CC: Will Gator sway many opinions here?
Happy hols, everyone. With the Gator Bowl just days a way, I'm wondering re the degree to which a big win or loss would influence opinions of RR here. In other words, would a win silence many in the anti-RR camp? Would a loss -- a double-digit one -- push many pro-RRs in the anti camp?
And what about the undecideds? It's my sense that most people are somewhat on the fence. I could be wrong -- I usually am -- but I just get the sense that a big win or loss would tip a lot of opinions. Am I wrong?
December 25th, 2010 at 3:40 PM ^
Because I'm still not sure what the best thing for Brandon to do. I will say it can make the appearance of his decision easier or harder. 7-6 doesn't really look like that much of an improvement, and would be a hard sell on a return, or make a fire easier. Likewise a win would at least add some momentum to a return next year, while making a new coach a more questionable decision.
December 25th, 2010 at 4:21 PM ^
The only changes we need to make are on the defensive staff and special teams. They have not done their job the past 3 years. Im not necessarily saying Greg needs to go, but everyone else should be given the boot.
December 25th, 2010 at 4:28 PM ^
Gator is just another data point, just like 2011 recruiting class, current 7-5 season, previous 3-9 and 5-7 seasons, our 3 OT win over Illinois or double digit losses to Wisconsin and OSU......For most, they will find a way to have it reinforce whatever it is they currently think. For DB, who knows?
Let's watch the game and root for the guys wearing those great maize and blue helmets and remember that they have worked hard and done their best, which is all we can ask of them. Those are our boys on that field, and whether they were 4 star defensive tackles who got moved to o-line or a gutty walk-on safety named Kovacs, we owe them our support because they represent us.
After the game, you can all start back on what we should do with any or all of the coaches.
Meanwhile, watch the B-ball boys play Tuesday against Purdue and see how they have improved from last year.....
December 25th, 2010 at 4:54 PM ^
Seems as if most RR supporters feel strongly that he, like any coach, deserves at least four years. At the same time, though, many or most of these same people have been calling for Gerg's head/hair since midway through his second season. Gerg, despite all the injuries and attrition and youth -- all the mitigating factors everyone loves to cite -- hasn't been afforded anywhere near the leeway RR gets.
But Gerg is RR's guy. RR, to the puzzlement of many, hired Gerg to replace a DC that turned out to be quite talented. But now the same people who've been trying to run Gerg out of town feel RR deserves a four-year pass. The disparity is sort of absurd.
December 25th, 2010 at 4:57 PM ^
That's how folks roll in the MGoBubble. RR gets excuses. Assistants hired by RR get fired.
December 25th, 2010 at 5:51 PM ^
There is no "disparity" in thought regarding RR and GERG. RR's job is to get his own people in and win games. GERG's job is to coach the players RR gets him and stop someone once in awhile. Besides, RR's passion is offense, and his offense has done quite well. They are number six in total offense in the country, and Denard is number three individually.
Most people who want GERG gone think that the philosophical differences regarding the 3-3-5 between him and RR is a detriment to the offense. When the DC doesn't agree with the HC, it is the DC who usually departs.
I have mixed emotions on GERG. I want to see what he can do without having to have seven freshmen in his two-deep, but I don't know if RR, assuming he stays, can take the risk of the defense not becoming at least average under him. If RR does make it back, this will be his determining year. He won't have any of his own fifth-year players, but he will have plenty of fourth-year players who were pressed into action early.
Two big rivals, MSU and OSU, are losing a lot of people next year. Michigan's schedule really looks like they have a chance to start 10-0 going into the Nebraska game if things go right. This is assuming, of course, that the players aren't having to learn how to run the pro set.
All the defense really has to do next year is be average for Michigan to have a great chance to make it to the BTC game next year, where maybe a little revenge on Wiscy for this year would be appropriate.
Consequently, it is more essential that RR comes back than it is that GERG comes back. That is no "disparity of thought;" it is just logic.
December 25th, 2010 at 8:48 PM ^
This, exactly.
