My opinion? Refs suck.
Charge of Block - what say you?
I think we are going to the National Championship game on Monday.
...is what I think.
Would anyone like to join me in thinking this?
Me! Me! I would like to think this, so I do!
Screw it... Not now... I still need to embrace the fact that we are in the National Championship game. No controversy... SUBS
It's a charge, because that's what the ref said. Always a crap shoot, went our way this time.
just like in baseball, it isn't a strike or a ball until the umpire calls it. It can be in the dirt, but if the ump calls it a strike, it's a strike. If the ref calls it a charge, it's a charge!! 'Nuf said!
I don't know what people are talking about, that seemed like a pretty easy charge call. Dude was out of control and Morgan was in near-perfect position
Charles Barkley can suck a fat baby's dick.
I say that God wanted us to win and made the ref make up for the constant mugging Syracuse put on us pretty much all the 2nd half.
Live and full speed it's obviously a charge. Slow motion replay maaaaaaaybe it's a block.
This. I stood up and called charge before the ref did. Obvious charge was obvious.
This. No doubt when it happened that it was a charge. On slo-mo, I could see it going either way. I'll say this...Brandon Triche should be driving under control in that situation and should not even remotely put hmself in a position to get an offensive foul. 'Nuf said.
Exactly right. In real time, no question it was a charge. Watching it in slo-mo 12 times, it could go either way. But Trice is recklessly in the air and not looking at the defense at all. His lack of body control forces the ref to make that call. Do we now need to look at every other call, or non-call, and break down the film to get a total "bad call count" for both sides? It is asinine to take this "one bad call" approach to analyzing the game, the talking heads should know better, and bad on Boeheim for talking about the officiating.
It was 50/50 and Syracuse was fortunate to even be in the game.
This x 1000
Morgan beat the shooter to the spot and was set. Charge.
It was a 50/50 call but I felt the refs screwed us on a couple calls in the 2nd half, and gave us two big make up calls (this being one of them).
Charge.. Charge.. Charge .. Fuck you.. Charge.. We are in the title game!!!
but gets called a charge more than half the time.
Exactly it was a block. He slid into place once the shooter was already in the air. If your questioning a call as a fan of the team it benefitted it probably was a bad call.
If he had established legal guarding position before Triche left the ground (hard to tell) he is allowed to slide laterally as long as he maintains vertical space and doesn't move into the offensive player. I think it's clear that Morgan was straight up and that he didn't move into Triche. If Morgan established position before he left the ground, it's an easy charge call.
It did not win Michigan the game. There was time left, Michigan made the plays post-call. It's simply ridiculous to claim that call was why Michigan won.
It's a Monday night game!
We got it. Game over. We won!
Block, but hardaway got hacked on a play as well. One call does not make a game. Defense improved, cuse can't score and we win!
By rule I think it is a block. But rarely the right call is made. Doesn't matter calls go different ways for 40 minutes
Before the offensive player (with the ball) becomes airborne, the defender must have two feet on the floor, be facing the opponent and be stationary to draw a charge. Otherwise, it should be a blocking foul.
Secondary defenders (help defenders) moving forward or to the side are also in violation and those should be blocking fouls.
Contact that is “through the chest” is not de facto proof of a charge. The rule in its entirety must be considered before determining a foul.
In some cases, it appears a defender is being rewarded solely for being outside the arc, without considering the other aspects of the rules.
You do not have to be stationary, nor do you have to have your feet on the floor. That is a misconception.
By definition, a charge occurs when the offensive player "pushes or moves into a defender's torso." The defender obviously has to have his torso facing the offensive player and should not be the one to initiate contact, but there is no stipulation that he must not be moving at all.
Here's an article with citations to the rules:
It was a charge.
Particularly Artcle 4 sections a and d.
FWIW, it looked like a clear charge real time to me. In slo mo, I can see where he may be sliding a bit but Triche was out of control and I think that's why it was called a charge.
OK, I stand corrected about the feet on the floor - I'm almost positive I've have heard referees say it's not an issue, but maybe I'm misremembering. But I disagree with you about (d) - Morgan was in a legal defensive positive position. There is nothing illegal about moving laterally.
In any event, Morgan beat him to the spot (and was outside the circle) and Triche was out of control. It could have been a no-call, but to call it a block would have been a reach.
and I'm probably super-biased too. If I was a fan of Syracuse I'd probably be 100% sure the other way.
But, compared to the Duke flops I've seen over the years - this actually looks like a charge to me too...
Agreed. Morgan made two moves to his left and started his second when Triche is in the air. Also glad the game is over and its national title game time.
