"Cheering For Cheaters" column on OSU-M game

Yep, "investigated"

I don't trust any NCAA investigation farther than I can spit. I'd like you to tell me with a straight face that YOU don't think that OSU knew Clarett was dirty.

And OJ didn't do it.

I think it is safe to say when such an egregious violation is found, the likelihood of other violations materially increases.  Its not determinative, but instructive no?

For me, Tressel (author of a fine principled/virtuous leader book) is kind of like the well-followed Congressman or super-church leader who rails against Gay marriage and immorality and accidentally ends up  highway rest stop knocking on the stall of the boy next door  Great coach, but because of his hypocrisy and its impacts on innocent kids, a morally repugnant man who should not be lauded .

That makes no sense. Why cheat for just 2010? Was there something remarkable that year? C'mon. Seriously? 2010 is where they got Caught. There's been shadiness going on at Ohio since the Clarrett days- easily!

12-0* is better than 6-7, right?

Even though that 12 has absolutely 0 meaning to the world other than you went through your typical cakewalk OOC, Got 2-3 games handed to you by blown officiating (ex: MSU, Wisconsin, Purdue) and still it means nothing except to Ohioans.

I welcome the rivalry back next year, where both teams have something to play for, no "not going bowling" or "Denard's down" stuff. 2013 will prove o be the beginning of the true renewed 10-year war

Ohio State has more self reported incidents since 2000 (375) then any other NCAA school in front of Oklahoma (224) and Florida (112)-all FERPA.

Ohio State officials said they expect more violations because they police themselves well and have the most sports teams in the country at 36. But more than 75 percent of Ohio State's violations -- 292 of them -- were committed by 17 teams, including football and men's basketball. Florida and Oklahoma each sponsor a total of 17 teams.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content//local_news/stories/2009/05/31/FERPA_OSU.ART_ART_05-31-09_A14_D4E14K6.html?sid=101

2002

In the summer of 2002  (Cooper Recruit-Tressel's first year under Tressel's watch), Derek Morris arrived in town from North Carolina as one of the country's top football recruits. He left Columbus weeks later with rumors circulating that he didn't have the necessary academic credentials to play football.

Records (FERPA) show that boosters, coaches and members of the Touchdown Club of Columbus gave Morris and his family:

• At least $1,175 in cash.

• Help securing a $3,000 loan.

• More than $500 in airline tickets.

• Housing and expenses.

• Legal advice.

• Outside tutoring from a woman who later filed a criminal complaint against the family for nonpayment.

• A job for the recruit's father.

2003

That's a nice car/job/wad of money. Maurice Clarett sits out the season after claiming his expensive dealership car was robbed of over 10k in stuff. Questioned by the NCAA, Clarett refuses to give straight answers to questions 17 times because "half the team would've been suspended, and it would've been worse for everybody."
Clarett also claims his grades were total fiction, he got phantom jobs, that coaches would tell him to talk to certain people who just happened to drop thousands of dollars they didn't care about, that he got free cars and free rent. Ohio State fans discount Clarett as mentally unstable, which he is.

That's a nice tutor. Clarett's grad student tutor confirms the total fiction grades bit of Clarett's story to the New York Times. The internal response was lovely: "Goings attacked the teaching assistant's credibility, saying he found it difficult to believe her because she had a history of psychiatric problems and displayed what he called erratic behavior." Goings calls the tutor a liar and fires her after she meets with him about another player.

Adidas Private Plane-In May 2003, the shoe company adidas paid for a football player's trip to Los Angeles. The athlete flew on a private plane to the West Coast. Once there, he was treated to free meals, lodging, tickets to a Lakers basketball game and adidas apparel. OSU removed the athlete's name and the punishment he received, citing the law protecting education records.

Paid for autographs at a golfing event-Also that May, an undisclosed number of Buckeyes worked at a convention where they were paid $130 each to sign autographs and play golf. The athletes temporarily lost eligibility for taking improper jobs and had to give the money to charity to regain eligibility. OSU's report does not identify the athletes or the booster who hired them because of FERPA.

EXTRA:http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1919255

2004

That's a nice job. Booster Robert Q Baker gives Troy Smith $500 for a fake job, getting Smith suspended a couple games and himself dissociated from the program. A couple years earlier Chris Gamble also worked for Baker's company.

