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Citrus Bowl or Bust for Me

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:19 PM
#1
Ziff72
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 5147
Citrus Bowl or Bust for Me

On the way home Valenti and Foster were doing the usual baiting Michigan fans into calling up since there are no ratings in talking MSU football.

The premise was would you root for MSU to help Mich get to the BCS?  I don't care about that but based on all the diaries posted on here and the callers it does appear that a lot of fans do want to go to the BCS.  

My question is why?  Bowls hold very little interest for me.   The only bowls that I find compelling are against top teams.   I would much rather test ourselves against Arkansas than play Houston.   If the BCS bid meant we were guaranteed to play Oklahoma, Oklahoma or Stanford than I would be fine with it, but Houston?  Who wants that?

If you are not going to the game the only thing that matters about the bowl game is bragging rights and entertainment.  Michigan does not need publicity.  Come on it's Michigan!  So I don't but that argument to go to the BCS

Let's look at the other factors.

Gametime- Advantage Citrus.   1:00 start day off work vs a midnight finish on a work night

Opponent- Advantage Citrus.   Arkansas vs Houston  Not even close.  Plus a win gives us Seee Ceee bragging rights and continues our historical domination of them.

So to those of you that want to go to the Sugar Bowl can you explain why?

 

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:22 PM | More people will watch the Sugar Bowl (Score:5 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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Joined: 12/03/2008
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Recruits will like it.  It carries weight whether it should or shouldn't. 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:35 PM | Plus, at this point it will (Score:5 Normal)
justingoblue
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Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10871

Plus, at this point it will get a streak of non-appearances off our back. It also carries a lot of weight that Hoke went to the BCS in his first year. That's a big draw for recruits as well.

Go Blue!

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:39 PM | yeah (Score:5 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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Joined: 12/03/2008
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I feel like beating Houston (were that to happen) in the Sugar Bowl this year would be sneaking into a BCS bowl and sneaking away with a BCS win, but I'll take it after '08-'11.  Michigan just needs good publicity right now.  We can worry about the "real" worth of games after the Wolverines are solidly back on their feet. 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:42 PM | My feelings exactly. (Score:5 Normal)
justingoblue
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Joined: 11/16/2010
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You can also add that it's the BCS that has us play Houston, not our scheduling. It's not like we'd decline a Sugar Bowl bid if Alabama slipped to three.

Go Blue!

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November 30th, 2011 at 8:28 PM | Home Game (Score:0 Overrated)
Steve in PA
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Joined: 08/10/2009
MGoPoints: 2345

It is practically a home game for Houston.  After seeing our secondary (or whole defense) recently until this year I still get uneasy about facing teams that put up gaudy stats.  But, the Beaver is gone along with GERG...so bring it.

 

 

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November 30th, 2011 at 8:32 PM | Home game? I get that it (Score:1)
scparksDPT
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Joined: 01/06/2011
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Home game? I get that it wouldbe close to Houston but do the Cougar fans really travel all that well?

"If you don't think you're a winner, you don't belong here." - Vince Lombardi -

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November 30th, 2011 at 9:36 PM | I'm sure all thousand of them (Score:3 Normal)
Lionsfan
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I'm sure all thousand of them could make the trip, New Orleans isn't too far away from the Houston area

If you're doing nothing, how do you know when you're finished?

StraightDave owes me a steak dinner

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November 30th, 2011 at 9:37 PM | The distance from Houston to NOLA is 350 miles (Score:2 Normal)
m1817
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Joined: 01/15/2011
MGoPoints: 570

The distance from Houston to NOLA is 350 miles - roughly the same as the distance from Ann Arbor to Champaign-Urbana.  Hardly a close by game for UH.

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November 30th, 2011 at 8:30 PM | I would rather lose in a BCS (Score:3 Normal)
brandanomano
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Joined: 09/05/2009
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I would rather lose in a BCS bowl than win, say, the Capital One Bowl (not sure where we would go if we didn't get into the BCS). BCS games get so much more hype and just playing in one would tell everybody that we're back. Believe what you want, but people don't view us the same as they did 6 years ago. Playing a top 10 team and having a very realistic shot at winning (assuming we would play Houston) on national television would put us back to a place we haven't been in a very long time as far as national relevancy goes.

Special Teams means special times!

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November 30th, 2011 at 9:43 PM | Thanks (Score:3 Normal)
Ziff72
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 5147

I'd like to thank everyone for their input on this thread.  While we mostly disagree I did find it very insightful to see how much you guys still value certain bowls and the prestige that comes with it.   I also found out that as much as the msm media is bagged on you still want the love from them.

