This is a good, informative title.
"Indefinitely" sure doesn't sound like a short term thing.
This is a good, informative title.
"Indefinitely" sure doesn't sound like a short term thing.
Could it be grades? It's right about now that students would be getting the last of them delivered.
Hoke left an opening for Stonum -- "if he fulfills all of the commitments to the legal system and our program"
Hopefully this is a "strike one" offense. That would be a big blow to our offense this fall.
is it really though? we have quite a few receivers and stonum will be missed, he wasnt elite
Really? Hemingway, Roundtree, and Stonum are a great trio of receivers, but the dropoff after those 3 is steep, in both talent and experience.
Odoms says hello
Without Stonum, we have practically zero receivers who are threats to beat a defense deep. Hemingway can go get jump balls, but he's also not very fast.
Do you think it would likely be Jeron Stokes who would be left to fill that void? Do you think he can do it?
Nothing I have seen from Stokes suggests that he can be a big play receiver. He typically looks like just another guy out there, although I do like him better than a couple of our other receivers.
Odoms has some ability.
Gallon hasn't done anything as a receiver. I'm not sure why you would include him in this topic.
It's not off topic as far as completely irrelevant. However, Gallon is somewhat irrelevant, since the discussion was (IIRC) about the team lacking a deep threat. Five-foot-eight kids who look like undersized running backs aren't typically deep passing threats.
Not to be a dick, but I don't know if Denard can throw it deep with any kind of consistency. That's what hurts the most.
That's a good point. Which is why I think Devin Gardner fits better in this offense, although I don't expect Denard to get benched.
/s. The fact that DR's arm doesn't fit the O doesn't make this less a loss. The long ball is a part of the Borges playbook regardless of QB. Likely DR won't be short on the deep routes though. It's too early to say how this is going to play out.
As someone pointed out above, it's tough to beat a defense deep when a) the routes aren't called and b) your quarterback is very inaccurate on the deep ball. Regardless, Stonum is probably the fastest receiver on the team and was originally recruited by a staff that knew a little something about wide receivers. If there's a deep threat on the team, he's probably the biggest one.
If there's a deep threat on the team, he's probably the biggest one.
I think Hemingway is more deserving of that title. Stonum may be faster, but Junior's better at actually making a play at the ball.
Stonum was on probation last year and violated said probation, forcing disciplinary acts from RR. Technically this would be strike 3.
This is completely hypothetical since I don't know the severity of his offense, but if it is indeed another offense similar to a DUI, Hoke needs to come down hard. We laugh at Mark Dantonio's discipline with repeat offenders, so we need to lay down the law on repeat offenders. I really hope it's not that bad, but I'm not too optimistic.
The question is, how hard is hard enough? Apparently straight-up NCAA violations warrant five games. Michael Floyd got one. Beating up some dude in a Colorado bar and evading arrest gets you two practices. What's a second DUI worth? Three games? Eight practices? No wings on his helmet?
I mean whatever happens, there are going to be people who aren't happy unless he's kicked off the team, and there's going to be people who think it's too harsh. It'll never be just right. We should try for an MGoConsensus.
Thats not kicked off though, right? Although if it actually was a DUI, this would be his second, which would probably lead to some harsh punishment.
Oh damn, I was hoping to see his toughness talk in action before I saw the disciplinary talk in action.
This is at least his second such offense.
Ive been searching for info on this all morning i saw the tweet from chengelis last night. Big blow if he really is done for the season. Which it sounds like he is.
Indefinitely suspended in May does not imply done for the season. I mean, seriously? We don't even know what the offense was. For all we know he failed biology and has to retake it, and has been suspended until he gets a passing grade in Spring class. C'mon now. Let's not inflate things until we know what we're looking at.
Even if it is an alcohol-related offense or something, he'd probably miss two or three games, do his court-ordered community service or whatever, and be good to go.
"Indefinitely Suspended" is different than "Asked to leave the team."
There seems to be a path back to the team (at least at this point).
The implication is that it has something to do with breaking laws or probation. In the ESPN article Quotes Hoke as saying that Stonum will have to "fulfill all his commitments he has to the legal system and our program."
No guessing game from me, but I'm confident it has nothing to do with failing a class.
Hopefully the punishment will fit the "crime". No exceptions, no matter how valuable to the team you are.
