How much would that impact Luck?
Did "expert" Joe Schad say that??
Joe Schad: this coaching search :: Kathy Bates: boobs everywhere. Just disastrous.
Stanford better not land a higher profile coach than we do.
C'mon DB...market us, baby...
I think M is a tougher sell than ever. All these coaches know the mess RR is leaving -- lots of pressure, lots of baggage. Add to that Michigan winters, a tougher B10 than ever, and you've got coaches scratching their heads.
A move to the West Coast would be attractive to a lot of coaches, I should think.
Damn. Times have changed.
I don't like this strange new world.
Or Peterson just wants to stay West, and the Stanford job with a roster full of [the evildoer's] kids was too much to pass up. Death to the 49ers.
with your insinuation that RR left a huge mess but rather it might be that the UofM brought this mess upon themselves with their outcry of RichRod never being a "Michigan Man". I would venture to say that RR is leaving the program (aside from the off the field distractions) in a better state as far as players than Lloyd did when he left.
some coaches don't want a fish bowl, with fickle fans. RR was aiming at a moving target Michigan Man indeed.
What ever happened to his new Chief Marketing Officer. He should have conducted some market research for DB. By market research I mean read mgoblog.
...DB should have hired me to be CMO! Wow. He blew that hire, too!
I had an interesting thought regarding the Michigan opening . . . Maybe this job isn't as great as all of the Michigan fans think. I mean, after what Rodriguez went through and the exposure of the Michigan fan base being divided and very difficult to deal with, maybe a current college coach at a good school would have to think twice about leaving to go to Michigan - at least more so now than was the case 3 years ago.
I think a lot of people see Rodriguez as a great coach that didn't fit at Michigan and they wonder why he didn't fit . . . Was it because his personality and changes he brought are just so different than Michigan's fan base? Or was it because the Michigan fans are just too demanding and have unreasonable expectations? I have a feeling its the latter, but it could be just that Rodriguez didn't fit and maybe another coach would be a better fit. But I know for damn sure that the next coach better have a huge ego (Miles) or really want to be at Michigan (Hoke). Otherwise, why should other guys (Petersen, Patterson, etc.) think that they would be treated any differently?
It doesn't help that the AD has taken steps to make it less attractive, from creating this delay sure to hamstring the next coach to (presumably) not casting a wide net. Would we have been able to hire Muschamp if we moved before the UF job opened? Gotten Harbaugh in November? We are seemingly only looking at candidates that never would have been interested and doing it far too late.
There are a lot more negatives to this job now then there were 15 years ago. People aren't exactly moving to the state in droves, and while Ann Arbor's local economy might be insulated, I'm just not sure that the state of Michigan that desirable a landing spot for many people. Maybe I am underestimating the value of Michigan Footbally Tradition in the whole coaching search process, but I am worried that we may need to temper expectations since it is becoming clear that everyone is not going to jump at this job if offered.
We just ran a great coach with a proven track record out of town after only three years of incremental progress--but not before dragging his name through the dirt. It's no wonder to me why no one wants this job.
This whole thing makes me sick.
Dave Brandon is a boob.
I don't know whether DB is a "boob' or not, I think I'll wait to decide. And actually I agree with you that we ran a good coach out of town, my point was that landing a really good coach with a proven track record might be more difficult then some people think. RR had circumstances at his other job which made it easy for him to leave and come here.
Yeah, true...sorry for the cattiness. I've been really pissy lately.
And Dave, if you're reading, I'm sorry for calling you a boob.
Boobs are good things.
Continuing with the "We are ND" theme, I think this is a great job for the next candidate. This team is set up to win 9+ games next year and the coach who does it will be viewed as a savior after the last three years. I'm much more worried that we hire a Weis/Hoke who looks great in the short term only to see the program slip a couple years from now than I am about whether or not Michigan is still an attractive job.
