Changing my opinion on the Hoke hire
As one of the more vocal supporters of RR and someone who felt Brian didn't go far enough in his disdain for the Hoke hire I must now publicly admit it looks like I was wrong. Very wrong. If you break down what a person has to do to be a successful college football coach I think the major buckets look something like this:
Assistant coach selection: check
Recruiting: double check
Game planning: ?
Halftime adjustments: ?
With half the precincts reporting in, so far this has been a Hoke landslide. He has massively exceeded my expectations in the first two categories and I'm now more than a bit optimistic he'll do the same in the last two.
Maybe Brandon DID know what he was doing after all. Go figure....a guy with his credentials, background and insight knew more about selecting the right coach to lead the football program I love than me.
The offense was really really bad like Sheridan/Threet bad. I realize they only had 15 practices, but they did have the playbook for four months. A lot is going to depend on what Borges does play calling wise. Without the constant threat of the run, I'm afraid of what Denard's passing stats are going to look like. He didn't run all that much in HS and only completed roughly 45% in his three years as a starter and only 43% as a senior with 500+ yards rushing. If he has similar stats this fall I doubt he is still starting at the end of the year.
It looks like Denard is not all that comfortable stepping into the pocket as he is being rushed and this may have to do with his height. He also needs to prove that he can go through his progressions and hit the third or fourth option which he wasn't required to do last year. He'll be required to read the D and make adjustments at the line which will also be new for him. We know from last year that he doesn't seem to like to scramble on called passes. I know Denard will put in the work, but IMO he is not really a good fit for this offense, but that doesn't mean he can't be successful.
While true, it is still too early to pass judgement. This was discussed here and in many other places (including by Borges himself). They approached the spring game as a practice where they focused on working on things they are not very good at yet. Makes some sense. We'll see.
This is exactly why the user gen content on this site sucks now. This is an insightful comment that is actually pretty spot on and now it is hidden because some derp thinks it is anti-Hoke or some bullshit. Seriously, go back to your shanties.
You can adjust the thresholds on what gets hidden. I have mine set to see anything regardless of user moderation. Just to avoid what you talk about above.
My new favorite pic meme for awhile, I think.
Don't want this taken the wrong way, but I just want us to win. I really don't care what his stats are.
You should have been way more concerned by the 2010 spring game when Denard was gashing the defense.
You would expect that Denard would have a little bit of trouble without Lewan and Molk in front of him, when the team was specifically NOT running plays based on his strengths (geez, Borges might be smart enough to hide successful plays or not run ones he knows will work), and where Denard was forced to read progressions against a defense which knows exactly what he's going to run?
But hey - you get nervous about Denard's 25 plays in a game of touch football.
Step back on offense? If you are talking about stepping back from rr"s spread to Hoke's offense how do you know it will be a step back? Also, its hard to score less than 7 against osu.
You have to be with the hire so far, I do not like the way everything was handled, however; I love the way things are going…
team. I was despondent for a day or so until I remembered that I *like* Hoke's brand of football. After watching him hire, watching him recruit, and watching him point, I'm sold. Seeing the way he has drawn in the former players is icing on the cake. I would say I can't wait for the season, but I want to watch hockey for another month.
I was in RR's camp until the bowl game. Like many RR supporters, I thought the extra practices would be just what the doctor ordered to correct some issues and get things straightened out on both sides of the ball. When I saw that the extra practices had resulted in the same sort of regression that we had all witnessed all season, I stopped thinking that more time would cure the problems and was ready to see him go. While initially unsure of the Hoke hire, I was at least happy about his enthusiasm and comments like being ready to walk to Ann Arbor and not even discussing salary. I love Michigan and want its coaches to feel the same way. I don't know whether RR felt that way or not, but Coach Hoke certainly does, and his kind of enthusiasm is definitely contagious.
"When I saw that the extra practices had resulted in the same sort of regression that we had all witnessed all season, I stopped thinking that more time would cure the problems and was ready to see him go."