Well, Morgan was still moving when Triche was in the air, so it was obviously a TITLE GAME ON MONDAY NIGHT BITCHES!!!1!
You can defend the call as a charge much more than you can defend it as a block. Therefore, charge.
Clearly a charge real time. It really wasn't even close. When they slowed it down 100x it could have maaaaaaybe been a block.
Completely agree, in real time, it was clearly a charge.
I love the charge.
At least till Monday.
I don't even know what a block or charge is anymore.
It's been called a charge a million times.
Sucks that the refs are going to be blamed for both Louisville and Michigan winning even though both teams had leads and the other teams would've had to make shots and get at least one more stop.
It could have gone either way, so I think a no call would have been appropriate.
I think you can make the case either way, but what I felt ultimately made that a block was the guy make ZERO effort to twist to get to either side of Morgan even though he clearly should have known Morgan was likely going to beat him to that spot.
If he shifted at all and hit Morgan more to the side, that's a block or a no-call I think, but the way he proceeded to knowngly crash right into the middle of his chest I think sealed his fate.
They're always right
I felt it was a wash. He threw up a brick, we got the rebound....
Aaaahhh, proofreading's for the offseason. It was a charge.
A sham of a mockery of a charge of a block.
Don't spot us a double digit halftime lead and count on the refs to bail you out.
My opinion? Block. But there are a half dozen calls like that along a razor's edge in every game. One call never decides a game. I can only assume the only ones 'really' complaining about it are SU (legit) and Sparty (Lil brother complex). So to anyone who complains, I ask, shall we go through every film of every championship game team and dissect every call that could have gone the other way? Shall we put every call even in this game under the microscope? Grow up. SU only has them self to blame for not making shots. We have our self to blame for it even being close for not making shots as well and missing free throws.
Amen. Even if it is a block no guarantee of anything. Too many other calls.
I think a lot of calls could have gone one way or the other, and this is just one of many. It's absolutely ridiculous that ESPN has latched on to this play as if makes a difference. One other 50/50 call going our way earlier in the game, and this call could've been irrelevant. That being said, I personally think it should've been a no call, but refs seem to think all drives that end in contact must end in a foul.
Same thing with previous game - WSU only had a chance to make a prayer at the end and they blame the held ball call.
But then again hardaway got fouled at the end without getting a call. So did Trey on a pull-up jumper in the lane. Too many plays in the game to focus on one just because it occurred with 0:20 left
And again, that wasn't nearly as controversial as the jump ball in the previous game, but has everyone forgot about that already?
in a 40 minute game, one play does not make the game. no matter how much you may want to discuss the impact of one play, its the compilation of every play and every minute that makes a difference. this call may go one way or another, but in the end Michigan wins.
I thought Morgan got there a split second late, but the fact that Triche was a little out of control made it easy to call the charge.
It sucked for me. I wanted to win without any bullshit like this. I honestly thought it was a block in slow-mo, charge in real time, and it kind of took away from my happiness when Morgan finally finished a dunk. But if we would've made our damn free throws --- wait, where the hell was Stauskas? He didn't play the second half, and he finished with 0 points... Sonofabitch must've been eating subs...
You must lead a miserable life.
Charge - guy was way out of control.
And how many free whacks did they get on McGary's face?
Charge. Yeah, he moved slightly to the side, but that's OK - you don't have to be 100% stationary. You have to be in position, and outside of the circle, and he was.
I say both sides had a lot they could complain about, but in the end we had five more points than they did, and we're playing for it all on Monday night
an argument could be made either way. I don't think anyone could watch it at full speed and say for a fact what the correct call was. whatever the ref called is the correct call because it is a judgement call.
Who cares? We won.
Really do wish they would do away with charges. It would've been so much sweeter to see Morgan play D and swat away the layup...
Do away with charges?
Nah. Pretty sure every team would exploit that. When its a charge, its a charge.
Better yet: do away with layups. Only jumpshots. Uncontested jumpshots. Matter of fact, no defenders of any kind. Now THAT'S how you solve controversial foul calls!
I'll be honest, you confuse me.
Please use "/s" when necessary.
You can't do away with the charge call. How could anyone play defense if the offense is free to knock them down?
Officials need to be more consistent applying it, but it's an essential rule.
With that said, I can arbitrarily pick a number of questionable calls that, had they gone Michigan's way, would have made the block/charge irrelevant.
His chest was square to the shooter for about 5 seconds before he barreled into him. He is allowed to move laterally to maintain legal guarding position.
