and have Drummond in the fold. I guess I don't understand the reasoning for taking a big when we have more obvious holes in the frontcourt.
Chad Ford NBA Mock Draft 4.0
Ford seems to think the Pistons might not resign Monroe who is an RFA
But doesn't it make sense to re-sign Monroe and draft a guard rather than let Monroe go and replace him with a rookie? Then we are no better than this year.
are not going to draft a big and that is a riduclous mock draft pick by Ford. I am serious that I think the Pistons are more likely to draft Stauskus than Vonleh. (And seriously, Stauskus has in spades what the Pistons have needed for years. a knock down wing shooter).
They need to subtract in terms of bigs, not add. It they wanted to sign a role big to back up Drummond and Smith (at the 4, where he will play once Monroe goes) that is fine but if they use a lottery pick on a raw big I am going to hand over my Pistons card once and for all.
what is the "defense" you refer to?
No but seriously I would like the Harris pick too. He is just more of the KCP size and kind of a similar skill set, seems like it would be a redundant pick. I happen to think Stauskus is going to actually be really, really good at the next level so I would fully support that selection.
As far as Smith, he may not the long term "answer" at the 4 but he is our long term "saga" at the 4 cause nobody be taking that contract. So unless somebody successfully plots his assasination you will be watching wild off the dribble 3 pointers for another 6 years or so.
His agent said months ago that he's getting a max contract. Pistons can't afford that with all the other great contracts they have.***
***is a smart ass comment
It was the best of times it was the blurst of times? .... You stupid monkey.
To be or not to be, that is the gazornan plat.
but he can't pretend to know what a team without a GM or a coach is planning to do.
Why not? Even when they had a coach & a GM the Pistons themselves only pretended to know what to do.
If the Pistons were only pretending to know what to do, and still had success, then what does that mean Cleveland has been doing all these years?
As bad as the last few years have been, this:
is infinitely times better than this:
Edit: Also can't forget about this either!
There's still a lot that has to happen between now and the draft. There's still the combine, and still the actual lottery to determine the order. Plus, like you said, teams like the Pistons need to hire a GM and coach. But, Ford still has to enter in a guess for the Pistons, and his guess was Vonleh who he thinks is the best available player at 8. So his thought was you take him and figure out the rest later. Personally, I think they have enough bigs and need a good guard or SF. The same need they've had for the last 6-7 years.
order is determined. It is the Pistons after all.
There's only a 17.6% chance that the Pistons lose their pick by having someone 9th or lower win their way into the lottery. That said, I fully expect them to lose the pick because they are the Pistons and were stupid to not tank for the 7th worst record.
I understand he's got to make one for everybody. But basing it on their plans for Monroe is stretching things.
I think you can justify the Pistons taking a PF is if Julius Randle somehow slips. He's more rare than a guy like Vonleh is. I could see Randle averaging 15+ PPG right off the bat in his rookie year if given the opportunity. Vonleh is a solid prospect, but I think a guy like him comes around more often. If they pick 8th, and don't luck into one of the top 6 prospects, they need to trade down, imo.
Randle had success at Kentucky sinply because he was bigger and stronger than everyone else. That wont be the case in the NBA. I think whoever drafts him is going to be seriously dissapointed.
That blend of size and skill is really hard to find. Really good off the dribble for a PF and I think he'll probably expand his range out to about 15-18 feet with time. If he doesn't find a jumper, he may have a tougher time, but I think he's got enough of a back-to-the-basket game that will mask that. Plus, he gets to the FT line quite a bit. Hard to keep a guy like that from getting his points. Biggest concern for me would be if he gets too heavy.
He's 6'9, 19 years old, and he's got a really soft touch around the basket. He can take his man off the dribble, and he's obviously a strong and explosive athlete. He rebounds like a maniac, AND he hits his free throws. Randle's going to be an above-average starting PF for whoever drafts him within a few years.
