landing spot. will be interesting to see how he does.
I'm just going to ask, is there really a need for more of this? I know you put the "CC" on it or whatever, but damn, isn't everyone tired of this yet?
I rarely post, but I have to say I'm amazed at these 'enough of this' posts. I am here, on this site, to read about RR/JH. I'm fascinated by the situation. There is nothing much else going on. Michigan football this month is all about RR/JH. The bowl is a sideshow. If DB were going to endorse RR, he would have already. There is obviously something going on behind the scenes that will affect Michigan football for the next decade or more. This post was outstanding and interesting. The author should be congratulated for his good work. And I will be checking this site every few hours for any tidbit of news/analysis about this situation.
[Insert personal attack here]
[Insert numerous swear words here]
[Insert other general inappropriate response here]
Seriously people. Why? For the love of whatever higher being exists, why?
Did you actually read the post? It was far more interesting than the average "CC" post and looked at the issue from a new angle.
This is a point that not many of us have thought of and talked about. Now I know your sick of it, in which case DON'T READ THE FREAKING THREAD.
People are going to talk about this, and they should. It is a very important to the future of a football program that we all care about very much. I would also like to say that the people that often "don't want to tlk about it anymore" are the supporters of RR. At this point I don't care if it is Rich Rod, Harbaugh, Bill Clinton, Gerald Ford from the grave, David Brandon himslef, or Tom from the corner store. The coaching position at Michigan is going to be debated untl we get back to 9 wins again, beat MSU, beat OSU, and play defense. So debate on, and +1 to the author for a well written post.
That so many people would want to discuss. If the topic that may hugely change Michigan Athletics for the better or worse isn't something that interests people, maybe leaving the Michigan Blog for a couple of weeks would be a good idea. Unless that Women's basketball open thread is going to be started by one of the complainers soon.
Check the thread - my response was not to the OP, silly. It was to Germany Shultz's post.
I don't think that's necessarily true, infact I strongly believe if we win whatever bowl game it is we go to that Rich Rod will be back again next year. If we lose however, I think Dave Brandon will look into looking for another head coach (Jim Harbaugh) and if JH doesn't want the job RR will still get another year. DB heasn't said anything yet because DB doesn't know anyting yet.
What's going on in Brandon's mind? There are three possibilities:
1) That he's already decided to keep RR next season, but is keeping quiet until after the bowl.
2) That's he's already decided to fire RR, but is keeping quiet until after the bowl.
3) That's he's genuinely undecided and will make a final judgment after the bowl.
#2 and #3 are very much possible. #1 isn't. No AD would ever leave his coach stewing in the wind if he could avoid it. You never want uncertainty. If RR's his guy, he'll tell it to the world.
It's possible that RR will survive as our coach, but if so, it will almost certainly be as a result of #3 - a post-bowl decision.
I think #3 would be the most likely answer, I honestly feel that the bowl game will decide if RR stays or goes, although I feel that if there isn't a big name coach (Jim Harbaugh) interested in the job that DB will stick with RR for another year. Personally I'm torn between if I want him to go or not. I am extremely frustrated with him, especially the lack of beating OSUcks mainly because I live in Columbus. But on his defense the team has shown alot of improvement, and when i say that i mean Denard Robinson has shown alot of imporvement. I think one more year would be fair, just to see if he can turn our defense into something. It's already at rock bottom so thankfully it can't get any worse, only way to go is up.
I think "stewing in the wind" is my new favorite mixed metaphor. I'm as happy as a fox about it, in fact.
I agree - you do make some interesting points.
While there is a ton of speculation in the OP, the one thing that I think is pretty clear is that RR's name came up late in the coaching search process. We all knew for days or weeks about the potential interest in Miles, Ferentz, Schiano, maybe Hoke. Simply, there were leaks. At no point during the search did RR's name leak out.
Why? Because he was not on the list - the search committee probably did not believe that they would be able to pry him away from WVU. So, it is likely that there was little due dilligence done on RR as to how the fit would work. And, with the search going poorly, and the possibility to land one of the 5 hottest and most successful coaches in the country, Martin, MSC and whomever else was involved made what at the time the right decision.