Yep. There is a huge and unfortunate misconception by many that a charge only occurs when the defender is stationary. Blasting through someone's chest is almost always a charge, regardless of whether ones feet are moving. You beat someone to a spot, you have a right to be there.
Triche himself just said in the presser that he should have pulled up and shot or passed, because he saw Morgan there. He said if it wasn't a charge, it should have been a no-call. Given LeVert picked up the rebound, no effect on the game.
I want to discuss the ~20+ other blocks Syracuse made at Mid-Court or ecspecially on the baseline where they were actually slapping guys or shoving them out of bounds. Those weren't called.
Why does it seem that a close call at the end of the game, is always deemed to decide the game. If Syracuse was not allowed to push, shove, slap, hack and what ever you want to call what they did to McGary's face. This game isn't even close enough for that call to matter. If were going to discuss officiating then, discuss every bad call or no call. Otherwise whats it matter?
In general the officiating was horrible the whole game, I don't mind no calls or physical play, but if your going to call it, be consistant.
My opinion don't put urself in a situation where you need the refs to bail you out.
Other than the strike zone in baseball, the charge/block call is the most subjective in sports. The bottom line, it was a charge b/c the ref thought it was.
on both of em. Eject everyone
Prob block but they were hacking us and we didn't get alot of calls.
I know most of us hate ESPN, but I especially think it's absolute crap that they showed the Boeheim post game interview for a half an hour and only showed Beilein for five minutes!
Jim Boeheim makes much better TV than Beilein. Did you see his presser? It was pretty fantastic as far as pressers go
Boeheim has time to spend talking to ESPN.
Beilein is prepping for the national championship game......
You can dissect the entire game and find blown or missed calls either way. Bottom line, we scored more points. Kudos to the the play we got off the bench and once again.... Fuck them.
The dumbest thing about the whole situation is that the guy was out of control, was no where close to making a basket, and we got the rebound.
Do I think it was a charge? No. Would it have been a hilarious injustice to bail out a terrible offensive play based on an extremely subjective call? Most definitely.
I really wish the refs just didn't call anything because then there would be no controversy and the outcome would be the same. I don't see why they feel the need to call a foul one way or the other every time a guy drives to the basket.
My opinion is scoreboard bitch
With all this money in college basketball can we get or devlop some good refs.
Also if that was big ten refs, that time CJ Fair slap to Mitch's face would have been a 3 hour review sesh
Would you now like to got back and re-call every close play in the game? Come on, that's for the losers.
For the record it was a charge - check the game stats.
Well, Tim was fouled on that fast break attempt. Also, I thought I saw Trey get pushed on a play where one of their players got an O-rebound and converted. The Triche 3-point-play was a questionable foul as well. These plays happened within the last five or so minutes. Quite ignorant to focus more on a foul just because it happened a couple minutes later in the game. They can't take anything away from this win, we earned it.
The no-call on the THJ fast break was infuriating
I'm just glad we were on the right side of it
The way they call the game now. Not that ita right , this will be the biggest change in officiating next year, you have to give the offense a place to land. It's almost become a reward for bad or slow defense. Tough defenders make it hard to call the other way, who wants to see kids run over, but it's become a theme in the last few years. Go blue Monday.
As in the Louisville - Witcha St. game, the refs need to not make the game about themselves late in the game.
Put the whistle in your pocket. Sometimes . . . don't call anything.
Agreed. He missed the shot and we rebounded it anyway. Would have put us in the same situation. The only change would have been Triche still in the game.
It was obviously a charge. That's what the refs called. There was a whole lot of contact out of the 'Cuse guards on the press that wasn't called too. So maybe that was a give back. Who knows/who cares. The final scoreboard said we have more points. End of the night that's what counts. Go BLUE!!!
looked like a block. Call could have gone either way. I thought there were at least three times when we were trying to inbound the ball in the last few minutes when they simply HELD players and nothing was called.
As much as I disagree with Doug Gottlieb, he was right about one thing, the refs were incredibly inconsistent in the game. In the end it benefitted us! So Cool!
We're playin' for the NATIONAL CHAMIONSHIP!!! GO BLUE!!! baby.
Threads like this remind me of RCMB.
Syracuse hacked the crap out of Michigan tonight. Honestly I kept saying how biased the refs were in their favor. So we got one call out of many. It doesn't dictate the outcome of the game.
It was obviously a charge, because that is what the refs called it. They are the only ones with the authority to make the call and they called it a charge. And so it was.
Why do they always hammer endlessly on one call? What about them not calling tham bear hugging Burke on all the inbouds plays at the end of the game?
And it was a charge. Triche was out of control and even if Morgan was or moving sideways he was in legal guarding position.
