Home
we had subs it was crazy

Primary links

  • About
    • $upport (lol)
    • Ethics
    • FAQ
    • Privacy Policy
  • Contact
  • MGoStore
  • MGoBoard
    • MGoBoard FAQ
    • Ticket spreadsheet
    • Michigan bar locator
    • Moderator Action Sticky
  • Useful Stuff
    • Depth Chart By Class
    • Unofficial Two Deep
    • 2013 Offer Board
    • Crude Bug Tracking System
    • Third Down Stats
    • Diaries, Windows Live Writer, And You
    • Michigan Future Schedules
    • User-Curated HOF
    • 2013 Recruiting Board
    • Where To Eat In Ann Arbor
Home Forums MGoBoard

Navigation

  • Forums
  • Recent posts

User login

  • Create new account
  • Request new password

MGoElsewhere

  • @MGoBlog (Brian)
  • @aceanbender
  • @TomVH (Tom)
  • RSS Feed
  • iPhone App
  • Facebook profile
  • MGoKindle Store
  • mgo.licio.us
  • Brian @ TSB [Archive]
  • Brian @ AOL [Archive]
  • Sour Salty Bitter Sweet

Michigan Blogs

  • Big House Blog
  • Burgeoning Wolverine Star
  • Genuinely Sarcastic
  • Go Blue Michigan Wolverine
  • Holdin' The Rope
  • MGoFootball
  • MVictors
  • Maize 'n' Blue Nation
  • Maize 'n' Brew
  • Maize And Go Blue
  • Michigan Hockey Net
  • The Blog That Yost Built
  • The Hoover Street Rag
  • The M Block
  • The M Zone
  • The Wolverine Blog
  • Touch The Banner
  • UMGoBlog
  • UMHoops
  • UMTailgate
  • Wolverine Liberation Army

M On The Net

  • mgovideo
  • MGoBlue.com
  • Mike DeSimone
  • Recruiting Planet
  • The Wolverine
  • Go Blue Wolverine
  • Winged Helmet
  • UMGoBlue.com
  • MaizeRage.org
  • Puckhead
  • The M Den
  • True Blue Fan Forum

Big Ten Blogs

  • Illinois
    • A Lion Eye
    • Hail To The Orange
    • Illinois Baseball Report
    • Illinois Loyalty
  • Indiana
    • Inside The Hall
    • The Crimson Quarry
  • Iowa
    • Black Heart, Gold Pants
    • Fight For Iowa
  • Michigan State
    • The Only Colors
  • Minnesota
    • GopherHole.com
    • The Daily Gopher
    • I'm In Love With A Fringe Bowl Team
    • TNABACG
  • Nebraska
    • Big Red Network
    • Corn Nation
    • Husker Mike's Blasphemy
    • Husker Gameday
  • Northwestern
    • Sippin' On Purple
    • Lake The Posts
  • Notre Dame
    • The House Rock Built
    • One Foot Down
  • Ohio State
    • Eleven Warriors
    • Buckeye Commentary
    • Men of the Scarlet and Gray
    • Our Honor Defend
    • The Buckeye Nine
  • Penn State
    • Slow States
    • Black Shoe Diaries
    • Happy Valley Hardball
    • Penn State Clips
    • Linebacker U
    • Nittany White Out
  • Purdue
    • Boiled Sports
    • Hammer and Rails
  • Wisconsin
    • Bruce Ciskie

Links of Note

  • Baseball
    • Big Ten Hardball
    • College Baseball Today
    • The Baseball Zealot
    • The College Baseball Blog
  • Basketball
    • Ken Pomeroy
    • Basketball Prospectus
    • Midmajority
  • College Hockey
    • Chris Heisenberg
    • College Hockey Stats
    • Inside College Hockey
    • Michigan College Hockey
    • Hockey's Future
    • Sioux Sports
    • USCHO
    • Western College Hockey
    • CCHA
      • LSSU Hockey
      • Bronco Hockey Blog
  • Football
    • Smart Football
    • Every Day Should Be Saturday
    • Doctor Saturday
    • CFB Stats
    • Harold Stassen
    • NCAA D-I Stats Page
    • The Wizard Of Odds
  • General
    • Sports Central
  • Local Interest
    • The Ann Arbor Chronicle
    • Arborwiki
    • Arbor Update
    • Teeter Talk
    • Vacuum
  • Teams Of The D
    • Lions
      • Pride of Detroit
      • Fire Millen
    • Pistons
      • Detroit Bad Boys
      • Need4Sheed
    • Tigers
      • Roar Of The Tigers
      • The Detroit Tigers Weblog
      • The Daily Fungo
    • Red Wings
      • On The Wings
      • Behind The Jersey
      • Winging It In Motown
    • Michigan Sports Forum

Archive

  • May 2013 (42)
  • April 2013 (94)
  • March 2013 (104)
  • February 2013 (81)
  • January 2013 (93)
  • December 2012 (74)
  • November 2012 (142)
  • October 2012 (143)
  • September 2012 (107)
  • August 2012 (103)
  •  
  • 1 of 11
  • ››

Get Yer Tickets

Football Display Case

NFL Watches

Follow your favorite team with localtv-satellite.com: Click Here.