This. Not only do I agree that the bowl game debacle was decisive, my personal (evidence-free) theory is that Brandon thought so, too. Before the bowl game, I think Brandon's list of coaches for next year looked like this:
1. Jim Harbaugh
2. Rich Rodriguez
After the bowl game, I think it was:
1. Jim Harbaugh
2. Coaching search!
And if so, who can blame him? A bowl game is a test of coaching ability in a way that regular-season games aren't always: you have time for your team to get healthy, you have time to gameplan for a specific opponent, and you have time to focus on whatever issues your team has been struggling with. It was a very, very discouraging comment on the direction of Rodriguez's program that the team he put on the field didn't just get beat, but wasn't competitive.
I can't say that I was initially excited about the Hoke hire - it felt like a compromise - but he's exceeding expectations right now.
I can't think of a misstep he's taken yet.
While, it didn't take me this long to come around (I was sold after the press conference), I am in complete awe of what he has been able to accomplish so far. I was a huge RR supporter sad to see him go, but am thrilled at the direction the program is headed. The final 2 precints will be the truly telling factors, but with the staff he's brought in and the returning talent, I don't think it'll be long before the product on the field is producing what we as fans want to see.
I will admit I didn't know too much about Hoke pre-hire...but after seeing the presser I was sold. He just seems like the kind of coach that can inspire kids to be their best both on and off the field (dang it Stonum).
It is hard to admit that you may have been wrong. It is nice to see that you can and that I think Hoke is making some good strides in getting Michigan back on the winning track.
I guess that
God did not make Brandon barely two-legged and leave it to the internet to make him rational*
*to paraphrase John Locke
For my part, it is quite easy to reconcile two things:
1. Rich Rodriguez was treated despicably when he was in Ann Arbor. He shouldn't have been released. But he was released, and that is a fact.
2. Brady Hoke is a nice guy who is going to do his best and it would be churlish for anyone to hold Brady Hoke responsible for the bad treatment that Rodriguez received. Just as surely as Rodriguez was fired, Hoke was hired, and so deal with it. Dealing with it, with a smile, is even better.
And I think this is pretty close to where I am. I liked RR and thought he mostly got a pretty raw deal. I love Michigan, though, so I hope that Hoke will do well. I'm glad all the naysayers have suddenly found their love for Michigan again but I've learned that what happens on the field is of the utmost importance for everyone. So I'm waiting to see how Hoke does on that score.
It's nice that he seems to be grabbing the best 3 and 4 stars in Michigan and making a good grab at some in Ohio. I'll start feeling wowed by his recruiting when we close a big-time class, which won't happen for another 8 months or so. A lot can happen, as we've all seen.
"He shouldn't have been released"
Do you really think that it's coincidence that the three worst defenses in Michigan's 100+ year history were on RR's watch?
Do you think that it's coincidence that all six of Michigan's losses were by double digits (and four of them by three or more scores)?
Do you really think that it's a coincidence that Michigan's spotless compliance record was stained on RR's watch?
It would have been hard for somebody to come in and do a WORSE job over a three year period than RR did. I understand that he had some things stacked against him (although the Decimated Defense theory is completely overblown). That's no excuse for the excessively bad results on the field.
I'm not saying that he'd never have a BT Championship caliber team at Michigan. What I am saying is that he failed to such an extent over a three year period that Brandon had no choice. He not only should have been released.....he HAD to be released. I wish him luck at his next stop and hope that things work out better for him.
"... Decimated Defense theory is completely overblown ..."
Details, please. Please.
Look, I agree that he did a lousy job of playing his hand of cards, but I think it's silly to act like he was playing with a full deck. Look at the last three NFL drafts.
One problem that RR had was his staff. Coach Hoke was allowed to spend a lot more on his assistant salaries (or at least one of them), and that makes a difference. As I recall, RR's defensive coordinator made about $1M less than Coach Mattison. If RR had been given a bigger budget, he may have been able to convince, for example, his defensive coordinator from WVU to join him and actually had someone on his staff who understood the defense he wanted to run. While I agree that after the bowl game he probably had to go, I also agree with Section 1 that he was treated badly and not given the best possible opportunity to succeed.