• Tressel has used the term "violation of team rules" to explain the suspensions of at least 10 players. Such infractions can range from missing curfew or class to criminal behavior. One of those team-rule violators was Troy Smith, who missed two games as a penalty for accepting cash from a booster. Another was involved in an academic-fraud investigation by Ohio State. University officials found no wrongdoing but censored the public report so heavily that it was impossible to know what happened.

2005

AJ Hawk is a depression-era farmer. The apartment of AJ Hawk and Nick Mangold is robbed. Items declared missing include $1400 worth of movies, a $500 Gucci watch, and $3000 in cash, presumably kept under the bed and away from those fat cats at National City.

Santonio Holmes is taken care of. Former NFL agent Josh Luchs outed dozens of players in the SI cover story that served as promotion from his upcoming book, but he'd long stopped paying when he visited Santonio Holmes in '05:

"We met [Holmes] outside the football building," Luchs wrote, "and he said, 'Listen, I want to save you the time. We don't need to meet. I've been taking money from [an agent] the last couple years, and he's been taking care of my family too.'"

Hotel Theft-In October 2005, two football players stole a $60 alarm clock and a $10 hair dryer from the Hilton Minneapolis. The team was in town to play a game against the Golden Gophers. Their names were blacked out by OSU because of FERPA

2006

Chariy Event Autographs-In February 2006, an undisclosed number of football players attended a charity event and signed autographs without permission. The athletes lost eligibility for a time but did not miss a game because it wasn't football season. Their names were removed from the record because of FERPA

2007

• Football coach Jim Tressel said before the national championship game against Florida in 2007 that one player could miss the game because of an injury. Records (FERPA) show that one benched player had failed a drug test four days before the game, which disqualified him from competition. That same player also missed the entire 2005 season

2010

Tatgate. Five Ohio State players are found to have sold memorabilia in exchange for tattoos. Jim Tressel is given a credible tip about it in April and does nothing.
That's a nice car II. Terrelle Pryor has been pulled over for traffic violations three times in his Ohio State career. All three times he was in a car registered to Auto Direct, a local dealership. The guy running the dealership is named "Kniffin"—not a good sign. He also has signed OSU memorabilia all over his walls.

Ongoing

You can't throw a rock on eBay without hitting an auction for the gold pants charms handed out after Michigan victories from as recently as 2009—which means there's a fair chance the players in question are still on the team. Between January 1st, 2000, and May 2009 Ohio State reported 375 secondary violations, most of any D-I school.

Ohio State Football Player Arrests Since Tressel Took Over (only through 2008... All 2009-2011 arrests not accounted for:)

July 26, 2008: Ohio State defensive tackle Doug Worthington was arrested over the weekend and charged with operating a vehicle while intoxicated. According to OSU campus police records, he was charged at 3:13 a.m. Saturday on Woody Hayes Drive. Worthington, 20, is a starting defensive tackle and a redshirt junior who started 11 games for the Buckeyes last season. This follows the arrest in early July of OSU defensive back Eugene Clifford, who has since transferred to Tennessee State. If Worthington's case follows past precedence, he may have to face a hearing before a faculty and student panel. That could determine whether he faces a potential suspension from school. He will at least feel the wrath of the coaching staff during preseason practice and face a demotion on the depth chart. Whether he misses any games this season is yet to be determined.

• July 7, 2008: Eugene Clifford, a backup cornerback for Ohio State and former Colerain High School football standout, is facing assault charges after allegedly punching two men in the face. According to police, Clifford hit two Holy Grail employees who were trying to break up a fight early Friday at the Corryville tavern. This is not the first time Clifford, 20, has been in trouble with the law or his team. In December 2007, Clifford, then in his first season with the Buckeyes, was suspended for an undisclosed violation of team rules. His suspension forced him to sit out of the national championship game against LSU. While a senior at Colerain, Clifford was cited for marijuana possession in March 2007. He paid a $105 fine in that case, though the player’s father, Eugene Clifford Jr. later denied the drugs belonged to his son. Clifford, who is facing two misdemeanor assault charges, is scheduled to appear in court Monday morning for his arraignment.

• Sept 24, 2007: Police arrested an Ohio State University football player Monday night on the city's north side. According to the Franklin County Prosecutor's Office, Antonio Henton was arrested and charged with soliciting a prostitute on North High Street and East 6th Avenue at about 8:30 p.m., NBC 4 reported. Henton is the third-string quarterback for the Buckeyes. Henton later pled guilty to a lesser loitering charge.