Site Search

Diaries

  • New
  • Popular
  • Hot
  • MGoAcceptance: Another MGoAnecdote
    LSAClassOf2000 - 1 week ago
  • OT - Kentucky Derby 2012
    k.o.k.Law - 2 weeks ago
  • Observations on the National Championship Game
    Paps - 2 weeks ago
  • Recalling My First Experiences With MGoCulture
    LSAClassOf2000 - 2 weeks ago
  • 2013 NFL Draft Recap: B1G Team Comparisons
    UMgradMSUdad - 3 weeks ago
  • ‹‹
  • 2 of 4
  • ››
more
  • Big Ten Recruiting Rankings 5-15-13
    Ace - 1,470 views
  • Future Non-Conference Opponent Recruiting Watch
    EGD - 695 views
  • More Milford Men Than Michigan Men: Comparing the 11-12 and 12-13 Hockey Teams
    MGoBlueline - 481 views
  • Way Too Late B1G Men's Basketball Scheduling Idea
    BeileinBuddy - 455 views
  • Using Rivals' Star Ratings To Look At Big Ten Football Recruiting: 2002-2013
    LSAClassOf2000 - 148 views
  • Big Ten Recruiting Rankings 5-15-13
    Ace - 51 comments
  • Future Non-Conference Opponent Recruiting Watch
    EGD - 15 comments
  • The Blockhams in "HOCKEY HANGOVER"
    Six Zero - 13 comments
  • Using Rivals' Star Ratings To Look At Big Ten Football Recruiting: 2002-2013
    LSAClassOf2000 - 7 comments
  • More Milford Men Than Michigan Men: Comparing the 11-12 and 12-13 Hockey Teams
    MGoBlueline - 7 comments

MGoBoard

  • New
  • Recent
  • Hot
  • Updated Rivals100
    3 replies
  • 5-Star DT Andrew Brown Planning Visit
    32 replies
  • OT- Miguel (not that Miguel) kicks fan in head at Billboard Music Awards
    38 replies
  • UMich NFL draft history, Part III
    1 replies
  • ESPN 30 for 30 on the Bad Boys
    39 replies
  • OT: Game of Thrones
    50 replies
  • Question about M receiving great Jim Smith
    33 replies
  • Rajin Cajuns Invade Ann Arbor for some Red Hot Softball
    23 replies
  • Tigers vs Rangers 5/19
    57 replies
  • Michigan Rowing Places Second at Big Ten Championships
    27 replies
  • Michigan Softball vs. Cal Open Thread
    75 replies
  • OT: Caption Contest - Preakness Fan
    33 replies
  • OT: Saturday Night Drinking/Open/Tigers Thread
    46 replies
  • B1G Network Helmet Bracket
    40 replies
  • Steve Everitt rips Notre Dame!
    54 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 6
  • ››
  • OT- Miguel (not that Miguel) kicks fan in head at Billboard Music Awards
    38 replies
  • Updated Rivals100
    3 replies
  • 5-Star DT Andrew Brown Planning Visit
    32 replies
  • Question about M receiving great Jim Smith
    33 replies
  • OT: Game of Thrones
    50 replies
  • Rajin Cajuns Invade Ann Arbor for some Red Hot Softball
    23 replies
  • ESPN 30 for 30 on the Bad Boys
    39 replies
  • OT: Red Wings @ Hawks Game 2 Open Thread
    114 replies
  • B1G Network Helmet Bracket
    40 replies
  • UMich NFL draft history, Part III
    1 replies
  • OT: Ron English & Mike Hart to jump out of a plane for new EMU bathrooms
    43 replies
  • Tigers vs Rangers 5/19
    57 replies
  • Michigan Softball vs. Cal Open Thread
    75 replies
  • Michigan Rowing Places Second at Big Ten Championships
    27 replies
  • Marvin Robinson to FSU
    52 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 6
  • ››
  • OT: Red Wings vs. Blackhawks Open Thread
    201 replies
  • Shane Morris to wear the famed #7 jersey, J.J. McGrath #46
    175 replies
  • Jabrill Peppers Announcement Date Set
    169 replies
  • Brady Hoke Calls Notre Dame A Chicken
    163 replies
  • UM 2014 Conf schedule football
    123 replies
  • Brandon on Uniformzzz
    119 replies
  • OT: Red Wings @ Hawks Game 2 Open Thread
    114 replies
  • Notre Dame's Nix fires back at Coach Hoke
    110 replies
  • Alex Bars to Notre Dame
    96 replies
  • Sparty losing recruits to the rap game
    95 replies
  • PSU about to get blasted again by SI investigative report
    88 replies
  • Michigan Softball vs. Cal Open Thread
    75 replies
  • Michigan has #1 recruiting class on ESPN now.
    73 replies
  • OT: Advice on moving to Ann Arbor
    72 replies
  • Jay Harris (the rapping WR) had schollie pulled by MSU a month ago
    70 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 6
  • ››

mgo.licio.us

  • Tim Hardaway Jr. is motivated by his critics and doubters, and supremely confident in his ability

    I am only motivated by people who have no opinion about me.

