is working on a hasty and lengthy rebuttal as we speak
FWIW. Michigan doesn't seem inclined to get re-involved.
is working on a hasty and lengthy rebuttal as we speak
....and drafting a letter to The Big Lead's ombudsman.
Who is Plan B/C/D?
Realistically we need at least 3 coaches we have a good shot with
who have unleashed vitriol and already given the post-mortem on RR bc "omgz of cours we cant keep RR, here we go Harbaw!" ... what happens when JH doesn't come to Ann Arbor?
one of the main things i don't get about people feeling the need to jump ship as quickly as possible, or at least as speedy as their amped up anger takes them.
People seem to be under the impression that if Michigan comes calling, Harbaugh jumps on the next plane. So while the "OMG FIRE RR NOW" crowd has a wind at its back right now, it is important to remember that firing him is the easy part, and it only makes sense if another "acceptable" coach takes the job.
RR returning for another year is not the nightmare scenario. The nightmare scenario is firing RR, Harbaugh goes to the 49ers, and Brady Hoke battles Ron English, John L. Smith, and Lou Brown for the Michigan coaching job.
People want their pound of flesh right now, and I understand that. But I'm reminded of the story of the Zen Master and the little boy:
Seriously I don't understand this. After watching the last 3 games, do you honestly think hoke would fare any worse on this team? He has coached with less talent than Michigan and yielded somewhat better results. Look, I don't want the dude either, but I don't think I could defend hanging on to rich rod another year, it would split the fan base like matt millens last year in Detroit
only two wins against teams with winning records were against the academies, Air Force and Navy. The other seven wins came against teams a combined 46 games below break even. He hasn't proven he can be a winning coach consistently in significantly weaker conferences and hasn't proven he can recruit major talent.
But all I'm saying is that not getting JH will not be the end of the world. We could try a promising coordinator, or a successfully FCS coach. Just cuz a guy ha a proven track record doesn't mean he'll be successful (ie. Rich rod)
...or, for that matter, a bad guy (though I don't know if 8-4 in the MWC is better than 7-5 in the Big Ten). But I think the argument for Harbaugh is that even if they will be worse in 2011 than they would be under Rodriguez (because of the transition), the team will be better 3, 4, or 5 years from now. I can't see this team being better in 2011 under Hoke than Rodriguez, nor can I see it being better in 2016. Why would you make the change if it doesn't promise better results at some point?
You hit on my point, though. People worry more about how bad Rodriguez HAS been, rather than what is best for the team going forward. Do I want to hit RR with a rolled-up newspaper? Sure. But I don't think firing him is a good idea unless we have a suitable replacement.
(FWIW, I don't think Harbaugh is the only person who could coach the team next year. His is just the only name that has been circulated who I would consider a realistic replacement. If Patterson wants to come coach Michigan, I'm cool with that)
There's also a guy named Rich Rodriguez that could coach the team next year.
Snarky McSnarkerson aside: he's not yet been fired. And I would much, much, much rather have RR here than Brady Hoke.
I meant the only OTHER person.
People in such situations always say that it can't get worse. It can. If Brandon can get someone better, then he should make the move; but I don't think firing RR for the sake of firing RR is a good idea.
I'm not supportive of Patterson. That guy wants to put concussed kids back into the game 10 minutes after they've been unconscious.
...and Jim Harbaugh once tried to drive after getting slizzered.
Point: we all make our mistakes. Patterson claimed that he was just trying to gather information about the athlete, not override the doctors.
between making a personal mistake and wanting to send a concussed kid out on the field when the doctor refuses to clear him?
OF COURSE Patterson claimed he wasn't trying to override the doctors! That doesn't mean that he's telling the truth. The doctor obviously felt that Patterson was trying to override him, or he wouldn't have said so to the media. The fact that TCU's AD even got involved is indicative that there was something serious going on here. I don't know, you could be right, but the whole story seems very fishy to me.
In any case, I would contrast Patterson's behavior (ill-informed or not) to RR's handling of DR's potential concussion in the Illinois game... and DR wasn't knocked unconscious.
Maybe we won't lost to Toledo anymore this way?
for making my point.
Some people want to fire RR in 2010 for a loss in 2008. I don't know what to tell those people; in 2011, he will STILL have lost to Toledo in 2008. And I don't think it makes a damn bit of difference.
Also, your 8th grade English teacher called. She read your last post, and became Sad English Teacher Panda.
I know Blue in South Bend, and he normally doesn't criticize people unless it's 100% in good fun. Seeing the snarky comment at the end lets me know he's pissed, for realz
I've taken a turn toward the dark side, and have released my inner ANGAR.
However, my EPIC fantasy football title has soothed my soul somewhat. A Boy Named Suh, FTW!!!
What happens? We follow the team like always of course. Last time I checked someone having a contraray opinion or a prediction that turns out to be incorrect doesn't impose a lifetime banishment from being a fan of a team.
If that were the case, all the people on here predicting we'd steam roll Michigan State in October would be expatriated. It was hilarious how magically within a few hours after, those very same people were trying to tell the world how great a team MSU was and how they were clearly the better team going into the game. Despite us being favored.
One of the main things I never got was the need to make sorry excuses and fire off "wait until next years" every time we got clobbered this fall. But, all of the blather we are talking about here is the birthright of being a fan. As is the guy who just can't resist rubbing it in when circumstances he has no control over lean to his side of loyalty.
my point is that people who come on here absolutely blasting - not unhappy or disgruntled but BLASTING - RR for not working, etc., have just thrown every shell of ammunition at the current coach expecting a change. so then RR comes back - where the hell is there potential for discourse between people like yourself and those who either a) would be ok with JH coming but still appreciate RR or b) want to keep RR? i really don't know what catharsis is available that has to be achieved solely through nuking the man on this board. be unhappy, hope for a change but the outright OMG HE'S F'ING SATAN EFF THIS reactions and statements constantly coming out are ridiculous. they're damn near trolling - we get it (poster's name here), you don't like RR. we gathered as much from your 57 other posts.