• April 2, 2006: Offensive tackle, Alex Boone, was cited for allegedly driving under the influence early Sunday morning. According to a statement released by the university, Alex Boone, 18, will be placed in the school's drug and alcohol counseling program, NBC 4 reported. Police said Boone was arrested and charged after a two-vehicle crash. The crash occurred at the intersection of West 10th Avenue and South College Road at about 3:30 a.m. Head coach Jim Tressel said that Boone, a first-time offender, will not be suspended from practice or games, in compliance with departmental policy. Boone could face additional sanctions from the coach. "I consider any drug or alcohol offense to be a very serious matter and will treat this incident accordingly," Tressel said. "The last thing we told the team after practice yesterday morning was to set their clocks ahead an hour when they went to bed at 10 p.m. last night. I am disappointed that message did not get through to everyone." Boone played in 11 games last season as a true freshman.

• May 21, 2005: Defensive lineman Tim Schafer is charged with disorderly conduct after police twice had to break up early-morning fights between him and another man. The 6-foot-5, 295-pound Schafer, who started five games as an offensive lineman last season, and the 5-8, 200-pound other man were both bloody, had bite marks and smelled of alcohol.

• May 19, 2005: Redshirt freshman running back Erik Haw was cited after a university police officer said he saw him smoking a marijuana cigarette while standing outside a dormitory. Haw, expected to compete for the starting tailback job, faces a court appearance on Friday in Franklin County Municipal Court. Ohio State officials said he would enter a drug education program and undergo frequent testing.

• May 11, 2005: Redshirt freshman kicker Jonathan Skeete was suspended following an early morning arrest on an outstanding warrant for drug trafficking. Ohio State football coach Jim Tressel has suspended kicker Jonathan Skeete for violation of team rules. According to police reports, Skeete was arrested early Wednesday morning by University Police on a warrant for trafficking in marijuana. Skeete tried to sell just under 200 grams of marijuana to an undercover officer.

• December 21, 2004: Albert Dukes, a freshman WR was arrested in Palm Beach County, FL and charged with two second-degree felony counts of lewd and lascivious conduct involving a 12 year old girl. Tressel permits Dukes to travel with the team to the Alamo Bowl. The charges are later dropped, when the girl’s parents choose not to have their daughter testify in court.

• October 23, 2004: Lydell Ross is arrested at Pure Platinum gentlemen's club on Bethel Road in Columbus for attempting to pass fake money to a 24-year-old woman at the club. The police report said the woman was an entertainer. Tokens are used at the club to pay for beverages or private dances. Ross was suspended for two games and the charges were later dropped.

• June 7, 2004: Ohio State University police arrested tight end Louis Irizarry and charged him with Criminal Trespassing at Neil and Tuttle Park Place. An officer pulled over his vehicle and a records check showed he had been banned from campus unless he got special permission from the university.

• May 17, 2004: Freshman Punter A.J. Traspasso is arrested again for underaged drinking. This time, it was by Perkins Township police near Sandusky, Oh.

• May 5, 2004: Freshman Punter A.J. Traspasso is scheduled to appear in Municipal Court at 9 a.m. Wednesday after being charged with underage drinking. The all-state punter was cited after the Spring Game along East 15th Avenue near campus, authorities said.

• May 1, 2004: Sophomore backups Louis Irizarry and Ira Guilford are arrested and charged with robbery after a student is assaulted and his wallet is stolen at 3 a.m. They are held in Franklin County jail through the weekend. Both plead innocent to the robbery charge, with Guilford released after paying a $25,000 bond. Irizarry is held pending a hearing to determine if he had violated his probation from an earlier assault conviction.

• April 29, 2004: Ohio State fullback Branden Joe was cited last week for an alleged misdemeanor open container violation, according to Columbus police.The incident allegedly happened last weekend in the parking lot of a campus-area convenience store.
Joe, a Westerville native, was found guilty of drunken driving in 2002 after officers found him drunk and sleeping in his car on an exit ramp along state Route 315.