    0 comments
  • Big Ten football procrastinates on parity-based scheduling, and nothing ever changes

    the just released schedules were a flat-out statement that the B10 doesn't believe SOS will matter in playoff selection

    1 comments
  • Michigan's Glenn Robinson III, Mitch McGary ranked inside top 20 on ESPN's 2014 draft board

    but I thought that draft was supposed to be incredibly loaded?

    1 comments
  • Tim Hardaway Jr. turning heads, viewed as a first-rounder by some teams, analyst says

    If you're gonna go please be in the first round.

    0 comments
  • Michigan-Ohio State once, Indiana-Purdue once? The Big Ten has to protect its hoops rivalries

    another delightful side effect of a 14 team conference

    0 comments
  • Beilein on transfers: All should have to sit a year, regardless of situation

    I disagree.

    0 comments
  • Julie Hermann takes over as Rutgers AD, won't try to spend like Michigan

    GOOD PLAN

    1 comments
  • Jay Harris says no to Michigan State, decides to become a rapper

    hahahahaha

    0 comments
  • The Difference Between A Good Fan And A Bad Fan

    thoughtful piece from Jacobi on middle finger lady

    3 comments
  • Michigan's rising recruiting profile exciting John Beilein, who remains true to his scouting form

    Their high school coaches and AAU coaches have probably a better appreciation of Michigan than maybe they had before," Beilein said. "It's a tough balance right now. Tim Hardaway and Trey Burke weren't really high-profile players, nor was Darius Morris, and all were high-profile players. "We're still looking at 'who is the best fit.' "

    0 comments
  • Charles Barkley discusses Michael Jordan, Dream Team and more - NBA - Jack McCallum - SI.com

    "When I call somebody a midget, clearly I'm not trying to insult f---ing midgets. I'm just using basketball terminology."

    0 comments
  • Why does the NFL make for such bad media?

    robots

    0 comments
  • Pictured: Detroit's Robocop Statue nears completion date

    elsewhere in awesome things kickstarter made happen

    0 comments
  • Spectacular images of the madness that was the first FA Cup final

    And you think you're crowded at Michigan Stadium

    0 comments
  • Bear Vs. Monkey Bicycle Race Ends With Bear Eating Monkey

    IMPORTANT: Ondre Pipkins not involved.

    11 comments
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more

Chait's take on Expansion

78 posts / 0 new
Login or register to post comments
Last post
November 20th, 2012 at 7:48 PM
#1
jbibiza
Joined: 10/08/2009
MGoPoints: 1945
Chait's take on Expansion

UM alum Jon Chait comments on "The Madness of Big Ten Expansion"  in New York Magazine:

http://nymag.com/daily/sports/2012/11/madness-of-big-ten-expansion.html

jbibiza

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
Tags:
  • MGoBoard
  • football

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
November 20th, 2012 at 7:53 PM |   In other words, as a (Score:5 Normal)
wile_e8
wile_e8's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2505

 

In other words, as a profit-making mechanism, this is essentially a scam. It relies on an opaque pricing mechanism (bundled cable television) forcing people to pay for a product they don’t want. Right now, it’s a highly lucrative scam. But bundled cable television pricing is not going to last forever, and possibly not very long at all. There is already a revolution in video content under way that is going to render the cable television bundle model obsolete. When that revolution has finished, the Big Ten will realize it pulled apart its entire identity to grab a profit stream that has disappeared.

And here is the key - cable subscription fees won't last forever, and when they are gone we're still going to be stuck with Maryland and Rutgers.

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 8:37 PM | {And here is the key - Fiber (Score:5 Normal)
Eck Sentrik
Eck Sentrik's picture
Joined: 12/08/2008
MGoPoints: 2876

{And here is the key - Fiber optic television subscription fees won't last forever, and when they are gone we're still going to be stuck with Toledo and Ball State.} - Posts from 2025

 

I'm pretty confident thus far that the B1G will stay ahead of the curve with the network.

all the dude wanted was his rug back...

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:04 PM | I agree (Score:2 Normal)
Geary_maize
Joined: 09/07/2011
MGoPoints: 183

It doesn't change the fact that most B1G schools are the flagship schools in their state, and the B1G is a premier football, basketball, and hockey league. That is a built in advantage/moneymaker no matter what medium is used to deliver content.

  • Login or register to post comments
November 21st, 2012 at 12:19 AM | Yeah, this was my thinking as (Score:4 Normal)
bronxblue
Joined: 11/22/2008
MGoPoints: 12582

Yeah, this was my thinking as well.  Sure, the schools already have built-in fanbases, but people complaining that "just wait until cable isn't relevant anymore" are ignoring the fact that masssive multimedia conglomerates tend to dictate the methods and technologies by which you receive information, even if the customer-facing entity appears to be struggling.  