But, having a hot coach fall into your lap and smartly taking him when your coaching search is flailing around in a national embarrassment is very different than bring in RR to "drag Michigan football into the 21st century." I agree withthe OP that this was likely NOT the intent when RR was hired. Yes, we had gone through a few disappointing games, but we were still competing for the NC one year earlier. I am not so sure that those inside Schembechler Hall really wanted to knock down and rebuild the program. A minor renovation, perhaps, but nothing of the magnitude of reshaping the whole program.
OP, great, thought provoking post.
with the Shotgun Wedding metaphor.
I mean, if the idea behind the hire was to "drag Michigan football into the 21st century", why did Martin offer Schiano (and possibly Ferentz) beforehand? It doesn't compute.
because he was (at the time) by pretty much common consensus, one of the absolute, no-foolin', 5 or ten best coaches in the entire country. While the process was messy, characterizing it as "an act of desperation" is, quite frankly, utterly absurd. Hiring a coach with the track record that Rich Rodriguez had at the time he was hired can never, ever be considered an act of desperation.
I agree that his track record made him attractive to Michigan. However, I think our decision to offer and his decision to accept had more emotion than reason. Rodriguez wasn't even on our radar until he had his falling out with West Virginia (we had offered Schiano beforehand). He was wounded by West Virginia not accepting his demands. I certainly think Martin was anxious (maybe desparate) for a good outcome given the circus that was happening around him. So everything came together in Toldeo over the weekend.
Hindsight being 20-20, perhaps both parties are wishing they had slowed down and really thought about the transition process before pulling the trigger. In that context, Brandon's deliberate process seems entirely reasonable.
and would firmly hope both Bill Martin and Rich Rodriguez would make the same choice today.
No disrespect to the author, but a lot of this seems plain made up. Maybe I'm wrong.
No one has made the argument "we should keep Rich Rodriguez because he is revolutionizing Michigan football, which is what he was brought here to do." People are arguing that we should keep Rich Rodriguez because he's a coach with a fantastic track record who has a brilliant (and yes, innovative) offensive mind, and who has made great strides with the offensive side of the ball that we hope can be paired with even an average defense to accomplish awesome things. It's not that the argument is wrong (which I think it is). It's that the argument is a complete non-sequitur from the actual debate at hand.
about how those supporting Rodriguez's firing are wrong (and possibly insane) when they say that keeping Rodriguez would incur the wrath of Cthulhu and result in us all dying horrible, painful deaths. It wouldn't really be all that helpful though, because no one is actually making that argument.
It's already begun....
But not Communist Football. He's in it for the revolution.
I would point out that the main reason Rich Rodriguez wasn't included in the search is because nobody thought he was available. He was a WVU native and a WVU graduate, and had just turned down Alabama the previous year.
While it is true that Martin didn't go out explicitly seeking an innovative offensive coach, it is also true that a huge portion of the fanbase was frustrated by the underperforming on-the-field product, and wanted innovative offense.
It's worth noting that Bill Martin repeatedly put Rodriguez's offensive style front and center when describing the hire:
"I am thrilled to have Rich Rodriguez as Michigan's new coach," athletic director Bill Martin wrote in an e-mail to The Associated Press on Sunday. "Rich brings an exciting brand of football to Michigan Stadium. We welcome the entire Rodriguez family to Ann Arbor."
As THE_KNOWLEDGE would say,
I know Go Blue Wolverine isn't very popular on this site, but I was a premium member there during the search and this is pretty much how it was relayed by the "insiders" at GBW, except the part about Miles actually being offered; according to GBW he never was offered the job IIRC.
EDIT: I forgot to point out that the only thing I am agreeing with is the coaches who were offered: Ferentz, then Schiano (who accepted, then changed his mind) and RR's agent is the one who initiated the talks with Michigan. The stuff about Lloyd's illness and Miles' affair was never confirmed by any source on GBW.
This thread has certainly recieved some powerfully written comments, more than I possibly could have guessed. Your comment shows me one place I did a poor job IMO.
I said a backchannel deal was struck and then portray Miles as desperate to know if he has the job. This is clearly inconsistent.