Doubt the NBA refs will allow him to play football like he did at Kentucky
6'9" guys who can dribble and shoot are a dime a dozen. I'm not saying Randle is going to be a flop but that type of player is all over the NBA.
6'9 and can dribble, sure. 6'9, 250 and can dribble, not so sure.
I think you take a TRUE SF...there will be 3 guys who are projected to go right where Detroit is picking...
Kyle Anderson, Rodney Hood, Doug McDermott.
Do your best to trade the boat anchor that is Josh Smith and take a young SG. You made your bed with KCP and Jennings so ride that out for another year.
If it's me, I take one of those SF (whoever can shoot the best) and a TRUE pass-first PG in the 2nd round.
C'mon back Mitch! You will be a lottery pick in 2015.
As this past season proved, that is no guarantee.
But it's a lot easier to get into the first round when it isn't a stacked draft. He should have left last year. That said, it would be a mistake to leave this year.
Agreed. He has a lot of room to move up from where he's at right now. Unless he misses another season because of injury (unlikely), he can't go down from here, and he'll likely go up quite a bit, just based on talent in the draft. And with the proposed 2 and done changes, the next draft should be much lighter, even if that change doesn't go into effect until 2016.
screenings somewhere and been undrafted needing back surgery and out of college I bet. Didn't Sullenger have that happen when he left OSU?
it is also not guaranteed that he gets drafted in the first round or even makes an nba roster.
At least we'll finally find out soon enough.
Vonleh at the 8th pick would be a pretty good value. Vonleh has really high upside, is the 2nd youngest player in the draft, rebounds great, great body and energy for a big, pretty good skill level already, and can stretch the floor a bit. Getting a Vonley type at 8 would be solid.
Still, it's hard to do any sort of mock when we don't really know the order at all yet.
Vonleh would be a steal at the 8, but he is not a fit for the Pistons even if they were able to dump Smith (or Monroe), which is highly doubtful. The Pistons need a 3, a 2, and a point--in that order. A trade of the 8th pick would make the most sense under that scenario. But Ford's mock draft, like most others, isn't really a prediction of the actual draft, but simply a ranking of the available players.
The pistons need a PG, not more forwards. They'll take either Ennis or Smart.
He shot 3-points under 30% last year. He's a driver and a guy that finishes mostly around the hoop, which isn't exactly the Pistons greatest need at the position.
IMO, I think that Smart's style of play and size is similar to that of Rodney Stuckey. A combo guard who specializes in making plays and getting to the basket. That will only get you so far in the NBA as we have seen with Stuckey. And although I like having Rodney come off the bench for the Pistons, I think that it is a waste using the 8th pick in the draft on a player like that.
you think Smith should continue playing the 3? Seriously? We don't have a real 3 on the team---unless you like Singler or Jerebko--and KCP is the only real 2 and his upside is still to be decided. I'd rather live with Jennings at the point and find a 3 than substitute Ennis or Smart and live with our unbalanced front line.
But Pistons aren't winning anything in 14-15, and Vonley is a project player with high value with the 8th pick. I doubt it comes to that, but I think Vonley would be a solid pick given the situation and what's available at that spot. It seems to me that Monroe or Smith has to go, and unfortunately, I don't think there is any way to get Smith off the roster anytime soon.
Play Smith at the 4, Drummond at the 5, let Vonleh develop behind them. In 15-16 you're probably still stuck with Jennings, but you can tend to pick up guards and wings for cheaper on the free agent market than bigs, who almost always get overpaid. If the Pistons bank the cap space from losing Charlie V and Stuckey (8.5 Mil each), Let Monroe go as hard as that sounds (4 mil + to resign) and let go of a couple 1-3 mil types (Bynum, Ditome, Singler) and drop Jerebko (4.5 mil), then you have a great core front court, at least one somewhat skilled scorer, and next year (which will likely be about the same as this year regardless) you pick up a wing/PG, and head into 15-16 with some free agent money to sign those positions, and maybe this team is competitive again. Bigs get hurt and don't play a lot of minutes, you really need at least 3.