Who cares!!!! We are in the title game! Enjoy it
but its been called a charge all year. Worked in our favor this time. So good call
1 - because syracuse man was way out of control
2 - because morgan was in the way (basically) even as he took off
3 - because it f***ing got called that way
In real time, it looked like an easy charge call. Morgan beat him to the spot and got run over. On replay, it was closer to 50-50 . . . but referees don't have the benefit of slo-mo.
Syracuse was mugging Burke (and Hardaway) for about the last 4 minutes of the game with almost no foul calls. If their going to bitch about 1 or 2 calls that went against them, what about the 5 ot 6 no-calls they clearly got away with?
It was a 50-50 play. Looked like a clear charge in real time despite what any talking head on ESPN says. On replay, did Morgan slide over a bit after he left the floor? Maybe. Very difficult play to call.
Block doesn't matter -- it was called charge a d Jordan Morgan came up with the play of the game. Lets let that settle in for a second - love the kid and all he has done, never complained a out being benched and came up HUGE tonight. HAIL and go blue see you all Monday!
Don't care! Go Blue!
Earlier in the year I was watching during a game I was watching the announcer (who was a former player but name escapes me) said that the feet don't necessarily need to be planted as long as you had established your defensive positioning
This was a 50/50 call. I was actually more surprised by the defensive foul call when THJ lowered his shoulder on Michael Carter Williams with just under 2 to go. Glad to see a couple of calls go our way in the end.
Was a really close call. Can't look at the replay and complain because the refs cannot look at replay to make the call. I think it should have a been a no call. Triche missed it and LeVert got the rebound so it really didn't matter.
The main CBS postgame show analyst (the gray-haired guy, don't remember his name) thought it was clearly a charge, so it's not like Dickie V against the world here. It was a 50/50 call when you slowed it down, but at full speed, both in-game announcers thought charge, and that's the only view the ref got. As 20 people have mentioned, it seemed to balance out. If I were a Syracuse fan, I'd have been more pissed about the 4th foul on MCW.
I have 5 new gray hairs tonight. One for each consecutive free throw miss by Michigan in the final 2:00.
It is pretty hard, however, to advance to the National Championship Game without some (or many) close calls going your way. We would be very sore about those calls if the Cuse won and the calls went against us, but, as with any successful team: Close calls--we haz them!
I think it's a charge in the refs mind because the offensive player was clearly out of control. Look at how high on the backboard he hit that shot. Had it gone up softer or in the bucket maybe they call a block? If the offense looks out of control it will most likely go against them.
Plus of the two replays the side view it's clearly a charge. The rear behind Morgan he shuffles a little but he's still square to the offensive player so I say charge all the way. I violently turned off the tv though when the talking heads started bitching right after the game.
The refs' whistles were in Doug Gotlieb's ass for most of Cuse's 2nd half comeback. Thankfully they were extracted before the last call (just in case you were wondering what make Dougie so sore).
he was sore from Syracuse's length....
be moving, and that the elbow to Morgan's chest kind of cinches the matter. I also think that pointing to that one play and saying that Syracuse wins otherwise is. . . weak-ass dissentery chihuahua liquid shag carpet poop.
Change of title please instead of "Charge of Block?". uv oar AC... really?
OK charge then...
Bruce Pearl thinks it's the right call.
In looking at it again, Morgan was at the spot and squared up. The little hop he did didn't change his position. It was a good call.
I think at worst you can say it was, in real-time, a "credible" call, meaning that at full speed, you can certainly make an argument that it is a charge. All you can ask for is that the officials make a call that is credible. If a call is so close that you have to go to replay to figure out what really happened, then at full speed it is impossible to know exactly what call is "right".
The half-court call when hardaway pushed MCW with his elbow was more questionable, but given that both Burke and Hardaway were fouled multiple times by Syracuse's press in the last 4 minutes (Burke was OBVIOUSLY fouled several times) with no calls being made, I think it is pretty weak to cry about one questionable call that was made.
The play MCW fouled out on was a no-question illegal screen. You can't hand the ball off and then run into the guy defending the player you gave the ball too. That is an obvious illegal screen.
The defender doesn't need to be perfectly stationary for it to be a charge. The slow-mo camera angle exaggerate's Morgan's motion - he only moved a couple inches either way after Trich launched.
The offensive player also needs to establish a path for it to be a charge. He was in a curving path that turned with his last step, so it could have at most be a no-call. Otherwise offensive players would always suddenly leap at however in the defense is moving.
TBH, journalists are not particularly familiar with the rules. I doubt they have ever cracked the rulebook open.