I wonder if we were in this same position 5 years ago if the responses would still be the same?   Reading your responses it feels like a lot of people want payback for the beating we took in the media pretty much since The Horror and that our standing in said media is important.

As a guy that grew up when all the "BCS Bowls" were played on the same day and the Sugar Bowl and Cotton Bowl started things off, I respect your value of the bowls.  I guess I just can't stand the bowls anymore for what they have done to block a playoff.

I still like watching the big bowls, but more than anything I like Mich playing big games and Houston just doesn't do it for me.  With the Non conference schedule getting watered down I just want to face the big boys as much as we can.

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November 30th, 2011 at 9:48 PM | Houston or not, playing a (Score:5 Normal)
WolvinLA2
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Houston or not, playing a top-10, undefeated team in a BCS bowl is a big game. No matter the opponent.

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November 30th, 2011 at 10:07 PM | Good discussion (Score:2)
EGD
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MGoPoints: 1884

This was a fun thread, thanks for starting it Ziff.

"You will suffer humiliation when the team from my area defeats the team from your area." -- The Onion

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November 30th, 2011 at 10:15 PM | I think you should ask a different question (Score:2)
gobluehtown
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Joined: 10/26/2008
MGoPoints: 619

Which as a fan would you rather go to? 
 

For me since I live in Texas, much easier and cheaper to get to Nola. Plus as mentioned before its New Orleans fergodsakes. 

 

New Orleans >>>>>>>> Disney Crap

-A Texas Wolverine

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:23 PM | 1. New Orleans is tits. 2. (Score:5 Normal)
KinesiologyNerd
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Joined: 02/10/2009
MGoPoints: 5974

1. New Orleans is the tits.

2. It's a BCS bowl.

3. $17,000,000 vs. $4,250,000

Yep, I'm sold.

I know from experience dude. If you know what I mean.

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:26 PM | posted from iPhone (Score:1)
bluenyc
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Joined: 06/25/2010
MGoPoints: 7029

Question : do we have to split the money with the b1g after expenses? Does the ad make more money on the bcs than average bowl

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:38 PM | Yea, we split it. (Score:2 Normal)
justingoblue
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Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10871

The entire conference should be rooting for us to go. It's an extra million in their coffers if we do, and an extra million that they've become accustomed to after this current streak of at-large bids that the conference has.

Go Blue!

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November 30th, 2011 at 11:50 PM | If they still do it with 12 teams like they used to (Score:2)
M-Wolverine
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Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 38828

Yes, they split it with the rest of the conference. But you get an extra share of the bowl you're at, so you modestly get more money if you go to a better bowl than a worse one.  And obviously a big payout bowl makes the payday bigger for everyone in the conference.

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:31 PM | At first (Score:5 Normal)
jabberwock
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Joined: 07/04/2008
MGoPoints: 3544

I was completely persuaded by the OP's reasoned argument.

 

Then you mentioned the tits thing.

Love & Hate are horns on the same goat.

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:52 PM | Now, you've (Score:2 Normal)
hart4eva
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Joined: 02/21/2011
MGoPoints: 183

Now, you've got me picturing a llama saying tits and I can't stop laughing to myself.

Anyway, I want moar BCSz!

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules." - Walter Sobchak

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November 30th, 2011 at 9:07 PM | I'll bring the beads! (Score:2)
a2_electricboogaloo
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Joined: 04/21/2011
MGoPoints: 4027

I'll bring the beads!

USING GRATUITOUS AMOUNTS OF CAPS LOCK SINCE APRIL 2011

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November 30th, 2011 at 10:12 PM | I'm so confident I already (Score:2)
Go Blue Eyes
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Joined: 12/05/2010
MGoPoints: 574

I'm so confident I already have my hotel room booked.  M vs. Houston would be a great way to end the season - a BCS bowl is much better.

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November 30th, 2011 at 11:32 PM | You're confident? I have (Score:1)
goblue7612
Joined: 03/02/2010
MGoPoints: 1019

You're confident? I have three rooms booked for my crew.

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November 30th, 2011 at 10:03 PM | You said it. (Score:1)
GoBlue2002
Joined: 12/18/2010
MGoPoints: 74

4 times the payout. You take that every time (Sorry to sound all Dave Brandon but I think he's doing a great job).

Houston or not, you take the BCS bowl every time.

GO BLUE!