My understanding is this: A backchannel contact had been made with Miles, a deal in principle may also have been made, but a formal offer had to await a personal interview of Miles that Bill Martin was insisting upon. The interview was to take place after the SEC championship game. Thus Miles quandry: Miles was close to a deal, but did not yet have an offer in hand. That's why Miles needed to talk to Martin. Martin, thinking everything was all set up for the next week, went sailing.
As far as Lloyd's illness is concerned, what the illness is is unclear, but that Lloyd had/has an illness is not even a secret. Jim Brandstatter even asked Lloyd about it on Michigan Replay.
As far as Miles affair is concerned, this rumor goes back to when Miles left Michigan when Lloyd became head coach. It has been repeated many, many times. I put (Lloyd's?) in parentheses with a question mark to indicate that it was a guess. I thought that would be implicitly understood.
Neither Miles' alledged affair nor Lloyd's ilness was necessary to include. The point could have been made without mentioning them.
Considering the reaction the post has received from some, it clearly could have been made better by leaving them out. If the thread wasn't so old and hadn't received so many comments already, I would be tempted to edit them out.
Of this Michigan Replay where Lloyd's "illness" was discussed. Or frankly, any evidence.
As I heard it, Les Miles was going to be offered until it was found that he had been using Lloyd's illness against him with negative recruiting the prior year. Once that was verified, he was out of the picture. It wasn't as one-sided as it appeared to be. For that reason alone, Les would not be re-offered by DB.
This wasn't some sudden discovery. Carr knew back in 2006 that Miles was spreading rumors about his health because recruits were telling him so. I'm fairly certain Martin never intended to offer Miles. Where Herbstreit got that story from remains unclear. My guess is that someone in the Miles camp leaked it.
I had always thought Herbstreit got his info from Desmond as the OP claims. It makes too much sense. It wasn't until I started reading mgoblog that I realized there were other opinions on that part of the story.
That could well be the case, since I believe Desmond was in the pro-Miles camp. But at any rate, I'd be really surprised if we ever genuinely intended to go after him. My guess (nothing more than that) is that Miles wanted to float that rumor to build public support for his candidacy and force Martin's hand.
...And a BIG paycheck from LSU.
Wasn't he on the search committee?
yet Desmond mocked Herbstreit for his rush to pass on the info and being wrong during Gameday last week should show you where rumor deserves to be put.
This is news to me. I knew about the negative recruiting but never knew that was what Miles was telling kids. That is horrible. Miles is dead to me.
the OP's post is entirely based of legend and rumor. while he uses the caveat of "rumored to be," airing it out like this gives it far too much credibility than the idle speculation on boards that very well could have been made up in someone's basement and spoken of enough times to be given credibility.
I am hopeful that this will catch on. And, I note from the commentary, that it seems to have had its desired effect of cooling the hatred.
I am putting up the profitgoblue signal.
I'm having a very difficult time ruling on this one . . . First, there are lots of pieces of information in there that I did not know. I'm not sure if they are true or not (Carr has serious illness? Miles slept with the spouse of another coach on the staff?) but they intrigue me nonetheless. Second, this thread technically does not lobby for Rodriguez's firing, support the hiring of Harbaugh, and/or speak to Brandon needing to decide. It arguably falls under the "catch-all" provision but I'm not sure I want to invoke that here. I'll remain neutral here due to general interest with skepticism but, for the first time under the new Act, I'm open to suggestion as to this initial ruling . . .
And, if it is a close call, he did use CC. That should weigh in his favor.
I think PGB (and jhackney) are bound by the CC Detente Treaty and the Prohibition on Coaching Change Opinions Act of 2010, as amended (i.e., today), and are therefore reluctantly inclined to let this properly-labeled post go through without punitive legal or thermonuclear action.
However, Joshua remains on high alert.
AWESOME PIC! I'VE NEVER SEEN IT BEFORE!!! WHERE DID YOU GET IT??? THAT'S SO COOL!!!! YOU'RE COOL!!!! IT'D BE EVEN AWESOMER IF CMDR RIKER WERE NEXT TO HIM ALSO DOING A FACEPALM!!! DOUBLE FACEPALM FTW!!!! WOOO!!!!!
No, no, no. This is quite a bit of revisionist history. Lloyd wanted out. M's search floundered. RR was highly regarded, previously, and unsuccessfully, courted by Bama. He was the best candidate available. Period. His resume speaks for itself. To call him a desperation hire is flat out sophistry.