Although I would add that I think it's a waste of everyone's time to keep Gerg around if RR is insisting on him running the 3-3-5. Michigan loses games because he isn't a 3-3-5 specialist, Gerg's resume takes a hit, and RR probably loses his job.
Either let Gerg run his scheme or let him go someplace he can (try to) succeed. Personally, I don't think he's a very good coach, but then again, who the hell am I?
December 29th, 2010 at 12:59 PM ^
The 3-3-5 isn't brain surgery, it doesn't take more time than an off season of tinkering to get a hold of it for your self, you still have to play football in the end. This team is horrific on defense because we don't have any players to field, none of them make it here. Which brings us back to Rich Rodriguez.
December 25th, 2010 at 9:25 PM ^
December 25th, 2010 at 6:27 PM ^
The use of "MgoBubble" is already tiresome and kind of stupid...and you have been using it for less than a day.
December 25th, 2010 at 7:15 PM ^
I've noticed that Dahblue has been referencing "MGoBubble" for nearly 3 weeks. Starting here:
http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/cc-mgobubble
I completely agree with you though; it's a very ignorant label on the readers of MGoBlog. What makes the label so ironic is that, by completely disregarding any rationale that has been pointed out on the pro-RR side of the Michigan fanbase, he creates his own "MGoBubble" in the process.
December 26th, 2010 at 4:40 PM ^
Not so fast, my friend. While I appreciate your good eye with regard to the MGoBubble (a term I coined some time back and was encouraged to post about further), there is no reason to disregard any pro-RR rationale. Indeed, he has done well at other schools. He does have a young team. He is a Michigan Man. He cares deeply for his players.
The difference for those in the MGoBubble is that they cannot accept the notion that RR might not be the guy for Michigan. There are arguments for both sides, but those in the Bubble refuse to even acknowledge that a reasonable person might want RR fired.
December 26th, 2010 at 5:29 PM ^
Not sure who you are referring to in this bubble. I support RR, but if he was let go and JH or BH or someone else replaced him. I would be fine. Not a big fan of if we don't get JH, we keep RR. You fire RR if he hasn't done the job. You don't keep him if you think he has failed.
Only problem I have, is that I wish we were done and we can move forward with RR or not.
December 25th, 2010 at 10:40 PM ^
Excellent straw man!!
Head coaches are responsible for more than DCs are. The defense is FAR below average. The football team is NOT far below average.
Therefore Gerg is doing a much worse job than RR.
December 25th, 2010 at 5:28 PM ^
i think this game is huge for public perception. a win would silence some and calm many. a loss will bring the anti-RR noise to a fever-pitch I think. even though it's against the #20 team. ESPECIALLY, if we do another "go down by 20 in the first half, fight back to make it look respectable, lose" type game
December 25th, 2010 at 7:27 PM ^
I'm just hoping RR stays one more year regardless, I like this offense, and with an improved defense, I like where things are heading...my only concern would be size and toughness against Big Ten foes, but maybe another year under Barwis in the weight room will help...
December 25th, 2010 at 7:38 PM ^
You see no disparity whatsoever? None? Good lord.
December 25th, 2010 at 7:39 PM ^
Short of coming out and destroying them like 50-0, this game won't change my opinion at all.
December 25th, 2010 at 7:55 PM ^
I'm not sure that will happen at this point, regardless of the bowl game, but I believe a coach should be given four years.
That being said, if we come out completely flat and get rolled, it will be very deflating. The PSU game was a breaking point for many this year, myself nearly included. I want RR back. I think he will turn the corner, but I can understand the reasoning of those who feel otherwise.
No matter what happens, I'm just excited to see our boys in a bowl game again. They earned it, and I will be cheering very loudly from my couch.
December 26th, 2010 at 5:39 PM ^
I just don't understand why Penn State changed the opinions of people. It was a night game at Penn State. Very hostile environment, especially for the young team that we have. Penn State also played the QB who gave them the best chance to win. Robert Bolden will end up being a very good quarterback but he was replaced by a QB who is more productive and makes less mistakes. People who are rational about Michigan's lack of experience, especially on defense, should not be surprised that we lost to Penn State.