This seems to be the newest hypothesis why RR failed. Alas, it does not stand up under examination. Let's set the record straight: RR's assistants were making market-level salaries. They were not underpaid by any stretch of the imagination. Moreover, there is zero evidence that RR ever asked for more money for his assistants and was refused. We have been cheap when it comes to some sports (basketball comes to mind) but never football. We have never skimped on our cash cow. We spent more money on coaches' salaries than all but a small handful of programs nationwide. We also spent a million bucks fixing up the weight room when RR requested it - and of course, spent $226M to fix up the stadium.
BTW, since Mattison makes $750K, how could GERG have been getting $1 million less? You think he was paying us to work here?
Everyone knows RR wanted to bring Casteel, who, instead, elected to stay at WVU. As to salary differences, I had some recollection of reading that Coach Mattison would be making $1.2M, but the actual amount, per the FOIA request, is that he has a base of $250K, will make another $500K and can get a bonus of another $150K is we win the Big Ten championship, for a total of $900K. Sorry I was off by a little, as were you, but I view this as a blog, not an opportunity to engage in online research; judging from the number of points you have, it must be more like an occupation to you. My guess is that if Casteel had been offered something in that range, he would have spent the last three years in Ann Arbor. For approximately $200K, we got GERG.
My guess is that
So...yes, a hypothesis.
My guess is that if Casteel had been offered something in that range, he would have spent the last three years in Ann Arbor. For approximately $200K, we got GERG.Wow, complete speculation. Did you forget that RR fired a perfectly capable DC in order to hire GERG? Claiming that RR mismanaged the defensive side of the ball b/c the AD wouldn't open the wallet not only has absolutely zero evidence to back it up (other than GM's salary vs. GERG's salary, which really doesn't prove anything), it also breaks down completely when you try to explain that having the worst defense in the history of the school as a result of paying market price for assistant coaches. What a crock.
I am surprised at the life of the "Mich didn't pay enough for RR's assistants" pro-RR red herring. Funny how that wasn't considered an issue while Carr was a coach.
Silly that Brian gave it credence but I think that was during his late season/coaching search blue period. The tone here is far more rational, hopefully he continues to pull out of his funk.
There's no evidence to me that RR cared much about the defense beyond his attachment to the 3-3-5. His style was all about offense and from most accounts, that's what the emphasized in practice.
I was "all in" for him, but the end I had decided that Bo was right when he said "Defense Wins Championships!".
Sure, let's look at the last three drafts:
2009
Terrence Taylor (D) - 4th round
Morgan Trent (D) - 6th round
2010
Brandon Graham (D) - 1st round
Zoltan Mesko (S) - 5th round
Stevie Brown (D) - 7th round
2011
Jonas Mouton (D) - 2nd round
Steve Schilling (O) - 6th round
Michigan has had seven players drafted over the past three years. Five of them were defensive players. Tim Jamison, Donovan Warren have also made NFL rosters (and Will Johnson has been in the mix) That gives you 7-8 guys from the 2008 team that has had at least one year of experience in the system and went on to make money in the NFL. Do you think that Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana, MSU or Purdue could say that? The talent level certainly wasn't as deep as it has been in the past....but it wasn't exactly a MAC caliber defense.
Its amazing that RR apologists will point to slightly below average, or average talent and coaching salaries to explain the worst defense in history of the school.
"...but it wasn't exactly a MAC caliber defense."
If you are referring to 2008, OK. If you are referring to 2010, it had a ways to go to even reach MAC caliber. It was an embarrassment.
He's not talking about the results, he's talking about the talent. He's saying the defense was far worse than the talent would suggest it should be.
Ah, then we agree. Thanks.
By chance, I watched the entire Poinsettia Bowl game - it was on when I was doing a home project. SDSU's play was impressive against a favored Navy team. This is the only Hoke-coached game I've ever watched so no expert, but I really liked what I saw on the field from the Aztecs and if we play Big Ten ball with that same intensity then I think we're in good hands with Hoke.
http://www.poinsettiabowl.com/news/2010-san-diego-county-credit-union-p…
GO BLUE!