And to speculate about Lloyd's health? Crass.
Seriously, is any of this true at all? I've heard very different versions of almost every single thing you discussed, Miles absolutely did not hook up with Lloyd's wife (you've got the rumor wrong), and the speculation here is classless at best.
This is crappy fan-fiction.
"Miles absolutely did not hook up with Lloyd's wife"
I've keep hearing Miles did some terrible thing while he was an assistant coach, but never have really heard a specific rumor. This was the first I've heard, and it makes sense that no one talks about it. What is the right rumor that you refer to?
I've heard that he hooked up with another coach's wife, it came with a name, I've forgotten who - but it was not Lloyd.
It makes no sense within the frame of this ridiculous "theory" of course, that somehow has been pos-banged despite being completely idiotic and baseless. The guy got with Lloyd's wife, but Lloyd hates him because he spread a rumor about him being sick??? OK.
This is a very small step up from the amusement park thread, the OP ADMITS that this comes from "memory" of non-authoritative sources from 3 years ago and no insider info, it conflicts with far more competent accounts of all of this, and people act like he's adding to the board? Wow.
Wasn't Lloyd's wife.
Not trying to perpetuate any rumors here but I had heard it was Moeller's wife. That was part of the reason for Moeller's drunken tirade that led to his firing.
You're saying Lloyd may have Parkinson's and Miles may have had an affair with Lloyd's wife.
BTW the cow in your avatar has a really long tail. Or is that a dairy cat?
Plus, it made me laugh.
You can't milk a cat, Focker.
Somebody didn't read between the lines.
You mean the White Lines, flowing through my mind?
rang dang digedy dang de-dang.
Coke & Hookers aside, there is a lot of personal animosityy between Lloyd and Les. Les is very tight with Bill McCartney, following him to Colorado when he to the job there. Lloyd's 2nd wife is McCartney's ex. So there is an issue there. Plus it is rumored that Les did in fact have an affair with another coaches wife. Moeller's not Carr's. [This was told to me by a former Michigan player who is tight with Jerry Hanlon.] Add in the negative recruiting and you can understand why Lloyd and others would not bless this hire.
Now I am very sure the Parkinson's rumor was debunked a while back.
I believe we are headed in the right direction, RRod will get us there. He has to be given ample time.
Please be advised that you have violated the Prohibition on Coaching Change Opinions Act of 2010 (hereafter, the "Act"), profligated by Profitgoblue on November 30, 2010. In particular, you have violated Article 2(d) of the Act which states, in part: "Thou shalt not, under any circumstances, post a personal opinion with respect to whether or not Rich Rodriguez will be fired.."
Please be further advised that, pursuant to Article 3 of the Act, the minimum fine for this violation is the loss of one (1) MGoPoint, with the maximum to be determined by the MGoCommunity.
Please be further advised that, pursuant to Article 5 of the Act, if you dispute the application of the Act to your thread/post, you have twenty-four (24) hours to "file" a formal written appeal by replying to this post. All appeals will be considered on their merits as soon as practical, unless deemed to be frivolous by Profitgoblue in his sole discretion.
This is in a thread clearly marked 'CC'. I think this is an inappropriate application of the statute.
This notice was issued in response to the Natesezgoblue's comment, not to the OT. Sorry if that was unclear.
I'm satisfied with the judge's explanation.
RR having us in the right direction was not the point of the OP. The reply that was negged took it into the realm of THE ACT.
get that man with a beautiful smile a hat that fits?!
They should create a completely new style of hat for Denard.
The rare triple post. This call for breaking out the big guns:
Pictureof perhaps the greatest play in the history of ever.
Since we here at MGoblog agree on MAD (Mutually Assured DIStruction), I will refrain from nuking you in to Bolivian. If this post were a swing on some one in the coaching realm, I would have chosen a non-nuclear attack. Since it is a civil E-pinion under a CC heading thread you are safe as long as it stays on your side of the CC demilitarized zone. Congrats comrade, you have saved innocent lives and bloodshed.
Y was this not plausible, yet I couldnt stop reading. Still have no idea how u can say RR was desparation. Granted no chance he takes the job if WVU beats Pitt in the backyard brawl as they would have been playing for the NC, but he still had one of the best resumes out there.
