season Michigan had the 2nd best offense according to FEI.
because I didn't see many teams with a second year starter at QB or with as many underclassman as we fielded consistently. With mostly JRs starting next year, I think it is safe to say we would have shredded most D's.
The problem was mostly defense, but the offense was terribly inconsistent against decent competition outside of the Illinois game. way too predictable against top tier talent. Qb power left, qb power right wont work against good defenses. You'll shred bowling greens, indianas and umass and end up top ten offense, and you'll flounder against the teams that matter.
given up by basically every good team on our schedule.
17 points wont beat Michigan state, got basically blanked against osu and a rough bowl game performance too. They were better, no disagreement there. I just thought there was too much inconsistency.
Oregon was three points away from winning a national title with a zone read offense against probably the number one overall pick in the draft.
thats right, Oregon ran their QB how many times?? For how many yards?? Spread & Read Option are NOT the same thing.
Once again, Denard will be many concussions to the better for this, as well as Devin & whomever else follows. Anyone care to dispute the record on read option QB's & their durability in the BIG 10?? Juice was the only real example and he was twice the physical strength of Denard yet missed a pretty good amount of time due to injury.
Pryor might be a ring selling moron but he knew better than to hand his physical livelihood over to a read option guy. Probably watched film and saw Pat White take too many hits, then thought about if those hits came from the future NFLer's in the Big 10.
Read option is the wishbone of the 21st century, its gone, done, finete. Will you see remnants of it, yes you will, as with all the other past shemes. Good news is, Denards rushing records for a QB might stand forevermore as a tribute to the "pure" read option offense. Sadly so will our W/L record that went with it.
Oregon ran the read option. It's a read option offense. They probably ran the read option more than we did, and they definitely ran a wider variety of read option plays (extensive use of the mid line etc.).
Oregons "read option" ran the QB 93 times in 2010 and with Masoli in 2009 it was 121 attempts.
Denard ran the ball 256 times in 2010. Pat White had 165 & 197 attempts in 2006/2007.
Nobody's "read option" compares as an equiviolent to RR's. His is FAR more dependant on going against an amatuer D-line/linebacking core(big east) than any other. Face it, its like playing against a good wing-T in highschool. They always scored on us early because we'd get all screwed up trying to read the fakes & losing lane integrity. Once the coaches settled us down and got us looking at the right things we'd shut it down.
and we had the 2nd best offense in the country according to FEI.
and if we'd just played Umass a few more times too huh?? You realize that if me & Bill Gates are standing in a room alone, the average salary in that room is probably 7 billion yet thats in no way representitive of the cumulative success of the people in that room.
I dont have the patience, check the top offenses according to FEI for the past 25yrs. See how they finished. I'm betting mighty Hawaii was one of them.
Form your beloved FEI
2007 offensive ranking/overall ranking
Texas Tech (2/15)
So, do you think FEI offensive ranking is an effective measure?? I say some years, yes. Most years, not so much. I only wish it went back another 10 yrs. 2nd ranked offense means jack shit unless you want to set your goal as being Idaho, Nevada, Tulsa or Hawaii. The prettiest girl at a party full of mingers is not the same as being a supermodel.
You're pretty dumb.
Or is this just how you roll?? If so, you're mother is a truckstop trixie. Of course I know thats not true(probably) but if you're going to post something just to be a dick. I have no choice.
That's just how I roll.
I mean, I'd explain why you're dumb but you wouldn't get it because, well, you're pretty dumb.
Please, explain. I'd LOVE to hear in detail how dumb I am. Please leave nothing out, I can take it.
Better yet, SHUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTH weasel. If you cannot add to the conversation just sit there and breath(though your mouth I'm sure) and leave the debating to those who wish to participate.
If all you can add to ANY conversation is "Your pretty dumb". You've just demonstrated beyond any doubt some serious immaturity. Are you like 7? Does your mom know you've been on the computer??
Either participate or STFU boy.
I don't think you really understand what you just posted.
I understand that I let "beavis" lure me into being his "butthead" for a moment there. Wont happen again. Much easier to just ignore petulant children.
You still don't understand what you posted. You don't understand what FEI is.
That's because he's dumb.
do you need some TP for your BUNGHOLE too. Huh....Huh, huh.