Now, I understand that's not entirely optimal, but I just don't see a lot of great options picking at 8 that work much better. If you can trade down, resign Monroe, and still get your guy, then you can work with that in ways too. But Monroe is going to require some decent money, and he likely forces Smith to stay at the 3, which isn't great either.
that if Vonleh were to be available at 8, it would be great for the Pistons because someone below them must need and covet Vonleh, creating a perfect opportunity for an advatageous trade.
Would like to point out that all of this discussion is based on the assumption that the Pistons even get a pick. They traded it away but it's top-eight protected, so if we fall one spot in the lottery, we lose it. Would be so disappointing.
You know it's bound to happen
The Pistons are the second-worst team in the league at three-point shooting and it's not just because of Smith.... almost the whole team is balls at shooting threes. Stuckey definitely can't. Jennings is middling at best and usually worse than average. Neither McDermott nor Stauskas would do anything for this team's piss-poor defense but you can't fix every problem with just one player, and those two would certainly fix the shooting. I don't like Ford's BPA approach because that can sometimes create just as many problems as it solves in basketball, if you load up one position too much.
Outside shooting is one, but just scoring in general, defense, etc. If they end up with the 8th pick, I feel like McDermott and Stauskas would both be a reach, and the players above that aren't great 3-point shooters either. Wiggins, Embiid, Parker, Exum, Randle, Vonleh, Gordon, Smart, all below average 3-point shooters. If the Pistons could move down (which will likely be difficult at their position) and get something out of it, say to 10-15, they could actually get some players for the right price that fit some of their needs: Stauskas, McDermott, Harris, Payne, Young.
Harris may honestly be the best fit for them, a natural 2/3, one of the better perimeter defenders in the draft, and when not tasked with carrying the offense is at worst a hot/cold shooter, but I think would prove better than that eventually. 8 isn't a great position for the Pistons for all their needs.
the idea of drafting Harris, if the Stones don't either get lucky and leap into the top-5 or unlucky and drop out of the first round. Pairing him with a (hopefully) improved KCP would give the Pistons two 3-and-D guys playing substantial minutes on the wings, which, you know, are two things the Pistons didn't have last year (3s and perimeter D). I don't know if either KCP or Harris have the size to match up with bigger SFs, but they'd be able to prop up the Jennings-Smith-Drummond defensive abomination a bit better than Stuckey and Singler. If everything works out, Smith doesn't have to defend SFs any more, Drummond sees some improvement, and the defense becomes competent. Competency is a playoff spot in the east.
To that I would argue: the Pistons' problem is chemistry, not talent. Nobody would argue that Monroe, Drummond, Smith, Jennings, etc. aren't very, very good at what they do. The problem is they can't do what they do, because the mix is bad. Too many players trying to do the same thing, and it forces some of them into doing what they're not good at. That problem isn't helped by taking someone who at best is only as good as the players they already have and plays the same position.
And if they don't, fire the new GM
Glenn might be super athletic but his game isn't elite right now.
NBA teams would rather take somebody who is super athletic who needs to work on his defense or jump shot (both of which are seen as teachable) rather than somebody who has a good shot but is too unathletic to get his shot off in the NBA or a good college defender who isn't athletic enough to do it in the pros. Although JJ Reddick was drafted high and has stuck around the pros, I think NBA teams have visions of what Tyrus Thomas did to him in the NCAA tournament (leading the skill-less Thomas to get drafted by a Bulls team that could have taken LaMarcus Aldridge with the second overall pick).
That, of course, doesn't mean that all super athletes become great pro players or that smaller and less athletic guys never prosper (and I'm no NBA scout so I take no credit or blame for their good or bad decisions). That just seems to be how they draft.
That's the big disconnect between GMs and coaches in the NBA, and its a big part of the reason bad teams are bad. GMs will draft a played based on potential and being able to teach him something. But, then they expect their coach to win 50 games and make the playoffs leaving little time to coach up a player since the coach has to win with what he has this season and not what he might have in 1-3 years. Because frankly if he doesn't win right away, he might not be the coach in 1-3 years. So why waste time teaching some raw prospect?