• Nov. 16, 2003: At 3 a.m. after a win over Purdue and six days before the Michigan game, wide receiver Santonio Holmes and quarterback Troy Smith are charged with misdemeanor disorderly conduct after a fight in a parking lot on campus. A window in a car is kicked out and one woman reported her jaw was broken. Holmes is held out of the starting lineup at Michigan but returns to play most of the game. Holmes also started in the Buckeyes' Fiesta Bowl game. He pleads innocent to the disorderly conduct after the team returns to Columbus. The disorderly conduct charge is dismissed against Holmes on March 30, 2004. Smith is found guilty of the charge.

• Oct. 27, 2003: Louis Irizarry is charged with three counts of first-degree misdemeanor assault after three people sustain minor injuries during a fight in a Park Hall dorm room. Irizarry is suspended two days later. He is found guilty of one charge each of assault, negligent assault and disorderly conduct and pays $404 court costs and is put on probation. He is later reinstated to the team and is listed as the second-team tight end on the 2004 spring depth chart before he is suspended indefinitely after the May 1, 2004, arrest.

• June 2003: Sophomore tight end Redgie Arden of Ohio State pleaded innocent Monday to his second drunken driving charge in 15 months. Arden, 21, was arrested at 5:54 a.m. Sunday on a charge of operating a motor vehicle under the influence, the Ironton Police Department said. In March 2002, Arden pleaded guilty to a drunken driving charge in Ironton. He was sentenced to three days in jail and fined.

• April 2003: Running back Maurice Clarett reports that a car he has borrowed from a local used-car dealer was broken into and thousands of dollars in cash, CDs, stereo equipment and clothing was stolen. The car was in the parking lot at the Woody Hayes Athletic Center and Clarett calls police from a telephone in Tressel's office. Clarett was later charged with lying to police about the value of the stolen items and is charged with misdemeanor falsification of the police report on the theft. Clarett pleads guilty on Jan. 14, 2004, to the reduced charge of failure to aid a law enforcement officer. He is ordered to pay the maximum fine of $100 and serves no jail time. The charge does not appear on his criminal record.

• Oct. 30, 2002: A reserve long snapper on the Ohio State football team is charged with felonious assault for allegedly beating up a man. Kurt Wilhelm, 20, a sophomore walk-on, surrendered to police Tuesday. He is the younger brother of Buckeyes linebacker Matt Wilhelm. An arrest warrant was issued for Kurt Wilhelm following the incident at 2:15 a.m. Saturday in an apartment complex. A university official said coach Jim Tressel had been aware of the incident Saturday, which is why Kurt Wilhelm did not dress for the game against Penn State. But the official said the university was still looking into the details of what happened.

• Oct. 13, 2002: Linebacker Fred Pagac Jr. is charged with persistent disorderly conduct. Pagac was arrested at 3:45 a.m. after police said he was intoxicated and had a role in a fight involving two women outside a campus-area bar about 12 hours after the Buckeyes' homecoming victory over San Jose State. The police report said an officer told Pagac to stop but he continued to fight. Pagac was suspended for the team's next game at Wisconsin. Pagac pleaded innocent. In December, before the team's national championship game against Miami in the Fiesta Bowl, Pagac was acquitted in a jury trial.

• Aug. 17, 2002: Defensive lineman Quinn Pitcock is charged with underage drinking in his hometown of Piqua. He is suspended from the team for the three weeks of preseason workouts, then worked out with the team and is not held out of any games. He pleaded no contest to a reduced charge of disorderly conduct.

• Aug. 24, 2002: Flanker Chris Vance, the Buckeyes' second-leading receiver from 2001, is suspended from the team before the season opener for what Tressel called a violation of team policy. Vance was with the team on the sidelines but did not play against Texas Tech. He rejoined the team for practice the following week but did not play in the second game against Kent State. Athletic director Andy Geiger later said Vance's unspecified violation took place the previous winter. Vance returned for the third game and ended up as the team's fourth-leading receiver. It was later revealed that Vance was arrested for under aged drinking at an off campus night club.

• July 29, 2002: Wide receiver Angelo Chattams is investigated for the alleged theft of a set of golf clubs from a sport utility vehicle in West Carrollton. Prosecutors approve but do not file a theft charge, permitting Chattams to enroll in a program for nonviolent, first-time offenders and avoid a charge. He was excused from the team to deal with the legal matter, then reinstated and played in the season-opener. He does not play again for the Buckeyes.