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:23 PM | No (Score:3 Normal)
MGoCooper
Joined: 04/21/2011
MGoPoints: 1025

BCS bowl. More money, exposure, practice time, and prestige.

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:36 PM | Hmm (Score:-1 Overrated)
Ziff72
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 5147

1. I think we split the money with the Big Ten and we'll eat money with the whole BCS ticket scam. Plus you don't actually see the money or any benfit from it if we endeed get more which I don't think we do.

2. Agains we're Michigan I think recruits know who we are.

3. Practice Time?   I think it's all the same.

4. Prestige?  What does that mean to you?  We're Michigan.  You are a fan.   Do you get more prestige at work for beating Hoston or beating Arkansas?

 

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:42 PM | Prestige (Score:4 Normal)
EGD
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Joined: 09/16/2009
MGoPoints: 1884

If you win the Sugar Bowl, you get the same trophy no matter who the opponent is. 

But I actually agree with you on that--I do hope our Sugar Bowl opponent is someone with more cachet than Houston.  It's just that I would not want to go a step down from the BCS-level in order to get a bigger-name opponent.

"You will suffer humiliation when the team from my area defeats the team from your area." -- The Onion

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:45 PM | For that matter, should (Score:5 Normal)
justingoblue
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Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10871

For that matter, should Wisconsin want the Capitol One Bowl if UCLA goes to the Rose because Arkansas>UCLA?

Go Blue!

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November 30th, 2011 at 8:41 PM | You get more prestige for (Score:3 Normal)
denardogasm
Joined: 09/11/2011
MGoPoints: 1860

You get more prestige for winning the Sugar Bowl.  That's the way the system is set up.  The "best teams" in the country go to the BCS bowls.  So to be considered among those teams is good for our prestige, which has to be constantly rekindled in order for it to continue.  In a lesser bowl we get a few hours of media attention from Spielman and friends, and maybe a few minutes of Herbie.  In the Sugar Bowl we're the only game of the day and we get an entire day of Stuart Scott and Scott Van Pelt throwing it to that fox Sage Steele for a repeated story about Hoke bringing Michigan back to national prominence. Primetime bowl game is always preferable to a 1 o'clock bowl game.  More young high school players will see a Sugar Bowl than the Citrus Bowl.  It doesn't matter how prestigious you or I thinks Michigan has. It matters what the media says, because that's who everyone else listens to. Easy choice.

"Michigan Defense" is dominating everything, in every aspect of life. That's a rough definition.

-Craig Roh 10/29/2011

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November 30th, 2011 at 8:45 PM | True. One of the main points (Score:3 Normal)
gordie bell
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True. One of the main points Dave Pasch made in the intro to the Game on ABC was OSU's  streak of 6 straight BCS Bowls was at an end, coupled with M still having a shot at a BCS Bowl.

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November 30th, 2011 at 9:14 PM | Ratings (Score:-1 Overrated)
Ziff72
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 5147

Didn't you read the guy who pointed out the Citrus will get better rating swith us in ti?

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November 30th, 2011 at 9:21 PM | Pretty sure "that guy" (Score:4 Normal)
denardogasm
Joined: 09/11/2011
MGoPoints: 1860

Pretty sure "that guy" doesn't know what future ratings will be... Each game has to be taken individually.  I didn't want to get involved in that discussion below because your method of arguing is annoying as hell. You're OPINION is perfectly valid, but nothing you have presented so far has won the argument, so stop acting like it's a foregone conclusion.

"Michigan Defense" is dominating everything, in every aspect of life. That's a rough definition.

-Craig Roh 10/29/2011

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November 30th, 2011 at 8:34 PM | Yes. (Score:1)
scparksDPT
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Joined: 01/06/2011
MGoPoints: 588

Practice time is huge. I want those guys to get as much time together as possible. More practices this year will only help us in the future.

"If you don't think you're a winner, you don't belong here." - Vince Lombardi -

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:24 PM | Houston is putting up (Score:1 Flamebait)
ryebreadboy
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Joined: 12/02/2010
MGoPoints: 1791

Houston is putting up incredible numbers this year.  That's a game we could very well lose if our pass protection vs. OSU is any indication.  That said, I always want to see Michigan in the most prestigious position ever.  BCS bowls are more prestigious, thus that's what I want.  I'll watch Michigan play anyone, so I care less about the opponent.  Plus, like I said, I think Houston is pretty good.