Hopefully this can be corrected by some 5am running of the stadium stairs, Carr style.
Edit: Saw the update. Ouch.
See ya! If he is in fact guilty of two DUI's...bye! Dont let the door hit you on your way out. Dont want that on this team.
You just killed the OSU Schadenfreude fest I was enjoying today.
Well darn. UM Football had been riding such a good wave of momentum and positive news. DIsappointed in Stonum for getting into this situation; as a senior, he should know better.
more from angelique:
@chengelis: Hoke left an opening for Stonum -- "if he fulfills all of the commitments to the legal system and our program"
that if you fulfill your committment to the legal system, that IS your punishment from your team...
Maybe he's looking up to Braylon a little too much.
Hmm, if this was MSU, he would have to miss the first day of fall camp.
Tell me WTF does Stonum's suspension have to do with MSU ? Real stupid on your behalf. Now neg all you want.
you better think about this one for a bit there sport
he is incarcerated at the time.
fooling around with this at all. Short ropes.
The first time he was arrested, RR suspended him for just one game. Doesn't that seem pretty soft or is it typical?
Well, in East Lansing that would have been enough to suspend you from two spring practices. *wristslap*
I am going strictly on my memory, so I may be wrong, but I think Brian talked about 1 game being more or less standard for a 1st DUI offense when Michael Floyd got in trouble a while back.
Dantonio thinks the punishment is too harsh. .
If this rumor is actually true that it is indeed his second DUI, then he needs to find somewhere else to play. I am sorry if it offends anyone, but I want our program to be held to a high standard. Allowing repeat offenders on such serious offenses the chance to continue to play is a reward for poor behavior. I understand that they are 18-23 year old kids, we need someone to hold them accountable and either they will become men or let them move on.
We cannot complain when other programs turn a blind eye to such behavior and not want better from our program. As an alumnus it is things like this that I hate to see.
@chengelis: Hoke left an opening for Stonum -- "if he fulfills all of the commitments to the legal system and our program."
@chengelis: Hoke: "We will provide the appropriate support and counseling in order for him to learn and grow from this mistake."
It looks like he left himself some wiggle room with "and our program". He could decide that Stonum won't be reinstated unless he does X, Y, and Z in addition to serving any legal punishment. In that case I hope he makes it clear to Stonum what X, Y, and Z are even if he doesn't make this public. That said, if this is indeed a second serious offense I would not be inclined to give a player a third chance. In any case I hope Stonum can get his act together.
If it is his second offense I agree that it's serious. Whether it's serious enough to warrant a dismissal is another question; I don't think I would have a problem if he were allowed to stay with a big time suspension.
Either way, this won't be comparable to Dantonio and his "discipline" system.
It's debatable whether or not this should affect decisions about punishment, but I think it's worth noting that Stonum is a senior. There is no "find somewhere else to play" for him. If he gets booted from the team, his career is done.*
[*Exception being a transfer down to D-II.]
All the more reason he should know better and keep his nose clean. I don't feel the university owes him a shot at proving he can play at the next level he earns that by doing the right things both on and off the field. If this is his second offense for DUI and with his lack of follow through the last offense he deserves to play DII.
Again, I'd say it is debatable whether Stonum's senior status should matter or not. There was a lot of discussion about Blount's year-long suspension because people said it effectively ended his shot at the pros (and he did in fact go undrafted despite his obvious ability to play at the pro level - though he did get picked up as an UFA), which is a much harsher punishment than the year-long suspension was intended to be.
And it's not about the university "owing" him something. It's about taking into account the unintended consequences of the punishment. If the punishment is meant to end his playing career forever, then that's what it is, but I doubt that would be the intent.
It sounds like I'm arguing that Stonum should be let off easy because he's a senior, but I'm mostly playing devil's advocate. I think his lack of follow-through on his probation is pretty damning, that he doesn't seem to really care or take the situation seriously.
Moralizing aside, I love Stonum, and I really hope this gets resolved in a way that includes both him being punished but still seeing the field (for totally selfish "I just want to see him to play" reasons).
What's your opinion on Donte Stallworth?
So is the consensus opinion this is something new? I hope it's just Hoke saying 'get your shit together, son, and make yourself right for your past offenses.' I hope this isn't something new.