Yeah, after setting up entire Statistical Process Control systems for several manufacturing companies and overseeing TS certification for said systems, I really have no understanding of something as "complicated" as DVOA. Thats just too "fancy" for me.
They sure as shit ran Masoli all the way to the Rose Bowl last season. If we had LaMichael James, we would have ran Denard a lot less too.
How would we even know if we indeed DID have LaMicheal James?? I'm so anxious to see how Hopkins/Cox/Touissant do in Hokes offense. I think Hopkins could be a better back than James(more size/strength). Of course as history shows, in RR world its QB first and damn the torpedo's full ahead, until he busts his head or knee or shoulder.
Not to bash on our stable of running backs, but we don't have LaMichael James.
Edit: Just FYI, Steve Slaton ran for 3,923 yards on 644 attempts for 52 TD's under RR. Seems like he might run a great running back when he has one...
Let me have our 2010 team and play in the big east. We'd have a "great" running back too. I bet our defense would have been ranked in the top 1/2 of that conference as well. Turnovers, well RRods team always have a problem with that regardless of which conference their playing in. Although it balanced out better in the big least because those shitty ass teams were giving up as many as they took. Not so much in a real conference.
The guy was a GREAT 2nd tier college coach who innovated and was able to overachieve against occasional 1st tier teams using the element of surprise. When he got to the top level of college football he failed. He should go back to the 2nd tier and tear it up and be happy doing so. Some coaches move up the ladder and do well, some do not. Revising the matrix for success does not success make.
"Turnovers, well RRods team always have a problem with that regardless of which conference their playing in. "
Show your work, please, because this is 100% pure Colombian bullshit. You should try actually looking at the stats from his time at WVU before spewing this nonsense.
I'll do it for you.
2007 - T34th
2006 - T11th
2005 - T14th
2004 - T56th
2003 - T31st
2002 - T2nd
2001 - T108th
Slaton was a Heisman finalist and a First Team All-American. If that doesn't qualify I don't know what does.
You're changing the topic though, from your totally incorrect statement that RR's offense revolves completely around the QB. Good job running away when evidence proved you wrong.
I've posted how many times Denard & Pat White attempted runs in RR's scheme. Likewise I accurately compared Oregon(everybody's favorite comparison) & their QB's attempts. The numbers clearly demonstrate that RR's read option is HEAVILY biased towards running the QB.
Slaton was indeed a heisman finalist, did you know that Andre Ware was a heisman winner? Was he "great" or just in the right situation at the right time?
Granted, Slaton looked to do OK in the NFL, for a minute. I'm not writing him off yet as I do think he was/is a talented back BUT..If Hopkins goes for 1600 next year and it wouldnt surprise me. I will refuse to believe that he "magically" got great simply because he was on the planet breathing for an additional year.
Slaton did well in the NFL until he was hurt. Yes RR ran the quarterback more than Chip Kelly, but Kelly never had a QB like White or Denard. RR would be an idiot not to run them more than anyone else.
Had he ran Smith or Shaw or if Fitz had been healthy everyone here would be correctly screaming bloody murder that Denard wasn't getting enough carries. When you have a talent like those two, you use it. Period.
Troy Smith could run with the best of them, however he won a national title by NOT relying on that skill. Too easy for a D to adjust and stop it. Time will prove this out, it is not a growing trend(read option, running QB)it peaked in 2006
And Cam Newton did run his way to a title. So did Tebow and so did VY. McCoy also ran a lot and Texas could very well have won if he didn't get hurt.
Those aren't zone read examples, but running QB's are a good asset.
Talking about all the big10 D-linemen going in the draft this year kind of strengthens the point about the team being young. You have a line returning 4 of 5 starters that was going up against high draft pick seniors. Especially in a position like OL where experience and strength training time is important, those class differences mean a lot.
if you ever admit that the cupboard was as bare as could be when he got here. Lloyd would have had a terrible season in 2008 - not 3-9, but pretty bad nonetheless.
and when they left, who was in line behind them to take their place? That's the point of the Bare Cupboard" rationale - there was no depth or experience! The cupboard was bare on offense (young and inexperienced) and that was just starting to change in 2010. The defensive cupboard was emptied when the '08 seniors left. It got emptier when Stevie B, D Warren, and Graham left after the '09 season. There was and is plenty of talent on the roster but there had never been depth and experience since the end of the '07 season.