As one of the very, very, very few vocal Hoke supporters on this board BEFORE he was hired, I must say that even I am impressed and he has well exceeded the high expectations that I had for him. Sure, we are still more than 3 months away from his team taking its first snap, but to date, he had done great things to lay the foundations for years of great M football.
Using your buckets:
Coaching staff - Mattison was an obviously amazing hire. But, look beyond that - it looks like Funk may be as good a recruiter as Mattison and Hoke, and the players seem to love the guy. Ditto the S&C guy, who several players have said great things about. Hoke built a solid staff of coaches that understand B10 football.
Recruiting - obviously, Hoke is on a mission to take every single high 3* or higher recruit in the midwest and he might just accomplish it. MSU boards are melting down over his recruiting prowess. While some have complained that we are not getting the "best national talent" - i.e. not enough 5* or high 4* guys, what Hoke is doing is rebuilding pipelines so that in future years, when top talent comes from the midwest, we will have the inside track. Smart long-term move. He is also launching a direct attack on Sparty, taking talent from even their usual pipelines. This directly weakens a team that we will play every year, by relegating them to CMU level talent. Smart move.
He definitely gets incompletes in game planning and halftime adjustments, but I will say that if he coaches as well at Michigan as he did last year at SDSU, we will be in great shape.
Also, let me add another important bucket - unifying the fanbase. I don't want to get into a discussion of what happened during RR's tenure - it is in the past and until Bacon's book comes out, we all know very little. But, the fanbase was fractured when he got here. In a single presser, and in the months since, Hoke has done a masterful job of bringing the base back together, and also bringing back the former players who are a critical link to our "storied" past. Another really smart move.
Hoke is awesome, and in coming years, all of those who said "I can't believe that DB took us through The Process only to end up with this Hoke guy" will realize that DB made an amazing hire.
...is spot on. There will always be factions in the fanbase, but there are a few factions that deserve to go away for good.
I'd add that he's done an excellent job of team retention. The defections have been few and mostly inconsequential.
I'm excited about all the legendary quotes he's sure to provide us over the next few years. I already love "This is MICHIGAN, for God's sakes"
Admitting that you are wrong is a very important part of developing and progressing.
I wish RR would have admitted that forcing the 3-3-5 was wrong.
Also, 12-wins at Ball State and S.D.State in a bowl game make me think that he will be pretty good at #3 and #4 come September and beyond
"Assistant coach selection: check
Recruiting: double check
Game planning: ?
Halftime adjustments: ?"
you forgot Step 5: profit
Memes=trolling?
I must admit, I prefered Harbough at the time, but I think Hoke has done an amazig job bringing everyone together and had already brought positivity around the Michigan program back. Instead of the atrition people feared, we are having recruits comit early for fear of missing out on the Michigan resurgance. Though I agree the jury is still out on the X and O's, he certainly has put us in a position to succeed on that front as well.
I have to admit I wasn't a big fan of RR. His first year really hurt him in my eyes when he didn't try to adapt the U of M prgram to something more becoming of the talent that was here when he took over. It seemed he was hell bent on implementing the spread. If anyone remembers, but Lloyds last game against Florida, we implemented a pro-style spread that was pretty damn affective. Seems to me had RR looked to be a little more flexible that would have done him worlds of good.
No need to belabor the past. Hoke has come in a blazing. I love the approach the coaching staff is taking to the talent, and how they are attacking the recruiting world for the talent that fits what they want to do. I am super excited for the future again.
I disagree, this is college football, you loose players every year, the players that were left were highly regarded Michigan recruits, don't tell me Illinois, Toledo, Michigan State, Purdue and Northwestern had better players that we did that year. If I recall correctly, a lot of blame was put on our "youth and inexperience" that year, funny enough, that was the excuse the last two years as well.
My faith was badly shaken by the bowl game, after he had all that time to prepare the D. I still supported him, but felt that it would be reasonable to go in a different direction at that point. I would support Hoke regardless, but he has made it pretty easy so far, with his coaching connections, recruiting prowess, and undeniable charisma. However, I still don't credit Brandon for the hire as some posters have, as I think he lucked into it despite his fumbling of the process.