The reason good teams like the Spurs continue to thrive is that they draft based on players that will fit into their system. They already do things well and they can plug them in and they fill a roll.
Just like fit in a system in college recruiting is not always reflect in generalized recruiting rankings, or changing coaches can lead otherwise heralded recruits to underperform, an NBA (or NFL) GM and coach being on different pages will kill a team.
Hope Vonleh is still there when my Cavs draft. Because what they really need is another developmental project at the PF spot to complement Bennett and Thompson.
Drafting the same position in the first round year after year worked for the Lions, right?
Well, it did eventually lead to the Lions getting Megatron, so it kinda worked.
I'd take Megatron at power forward right now over anyone on the Cavs roster.
Would the Lions take Bennett and Thompson in a trade?
should really just try and unload Thompson. Decent player, but would probably be better off coming off the bench. Think Vonleh would be a great fit for them.
If they had a different coaching staff. Mike Brown's strong suit has never really been offensive player development, especially for young bigs.
At any rate, the Cavs will probably draft whoever they think is NBA ready, rather than on overall potential, bc the owner is convinced that the promised land is a 38-44 record, 8th seed in the playoffs and a first round sweep at the hands of the Heat.
junkie, that all sounds very familiar to me.
I hope they work something and are able to trade Tristan. He's a good player but not a cornerstone.
Ford says that Stauskas, at 13, "has unlimited range, a super-quick release, and as a bonus, he can play point guard in a pinch."
I know Nik has good handles for a guy his size, on the wing, but is he really quick enough to play PG in the NBA?
He could bring the ball up the court, I don't think that would be a huge issue, but I don't really see him running a true point ever either. Maybe get the team into their offense and then go back to doing his thing on the wing and running the pick and role, but he won't be Chris Paul out there. And I would hope he wouldn't have to guard PGs.
He's not a pg. His two weaknesses are defense and ballhandling.
See I never thought of ball handling as a weakness for him. He's not a Steph Curry (yet) but I don't think it's a weakness.
Is Mitch the only 1st roundish guy left who has not declared one way or the other? Deadline is Apr 27 and I cannot think of any other major player who has not made a decision. I know Beilein said health does not matter in decision but I have to believe that is a smokescreen of sorts to protect Mitch if he comes out. Makes me think Mitch might go to this weekend and the decision is essentially based on how he feels and how he projects he will feel a few weeks after in terms of can he physically go battle in individual workouts.
(of course pure speculation)
Other ones to look out for in addition to the Harrison twins: Clemson's KJ McDaniels, UConn's DeAndre Daniels, and Colorado's Spencer Dinwiddie. This article from last week is a little dated as some of the players listed have already made their decision:
Draft Express has an early entry list page that includes constantly updated lists of who's in, who's not, and who's undecided. Scroll down for the "Undecided/Unknown" list.
late in the season, I'd be surprised if he came out
McDainels declared and is expected to go in round one.
Could anyone tell me who he has the Bulls taking with their two picks? It'd be greatly appreciated.
... and Adreian Payne at 19.
Thank you very much.
many mock drafts have the Bulls taking Nik with one of those picks. At first blush, Nik didn't seem like a good fit with Thibodeau, but the Bulls really need someone to stick 3s. And Nik may learn to play better defense in that system.
Derrick Rose-Jimmy Butler-Nik Stauskas-Taj Gibson-Joakim Noah.
That's a title-winning lineup right there.
That requires the old Derrick Rose and odds are we will never see him again. He is approaching Grant Hill territory in terms of injuries.
He has GR III at #33 in his top 100. Ford also has Jerian Grant at #31, but most reports have Grant returning to Notre Dame for a 4th year after his academic suspension. I have a feeling GR III is going to sneak up into the bottom of the 1st round like Hardaway Jr. when it is all said and done though.