  • Login or register to post comments
November 21st, 2012 at 12:17 PM | Yep...and there will always (Score:2)
wildbackdunesman
Joined: 07/16/2008
MGoPoints: 2583

Yep...and there will always be a demand for BigTen sports, so I am confident that the conference will find a way to make money.

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 8:47 PM | Bundled cable is not a scam. (Score:5 Normal)
FreeKarl
FreeKarl's picture
Joined: 11/16/2012
MGoPoints: 195

Bundled cable is not a scam. I don't think people realize how cable tv would cost if everyone was  buying individual channels. Channel's are bundled because they fixed costs(the actual cable infrastructure and cost of producing content) is relatively expensive while the cost of distributing the channel to more people is essentially nonexistent. 

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 10:35 PM | That's the point, (Score:1 Normal)
jblaze
jblaze's picture
Joined: 08/29/2008
MGoPoints: 3172

if cable were not bundled, we would all pay $100/ month for Internet access and then pay $1-$3 per channel. I can assure you that the cable companies, who control internet access (generally via monopolies) are not going to not make a huge profit!

Services like Hulu & Netflix only make live TV more valuable. Sports is the only reason I even have Cable TV.

"They're stuck with that quarterback (sophomore Braxton Miller) for the next two or three years, that's fine with me. He throws worse than (Tim) Tebow. - Steve Everitt

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 11:23 PM | At some point not very far (Score:1 Normal)
wile_e8
wile_e8's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2505

At some point not very far down the road, streaming video over the internet will become ubiquitous to the point that lots of people will drop bundled cable and and only pay for the streaming shows they want. At this point, all of those infrastructure costs will be covered in the internet bill and the individual channels will need to find interested customers willing to pay to cover the costs of producing content. And when this happens, BTN.com will be able to attract a significant number of subscribers from the die hard fans, but more casual fans are going to be discouraged by the number of crappy games from programs that have nothing going for them other than "demographics". Those demographics won't matter when they drop cable and subscribe to streaming video from anywhere other than BTN.com, but those programs are still going to get an equal cut of the BTN.com subscription fees. In the mean time, good luck raising ticket prices with schedules featuring Rutgers and Maryland and whatever other middling programs get added because they have "demographics".

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 11:46 PM | But (Score:1 Normal)
Gulogulo37
Joined: 03/16/2010
MGoPoints: 257

You say CABLE TV would cost more if everyone were buying individual channels, and you're absolutely right. But isn't the point what it's replaced by? There's already internet infrastructure. It doesn't take anything more to add that content to my internet package, right?

Cable - internet = undesirable, cable can't get me dirty, dirty German porn (insert South Park quote that I'll forego)

Internet - cable = totally fine provided that I have college football and about 2 TV shows I like that aren't on basic channels. And actually one of them isn't even on basic cable; it's on HBO.

I realize most people watch more TV than me, but for myself, buying individual programs or channels is far cheaper than the bloated price of Comcast that my mom pays. Hell, I can watch The Daily Show and South Park online for free. And certainly part of the reason it's free is that it doesn't cost anything extra for them to throw it on the internet.

Edit: Damn! Wile_e8 said everything already. Not sure how it was supposedly posted 20 minutes before me though

  • Login or register to post comments
November 21st, 2012 at 12:09 AM | The thing is the channels (Score:3 Normal)
FreeKarl
FreeKarl's picture
Joined: 11/16/2012
MGoPoints: 195

The thing is the channels that cover college football, if paid for seperately would probably excede the cost of your current tv bill. You can only watch The Daily Show and South Park for free because millions of other people are paying for it. Jon Stewart isn't working for free with a donated studio and the revenue generated by people watching a few ads online isn't going to cover the costs of producing the show. 

  • Login or register to post comments
November 21st, 2012 at 12:19 AM | I'm pretty sure newspapers (Score:3 Normal)
wile_e8
wile_e8's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2505

I'm pretty sure newspapers made a similar argument 20 years ago.

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:07 PM | I think all of the (Score:3 Normal)
Blue since birth
Joined: 12/24/2009
MGoPoints: 1076

I think all of the predictions about the demise of the cable companies (and the current model) are very premature. I say this after recently looking into dropping my monthly provider and finding it wasn't at all practical for a family of four. Maybe a different story if I were single and kid-free.

As sad as it may be... I'm one of the more tech savvy people I know.

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 7:56 PM | While I don't necessarily (Score:5 Normal)
turtleboy
turtleboy's picture
Joined: 04/22/2011
MGoPoints: 3207

While I don't necessarily disagree, it's funny how he doesn't deride Notre Dame dropping B1G play to expand ACC and Pac 12 participation for the same reasons, only much more selfishly and greedily. Everybody basically applauded their move, while more is somehow expected of the B1G.