Did you not see Manningham absolutely owning Mallett on the sidelines during his one and only season as a Wolverine? Just repeatedly yelling and screaming at him in plain view? There was no way he was coming back. Arrington, maybe. But with Mallet gone, and he was gone the second Mustain left Arkansas, what good is a great WR if your QB can't hit the broad side of a barn?
We were going to suck in 2008 ... no way around that reality.
And when you think about it objectively, our D in 2007 wasn't THAT great. We lost to App State and were blown out by Oregon the following week. We won the bowl game despite the D giving up 30+ points...how often does that happen (in a decent bowl)? 2006 was good right up until the point we played good teams...then we got crushed.
Our entire program was in serious decline before RR got here and then the 07 class graduated and took what was left of our top flight talent with it. We lost more to graduation than to defection and we had a big empty nothing to take its place.
Ha! This is why no one takes you seriously. How many "key players" do you think left after RichRod was hired?
The reason everyone talks about mallet and boren is because those are the only 2 players who left after RichRod was hired that have done anything on the football field. Unless you have some list of amazing players who transferred that have been tearing it up lately.
"I'm still confident in that we have a formula to have great success and I just need to be in an opportunity, situation where everybody is pulling in the same direction."
He's still speaking "coachspeak;" the quote covers the answer to an obvious question without being inflammatory or specifically calling anyone out. I would say RR has learned his lesson about walking into a parochial pissing match without doing due diligence first, but maybe he knew the risk involved.
I am beginning to think he may have known about the rift and that is why his buyout clause was so high. At any rate, it will be interesting to see if anyone is able to get anything other than coachspeak out of him in subsequent interviews. I am guessing they don't until a lot further down the line, like after he retires.
I wish I knew how that font change happened. I intended that last post to be all the same, as usual.
RR latest press-strategy evokes the same irritating flaws he had at Michigan. He gets squirrely.
1) He never just mans-up and takes full responsibility. No, he's not responsible for everything. But most great coaches say the buck stops here. They don't blame empty cupboards and bumbling freshmen or "the drama." They get the big bucks. They're the leaders. They take the bullet.
2) But, if he must complain or point fingers, he should at least have the balls to go straight at it. He dances around the subject ("the timing"). He implies ("events beyond my control"). Bo, when he couldn't restrain himself, didn't mince words. If RR thinks DB fucked him over, for example, he should either say so -- and stand behind it -- or he should say nothing at all.
To fire up the troops. But seriously, my money is on RR was done if DB knew that Brady could bring Mattison. Case closed. If RR didn't have an answer for who he would hire as a DC/recruiter (emphasis on recruiter) when they had their pow wow...Well, it was "over when the Germans bombed Pearl harbor".
Lots of pressure on Borges...
after having his team taken away."
Get your history straight. Bump Elliott retired of his own accord, and in fact was the one who initially suggested the name of Glenn E. Schembechler to Don Canham.
So there was no reason for him to cry and complain, in other words.
Lots of people on here falling into the same old trap of excusing the results with off the field intangibles, rather than focus on the tangible product he was responsible for. He does the same thing in the interview. Unfortunately, not being fully accountable was too often his MO at Michigan.
Good guy, but his regimented belief that he is the smartest guy in the room did more to harm him at Michigan then the opinions/agendas of various factions of fans. If he does a better job of putting together a winner that lives up to the standards you must meet at Michigan, we aren't talking about him in the past tense. Winning is what unites a fan base and failing to win will keep it divided.
I like Rich though. I think he is a brilliant offfensive mind. I would have embraced him returning as coach if that is what Mr. Brandon deemed best. I am glad we are on track to get our program back however.
"He loved Big Brother."
Also, why would you want a coach that didn't have full confidence in his abilities to lead a team? Would you want a coach who says, "Well, I don't really know if I'm all that smart and I don't know if I can lead this team, but hey, I guess we'll try and see what happens"?!
Anyway, you certainly got what you wanted when you innocently started this thread.
This thread was hijacked by the same old arguments we've all read a gazillion times, already. Was RR on The Herd and what did he talk about?
That he was ready and had a great week of preparation but just couldn't execute.
this board is populated with some pathetic posters since RR was fired and Hoke hired.
You nailed it AAmichigan when you said in another thread that Nate Volk was the biggest ass-clown poster on this site....but he sure has some competition if this thread is any indication.
Some of these new posters are just mind-numbingly stupid.