For the record, the old rumor was that Miles slept with Moeller's wife, not Lloyd's. (A follow-up rumor holds that this is what drove Mo to drink that fateful night.)
Is there any evidence to back this rumor up? I mean, thats just a crazy rumor. Mind=blown.
wouldn't it be a fact instead?
Well, I don't think there's any photographic evidence. ;)
It's a pretty well-known rumor around the program. That's not to say it's definitely true, but it's been around a long time. It may be the reason for Miles's old nickname, "Loose Morals."
... wait for it... wait for it... Ball Boy!
... wait for it... wait for it... Ball Boy!
... wait for it... wait for it... Ball Boy!
I think you may have broken the internet....
that Bill Martin was a great businessman but not the best evaluator of coaching fit (see Cheryl Burnett) and got the AD job in part because the previous AD (Goss) was so gaddawful and anything would be better than him and while he did a great job with the financials and the facilities he was botching the coaching search and then he basically lucked into having one of the hottest coaching candidates possible fall into his lap and then did nothing to help that coaching candidate smooth any feathers that would be ruffled either at WVU or U-M because Martin's not a top-notch people person then well, I agree.
Ferentz was recommended strongly to Martin from various people, but Martin didn't feel he was a big enough name at the time...he was never called...
But if memory serves, Ferentz did apparently get the offer. I believe Brian reported it, and he's generally a decent source about these sorts of things.
"Schiano has coached Rutgers from (b)oblivion to respectability."
+1 for this.
and back again to (b)oblivion.
...request) that have not already been noted above:
- Lloyd did not retire under pressure following 2 losses to begin the 2007 season. Lloyd expressed an interest in retiring after the 2006 season and was talked into coaching one more year by Bill Martin. It certainly seems plausible that the fact that Lloyd's heart was not 100% into the job (due to his desire to have retired) played a part in the Horror taking place.
- The search committee put together by Martin to suggest a candidate suggested Les Miles . However...Martin/Carr ignored the advice, and a deal was never struck.
- This is my own opinion, but I'm sure Martin wanted the best coach for Michigan, period, not the "lowest maintenance". And Rich wasn't a "desperation" hire, but had a stellar resume...enough to have been offered the Alabama job the year prior PLUS an additional conference championship / BCS bowl bid in that subsequent year.
But I'm, in Brian's terms, "just a guy"....none of this is based on a direct source, just passing on my understanding of "Michigan lore".
Where does Jim Harbaugh come in to the narrative?
with you're comment!
Regardless of why Rodriguez was hired (whether it was explicitly to revolutionize the program, out of desperation, or simply because he was considered a damn good coach), the fact remains that he was hired with the knowledge that it would in fact result in a revamping of the program.
I was not among those who thought Michigan needed to be "dragged into the 21st century," and in fact I was never a big fan of the various spread offense incarnations. I was not big on the Rodriguez hire when it happened. But when it happened, I understoond that such a drastic shift in philosophy would require a painful readjustment period. Again, this remains true regardless of whether or not such a shift in philosophy was the reason for the hire; desired or not, the shift was there, and indeed this understanding was a reason some opposed the hire in the first place.
This is also irrelevant because at this point that shift is essentially complete. Regardless of whether or not he was brought in specifically to revamp our offense into something flashy and cutting edge, the fact is he has pretty much already done that. If that transition was the whole story, we probably would have challenged for a conference title this year and the posts prohibited on this forum by PGB would simply not be happening. As it happens, however, while the offense has emerged from a painful transition as something good and potentially phenomenal, the other two phases of the game have undergone an historic and incomprehensible collapse. A defensive/special teams transition was not really anticipated, and probably unnecessary; the depths to which they have sunk, even allowing for all the excuses (legitimate or not), is simply unacceptible. And I say that as someone who has supported Rodriguez since he was hired, even though I didn't like the hire, because I was "all in."
EDIT: And I also say this as someone who is not opposed to keeping Rodriguez on. What he's done with the offense is amazing, and it's not unthinkable to assume the defense will get to at least a level of "good enough" as they continue to grow and gain experience. I'm just rebutting the idea that the "wanted/didn't want a revolution" split is the reason for the divided fanbase at this current juncture, aside from those who simply didn't want Rodriguez to begin with and won't like him no matter what.