Ford is not as high on Mitch McGary as some other sites (like SI and DraftExpress) placing him at #43.
Frankly, he's only a potential 1st rounder because of 'potential' and the fact that he's a really tall, muscular jumpy guy. He's going to work out for teams and do jumpy dunky things and someone is going fan themselves while saying "My stars!" and draft him around #20
I disagree. He's a heady player who doesn't force things and does a lot of intangibles. He probably won't ever be a star in the NBA, but there will always be a need for chemistry guys like him on teams like Miami and OKC, where you already know where the ball will be most of the time. Especially since, unlike most chemistry guys who are shooting or defensive specialists, GRIII will require the opposing team to use one of their athletic defenders on him. He'll have a long career and probably play a key role in winning a few championships.
I think you're wrong about Robinson being a shooting or defensive specialist. He's neither of those things. And since he's not a threat to create and score on his own, there's no reason to place an athletic defender on him.
I hope I'm wrong, but I think he's going to have a real hard time making it in the NBA. He's going to have to up his energy level significantly and since the NBA season is such a long grind, I just don't see that happening. He drifted in and out of games for two years here, what makes you think that'll change when there's 2.5 times as many games to play?
I think this is another Darius Morris -- 3-4 years in the league before he's off to the D-League or Europe.
I didn't say he was a shooting or defensive specialist. His specialty would be using his althleticism in transition and off the ball on offense, which isn't as common for those types of players. He can create scoring his opportunities without the ball (as opposed to lingering at the 3-line while his defender plays help defense and in a different way than simply lurking for putbacks), which is important in a league where the role of superstars is to dominate the ball. He'll be able to play his game without everyone expecting him to be a dynamic one-on-one player, and the fact that he rarely forces shots or takes bad shots will be an asset (by giving away shot opportunities the superstar(s) could have had). He'll be a more talented version of the Battier or Fisher mold, and while not a 3-point specialist right now, he will develop into a long-range threat after a couple seasons in that role.
Sorry, misread your comment. But I don't think athleticsism off the ball is a viable skill in the NBA, because almost everyone (especially at the 3) is athletic off the ball. Especially for guys coming off the bench who don't have enough of a skill set to start. Just a bunch of dudes that are athletic that teams are hoping develop some other skills. So if you're on par with the rest of your peers, you need something else to set you apart. Glenn doesn't have that right now. And my personal opinion is that he's not going to have enough time in the NBA to develop that "something else" because it is such a sink or swim league. Being able to catch some alley-oops only buys you so much time.
That's not true at all. GRIII's bball IQ is very high, and he's more athletic and skilled than, as one example, Sefolosha, who's been doing it for almost a decade. It's more sink or swim in the NBA for one-on-one iso guys and less athletic skill players, since that's what the league is flooded with. Otherwise, it's really not superstar or nothing.
but I wouldn't use heady or 'brings intangibles' do define him. He couldn't create his own shot and couldn't ball handle at all (see: most of the time when he tried to bring it up court by himself). His only shots are GRAHHH dunks and 6 inches inside the 3 pt line.
I like the guy...but he doesn't create for himself. He needs to be assisted at all times. Hopefully he sticks but I am foreseeing bench time for him.
OTOH, he was playing the 4 for Beilein a lot so maybe a move to the 3 will be great for him.
No matter what the highlights and commericials say, basketball's really not all one-on-one isolation. He won't be asked to create for himself by penetrating off the dribble. And there's certainly not an abundance of efficient mid-range shooters in the NBA. He spaces the floor well, makes good decisions with the ball (unless you want "be more aggressive and score 30" to be the decision -- the team's offensive efficiency without him doing that says it wasn't necessary), and feeds off of, without detracting from, a team's primary offensive weapons.
Just takes one GM to fall in love with the potential and draft him. I could see someone like Charlotte at #24, Phoenix at #27, or the Clippers at #28 taking him.
however, the T-wolves do not even have a head coach due to Adelman retiring. Not sure you can know what they want in the draft. That said - of course they would want Stauskus
epic screen name...
