Clock Error
The SEC admitted the refs erred when allowing the playclock to run after an offensive penalty (Alabama had the ball late and was trying to run the clock out).
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11694663/southeastern-co…
Essentailly, the same thing happened near the end of the Michigan - Rutgers game, but I don't remember seeing a big deal made of it. Barring a first down, not getting that extra run-off would have forced Rutgers to punt it back to Michigan.
October 14th, 2014 at 8:03 AM ^
There was a big deal made of it.
October 14th, 2014 at 8:32 AM ^
and um, uh, er, well, uh, er .....
We don't know what the answer was. It appears it was not the admission of a mistake, and was somehow satisfactorily explained.
October 14th, 2014 at 9:16 AM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 11:08 AM ^
If you have followed the history of the Big Ten office, they will almost NEVER admit to screwing over Michigan with incorrect calls. NEVER.
However, they tend to fall over themselves to apologize when they do something in a Michigan game that has an appearance of being wrong towrds the other team.
We've had numerous games where the Big Ten office has issued apologies after the game to our opponents, but almost never to us. I don't think this is a coincidence.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:54 AM ^
Oh, definitely. The Big Ten administration is CLEARLY trying to run Michigan out of the conference at the wishes of more profitable athletic squads from places like Rutgers, Purdue, and Northwestern.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:56 AM ^
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October 14th, 2014 at 7:41 PM ^
Actually, the B1G did apologize after the 1990 MSU game.
October 14th, 2014 at 9:13 AM ^
It's petty and it's over...but why the uproar over the SEC and not our game? Why didn't the B1G come out and say they blew it? Or did they?
October 14th, 2014 at 9:26 AM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 9:39 AM ^
Yep, their game actually mattered. We just want to see our players dance and have a really fun time, results be damned.
October 14th, 2014 at 10:28 AM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 10:36 AM ^
Yes, darn those players for attempting to enjoy the game they spend all week preparing for. They should be spending more time reading books on mental fortitude than listening to their so called music.
In addition, you are right, no one around this blog cares about results. There hasn't been a constant calling for Hoke's job or numerous coaching search threads. People have been talking about their desire for more on-field dancing. Now that I know Hoke is OK with Norfleet dancing while waiting for a punt instead of having laser like focus waiting for guys to line up I want Hoke to get an extension. Lock him up with the Charlie Weis special.
October 14th, 2014 at 8:26 AM ^
When I played in HS we used to do the same thing if the other team was out of timeouts. Our coach would tell our guard to be the only one who goes on 1, or moves for that matter, and he had a free shot at the guy across from him and would SMASH him. It was hilarious in the film room. It helped that our guard was our strongest guy and hardest hitter.
I think the coaches got a kick out of it for multiple reasons, classic.
October 14th, 2014 at 8:56 AM ^
Your coach sounds like a very classy guy. Just the type we want to help develop the character of the young men in his charge..
October 14th, 2014 at 9:13 AM ^
Its called gamesmanship, not a big deal. We only did it in 3 games of my 3 year varsity career, so its not like he made a habbit of it. I call it being resourceful. So sanctimonious, the people here...
YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAMES!!!
October 14th, 2014 at 9:30 AM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 9:37 AM ^
you guys are jumping to a lot of conclusions here. You do not know my coach, nor do you know the events that led up to those decisions. He was a stand up guy who held us all fully accountable and sent at least 20 kids to play college ball.
The DT was a cheap shot artist and our coach was giving our guard a chance to get him back for going at his knees and punching in the stomach all game. Justice was served, and we won the game.
The other two games are hard to recall but its really not a big deal. Most DT's fire off when they see the guy across from them at that level, not as many watch the ball as you would think.
You guys act so soft, it permiates our program. Give me a mean old grimy ball coach who wins games anyday...probably why our HS coach had a state championship on his resume...
October 14th, 2014 at 10:18 AM ^
You're an asshole. Your coach is also an asshole. All this bravado and "soft" talk is just your way of trying to justify being an asshole. And in classic asshole fashion, you then blame non-assholes for problems we don't affect whatsoever.
October 14th, 2014 at 10:23 AM ^
softy...
October 14th, 2014 at 1:30 PM ^
I upvoted you, fwiw. That little subthread was the funniest thing I read on this site in a few days.
October 14th, 2014 at 6:01 PM ^
Reading these exchanges has made my day at work much happier. I was an OL in HS and lower level college so completely understand how something like that could happen. While blatant cheap shots like taking out somebody's knees are complete asshattery firing off the line early is not likely to injure somebody seriously. i'm not saying i agree with your coach to intentionally set this up but anyone who's played football at the HS level or above has had to deal with a cheap shot artist at some point. Ideally it's totally within the rules but sometimes you have to stand up to a bully.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:16 AM ^
Football causes dudes to do weird things. I had a friend in HS who played a DT/NT. This was in the late '80's and we played a 'stunt 4-3' (think old Perles MSU/Steeler defense without, you know, the personnel). Because he lined up in a slanted stance on the DL, he was allowed to easily shoot gaps and occasional do something cool in the backfields of bad teams.