A lot of the opening post is rumors/info. The affair rumor, the illness rumor, etc. I've heard the affair rumors that Miles slept with Moeller's wife, which led to Moeller's drunken punching of a cop. I've heard he slept with other coaches wives. It has a thousand different flavors.
Those things aside though, I think the program was set up for pain starting in the early 2000s. A number of coaches under Carr started getting hired away by small schools at that point. Our response was to do things like rehire DeBord, etc.
Martin never made a play to pay those assistants and keep them here. Never made a play to set up a head coach in waiting gig. Closest we ever came was Ron English had that one good year and we talked about maybe promoting him until App State put an end to that.
In 2006 when Carr first wanted to retire Martin had to ask him to stay on. Two years later despite Bo, Moeller and Carr all having good coaching trees our options for hiring someone were: Miles (off an internal tree), Ferentz, and running around like a chicken with our head cut off.
Imagine if you will for a moment in 2008 if RR isn't feuding with WVU and looking for a way out. Who do we hire?
I really think Martin takes a lot of blame for this. He had a 2 year warning Lloyd was looking to retire (due to age, sickness, whatever) and he still screwed it up. He also did nothing to keep branches of the coaching tree at Michigan so we could promote from within.
Carr didn't have a good coaching tree. That was precisely the problem. The only one of his former assistants who has achieved anything at all is Hoke, and back in 2007 he wasn't much of a candidate. Originally, Carr's plan was likely for either DeBord or Herrmann to replace him, but DeBord failed miserably in his trial run at CMU while Herrmann's stock declined and he never got a HC job anywhere. Consequently, we were forced to go for an external hire.
The fact that this was bumped to diary makes me weep for the user-genreated content of this blog. This is fan-fiction of the worst kind. Speculating, twisted fiction masquerading as a "question about the past".
Please god save us...
click on TMZ.com by mistake? This is like a potpourri of bedbug-ridden, moldy rumors from Michigan's past. The stuff about Miles in particular is salacious and irresponsible unless you have some sort of verification.
Also: WOW, DID WE DODGE A BULLET! I forgot about Schiano. We as a fanbase would be having a very different conversation if he had gotten the job instead of RR right now...
How exactly can you verify that a man slept with someone's wife 15 years ago? All I can tell you is that that rumor is genuinely out there, and has been for a long time.
The fanbase would probably be unified. We'd all want him fired.
No matter how bad a coach is, there will always be some people who defend him. There were people defending Ellerbe to the end.
As pointed out by many others, this is unsourced rumor-mongering and gives blogs a bad name. While I do find some of the rumors interesting and thought provoking and even feasible, some of what is posted is just wrong - like the concluding point that Rich Rod was a desperation hire, when in fact he was as hot in 2007 as Harbaugh is in 2010.
This kind of baseless reporting has been torn apart time and time again on this blog. If there is anything to back up these claims, links need to be posted - or else this post is no better than the Freep writing a thought provoking article about how Michigan football may be endangering their student-athletes health and well-being. Just as the OP can claim that there may be a kernel of truth to a part of his story, the Freep can point out that Michigan did practice about 15 minutes too much by stretching. But the credibility of the writer is rightly damaged by information that is flat out wrong, and further damaged when things that may be true are not sourced at all.
Rather than be bumped, this should have been deleted.
How Brian was tracking the movement of private planes to and from the greater Ann Arbor area to try to figure out who was being interviewed...that was one of the best parts of the coaching search.
who bumped this thread please stand up...
It was me, because its length was diary-ific, and I was reading it cracking up thinking it was tongue in cheek. But I guess he wasn't clear enough that it was a "these were the rumors" rundown, and now on re-re-read I'm not so sure he was joking anymore, so de-bumped, move along, nothing to see here.
By the way: "Ed-M" is always me.
Good to know, Misopogon. Thanks, wasn't trying to be snarky (okay that's a lie, maybe I was), but I actually was curious. Good to know it was done by someone who knows what's up, even if I disagreed with it being bumped to a diary.
Thanks for all your work as Ed-M, then!