Also, can we just talk about how ridiculous it is that the MNC game is likely to be LSU vs. Alabama?  Alabama lost head-to-head and can't even be conference champion.  After 2006 where people shot down the idea of a UofM/OSU MNC rematch, I just can't understand the support for a rematch here.  Is it 'cause it's the SEC?  Or just because the LSU/'Bama game was a little further removed from the final BCS polling?  Stupid.  LSU, as clear number one, should play someone they haven't already played -- and beaten -- even if it's not #2 Alabama.

Denard has spent the offseason working really hard and smiling at people.

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:35 PM | Alabama v. Okla. St. (Score:3 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
Erik_in_Dayton's picture
Joined: 12/03/2008
MGoPoints: 6784

First, I hate Alabama under Saban.

Anyway, Okla. St. has won more games against ranked teams than Alabama.  Alabama, though, has a much better loss, a loss in overtime to the No. 1 team in the country v. a loss to Iowa St.(!).  Alabama also just looks better to me, though I admittedly only saw Okla. St. play against Iowa St.  Finally, while a lot of people complain about the SEC getting so much attention, I think that the Big 12 is really overrated.  That league plays no defense.  Look at what happened to Nebraska when they moved to the Big Ten.  Michigan, Wisconsin, and even OSU (before Miller was hurt) moved the ball on them pretty easily. 

I hate to say it, but I think you have to go with Alabama.  Blame Okla. St. for losing to Iowa St.

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:49 PM | Better vs. more deserving (Score:2 Normal)
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 4162

Alabama does look better. But they've also had fewer opportunities to look bad. Despite playing in the SEC, their schedule is really pretty bad. Their best wins are Penn State, Arkansas, and Auburn.  We all know that Penn State is not a good team. I don't buy Arkansas, they snuck out wins against Vandy, Ole Miss, aTm, and Troy, best win against South Carolina after Lattimore went out, got killed by both 'bama and LSU. Auburn's a bad team. Other than that,  Alabama's schedule is Kent State, North Texas, Florida, Vandy, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Mississippi State, and Georgia Southern.

Alabama may be better but Oklahoma State's resume is more impressive, despite their loss. With the better resume, they're more deserving of the shot, given bama's loss to LSU.

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December 1st, 2011 at 12:45 PM | You can't mention that Bama (Score:1)
joeyb
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Joined: 10/12/2008
MGoPoints: 11302

You can't mention that Bama lost in OT without mentioning that it was a home game and Oklahoma State lost in 2OT on the road.

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:36 PM | The problem is you have to (Score:3 Normal)
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 4162

The problem is you have to find a team to replace 'bama. Let's restrict it to the 1 loss or undefeated teams...

Houston? Potentially 13-0 but their best win is by 4 over a UCLA team that just got the snot kicked out of them by USC.

Stanford? Lost by 20 to a team LSU beat by 20. Also didn't win their conference.

Virginia Tech? Until they beat Clemson, their best win is??? Georgia Tech? Virginia? Arkansas State? If they beat Clemson, then their best win is over a 8-4 Clemson that already beat them at home by 20.

Oklahoma State? Here's the only plausible alternative, if they beat OU, especially if they beat them big. Wins over 5 top 25 teams vs. 2 for Alabama (and only 3 with winning records). Overtime loss away on the night that their school had a couple coaches die in a plane crash. Alabama's probably a better team. Is Okie State more deserving? Maybe.

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:38 PM | ehh. lets nots hijack the thread. the rematch discussion be long (Score:2 Funny)
Zok
Joined: 03/24/2009
MGoPoints: 132

.

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:44 PM | I agree (Score:3 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
Erik_in_Dayton's picture
Joined: 12/03/2008
MGoPoints: 6784

I would, though, like to briefly discuss my theories about the last episode of Lost...

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

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November 30th, 2011 at 10:15 PM | Outstanding comment. I (Score:5 Normal)
03 Blue 07
03 Blue 07's picture
Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 1729

Outstanding comment. I remember getting into all kinds of internet debates with my friends over the finale. For the record, I liked it; the show was about people and relationships, not about a solving a fucking puzzle. It wasn't a giant, 5-year game that you were watching; it was a television drama based, at its core, on relationships. And the meaning of life, man.  Sorry every single loose end from 4 seasons ago didn't get tied up, people who were all angry.

Clearly, I'm still up for the debate.

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November 30th, 2011 at 10:15 PM | Outstanding comment. I (Score:1 Redundant)
03 Blue 07
03 Blue 07's picture
Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 1729

Outstanding comment. I remember getting into all kinds of internet debates with my friends over the finale. For the record, I liked it; the show was about people and relationships, not about a solving a fucking puzzle. It wasn't a giant, 5-year game that you were watching; it was a television drama based, at its core, on relationships. And the meaning of life, man.  Sorry every single loose end from 4 seasons ago didn't get tied up, people who were all angry.