As for Rodriguez, I think the drama outweighed the progress and Brandon realized he didn't want him as the long-term face of the program going forward, even if year 4 showed the kind of progress Rodriguez's supporters saw coming. If that is the case, it makes sense to fire him before he gets a chance to prove himself with this team (making him almost impossible to fire) with the hopes you can bring in somebody who will be embraced by the fans and have immediate success. If DB does that he gets an A+. If he hires some scrub or a guy who is basically Rodriguez-light from the college ranks, the move makes no sense.
Any coach will see some improvement with age and experience of players.
5+ million dollars. DB has said money is no object...any person would be drooling at 5 mil plus crazy built in advantages (facilities, budget, budget, exposure, budget).
If given the choice between coaching at Michigan for $5 million or coaching at Stanford for $3 million I'd choose Stanford all day. The amount of stress and time put into the Michigan job outweighs that of a Stanford. In other words, the earnings vs. stress-load ratio is much smaller at Michigan. It's the same as a lawyer at a big law firm versus a smaller firm - sure there's much more money at the big firm but I'll take less money and not work on the weekends. But that's just me. Maybe I'm just an unmotivated slacker . . .
Jimmy could not get out of there fast enough. Why on earth would anyone want to go there and coach. Jim was begging for people to show up for the games. The people don't give a shit about FB up there period!
I'm amazed at how much weight people place on perceived fan enthusiasm. Intangibles (where the SF Bay area trounces SE Michigan if you have a pile of $) never get discussed.
Maybe a coach would see that (small crowds) as a challenge.
And, as others have noted here, who would willingly attach himself to the idiotic MICHIGAN MAN wing of our fan base? Not everyone ...
who wouldn't be interested in that job? andrew luck for one year would be too hard to pass up.
just like denard for two years would be too hard to pass up, right?
You don't make a career move based on one player and that you'd have for only one year. Who by the way could go down at any moment, a la Sam Bradford. That's just a terrible way to make a decision like this.
Unless someone can make an argument that Chris Petersen is somehow different from Dan Hawkins, I'm not sure why we despair not getting him. Is there any evidence suggesting he would do better than Hawkins?
I'm tired of everyone making the Dan Hawkins argument. Every coach is different. I can't guarantee Petersen would be better, but it's very possible he could be an amazing coach at a bigger school even though Hawkins wasn't.
For example: John L. Smith left a successful Louisville program for MSU. Failure, right? Does that mean his predecessor was automatically going to be a failure when he tried the same thing? Ask Bobby Petrino.
Other BSU coaches that left and are underwhelming:
- Dirk Koetter
- Houston Nutt
Seems like there is a pattern for the last 3 coaches to leave there after success at BSU... I don't think it's unreasonable to have doubts about Petersen as well.
In retrospect, Hawkins looks like a basketcase. Peterson, by all accounts, is a different animal. The guy doesn't even return calls to gauge interest. Hawkins jumped as soon as he could. And for a program that was already declining.
Yes, they both coach(ed) for a team that has significantly more resources than all or most of the other programs in their conference. But compared to Hawkins, Peterson looks like a sharp, classy guy.
It's presumptuous to make this judgment about him. It's like saying, do we have any evidence suggesting that Carr would do any better than Mo?
I know them well. The primary reason Hawk took the Colorado job was to turnaround the program and be a viable candidate for the next Notre Dame opening. That had been his life long goal, one that is clearly out of reach.
As far as Pete is concerned, he is probably the most creative coach in college football. He, and his staff, constantly coach his teams up. Watch a BSU game with all their 2 star or zero star athletes. They know how to tackle, while we do not. Aside from his comfort level in Boise, his biggest flaw is that despite the huge success of the BSU program, he is unable to effectively recruit the top athletes and has very little exposure and inroads into the classic geo areas in which we recruit. For this reason alone, he is not a viable candidate for UM. He is; however a great guy and a terrific person and has no character issues whatsoever.
Hawkins doesn't have a strong X's and O's background. He was never a coordinator at the D-1 level but rather more of an administrator and rah-rah guy under Dirk Koetter (the guy who built that program and had a much better than he gets credit for spell at ASU). After a 4 loss first season, he hired Peterson to come and run the offense and they had continued success. When Hawkins got to CU without that security blanket, he was changing his offense every year and seemed to have no clue what was going on (Hey, Missouri beat us running the spread, let's do that shit next year!).