While I would certainly write it differently if I had to do it all over again and while I wanted it to read lightly, it wasn't meant as tongue in cheek. As I pointed out to Logan88 in a reply to his comment on page one, the rumors were not necessary to make my point. Clearly, I should have left them out.
they are your entire point
My point, in summary, is that some believe that Rodriguez was hired in order to revolutionize Michigan football, that this belief is incorrect and it leads to division.
If you think Rodriguez was so hired you must almost certainly want to see Rodriguez stay until the job is done.
If you think Rodriguez was hired to continue Michigan's tradition, you can't help but be dismayed at the play of the team.
The run-through of the coaching hire was to show that that wasn't how Rodriguez came to be hired. Talking about Miles' affair and Lloyd's illness was, unfortunately, superfluous. Sorry.
I can live with that.
Seriously though, maybe RR was just hired to coach the football team and then came in and assessed the need for the overhaul and finally had an AD willing to back him financially.
Edit: Oh yeah, when did we become MLive?
Sometime this past off-season, apparently.
Agreed when he was hired he is and was one of the top 10 coaches in America.
Those who stay will be champions the rest of ya go to hell
I have always wondered if Bill Martin knew that he was changing the entire offensive philosophy when he hired RR. The offense RR runs was unlike any of the other coaches he considered. What do you think? Did he make this hire in ignorance on that point? Did he seek input from his panel of experts of just hire in desparation?
Ferentz, Miles, Schiano and Rodriguez. Which one of these is not like the others?
I've often wondered what Martin was thinking. Did he consider RR to be a "steal" that fell into his lap? Did he just grab a name and not think of the program implications? He should write a book someday.
My "factual" answer: I don't know.
My "opinion": I don't think Bill Martin was ever a "football' guy. I think Michigan was taking a beating in the press. I think Martin was increasingly afraid of not getting an acceptable coach. Time was running out. When a coach of Rodriguez's stature (at the time) came to him, I think Martin looked for a way to get a deal done and was less critical in evaluating Rodriguez than he would have been, had say, 5 top candidates all applied and Martin got to choose his favorite
I think Martin jumped.
From everything I've read about Martin's coaching search, I believe that Rodriguez did indeed more or less fall into Martin's lap. Schiano and Rodriguez had the same financial advisor, Mike Wilcox, and it was Wilcox who suggested that Martin should contact Rodriguez.
I have no opinion or facts on how desperate Martin was at that point in the search, but he certainly was well aware of Rodriguez's offensive philosophy. This is from a Q&A that Jim Carty did with Martin on the day that Rodriguez was introduced as the new coach:
Q: Michigan's never seen a spread offense like Rodriguez's before, how do you think it will be received by the fans?
MARTIN: Based on my e-mail last night, which I finally read - after the announcement, I said, OK, I'm going to go see. The one I loved was "Strap on your seat, here we go." I think it's going to be exciting. I think our fans are very excited about the brand of football he helped bring to Michigan. It's going to be exciting. As we talked about it, he talked about the hurry-up offense - which he employs too, although he didn't mention it today. I think we're all going to be really excited to watch it. I don't think the press up in the press box is going to be going up for a cup of coffee at all. They're going to be making darn certain they stay there for every single play of every minute of every game.
Q: Was his background with the spread offense a factor in your decision?
MARTIN: It was a factor, but ... you know, not the sole factor. Yeah. Absolutely, it was. But we could have gone with a traditional offense, too. But I think (the spread) was clearly a plus. No question about it.
Q: How much did you take Rodriguez's offensive philosophy into account?
MARTIN: A little bit. I mean ... particularly from a football perspective, we looked at his record, and yeah, there's a wow factor, an excitement factor, to his style of football. It's fun. It's going to be fun. So, yeah, we looked at that as a plus, but if there hadn't have been a lot of other process, we wouldn't have gone in that direction.
So Martin knew about Rodriguez's offensive philosophy and in fact cited it as a "plus" in hiring him. It's quite possible that Martin didn't realize how radical a change this really was and how difficult the transition was likely to be. I'm guessing that during the interview that Rodriguez sold Martin on the idea that he would adapt his offense to the players on the Michigan roster at the time, and this was in fact what Rodriguez said he would do during the press conference at which he introduced as the coach:
On what he knows about the players on Michigan's current team that he will inherit and how they will fit into his scheme
"I know a little bit about them because I've watched them a little bit, but not much because we didn't play any common opponents. So I haven't seen them on film and I couldn't tell you much about their abilities, but I know they have some outstanding skill players.