Clearly, I'm still up for the debate.

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:25 PM | Look (Score:1 Overrated)
willis j
willis j's picture
Joined: 08/11/2008
MGoPoints: 178

Regardless of who we would play we need to win a BCS game. We have not won a BCS game yet. Like it or not the BCS is the system we have. Recruits look at this stuff. It's a plus in my mind if we get in.

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:41 PM | tom brady (Score:2 Normal)
qed
Joined: 09/09/2009
MGoPoints: 373

tom brady may be offended (Orange Bowl).  However, looking up BCS stats the embarrassing stat is that Ohio leads ALL Div-I in BCS wins with 6!  Kinda weird I never here that though when people talk about the glories of the SEC over BIG.  So yeah, BCS is big, helps conference pride, and puts us perhaps closer to Ohio's stats.

Q

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November 30th, 2011 at 8:04 PM | Ok (Score:-1 Overrated)
Ziff72
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 5147

Hoke seems to be doing ok with that top 5 class without that BCS trophy.   I don't think kids give a rip about some lame Sugar Bowl trophy

Kid priorities in no particular order

National Championship, tits, Can you get me to the NFL, tits, ass, Can you get me to the NFL, tits

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November 30th, 2011 at 8:57 PM | Playing in a BCS bowl isn't (Score:5 Normal)
raptor
raptor's picture
Joined: 04/11/2009
MGoPoints: 1545

Playing in a BCS bowl isn't about this year's recruits. Its about the kids who are in middle school and freshmen in high school who will someday be studs for a college squad. They have grown up knowing Michigan as the team that struggle bussed their way through the last few years, not as the team that won the '97 championship when they were still fresh out the womb (if they had even been born yet). They don't know the tradition and past excellence like we do. So playing in a BCS bowl game gives them exposure to the Michigan of now. Even if its over a small school like Houston a BCS game still carries a lot more weight to the general public than a lesser bowl.

EEB c/o 2014

www.amassingmiles.blogspot.com

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November 30th, 2011 at 11:05 PM | Tits? (Score:3 Normal)
bjk
bjk's picture
Joined: 11/27/2009
MGoPoints: 830

Then it has to be New Orleans.

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:25 PM | The Sugar Bowl (Score:2 Normal)
LSAClassOf2000
LSAClassOf2000's picture
Joined: 01/07/2011
MGoPoints: 8745

"So to those of you that want to go to the Sugar Bowl can you explain why?" - Ziff72

Ratings.

Selling the Michigan brand to others.

???

Profit. 

"Funny isn't it, how naughty dentists always make that one fatal mistake."

Follow the random tweets of a Michigan alum - http://twitter.com/#!/LorneEC3

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:42 PM | Tangible (Score:-1 Normal)
Ziff72
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 5147

1. Ratings-Why do you care about ratings

2. Why do you care about selling UM's brand?

3. Profit- I'm pretty sure it has been proven you don't make anymore money going to a BCS game.   You share the money and are locked into a ridiculous ticket scam.   I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's most profitable to be part of a conference that gets 2 conference bids but not be 1 of those 2 teams.

Man I hate this system.  Where's my playoff.

I will say it is interesting how the system has brainwashed us into thinking about  things like prestige and brand and not being in a playoff game.

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November 30th, 2011 at 7:57 PM | Honest Answers (Score:1)
LSAClassOf2000
LSAClassOf2000's picture
Joined: 01/07/2011
MGoPoints: 8745

1) I don't really, but that's why we would be a realistic candidate should we end up eligible.

2) Why not? It helps my alma mater in some small  way. 

3) That's exactly what the BCS is about, for better or worse. Mostly worse.

Personally, I would be intrigued more by a playoff system, but sell that idea to the bowl committees. The current BCS contract, I believe, runs out in 2014. Perhaps there is a playoff-oriented replacement worked out by then. I would imagine all the major conferences would want a say in how it would work though. 

"Funny isn't it, how naughty dentists always make that one fatal mistake."

Follow the random tweets of a Michigan alum - http://twitter.com/#!/LorneEC3

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November 30th, 2011 at 11:08 PM | Maybe (Score:1)
bjk
bjk's picture
Joined: 11/27/2009
MGoPoints: 830

an uninspiring 2013 BCS matchup combined with a break in one of the NCAA antitrust court cases will be enough to get a playoff system off the ground.

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