How many times have you been on the freeway and had someone fly by you at 100 mph then end up 2 cars ahead of you at the off ramp? What's the point? -Mark Harmon

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 8:12 PM | Bump (Score:-1 Trolling)
elluke
Joined: 05/10/2012
MGoPoints: 29

Agree with everything that guy said.

Is there ANYONE out there from the Big10 who is happy about this?

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 8:57 PM | If it can mean realigning the (Score:5 Normal)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28961

If it can mean realigning the divisions to put Michigan and OSU together, I'll be the happiest fan around.

 

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 8:28 PM | How about a mod makes one (Score:2 Normal)
IPFW_Wolverines
Joined: 10/03/2010
MGoPoints: 1553

How about a mod makes one thread for expansion. That way the "end of worlders" can go in there and hold hands or whatever it is that end of worlders do to console themselves, and the rest of us can move on without seeing ten threads saying the same thing.

"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 8:52 PM | Don't click on the post (Score:0 Trolling)
UMRecruitingFannatic
UMRecruitingFannatic's picture
Joined: 11/12/2012
MGoPoints: 126

Don't click on the post then?  If you haven't noticed, this is kind of an important issue, so it bears some reason to believe that people will want to talk about it more than say... "Cato June's Anacostia HS Football to play for championship." 

Rutgers and Maryland: NOT WELCOME

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 8:58 PM | And this means it can't be (Score:1 Normal)
IPFW_Wolverines
Joined: 10/03/2010
MGoPoints: 1553

And this means it can't be kept in one thread becuase?

"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 10:06 PM | Right back at you (Score:-1 Trolling)
Tater
Tater's picture
Joined: 08/13/2008
MGoPoints: 10359

And this means it can't be in multiple threads because?  You don't want it to be in multiple threads?  There are a lot more people here than just you, and they all have their own opinions and ideas of what is relevant.  

Relevance is determined by participation.  In other words, every time you post about something that you see as redundant, you are actually making it more relevant.  

You don't want my advice, but I'll offer it anyway: it isn't wise to expect everyone on mgoblog to obey you or agree with you just becuase you say it is so.  It also isn't wise to prove the relevance of the very things you want to eliminate.

I hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 8:33 PM | One Reservation... (Score:4 Normal)
LSAClassOf2000
LSAClassOf2000's picture
Joined: 01/07/2011
MGoPoints: 8724

"Like the Big 12, the ACC learned that taking a bunch of fan bases that reside in the same general region and declaring that they should start caring passionately about beating each other is not enough to make it happen."

This is one of the things that worries me about this on an admittedly sentimental level. I do understand the money angle, the BTN subscription fees being very attractive in these markets where Rutgers and Maryland reside, the desire expressed by these schools to have solvent athletic departments and the like, but will Rutgers or Maryland ever develop a real rivalry in a relatively insular Big Ten? I see ours as a conference where it might be difficult to invent a rivalry, as there are some long-standing, storied ones. The revenue estimates are enough for the conference that this may not matter, but to some extent, it does to me. Hard to explain precisely. In a decade or two, will we be revisiting this week and wondering what has been gained by the conference in an intangible (i.e., not financial) sense? Part of me fears the answer may be less than thrilling. 

 

"Funny isn't it, how naughty dentists always make that one fatal mistake."

Follow the random tweets of a Michigan alum - http://twitter.com/#!/LorneEC3

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:53 PM | In my mind you make a great (Score:-1 Normal)
eamus_caeruli
Joined: 11/29/2010
MGoPoints: 546

In my mind you make a great point, will they ever be accepted to the degree of Nebraska? In all honesty, ru and mu may get their money but will always be outsiders. If anything people will resent that they are forced to call them BIG schools and they will have a hard time garnering respect. I mean who went to Expedia and started looking at tickets to DC or NJ for our first game against them in two years.



Oh, no one.



I won't get behind them. This isn't me being stubborn, it's me being BIG ethnocentric. I like many want the BIG to stay relevant to me, and where I live. Could careless about peoples cable boxes, even alums --sorry but true! We make a ton of money now as a conference and would have regardless.



Nebraska was a good call. They were not.

"Everybody thinks of changing humanity, but nobody thinks of changing himself."                  - Leo Tolstoy

  • Login or register to post comments
November 21st, 2012 at 12:13 AM | For Rutgers and Maryland, the (Score:2)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28961

For Rutgers and Maryland, the logical rival is PSU, which needs more rivals anyway.  Those three could become an eastern trio of hatred analogous to Minnesota/Iowa/Wisconsin.

 

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 8:54 PM | It's kind of thrilling for me to read Jon Chait. (Score:4 Normal)
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 14297

Because I agree 110% with him on all things college football, and I agree with close to 0% of his political writings, which is his basic "day job."  It's actually a wonderful feeling to find agreement with someone who comes from what you normally associate as the opposition.  And he really is a very fine writer, no matter what the sentiment.

In this story, Jon walked right up to the edge of a very large question and then never really dealt with it.  Why, exactly, do colleges continue the need to feel ever more pressed for more money?  Assuredly, every B1G athletic director feels an urgent need to raise more money.  To even do whacky, crazy, extravagant things, to raise more money.  Bring in Maryland and Rutgers and make the Conference 14 teams!  Why?