Peterson may not be great at his next hire, but I guarantee he's better than Hawkins.
Um, is Joe Schad the bearer of all bad news Michigan?
Yes, and he's so joyfully cavalier about it all!
My goal in life now is to take a dump in Joe Schad's Cheerios and watch him eat it. Sorry, Joe, but you've got it comin to ya.
high aspirations for ones life, eh Nomadic?
I have accomplisjed every other goal I have set for my life, so I am now upping the antie. Life without a purpose is a just wasting time. I just think Joe deserves some bad news too. "Hey,uh, Joe. Yeah, there appears to be a floater in your Cheerios. . . . . . . . Stop laughing. I wasn't kidding. There is a very large turd touching your whole grain oats - and spoon."
Schad can't even spell Petersen's last name correctly, I wouldn't put too much faith in anything he says.
Schad's not referring to the UM professor of psychology?
Want to die...
This entire situation (so far) is like watching a car wreck except I'm in the car. I will withhold outright panic and screaming UNTIL the new coach is named but with every day that passes my fear threshold rises.
couldnt have said it much better +1 if i could
hope for the best...white knuckling the dashboard in preparation for....well...im hoping for the best
It's crazy that Stanford was down for so long given that they're a private school with absurdly rich alumni. They could keep a high profile coach extremely financially happy for a long long time and it's completely private.
Yeah they have zero fan support, which blows. But if it is true that they pretty much matched the 49ers offer from a money stand point... dang.
I couldn't care less about Peterson, but if Hoke gets interviewed at Stanford and ultimately takes THAT job, we will truly become the butt of every late night talk show joke.
In my opinion, Hoke > Miles....but it's like saying cat poo smells better than dog poo.
....who? If we lost out on both, I think my panic-meter starts to register off the f-ing scale. I could possibly - POSSIBLY - keep myself contained if it were one of those two, or a smattering of other names.
Personally, I'll be delighted if they both wind up elsewhere. For different reasons, of course ...
Midwest guy, similar offense, long body of work. He's older, so M could begin searching for a replacement before January next time.
It appears that we are getting to the heart of Bo's "Michigan Man" comments here. There has been so much talk about what a Michigan Man is exactly and I think we are seeing it here first hand. Brady Hoke WANTS to be the coach at Michigan...that is Bo's definition of a "Michigan Man." Dave Brandon stated in his presser that many people have called to express interest in the job over the year, yet he had to hire an outside firm to find viable candidates to the position? At this point, unless there is something that we do not know about, I say hire Brady Hoke. This nonsense about getting rejected by every prospect that is publicized may be the nail in the coffin for not just this recruiting class, but many more to come. IF no coach wants to take a job in AA, why in the world would top recruits want to come? Is it the spoiled Diva-esque fanbase? Is it the administration? Whatever the issue is, top coaches do not appear to want to come to Michigan, and we are ALREADY the butt of jokes everywhere in the College Football world around the nation. In a world where perception is reality...DOOM!!! I am very underwhelmed with David Brandon, he is no better than Martin...I hope he proves me very wrong. <exhale>
I think hiring the outside firm is pretty routine. They use similar firms for pretty much all medium-high profile jobs at the university, fwiw.
With a level of plausible deniability..."I haven't spoken with Michigan about their job", especially for those coaches where there isn't an established back channel.
Les is going to come home! Three years late but he will come home and restore order ie smash mouth FB. Thats what I feel now that we lost out on Jim.
"... restore order ie smash mouth FB ..."
Right -- SMASHMOUTH never fails. Look at how Wisconsin routed puny TCU. Also, did you see how many points Dantonio's SMASHMOUTH ran up on that small, speedy Alabama defense? Finally, look at that gimmicky offense of Oregon's. Never gets anything done ...
Maybe you're kidding. Maybe?
Alabama's defense might be speedy, but they are not small.