During the last game of our senior year we played against a slightly smaller school that thought we had a rivalry (think Illini). Our dominance extended to their women as we also pilfered their little schoolhouse at will, leaving their boys fly solo on weekends. Their QB once threw rocks at us in the parking lot of a local McDonalds.
Early in the game, after enduring a few minutes of shit-talking between plays, my NHS/Merit Scholar DL-playing friend jumped a snap by a split second through the gap and punched their QB in the....groin. The remainder of the game went about as smoothly as you could imagine. It's an ugly game sometimes.
October 14th, 2014 at 10:44 PM ^
Fear does not exist in this dojo, does it?
October 14th, 2014 at 10:34 AM ^
You said he had your hardest hitter take a free shot at the guy across from him and that he would SMASH him. And the coaches found that hiarious afterwards.
We understand the gamesmanship involved with taking the penalties. That's not an issue. Teaching players to deliberately take cheap shots when they have the opportunity is another matter. You might be able to justifiy one, but I'm still unclear on what lesson he was teaching his players. Winning is all that matters?
I feel confident in saying that my personal softness isn't permeating our program. I expect our coaches and players to be tough, but I never thought of teaching or taking cheap shots as a sign of toughness. In any case, the younger the players involved, the more unacceptable I find it.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:26 AM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 10:31 AM ^
This has been some wonderful justification on your part. Your coach flat out tells your offensive lineman to break the rules, but its ok becasue its "gamesmanship". What exactly is "gamesmanship"? Was the D-lineman's cheap shots gamesmanship? What other rule breaking is acceptable under the guise of "playing to win"? Let me guess, if you ain't cheating you ain't trying right?
Oh, but the other player was dirty you say, so its ok to be dirty as well. That is some wonderful logic there, everyone lies, cheats, steals and murders, so its ok if I do it too.
But now we are soft as a fanbase. Which doesn't even make any sense, but setting aside the oddness of calling an entire fanbase soft for not approving of cheating, how does the fanbases opinions permeate the program? My dissaproval or your coaches tactics is the reason Michigan is not good at football any longer? Why were they ever good then, I have never approved of that kind of action on the field.
Then we get to the winning. All actions are justifiable as long as your coach won. And one whole state championship in high scool football, there are no other coaches out there who can claim one of those. Actually, wait I played high school football (well I was on the team at least) for a coach with multiple state titles and at no point did they tell their players to blatently break the rules. How did he win so often if he was so soft that he didn't ask his players to break the rules to get in cheap shots at the other team?
Face it, your coaches actions were dirty, he may have been a wonderful guy otherwise, but he told your player to take cheap shots. If you are ok with it, thats fine, but don't try all these lame means to justify it or call people "soft" who don't approve of cheap shots.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:12 AM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 12:06 PM ^
I am fine with jumping offsides to run the clock out, I don't believe anyone here has a problem with that. The issue was the joy you seemed to take in one of your players getting the green light from your coach to take an illegal shot at your opponent. Then when people tried to say breaking the rules to get some kind of psuedo revenge on a dirty player was not good, you proceeded to attack people and call them soft.
I would love a chance to smash the guy off the line if he was taking cheap shots at me all game, and if I had any skill at all I would do my best to bury him into the ground and smash him from snap to whistle. I would not stoop down to his level by using an otherwise good strategy of running down the clock to retun a cheap shot.
I appreciate the discussion and you not backing down or running away from people's criticism of your comments. I would just suggest being a bit more clear in your main point next time, because I agree with it, taking a meaningless late game false start to run time off the clock is an excellent strategy.
October 14th, 2014 at 10:43 PM ^
Sweep the leg.
October 14th, 2014 at 3:49 PM ^
What other rule breaking is acceptable under the guise of "playing to win"?
Pretty much anything if it isn't dangerous to other players...
The common rules that basically every coach teaches their players to violate -
Offensive holding
Defensive holding
Pass interference (see: pick play)
ineligible man downfield
Delay of Game (what? You broke the rules and took an intentional delay of game?)
Actually, wait I played high school football (well I was on the team at least) for a coach with multiple state titles and at no point did they tell their players to blatently break the rules.
Sorry - don't buy it. He NEVER told a DB that if they were going to get beat for a touchdown to just drag the dude down and take the 15 yard penalty?
October 14th, 2014 at 12:27 PM ^
You do not know my coach, nor do you know the events that led up to those decisions.This is true, I don't know your coach, but I can make some inferences from the limited amount of data that you've volunteered....and they're not good.
October 15th, 2014 at 7:37 AM ^
Oh no, you disapprove :(
October 14th, 2014 at 9:45 AM ^
it helps run out the clock, resets the playclock, so you can run an additional 30 seconds off the clock everytime you do it.
Do you follow football?
October 14th, 2014 at 10:15 AM ^
dick. I felt like I was growing manly hair all over my body just reading you.
October 14th, 2014 at 10:30 AM ^
very insightful, thank you!
October 14th, 2014 at 11:19 AM ^
That's the point of this entire thread - the clock is not supposed to continue to run after an offensive penalty. If that were the case, an offensive team could take an infinite number of delay of game penalties and run the clock out completely no matter how much time is on the clock. And that doesn't justify taking cheap shots at unsuspecting players.