It's a little like political fundraising, isn't it?  (To pick an analogy close to Chait, without going into a political argument.)  Politicians, most of them, HATE political fundraising but they do it because it is part of the job.  And it is part of the job because it is necessary, to compete.  The competition is regulated, but only partly, and only in certain limited ways.  You can never have too much cash, and you will always find a way to spend it.  The more you have, the better you can compete.  You could place limits on the fundraising and spending, but it isn't easy; when there are separate competing interests, money will usually find a way to do its work.

As always, the interesting comparison is the NFL.  The NFL is almost pure socialism compared to the wild west capitalism of collegiate football.  The owners of NFL franchises are very much geared to the financial success of the league.  The NFL has one contract with apparel vendors, one system of rigid salary capping, one entry draft (with the poor getting richer and the rich getting poorer), and even the schedules get re-jiggered every year so that bad teams don't have to play too many great teams, within the limits of geographical divisions.  Teams share equally in all manner of league revenue, and even the tiniest details from player discipline, to approval as to how uniforms are to be worn, are league prerogatives.  One commissioner, ruling all of the franchises.

Just imagine; the Lions trying to raise donations in order to build better facilities so as to attract a better class of players in 2014.

In the case of trying to expand the revenue base of the Big Ten Network, Michigan is not getting a leg up on Ohio State.  But all of the Big Ten schools might be getting a leg up on Oklahoma, or Tennessee, Syracuse.  Maybe, just maybe, the evil at the root of all of this expansion mania, is the balkanization of tv contracts broken up by leagues and/or teams.  As a consumer, I like the Big Ten Network.  It's fun and interesting.  But when it leads to the destruction of Michigan playing Wisconsin, or the ruination of the final season game against Ohio State, I will have a very hard time supporting the BTN.

 

 

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 8:54 PM | I don't think either of those (Score:2 Normal)
FreeKarl
FreeKarl's picture
Joined: 11/16/2012
MGoPoints: 195

I don't think either of those are really good analogies though:

1 Of course politicians hate the act of fundraising, no one likes asking people for money and pretending to like them and care about what they have to say. That doesn't mean they don't like the present of money in the political system.

2 In NCAAF, recruiting players is about having sweet facilities and a broader influence that will help you to be given the benefit of the doubt in polls. In the NFL, player's care a bit about about facilities and desire to play on a winning team, but mostly salary dictates their decision. 

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:07 PM | That is exactly my point... (Score:1 Normal)
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 14297

You've made two good points that illustrate what I was suggesting.

Of course there are politicians -- even incumbents, for whom the status quo usually works pretty good -- who so despise fundraising, that they'd vote to reform it. Meet Senators John McCain and Russ Feingold.  Bipartisan reformers.  But then there are the others who know that what currently exists usually helps get them re-elected, and they fear (and oppose) any change that would upset their position.  Meet Bo Schembechler, who lobbied hard against Title IX legislation, and who complained about the reduction in his number of scholarships.

And yes oh yes NFL players care about the money.  That was partly my point.  They expect a certain basic level of facilities, but beyond that, they make millions and can buy their own trainers and facilities.  The big thing for them is the salary cap, and there you run into NFL socialism once again.

What would Michigan do, if the NCAA set an absolute limit on how big a collegiate football budget can be?  Michigan football makes about $75 million a year, and they spread it out to all of the other sports.  What if the NCAA wanted to make it more even for everybody, to help promote a unified game like the NFL?  Teams could only spend $10 million a year on football operations, and all revenue above a certain level were shared?  Because that is how the NFL works, essentially.

 

 

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 8:51 PM | RE: Expansion (Score:1)
Soulfire21
Soulfire21's picture
Joined: 03/18/2010
MGoPoints: 3130

Saban's come out in support of superconferences, and with conferences reaching 14 teams (and possibly 16 soon), does this mean we're going to play more than 12 regular season games?

Is that even on the table?  Like a 16 game model?

HAIL.

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 8:59 PM | Play the majority of the (Score:1)
UMRecruitingFannatic
UMRecruitingFannatic's picture
Joined: 11/12/2012
MGoPoints: 126

Play the majority of the games in the fall semester, then move the finale of the season to the spring term with Bowl games being played after?  That way we could get northern bowls and more reason for households to get the BTN.  Plus more ticket sales, more time to practice, etc. 

Rutgers and Maryland: NOT WELCOME

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:08 PM | Besides... (Score:1)
justingoblue
justingoblue's picture
Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10860

putting further demands on the students that play football and completely changing the sport, you would be asking the NCAA to approve schedule changes in football so that it directly competes with the events that make the NCAA money. Never going to happen.

Go Blue!

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:36 PM | The early February Frenzy (Score:1)
UMRecruitingFannatic
UMRecruitingFannatic's picture
Joined: 11/12/2012
MGoPoints: 126

The early February Frenzy followed by March Madness.... duh.  Plus, with the way football has been changing these past few months, I don't think this would be ALL that momentus. 