When did Alabama get small? They just recruit superior talent compared to our little fellas
also that alabama team that is unbeatable was beaten by les miles' LSU team... just sayin. i would much rather have les miles (proven) than brady hoke (relatively unproven)
WTF????? not sure that I would even want Peterson but wtf. He would not even return our calls, but he is willing to talk to Stanford. Did the world turn upside down, and I missed the memo.
Peterson has always made it clear that he and his family prefer to stay on or near the West coast, and all of his major recruiting ties are there. Stanford would appear to be the ideal long term destination for this very talented and classy coach. I would take him for the Wolverines in the proverbial heartbeat, but it ain't in the cards.
I don't think we know if he won't return our calls. We only know he seems to have been willing to take Stanford's call. Everyone remain calm.
Not looking to good, guys. This is why I kept saying we should've kept Rich Rod for another year. It was clear that Harbaugh did not want to come here and there were no other A-list coaches out there that were both available/interested and with a better track record than Rod. Now, we'll probably end up settling for a B-List coach which will have to carry the tag of "savior" and will, unfortunately, not live up to our crazy fanbase's expectations which will then result in the merciless devouring of his life.
A bunch of you wanted RR gone... you got it. Now let's see what we end up with. I don't want to be the one to - yeah I do, "I told you so"
Hopefully something unexpected happens and a white knight emerges out of the misty night sky (getting poetic here). The more likely scenario, Hoke and Miles, both not very attractive choices. But hey, whoever it is, let's support him 100%. If history has taught us anything its that unrelentling harsh criticism proves detrimental to the environment our program needs to be succesful.
We had a suddently b list coach getting us b list results the last 3 years. I am sorry but it is the truth. The man was in way over his head here. Make no mistake the mess he left in terms of size, athleticism and depth on both sides of the ball is definitely a problem in attracting a new coach.
Brandon made the right move though. We were digging a deeper hole as evidenced by our results against the good teams on our schedule.
for when the "anyone but Rodriguez" guy comes in and the hole gets still deeper . . .
B-list? Hardly. He turned down Alabama before he came to Michigan.
Do we really think Alabama would offer Rodriguez a position post 2008?
Hardly. You've got to be kidding yourself. And who was more proven at the time that Martin was willing to hire?
B List recruits? I guess Denard / Roundtree / Martin were B list recruits...right.
You've been on the agenda of change for quite sometime now, so I guess your comments don't surprise me. But B List, I think not.
Oh by the way, if i'm reading the quote in the bottom of your signature, I would assume you are 'Noise'....
Recruiting would have been crippled for another year, and does anyone think that the double digit losses to the good teams are going to turn into wins next year?
At the end of the day, coaching hires, like draft picks, are somewhat of a crapshoot unless you hire a huge name that is at a huge program - and how often does that happen?
A great coach in a weaker conference can turn into a mediocre coach in a strong league (RR, Hawkins).
And believe it or not, a guy who has mediocre results in a weak conference with weak talent can work wonders once he's in a place with a recruiting base and talent. It's just that identifying him can be tougher - thats where a guy like Brandon comes in.
Sure, you probably increase your chances of getting it right by hiring a guy with a good track record, but it's no sure thing.
There are qualities that may not be readily apparent to us that make a great head coach.
(this was a long way of saying "let's not freak out if we don't know much about the guy who is hired")
I would like not to freak out, but as a Michigan fan I can't help it.
Look, Rich Rodriguez is a great man and put up with a lot of crap here - I have a lot of respect for him and wish him the best in all of his future endeavors. The results didn't come quickly enough and he was a divisive figure among Michigan alumni and fans, so DB made the call to let him go.
Yep, he could go somewhere this season (probably next season) and build a great program again - but guess what, he's not coaching at Michigan. Everyone who laments Rich Rod's firing has a right to do so, but not letting go of the fact that he's not here is the exact opposite of "supporting [the next coach] 100%."
Go ahead and pat yourself on the back for supporting the head coach of Michigan - just remember it's not Rich Rodriguez anymore.