• July 26, 2002: Police find Branden Joe, a sophomore fullback, asleep in a car on a highway ramp near campus. The police report says he refused to take a Breathalyzer test. He was suspended for the three weeks of preseason camp and the team's season opener against Texas Tech, then returns to the team although his playing time is limited by injuries.

• April 27, 2002: Linebacker Marco Cooper is arrested hours after the Buckeyes' annual intrasquad scrimmage and charged with felony drug abuse and carrying a concealed weapon in his sports-utility vehicle. Cooper pleads guilty to two charges in November and is put on probation.

• March 2, 2002: Tight end Redgie Arden is arrested on a charge of drunken driving in his hometown of Ironton. The redshirt freshman is found guilty and is sentenced to three days in jail and fined. Suspended indefinitely from the team, he does not participate in summer workouts before the 2002 season but is reinstated before the start of the 2002 season and played in 11 games. He is a member of the 2004 team and is listed on the two-deep roster at defensive end.

• Nov. 15, 2001: Quarterback Steve Bellisari is arrested two days before the Illinois game for drunken driving. Tressel suspends the Buckeyes' three-year starter indefinitely and then reinstates him to the team three days later. A senior, he practiced with the team for the Michigan game but did not play, then came off the bench to play most of the team's Outback Bowl loss to South Carolina. He later served a weekend in jail.

• March 21, 2001: Cornerback Derek Ross is arrested on charges of driving without a license and providing false information to police, giving an incorrect name when pulled over for speeding. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail. He is suspended from Ohio State's 2001 spring practices, then played most of the 2001 season, leading the Big Ten in interceptions and earning second-team all-conference honors. Left team to make himself available for the NFL draft a year early.

• Jan. 18, 2001: Tressel is hired.

Other “incidents” that have happened while on Tressel’s watch:

- May, 2003: Chris Gamble and 9 other players are ruled ineligible by the university for signing autographs at a health care group's convention. The players were paid an hourly salary for working at a booth operated by a central Ohio health care company at the Ohio Health Care Association's convention May 5-8 in Columbus.

- October 11, 2003: Robert Reynolds chokes Wisconsin QB, Jim Sorgi, knocking him out of the Badgers' 17-10 win over the Buckeyes.

- Fall 2003: NCAA investigates Ohio State players for possible academic ineligibility. Maurice Clarett is the focus of the investigation. Chris Gamble’s name was mentioned a few times at the beginning, but either nothing was found against him or the entire investigation was turned against Maurice when a teacher admitted that Clarett got preferential treatment. She was then was later fired by the university. Clarett was guilty of 14 violations of the ethical-conduct bylaw and two violations of receiving preferential treatment or benefits because he is an athlete. Clarett was suspended for the entire 2003 season.

- Fall 2004: Maurice Clarett blows the whistle on tOSU.

- December 20, 2004: Troy Smith is suspended from playing in the Alamo Bowl for "violating team and NCAA rules and standards."

-February 16, 2005: Offensive coordinator Jim Bollman is reprimanded by Ohio State for trying to arrange for a car and a loan for a recruit and for getting him a tutor. Tressel also received a letter of admonishment because he is Bollman's supervisor. Ohio State determined that helping the recruit get a tutor for a college entrance exam in 2002 was a secondary NCAA violation. Tressel and his staff were given a reprimand in 2001 for providing a jersey to a prospect.

- July 20, 2005: A published report Wednesday said Ohio State athletic officials were looking into a possible second NCAA rules violation involving quarterback Troy Smith. The Canton Repository reported that Smith recently attended a quarterback camp held by Tennessee Titans quarterback Steve McNair. Smith, who was one of six college athletes at the camp, was the only one whose university is on academic quarters rather than semesters. According to the newspaper, if Smith missed a class to attend the camp, he violated NCAA rules. Head Coach Jim Tressel confirmed to the newspaper that the university is looking into Smith's situation but said the school's compliance department is not finished with its inquiry.

- July 8, 2005: Brandon Maupin was suspended for the 2005 season. In December, it was revealed that Maupin owed the city of Columbus $1,943 for 36 unpaid traffic tickets. Officials would not elaborate on the reasons for Maupin’s suspension for the entire 2005 season other than to say "he failed to meet team responsibilities."