"Sometimes there's misinformation about our offense, and obviously now, we've been more of a running team than a passing team in our spread offense. But we've always geared our offensive game plans or offensive schemes around our offensive skill players. In the past when we had great players and great receivers, we've been probably 55-60 percent pass back. When I was at Glenville and Tulane University, and then we've done more of the running stuff. So I will be able to evaluate our players here and see what best fits. The beauty about the spread is it's not like a wishbone or a Wing T or a West Coast where you see one and you see it all. This is a little bit different. Not every spread is like another spread.
"Now, there will be some transitions. I think that's always the case, you'll certainly have some different techniques and different plays and the first year is always the most difficult because no matter what sport you're in, what time you come in, your first year in transition is the most difficult. I had a few hecklers on the way to the airport yesterday saying, oh, you better not go 3-8 in your first year at Michigan like you did at West Virginia. It's tough. I didn't say anything, I just shook my head.
I remember it well, but wow, does it kind of smack you in the face in hindsight. I wonder how much he regrets not acting on his 2nd paragraph as much as he said he would. And the last couple of sentences at the end of it all - uhm, yeah.
If he doesn't regret making more of an effort to adapt his scheme to the offensive skill players he inherited, I believe he should regret it. I think he lost a ton of support that first year precisely because he imposed a system ill-suited to the players he had--particularly the quarterbacks. And, yes, i guess sometimes hecklers speak the truth.
The other thing that strikes me looking back is how little talk there was about the defense. In that summary of the press conference I quoted from above, there was only this little bit about Rodriguez's defensive philosophy:
On his defensive philosophy ...
"We ran a little bit of a unique style in our odd stack defense. I'm proud of our guys, I think they finished fourth in the country in total defense this year, and I want to do something similar, whether it's the odd stack or a variation of it. Our defense is pretty multi-dimensional, just like our offense. I have some ideas to do that, and again, I want to look and evaluate our personnel before making a final determination."
Again, he implies he's going to adapt to the personnel, but did he ever actually do this? Yet, the bigger issue is that Martin hired someone whose reputation was clearly made on the basis of his offensive philosophy, when Michigan football might have been better served with a more defensive-minded head coach.
It's quite possible that Martin didn't realize how radical a change this really was and how difficult the transition was likely to be
Yes, I have the strong impression that this is correct.
The whole story reads like an Oliver Stone movie to me. Lots of unsubstantiated rumor and innuendo (illness, affairs, leaks....). While it makes for a good read, I'm sure that plenty of it is fiction. Take it with a MAJOR grain of salt.
Miles was never offered the job.
Who was responsible for calling the plays and putting together the offense that put up 41 points on the Gators in the 08 Capital One bowl? After only putting 3 points on the board against OSU, our offense looked wide open in that game and Henne had the game of his life. THAT offense could have kept mallet and manningham (maybe) around and could have helped us avoid the last three years. Maybe.
Thanks for the background on the hire and post hire interview info. i'm not really convinced that Martin knew the implications of the hire. Unless someone else writes the book, we never will. On another note, could Martin have been on the boat intentionally so he wouldn't hear from Miles. This puts him in the position of not turning down Miles but, obviously, not hiring him either.
I've always thought this was actually the case. Martin wasn't a baffoon with Miles. He was being bombarded by the pro-Miles group including Dan Dierdorf and others who were going public. Then Miles was put in a position where he needed an answer and Martin made himself unavailable.
Again, I have no evidence nor am I claiming this is true, but no one has evidence that Martin was a moronic AD who forgot his cellphone and yet everyone seems to believe that's the case.
I think Martin's real screw up was overestimating how coaches view the Michigan job.
And I wonder what Desmond's real role was. Was he in the pro-Miles group and did he try to force Martin's hand or did he leak it to put Miles in a corner when Martin would be unavailable? And if that's the case was Herbie used by Desmond? Or did he agree to do it? Or was Desmond not his source? We'll likely never know...