With all the venom that has been spewed around this program and the lack of talent or depth on defense, why would one of these high profile guys want to leave their programs that are competing well? Especially after what just happened after a 3 year window for RR.....
I don't buy this....coaches are typically high ego guys and most believe they can turn it around. Using your logic, noone would ever take jobs for bad NFL franchises (Oakland, Tampa Bay before Dungy, etc.,). Take Larry Brown in the NBA for example, that was his thing. Coaches who think they need to ride someone else's coat tails are bound to fail. Most guys want a chance to come in and get their own recruits anyways. If the fan base, alumni, and administration give the coach enough space to allow the process to move forward we might be much better off. On the other hand, if large numbers of the fan base cry for a coaches job when he goes 9-3 or 8-4 (Carr), or only gives a coach 2-3 years to install a new system (RR); WHY would a coach want to come in? We are becoming ND because as a fanbase we are the spoiled brat Divas...we are Michigan...this isn't supposed to happen...blah, blah blah. You reep what you sow and we, as a fanbase, are experiencing the fruits of our labor.
It was more of a question than a statement. But the second half of your post is what I have been telling everyone around me. The only way coaches succeed right out of the box and win that fan support is walking into a team that has the depth and talent to work with and being able to adapt a system to what you have. Those two reason are why RR failed to get support at the start and what doomed him in the end. Tressel had talent when he got to OSU, they were just underacheving under Cooper. He had that to lean back on when he made his opening speech and called out Michigan, which won him instant cred with their fanbase since the were in there own losing streak against Michigan.
As we run out of alternatives?
Another problem with DB's timetable is that the longer he waits, the more reluctant a prospect will be willing to screw his current team/school. We talk of needing a coach to secure recruits, but imagine what happens to the school that has to conduct an unplanned job search close to signing day.
At this point, im completely on board with an out of left field hire, even if its a gamble. I would rather take a chance than just accept a mediocre hire.
Keep this in mind when you think about Stanford and Harbaugh:
- Harbaugh year #1 (2007) - 4-8
- Harbaugh year #2 (2008) - 5-7
- Harbaugh year #3 (2009) - 8-5
- Harbaugh year #4 (2010) - 12-1 (first year with a repeat starter at QB)
Now look at Rodriguez:
- RichRod year #1 (2008) - 3-9
- RichRod year #2 (2009) - 5-7
- RichRod year #3 (2010) - 7-6
- RichRod year #4 (2011) - N/A (would have been first year with repeat QB)
Obviously the big difference was that Harbaugh arrived after a 1-11 season and everyone was thrilled with annual progress. RIchRod arrived after an era of success and went backwards that first year. I still think that if Carr had retired a year earlier or a year later things would have been different. A year earlier and the next coach gets a ton of senior/junior talent. A year later and everyone watches Carr win 5-6 games in 2008 and realizes it is time to rebuild. In both cases the new coach would have a far better chance of success.
How do you know for a fact Denard would start next year? He had no loyalty to Tate,. If Devin Gardner took advantage of this year and improved he could've just as easily benched Denard. You have no basis in fact for Denard to be next years starter.
Let's just make the right choice here...if it takes a bit more time, fine, but don't rush just to get the job done. It will take even longer to fix a problem than it would have to just have done the job right the first time.
Does anyone else wonder what coaches think about the '11 and '12 schedules? We've got a fairly brutal schedule in '11 then you add Alabama in '12. I wonder how enthusiatic any coach would be to come into a situation where a team got mauled by all of it's tough opponents the year before and then has two brutal schedules up coming. Add to the fact that our fanbase/alumni doen't seem to be the most realistic folks in the world. I'm starting to wonder who the hell would set themselves up to fail like that.
Oh, if you listen to everyone around here, next year's schedule is freaking cake.
Not to mention this "Michigan Man" thing... any non-M related coach would have to be absolutely nuts to come here. So we are left with Miles or Hoke. Crazy/wins or Boring/mediocrity. M would be a career killer for Hoke. For Miles a swan song or retire...