I believe RR is back regardless of the Gator Bowl outcome. His losses this season have been to really good, experienced football teams. Michigan is not an experienced football team at this point. Next year will be a very successful year after RR is brought back to coach. Patience Michigan fans. I hope some of the Michigan faithful make a New Years resolution to cultivate their patience, it really is a virtue.
December 26th, 2010 at 6:06 PM ^
Just my opinion, not sure of others, but my support of RR definitely was shaken by PSU. I understand that it's tough to play there, but I thought we were a better team. I thought after 2 weeks off, we would see some new plays and renewed intensity. Instead they came out flat on offense and the defense couldn't stop anything. Same old mistakes from the previous losses were repeated. I know the defense is young and everything, but the bye week seemed like it hurt us rather than help us.
Also, after the loss, I was worried about making a bowl and having a winning record. ILL beat PSU soundly and I was worried that we couldn't beat them the next week. Before the loss, I couldn't understand why people were not willing to give RR a chance, after the loss, I could see why. In short, just looked like a team that either wasn't coached well and needed a change. Again, just my opinion.
December 29th, 2010 at 11:23 AM ^
....And what should have been an easy one at that, against a team without an identity, starting a walk-on sophmore quarterback, under achieving (up to that point) running back. It was the perfect set-up for a signature win for the RRod program at U-M at night on National Television in front of a hostile crowd and instead he laid a giant egg and showed that this team was a pretender against the top tier of the B10, something that was borne out against Wisky and the Buckeyes. Way back in '97 a Michigan team established it's identity against a really good PSU team in the same setting. RRod couldn't get it done against a PSU team that really isn't that good. The table was set RRod failed to deliver. He needs to go....
December 26th, 2010 at 8:24 AM ^
+ winning bowl game in florida where are pipeline is only makes it stronger which makes me want to see what that will do for this and next years recruiting class.
- I've only been alive for 19 years but cheering hard for the blue for 16 and these last 3 have absolutely tore my heart out and I live in Ohio on top of it so immediate success would be much nice.
- hell we're michigan, what happened to 5 stars just falling into our laps and 8/9 win seasons being down years?
- was watching the 1986 nebraska game and I must say JH looks good in Maize and Blue and I wouldn't mind seeing pride stickers again but thats just me. (wish i was alive for that game)
So overall I'm still in between because I have a sick obsession with recruiting and a win in Florida might be fantastic from a recruiting stand point for RR but how much longer must I deal with this pain (of living in Ohio) (near .500 seasons)
December 26th, 2010 at 10:25 AM ^
No, Bowl games are meaningless outside of the championship game. And do you really want to gauge your season/coach on MissSt?
December 26th, 2010 at 1:44 PM ^
Personally, the bowl game won't change my stance either way. I have felt that RR, or any head coach for that matter, needs at least 4 years. That gives the players, that were recruited by that coach, the time to become upper classmen. A blowout loss would probally cause me to lose some faith going forward, but it wouldn't change my ultimate opinion.
As far the disconnect that some posters brought up, between RR being given a 4th year and GERG not being given more than 2 years, the logic for that is pretty simple to me. RR has had quite a bit of success in the last ten years, at WVU. Meanwhile GERG has produced only one good defense in 10 years. Don't get wrong the hiring of GERG does fall on RR ultimately, and I still don't understand why it was made. The difference between the two, however, is that there is some evidence based on WVU's success under RR to believe he could be successful here if given more time, while GERG has shown almost nothing the last 10 years to make you think that.
I certainly understand the opinion on the other side of the keep RR or not debate, but I think there is a rational base for the difference of opinion between RR and GERG.
December 26th, 2010 at 5:11 PM ^
December 26th, 2010 at 6:01 PM ^
For those wanting him fired; they'll still think that regardless of the game's outcome.
For those wanting to be retained; they'll still think that regardless of the game's outcome.
The only people that may be affected are those that are undecided or apathetic about it all. They could start to lean one way or the other after this. But not all that far.
December 29th, 2010 at 1:08 PM ^
December 29th, 2010 at 9:45 PM ^
that's not something you can simply teach.