- Dec 6, 2005: Police said that an apartment belonging to Ohio State football players A.J. Hawk and Nick Mangold was burglarized in the days following the team's win over Michigan. According to a Columbus Division of Police report, the burglary occurred sometime between Nov. 22 at 6 p.m. and Nov. 23 at 8 p.m. Hawk, Mangold, and a third roommate, Jonathan Thomas, told police that their apartment in the 100 block of West Norwich Avenue was broken into and about $3,000 in cash, $1,425 in movies, two laptop computers, a $500 Gucci watch, two Microsoft X-Box games valued at a total of $500, a Sony Playstation game valued at $250 were taken. Police were not told about the crime until Nov. 28, according to their report.

- Dec 22, 2005: Offensive lineman Andree Tyree was suspended for violating team rules and will not play in the Fiesta Bowl on Jan. 2. No other details about the suspension were revealed Thursday. Senior Tyree has played in 12 games in his career at Ohio State, including five this season. It was later revealed that Tyree had failed his third drug test.

- Mar 7, 2006: Ohio State kicker Jonathan Skeete returned to the team as a walk-on following his suspension and arrest on drug trafficking charges. Skeete was suspended from the school and team when university police arrested him in May. He was convicted in October and sentenced to a year of probation. He reapplied to Ohio State when his suspension expired, and he was readmitted. He is a convicted felon. In October, he was found guilty of fifth-degree felony drug trafficking. He was sentenced to a year’s probation. The second charge was dropped when Skeete pleaded guilty to the first.

- Aug 9, 2006: Ohio State tight end Marcel Frost was suspended for the upcoming season for violating team rules. Athletic department officials declined to comment on the nature of the violation. Frost will remain on scholarship and will be eligible to rejoin the team next season, school spokesman Dan Wallenberg said Wednesday.

- Dec 20, 2007: Ohio State suspended backup cornerback Eugene Clifford for violating team rules. According to media reports, Donald Washington was also suspended, but an Ohio State spokesperson had said that was not the case. On Dec 28, cornerback Donald Washington was declared eligible to play in the Allstate BCS Championship Game, OSU athletic director Gene Smith said Friday, according to the Columbus Dispatch.

- Apr 11, 2008 - Defensive backs Donald Washington, Eugene Clifford and Jamario O'Neal are in limbo right now, being held out of practice for unspecified reasons but also not officially suspended. Wearing sweats and workout clothes, the trio ran laps and did other conditioning work while the Buckeyes practiced yesterday. It was rumored that all three failed their most recent drug tests. Washington, O'Neal – Suspended for 2 games
Clifford – His second offense in six months - gone for the year.

- Apr 16, 2008 - There's nothing figurative about Ray Small's fall from grace -- he wears it on his back. As part of his punishment for a mystery transgression, the Ohio State receiver this spring was stripped of his No. 4 and given No. 82. The mystery transgression was rumored to be bad grades.

comparable situation is Pete Carroll's USC. Got caught for one thing, but everyone and their mother is pretty sure there was more to it for the entire duration of his tenure (at least).

Also: Al Capone got busted for tax evasion, but does anyone think his criminal activity ended there? Not sayin, just sayin.

Steve Fisher.  Won a national championship, recruited a bunch of fabulous players and then violations were discovered.   But we don't act like he's a hero!   Even now, 15 years later, people are conflicted about honoring the team and the Coach.  

Jim T. did a great job coaching football.  That's not the question.  It's just that the fans and the University, I think, should at least give the illusion that the violations meant something!  Why couldn't they honor the 2002 team in 2017?  Why now? 

Come on, the whole thing was absurd....  And I can honestly say I don't think we would have done the same thing Ohio did. 

Obviously it's tough for them to not cheer Tressel after he brought them out from under our boots. I have no issue with that. But I do agree with you that the timing of their celebration is just absurd. They bring back the guy who put them on probation to a party while on probation. Arrogance at its finest. The worst part is that the NCAA doesn't have the balls to do a damned thing about anything anywhere.

No neg from me for discussing MGoPoints, but complaining about it isn't going to make anything better and will in fact make people want to neg you more. I suggest just taking your lumps and rolling with it, especially since moderation doesn't count for MGoPoints anyway. I personally think that you're a pretty respectful and valuable contributor to this board, and would like to see you continue to post.

Also, someone please neg me for discussing MGoPoints myself. Kthx

Protip: 12-0 meant a lot more than 8-4.