Rutgers and Maryland: NOT WELCOME

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:06 PM | Disagree. (Score:4 Normal)
Geary_maize
Joined: 09/07/2011
MGoPoints: 183

Lots of faulty logic here

1) Cable might become obsolete: Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that the two schools are the dominant in state institutions of populous states. Whatever medium media morphs into in the future, that is a built in advantage that cannot be replicated by, say, Pitt, Syracuse, or NC State

2) B1G will fail like the B12 failed: WTF? The B12 failed because Texas acted like a spoiled ahole and the B12 payouts were pitiful. In case you haven't noticed, the B1G is equal, and the payouts are peerless.

3) B1G will fail like the ACC: The ACC is a hugely flawed conference to begin with. 4 schools in North Carolina? Are you kidding me? A basketball league in a land driven by football? And Rutgers/Maryland >>>> Pitt/Syracuse long term.

4) At some point you don't need more money: Tell that to the SEC. Long term the B1G's rival is them, and they ain't slowing down, especially with the SEC network coming soon. Facilities need constant updating, coaches pays get higher, and Michigan will build a new hockey arena sooner or later.

He is right though, in that the tradition loss is sad. 

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:12 PM | I just finished saying that I (Score:3 Normal)
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 14297

I just finished saying that I agreed with Chait, but these are great points.  +1.

I guess that I don't much care whether this is a financially winning strategy or not.  I just want my game-day experience preserved, and I am nearing my personal limit on how much I will allow the University to continue to pick my pocket for more money in the future.

 

 

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:32 PM | This ^ (Score:1)
cozy200
cozy200's picture
Joined: 01/02/2011
MGoPoints: 873

Breaking point fastly approaching.

Its called a royale with cheese

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:39 PM | I agree (Score:2 Normal)
Geary_maize
Joined: 09/07/2011
MGoPoints: 183

Tradition loss is sad. I just hope that Rutgers and Maryland will be able to take advantage of their in-state talent (which dwarfs schools like Iowa, Minny, Wisky, Indiana) and B1G resources to become consistantly ranked teams when they come to the Big House.

And with the newcomers raking in 2x or even 3x the money of the Big East or ACC schools around them, it seems like a matter of time.

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:18 PM | More money=more opportunity (Score:3 Normal)
FreeKarl
FreeKarl's picture
Joined: 11/16/2012
MGoPoints: 195

More money=more opportunity for athletes to get a free education while partaking in a sport they love. 

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:22 PM | You mean... (Score:1 Normal)
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 14297

Do you mean more rowers, gymnasts and field hockey players?  Because scholarships in revenue sports are strictly limited.  Michigan can't give out more "free educations" for partaking in football if they wanted.

There is a name for what is happening in FBS-level college football.  It is called "an arms race."

 

 

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:31 PM | Yes that is what I mean, and (Score:3 Normal)
FreeKarl
FreeKarl's picture
Joined: 11/16/2012
MGoPoints: 195

Yes that is what I mean, and scholarships are limited in those sports also so I'm not sure why that was pointed out. If it was a football arms race why would Michigan be spending 200 million dollars on non-revenue sports?

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:34 PM | The other sports get a lot, (Score:2 Normal)
justingoblue
justingoblue's picture
Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10860

The other sports get a lot, sure, but M has spent well over double that figure on football related facilities upgrades in the past few years. A new $56m practice facility and $350m in stadium renovations definitely screams "arms race" to me.

Go Blue!

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:48 PM | Yeah but the renovations were (Score:2)
FreeKarl
FreeKarl's picture
Joined: 11/16/2012
MGoPoints: 195

Yeah but the renovations were to increase revenue and give more people the opportunity to watch football, not in the spirit of some sort of competitive advantage. Additionally, a 56 million dollar facility for 100+ athletes is a similar level of spending to a 40 million dollar indoor rowing facility for a team of around 50 athletes. 

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:43 PM | Nick Saban (Score:1)
Geary_maize
Joined: 09/07/2011
MGoPoints: 183

When Alabama hired Nick Saban for 5 million a year, I realized it was going to take money to win.

And not just money, but the MOST money. 

College sports is going the way of baseball. The Yankees usually win.

Just sayin.

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:42 PM | How are (Score:2)
MGoAlexander
MGoAlexander's picture
Joined: 11/14/2012
MGoPoints: 300

How are Rutgers/Maryland>>>>Pitt/Syracuse?

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:55 PM | They (Score:3 Normal)
Geary_maize
Joined: 09/07/2011
MGoPoints: 183

They are the dominant, peerless in-state schools in a populous, talent rich state. Once they update their facilities and hire better coaches with the B1G money, there is a good chance they will become pretty decent football teams. They have much better built in advantages than Iowa, Northwestern, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan State, and dare I say... Nebraska.

The even better thing is those Jersey and Maryland recruits will come to the B1G in bigger numbers. Just look at the talent the past 2 years.