I am just imagining him reading it and saying 'I have to try that, and that, and that... '
We need to have a high standard program. If a player messes up then the penalties need to be strong to help discourage others from future mistakes. Stonum is a valuable member of the team but for the long term it is best that he be punished.
may be failure to live up to his probation responsibilities. It may be too early to assume it was a second DUI.
Hoke may just want him to get take care of his old mess first.
I hope this is the case, and if it is I give Hoke credit for this. It shows her cares about the players and program.
FWIW @chengelis just tweeted that Hoke will leave a spot for him 2 come back if he "fulfills all of the commitments to the legal system and program"
Just as much as hurting us at receiver this hurts us at the return game. We've had some problems lately in that area and having a returner that is returning is needed.
Stonum, you idiot!
Common now, we don't even know what he did. The kid is in college, I know I did some stupid shit in college that would have gotten me suspended for a game or two. Give him a break, people make mistakes and he is paying for it as you can see by these tweets. He doesn't need random people he doesn't know making this situation any harder for him.
This is the first big test Hoke will face. How Hoke handles this will be interesting and he'll likely set a benchmark with it.
guys that i worked with at the stadium is good friends with stonum, and lets just say that he didn't really learn a lot from the first time he got in trouble... there were a few stories of stonum being at a bar and sitting on the bar doing shot after shot after shot...
I could care less how many shots he does, hes in college. He should realize that his full ride scholarship to a prestigiuous university is at stake when he deicdes to DRIVE afterwards.
So you care at least a little bit...?
I meant I could care less about the drinking part, obviously the driving part is concerning.
You're missing the joke, my friend.
Bah, I realize it isn't literally correct, just a stupid phrase that I use. Appreciate the chart for clarity haha.
Always wondered when and why "couldn't" care less was replaced by "could" in the popular vernacular. It is obviously completely senseless but must have seemed cool to someone.
I remember back in grade school wondering about the phrase "couldn't care less". It always seemed to me it implied the speaker was insinuating that they were in fact contemplating caring a lot "more", since they couldn't care "less". Then again I spent a lot of time lying on my back watching clouds.
Apparently how "I couldn't care less" turned into "I could care less" is a nagging, unsolved mystery.
Personally, I'd put my vote behind good ol' fashioned laziness. "I could care less" is one less syllable. Kind of like how here in Austin people call the campus thoroughfare, Guadalupe St., "Guad-a-loop" rather than "Guad-a-lu-pay."
Irregardless. I hate it.
Apparently "irregardless" is a lightning rod for hate among English language wonks. The 3rd Ed. of the American Heritage Dictionary has this to say about it:
the label ‘nonstandard’ does not begin to do justice to the status of this word...it has no legitimate antecedents in either standard or nonstandard varieties of English
As with many social blights, it may have originated in Indiana (or at least Indiana is the source of one of the earliest verified uses of it). It has been argued that "irregardless" evolved because of its phonetics. Specifically, the emphasis of "regardless" falls on the middle syllable (i.e., the "-gard-"), as opposed to "irregardless" whose emphasis is on the first syllable (i.e., the "ir-"), making "irregardless" sound more emphatically negative.
It's a good place to start looking for the originator of this offensive word, yes.....
I can see this now, "This blight on the language may have started in Indiana, possibly near Chesterton......"
My biggest problem with it, like "could care less", is that it makes no sense.
he didn't learn anything from getting in trouble the first time, and all i was doing was relaying a story that was told to me...
What worked for the British?! I'm so confused and am left on the edge of my seat!
... it sounds like the kid MAY have some more serious concerns than just having a couple too many drinks before heading home.
Irrespective of football, hopefully he can get the support he needs if it is serious.
I'm not sure why people are making this out to be more than it is when there is NO proof into what actually he is suspended for... Until we actually no that it is his second offense or just not living up to his responsibilties this kid will be fine. He is one of our best receivers on the team right now. Like it was said he is our elite deep threat. You can throw gallon and Odoms in there but Gallon is a slot receiver and a returner. I trust that Hoke would not have left a spot for him on the team if it was his 2nd DUI in 4 years. Can't we give him the benefit of doubt until we hear what actually happened?
If he was indeed suspended, then I don't know why we owe him the benefit of the doubt. He obviously did something wrong.
If it's serious enough to involve the "legal system" (Hoke's words) then the team for which he plays shouldn't matter. He's got to pay the piper.