My high school coach won a few state championships himself (Josh Sellers if you feel like looking him up) and I happened to be on a pair of those teams. And he won his championships without being an asshole, or I guess you would say he won them by being a softy.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:33 AM ^
October 15th, 2014 at 8:41 AM ^
So either your coach and the officials didn't know the rule, or the officials didn't know the rule.
Or your lying.
Regardless, it seems like you'd be fine with soccer players who fake injuries to run extra time off the clock as well. No? What's the effective difference to the game?
Gamesmanship is a term for a reason. Faking an injury to let time run off the clock or to prevent an offense from running no huddle (ahem NY Giants) is gamesmanship.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of gamesmanship. I don't know how anyone is.
October 14th, 2014 at 10:03 AM ^
We used to do similar things in hockey. I used to play excessively cheap it was the only way to make the playing field level since I was shorter and smaller everyone else my head and body got targeted so many times. Only one person ever got one on me and that was because I got knocked out.
These guys don't understand unless you played something at a high level the games within the game itself. My goal was to talk as much smack as I could while playing dirty so I could get you worried about me and taking shots at me instead of playing the game. The rule we had was anytime your on the ice be prepared to hit or else your going to get hit. We always practiced hard and hit hard in practice. That mentality carried over into games. I'm sure your team did the same thing, anytime you step onto the field inbetween the white lines be ready to hit or be hit.
October 14th, 2014 at 10:28 AM ^
I would have loved to have you as a team mate! Once I put that helmet on it changed me. My coaches would say I'm a loveable teddy bear off the field but as soon as I put the helmet on I was a mean SOB.
I used to talk mad shit in football, never did in my other sports, it was just part of the game. If you arent trying to get a mental edge on your opponent then yu arent trying your best, in my opinion.
You better come ready on the field, regardless, and gamesmanship is just part of the game. Guys want to call me an asshole on here because they approach the game differently. Screw all those softies, probably the same guys that B up when its crunch time, kind of like Hoke and his whole regime. Playing with class and integrity isnt getting us anywhere guys. Wheres the borderline cheap shots and skirmishes with other players that set the tone and let them know who they are up against. It is unapparent, and we play like punks. Have a freaking edge but play within the rules and limits of the game, just like I always did.
October 14th, 2014 at 10:37 AM ^
Because it seems like you warped in from 1950, when being an absolute asshole made you more of a man.
That was fucking stupid then, and it's fucking stupid now.
P.S. No one gives a shit about your inflated ego. You've got some serious Napoleon syndrome.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:06 AM ^
October 14th, 2014 at 1:06 PM ^
Give it a rest man, literally no one needed you to fight this battle over a story.
October 14th, 2014 at 10:46 AM ^
It's a physical game and a violent one. Usually the more physical violent team wins. Everyone gives State hell for there 60 minutes of un-nessecary roughness quote but it's a good motto to adopt.
October 14th, 2014 at 10:49 AM ^
Or you could have just tried playing with some skill. Being small is no excuse. Being a cheap shot is being a cheap shot no matter what justification you want to try. You can be a physical player without being dirty. If you played at any kind of high level you would have been dropped about one shift in.
October 14th, 2014 at 10:58 AM ^
I had lots of skill I was generally the most skilled player on the ice always a first line center. I never had the intentnion of hurting anyone and never did being cheap it was a tool I used to get under your skin. I got dropped yeah but I was generally tougher than 99% of the people I played against. Getting hit never bothered me sometimes I enjoyed it.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:11 AM ^
Ok so that's a little different than what this guy is talking about, no? I talked shit all the time. Giving a guy a little poke in the ribs is one thing. A little whack on the shin pads is fine. That's not "cheap." Cross check a dude in the back near the boards? Throw an elbow at a guys head? Give a guy a two hander across the wrist or punch a guy in the back of the head and then skate away? That's cheap, and personal opinion, far closer to the kind of thing this guy is talking about.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:20 AM ^
No I wouldn't do anything that put my team in a bad situation but I did everything I could to aggravate you. If your team had a dominate player I always went after him if you didn't I always went after your biggest dude since big dudes arent used to getting messed with and lose their cool quickly. It was always "legal" by hockey terms. Throwing elbows and sucker punches gets you tossed out of games fast. I've had a few thrown at me.
October 14th, 2014 at 11:22 AM ^
"I used to play excessively cheap it was the only way to make the playing field level since I was shorter and smaller"
Nothing worse than a cheap shot artist who rationalizes his dirty play as ok because he's scrawny. Todd Brost was a little guy, did he play "excessively cheap?"
You never had any intention of hurting anyone? You used "cheating" as a tool? C'mon man. The ONLY reason that you were able to get away with this crap was because you played High School hockey where there was no fighting and no real consequences to that kind of behavior. If you tried that BS in juniors, college, or the pros, let's just say you would have been motivated to change your behavior.
So, according to you, you were more skilled and tougher than almost anyone on the ice, but because you were small, felt the need to play "excessively cheap?" GFYCS! What a fucking tool!