Henri Poggi, Steffon Diggs, Kendall Fuller, Eli Woodard, Yuri Wright, Darius Hamilton, Devin Fuller, Ronald Darby, Cyrus Kouandjio, Blake Countess

Pitt will always be second fiddle to Penn State for recruits. Syracuse is a small private school in a less than talented state.

And Rutgers brings in New Jersey cable money, and Maryland brings in Maryland cable money. Neither Pitt or Syracuse does.

  • Login or register to post comments
November 21st, 2012 at 10:17 AM | Pitt is actually not second fiddle... (Score:1)
Yale Van Dyne Fan
Joined: 11/29/2010
MGoPoints: 58

...to Penn State. Do the names Larry Fitzgerald, LeSean McCoy, Jeff Otah and Darrelle Revis mean anything to you?

  • Login or register to post comments
November 21st, 2012 at 11:38 AM | Pitt does a lot better than, say, MSU... (Score:1)
justingoblue
justingoblue's picture
Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10860

but it's still very much of an uphill battle against PSU. Of the guys you named, Paterno wanted Fitzgerald to play LB, McCoy was a huge in-state recruit but committed to Miami before ending up at a prep school after problems in high school, Pitt picked him up after that. I don't know the story regarding Otah's recruiting, and Revis was a legit win, although aided by his desire to play basketball as well.

I'd say Pitt/PSU is much more equal than M/MSU, OSU/Cincinnati, or USC/UCLA, but it's still something like UT/A&M. At least under Paterno, PSU won a lot more recruiting battles than they lost; we'll have to see with O'Brien and Chryst.

Go Blue!

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 8:57 PM | I completely agree with (Score:3 Normal)
VSS
Joined: 06/23/2011
MGoPoints: 148

I completely agree with Chait. But, the only reason I support this expansion is because they're large flagship universities in densely populated and wealthy states with good academics and the potential for much better athletics as well. As crazy as these expansions are becoming, I'm almost of the mindset that we should go after the best schools no matter where they are, but I can understand the "upside" argument with this deal. Where I especially agree with Chait is with whether framing the issue in these terms as if it's a game of Risk is right. I don't think it's right at all. I think as far as the business model is concerned, I think we should be able to adjust. I don't see us going to a-la-carte cable or the content providers relinquishing their bargaining power anytime soon, but the cable business will be much different 10 years from now. 

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:59 PM | I agree. Look at South Carolina (Score:1)
Geary_maize
Joined: 09/07/2011
MGoPoints: 183

South Carolina was nothing a decade ago. But recently, with the SEC money really kicking in around the late 90's, they made a good coaching hire, and boom look at where they are.

But it takes more than money. You need recruits, preferrably in-state recruits. Where is Marcus Lattimore from? Where is Jadaveon Clowney from? South Carolina.

Maryland and New Jersey suck right now, but I don't see why they can't become the next South Carolina.

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 8:58 PM | Liked it (Score:4 Normal)
ppToilet
ppToilet's picture
Joined: 04/18/2011
MGoPoints: 777
My favorite line:

What’s amazing about the college conference expansion fad is that the conferences are not even doing the normal dumb thing that every business does, which is to try to copy success. They are trying to copy failure. Everybody is racing to turn their successful product into the next New Coke.

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 8:59 PM | he (Score:1 Normal)
Geary_maize
Joined: 09/07/2011
MGoPoints: 183

He's comparing failure with the B12 and ACC, which failed for entirely different reasons. His logic is completely off.

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:03 PM | Actually (Score:4 Normal)
ppToilet
ppToilet's picture
Joined: 04/18/2011
MGoPoints: 777

I think he is saying that you can't manufacture tradition. That just because you make something sweeter, and just because people generally like sweeter things, doesn't mean the "new" product is better than the old one.

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:10 PM | True (Score:2 Normal)
Geary_maize
Joined: 09/07/2011
MGoPoints: 183

You can't manufacture it... if you mistreat your own conferencemates. Texas drove off Nebraska, and the ACC simply could not supply the financial support it should have.

Given the B1G's rock solid status, I don't see why another 40 years down the line we won't have more rivalries.

  • Login or register to post comments
November 20th, 2012 at 9:20 PM | I don't necessarily disagree (Score:2)
ppToilet
ppToilet's picture
Joined: 04/18/2011
MGoPoints: 777

But the biggest concern I have is that a lot of the best rivalry games in college football are geographic rivalries: U of M vs OSU (shoot, we've been fighting with Ohio going all the way back to the Toledo thing), Auburn vs Alabama, Oklahoma vs Texas, Miami vs FSU, UCLA vs USC, and so on. Yes, some rivalries are not geographic but they seem to be the minority.

So, I'm for change and new rivalries and such but will we really ever be strong rivals with Rutgers? I guess we'll find out...

  • Login or register to post comments
  • 1
  • 2
  • next ›
  • last »
Powered by Pressflow, an open source content management system
Theme provided by Roopletheme; sidebars adapted from Chris Murphy.