McGary was not at our psych final today. Don't know what that means exactly
Maybe he already had a guaranteed C and he didn't have to show up.
Or he arranged to take it on a different day for whatever reason.
I would imagine that John Beilein expects his guys to finish the school year, regardless of what their decisions for the next year are.
I can't see why Beilein would be alright with McGary ditching his final, even if he was planning to leave school. Either way, don't read into it too much.
There's nothing to report until there's something to report.
Is that correct?
I like how people downvoted you for simply stating a fact and they aren't happy with it.
I downvoted him because nobody on the internet has a right to know about McGary's academic comings and goings.
Chad Ford sucks at draft placement and his scouting is atrocious
If only there was a place for your work to be posted for the world to see, and to have Chad Ford tell you how much you suck on a college blog.
NOT CHAD FORD, SERIOUSLY
How does he update his board every week? It's not like these guys are combining and camping right now are they? Stauskas and GR3, to my knowledge, are both working out in A2. It seems weird to me that draft positions would change weekly when none of these kids are even competing against or with each other at the moment or holding open workouts for teams like football players do.
He states pretty clearly off the top that a ton has to happen between now and the draft (workouts, the actually lottery to determine the order, GMs getting hired, etc), but people like mock drafts, so he makes a mock draft. I'm sure if it was up to him he'd wait to do it, but you gotta give the masses their mock drafts. It'll probably be one of the most read artciles on ESPN.com today.
opinions can change as people (his sources and those sources' bosses) digest tape, have conversations with scouts, have conversations with each other - they will obviously change a lot more during workouts and in-person interviews, but there's plenty that should be in flux, even now.
I think Glenn will be a fine player in the NBA - but he made a huge mistake declaring for the draft. Could have easily been a lottery pick next year if he was able to step up and be the #1 banana on the '14-'15 squad.
No matter how Ford's mock changes, he'll be lucky to be picked in the late first round.
I want the Cavs to draft Nik (I hate making this comparison but he reminds me a lot like a Chandler Parsons or Klay Thompson) but it's hard to be upset with Doug McBuckets.
That is a ridiculous mock draft selection. The Pistons have already come out and said that they will match any offer Monroe gets, so I have no clue where the hell Ford is getting his info from.
The Pistons basically have to hope that the ping pong balls fall their way so that they can nap either Wiggins or Embiid. Barring that, they pretty much have to hope Smart slips due to character concerns. If the top 7 picks play out per Ford's mock, I wouldn't be opposed to selecting Stauskas, Harris, or even James Young.
But who on the Pistons is saying that? Those match any offer reports were all from February. They currently don't have a GM or a coach, so who knows what they'll do.
The idea that the Pistons are going to let a 23 year old big man who averages 15 and 9 on 50% shooting, who can make his free throws and is an excellent passer out of the post, walk is absurd. He is the second most valuable commodity the franchise has.
If the new GM lets Monroe walk for nothing he might as well start packing his bags because his stay will not be long.
he would be worth the max contract, but he's a terrible defender. I wouldn't give Moose a max contract tbh. The Pistons are better off sign and trade Moose or even better trade Josh Smith.
I will be fuckin furious if the Bulls draft Hairston and Payne with Hood/Warren/Napier still on the board.
bulls fan here.....Napier is not needed if you plan on keeping Augustine (which I hope we do. Payne makes since because we need a young backup for Noah. I think Hairston, Hood and Warren are interchangeable because they are all wing scorers who can shoot. I would prefer Warren or Hairston over Hood though
I doubt they'll be able to afford Augustin. He's playing too well and would surely want too much. I agree they need a back up C to replace Nazr, and I was hoping for Cauley-Stein but Payne isn't that player. He's a stretch 4, not a 5. And the definitely need a scorer (Warren) instead of a shooter (Hairston), whereas Hood is kind of in the middle.