Stonum might be the second most productive Kickoff Returner the program has had since the Howard/Alexander consecutive eras ended. Behind Steve Breaston.
If he is gone, who do we have? Gallon, who was actually good at KOR a year ago, save for two big gaffes: The Penn State muff out of bounds at the 2 and a fumble when plastered by Wisco; Odoms, who has periodically been back there in that spot throughout his three years; Dileo, a lot of folks thought kick returns of some sort would be his ticket to an impact on the field in Ann Arbor, does he get this job fulltime?
I think we'd be excited about Gallon in this role had he not made key mistakes a year ago. But, it was his first year on the field and with the experience something like the Penn State thing doesnt happen this season. None of the three with experience have shown the explosiveness of Stonum in this role, however.
Gallon actually looked really good returning kicks (unless he fumbled them).
Boubacar Cissoko also did a pretty good job, but I think he's busy.
I would like to see Dileo and Vincent Smith get a shot back there returning kickoffs.
The Gallon mistakes don't bother me - those can be overcome with even a modicum of experience. I also think Dileo could be good. We'll be okay at KR.
Well, Hoke said "legal," "serious" and "counseling." So one could conclude that Stonum either committed another offense or messed up with his probation. Bad either way, though I guess a second offense would likely be the worst of the two.
Let's just say, for argument's sake, that it's one or the other. What's a fair punishment? I say it has to be more than the ol' one-game suspension against a cupcake team. That's how hypocrites like Dantonio would handle it. Thoughts? --
I'm not overly concerned about how MSU or OSU handle their in-house problems. I'm worried about how Michigan handles theirs. Just my opinion, which could be wrong, but it seems to me Stonum has had multiple chances and has apparently blown many of them. I would think a multiple-game suspension is probably in order, if for no other reason than for Hoke to demonstrate to the rest of the team how transgressions will be handled. I don't want to be unfairly hard on Stonum because I don't know all the details, but from the outside looking in it appears some strong discipline is in order.
Unfortunately, Angelique works for the News and not the Freep, so there's no point wondering whether or not the story is even true.
Hope Stonum finally gets the wake-up call this time.
I believe that a DUI is a misdemeanor, but two in five years is a felony. Could this have something to do with the harshness of the penalty?
It would be best for both us and him. He obviously doesn't have his life straight right now if it involves the legal system a second time, so the best way for him to do that is get away from football. As a fan, I don't care how good he is, he needs to go. Why keep him around if he's going to be such a headache for the team, especially when he's a senior? Let him go and get his life straight, and let an underclassmen step in atry to fill the whole and develop. I don't want someone who's dumb enough to get into two major incidents with the law when he's going to one of the greatest universities, academically and athletically, representing us.
I commend Hoke for how he's handleing this though. If this was his second violation under Hoke, I'd say no questions he's gone. But the first one was under RR, so Hoke is probably doing his due diligence, seeing what the kids is like, and seeing if he can help him better than RR did.
Could this have anything to do with the roomate of the player smoking weed and sexual harrasment charge?j/w
Unless Stonum plays defense and has high school friends from the state of Michigan.
There is a mysterious pain in my groin region...
Given the amount that we trash State for their "punishments", especially on repeat offenders, I hope Hoke deals with this like the class act man he was brought in to be. This means that if this is a second DUI for Stonum, the punishment may be dismissal from the team. It would be a serious blow to our WR core, but if Stonum repeatedly puts himself before the team and gets in trouble like this, we're better off without him. We'll find somebody to step up and take his place.
On the legal side, I don't care if it's a felony or a misdemeanor, driving under the influence is one crime that there should be no tolerance for. You're choosing your convenience over everybody else's lives, and the punishment for it should be severe.
How many of us HAVEN'T done it dozens of times? Not to excuse the kid, but let's not get all high and mighty.
Coming from a Pastor, none the less.
You frame this as if you think there is nothing wrong with it. I'm sure 90% of us on here drank underage, but if you think driving drunk is ever okay, then you need to seriously reevaluate the way you think.
We all make mistakes, but drunk driving is no small matter. I have lost far too many friends to driving drunk, and even though it isn't uncommon people drive drunk, I wish that wasn't the case.
I'm going to see them next week when they come to Detroit, hopefully Tyler doesn't break my arm.
He'll probably just break his...
Any way you could post up the info for their show? I'd like to make it...
They were sold out when I checked for a friend last week, but they moved the venue to the Majestic from the Magic Stick, so that opened up more I believe.
OFWGKTA Majestic Theatre Detroit, MI Mon, May 16, 2011 09:00 PM
Has anyone heard when the official punishment is likely to come down?
another DUI he needs to be gone. period.
that being said if its anything alcohol related it needs to be seriously considered. as he seems to have trouble with the law. and we cannot satnd for that.
no one person is above the team, or the law.
I work with Judge Creal quite a bit and she is very fair and light when it comes to youths. If it turns out that Stonum has some more jail time, he must have really messed up. Sucks, I was really looking forward to Denard hitting him on beautiful PA's.
before the season, but I don't think it will happen. Sounds like the issue is pretty serious.
One strike IMHO is too much for DUI. But I understand giving everyone a second chance.
But no third strike.
We shall see how it works out.
Another reason why I regret not taking Lucien last year.
spring game... oh wait this is Ann Arbor.
He got a DUI ! Destroy him and his future! Ban Alcohol!
If it's his 2nd DUI I'd say he's doing a pretty good job of destroying his future all by his lonesome.
I was in court for one of Stonum's probation hearings this summer. Creal was pretty close to having him serve a full 10 days for his failure to work off the 10 days of community service in the 2 months she had given him to complete it. She ended up only having him sit for the weekend, but Daryln certainly didn't demonstrate much personal responsibility and for his failure to make up all 10 days (he was also 45+ minutes late in showing up - not wise). He had a public defender and nobody from the team was with him (at least non-player) which I thought was odd. I dunno if it would violate some bullshit NCAA rule, but I'd think the (old) coaching staff would at least want to make sure players already in legal trouble were fully complying with the court.
Case in point on the anti drinking judges run amok.. D'Augustini (sp).. Stonum fucked up but come on guys, he wasn't caught dealing heroin.
I personally think drinking should be allowed for younger kids, but only under the supervision of their parents. This kills cool factor a little bit, and kids might actually learn how to drink from people who are not 21 years old.
I also think a DUI comes with pretty strict penalties, too. So I think a DUI and getting kicked off the team would be too harsh, but I'm not familiar with his history. Sounds like he should be getting something pretty harsh...
2nd DUI has been confirmed. Sorry to say, that should be it for him.
Even so, I hope he can work his ass off, make amends and stay on the team, if only for his benefit.
It must have been cinco de mayo night, I saw him at charley's that nite...
That's too bad. A second DUI, plus a couple probation-related infractions, leaves Hoke in a put-up-or-shut situation. He can pull a Dantonio/Kelly and give lip-service. Or he can do the right thing. Stonum, sadly, deserves way more than some lame suspension from practice and a game or two; he should be facing, at minimum, a 5-game suspension. Frankly, he's lucky if he's still got a scholarship after this. I doubt Hoke wants to be seen as a Dantonio.
There is a thin line for Hoke to walk here. I agree with a minimum suspension. At least 5 games, and that's IF he can turn his life around/fulfill his obligations.
At the same time though, I am against dismissal. He needs his team more than ever right now. Ideally, football will keep him in school and working towards a degree. Take that away from him and he's likely just another hard luck story.
I want my team to represent the school well. And maybe Stonum has lost that privilege to represent on the field. We'll see. But part of what I want out of my school is to see that we don't abandon a young man just because he can no longer contribute to a revenue sport.
I hope he has the opportunity to graduate, and that is best done by not removing him from the team. But at the same time, I think a standard for discipline has to be set. And I think Hoke gets that.
...a second DUI will almost certainly carry some real jail time. As I read Hoke's statement giving DS a window of opportunity, I believe that DS is going to have to do some serious AA-type work after he serves whatever time he'll have to serve, and really show he has the tools to stay on the wagon. Two DUIs when you have so much to lose really indicates a real drinking problem, as other posters have pointed out.
On a lighter note, here come's our first tally in this year's Fulmer Cup!
It's his 2nd DUI, unacceptable! We're no better than MSU keeping their amatuer Kimbo Slices on the team if he is allowed to stay.
BTW what I do know is that Round 1 of Hoke vs DB begins!
Hoke is wanting another chance for him, DB says he's gone.