I've been staying away from here worried about all of the negativity. Thanks god many folks can think rationally. It's not RR vs perfection, it's RR vs "what you can get", and "what you can get" may or may not be good! I'm pissed too but I'm not thrilled about plan B or C and would support RR if he is the best option available.
This is mostly the gut, knee-jerk reaction that follows getting shitcanned in a bowl game. the same thing happened after OSU, but it died down to a dull roar by the bowl game.
We're certainly candidates for the Scott Tenorman of the Week if Brian does a bowl version of TWIS.
I was reading AnnArbor.com comments (dumb, I know) and they are running 99-1 "OMG RR'S EFFING SATAN KILL HIM NOW!" vs. "Well, maybe he's not Satan, calm down."
All the arguments (and "arguments") against Rodriguez are the exact same ones that have been deployed since he first set foot in Ann Arbor. I accept some people never liked him being hired and personally dislike him for whatever visceral reason (anti-Southern bigotry?); in fact, it's because I accept and understand this that I don't need to read any more shit from these people -- they have become broken records. No, they have become broken records being used to beat a dead horse while crying over spilled milk.
A little part of my soul died watching the Gator Bowl debacle, same as everyone else here. But as someone said, the choice right now isn't Rodriguez vs. Coach Deus Ex Machina, it's current coach vs. who else is out there whose positives would outweigh the negatives of another coaching transition?
OK, I am going to try to state my point as part of the rational faction of Michigan fans who are no longer in the Rodriguez camp.
We have all rehashed what has occurred on the field for the last 3 years and it has not been pretty. We all know the reasons for and against keeping RR. But at this point can he really stay and be successful. If Dave Brandon decides to keep him we are going to have another 365 days of speculation, rumor and the constant questioning of what RR needs to do to return in 2012. This is doing more damage to the long-term health of the program than the results on the field. Plus as evidenced by the Gator Bowl, it is harming the on-field performance.
I think we have reached the point where we are beyond repair with the coaching situation. Before Saturday I would have rather had Rodriguez over any coach not named Harbaugh. At this point, it is probably best to part ways and find the best possible replacement.
"If Dave Brandon decides to keep him we are going to have another 365 days of speculation, rumor and the constant questioning of what RR needs to do to return in 2012."
Your reason for canning him either way: He can't be successful b/c we won't stop moaning about him, so let's keep moaning about him...
how about we could rally around RR and make it less of an impossible situation?
At this point, the fan base can rally around RR as much as we want and it won't make a lick of difference in the perception. Every press conference will have a job security question. Every media outlet will have constant stories on RR's tenuous job security. Every recruit will hear the questions of whether or not RR will be the coach at the end of the year.
Either you make a change or give RR a contract extention. You can't build a house on an unstable foundation. Right now the foundation is very unstable with fan support being a small part of it.
An extension would be meaningless. No one will be fooled into thinking that a coach with a 15-22 record is safe. Quite simply, there is nothing that can be done over the next nine months to stabilize RR here if he's retained. (And really, it's more than nine months, because a hot September won't sway anyone, either.) Most of the fanbase has given up on RR. This site is about the most pro-RR anywhere, and it's not even very supportive at this point. The situation has become toxic.
That's the fundamental thing DB has to consider, especially with reference to influential athletic department donors and those who buy suites and large blocks of season tickets. The attendance has been remarkably resilient the last three seasons, but that will not last into the fourth year if it proves disappointing again. Just from a marketing and PR perspective (something Brandon's intimately familiar with), selling a 2011 season with RR still at the helm would be a challenge. I think it would have been regardless of what happened in the bowl game, but after that debacle it would be like trying to persuade the French that British quisine is top-notch.
Do you honestly think there will be more questions than there were this year? I guess I just felt there was a ton of speculation all year and the added won't be that much.
What this whole thing comes down to is this:
Can you bring in someone who gives you a better shot in the long term? If you cannot, then you keep RR, hope fore moderate success next year and you either will continue with him or make another run at the best guy out there. I don't think Brady Hoke is a better long term option. In fact, I think very few guys give me a lot more hope tha RR and a good DC.
I also have a question. If you knew that RR could bring in a Casteel or Teryl Austin, would you keep him or hire Hoke? In my mind, it isn't even close. I keep RR. I honestly believe that if RR could bring in a Casteel, Shannon or Austin, a lot of people, in time, would go back to being causiously optomistic. I know I would.
It can get worse. It's now conventional wisdom in the college football world that Michigan needs to fire RR. If Brandon retains him, every press conference is going to be ugly. The wolves will be out in full force.
And if I were a top DC, I'd steer clear of this mess. This isn't just a coach on a flaming hotseat, it's a coach with a reputation for being inflexible about schemes and blindly loyal to his position coaches. People know what happened to Shafer. If the best we could do two years ago was GERG, I don't know what we could get now.
I am still PISSED OFF about our defense and silly teams.
I am not a RR hater though, or a "change for the sake of change" guy. If JH comes to Michigan, I will be happy. If not, I agree 100% that we don't just hire someone else unless he's a better candidate than RR. I'd rather try for the stud DC and move on to fix the turnovers on offense and ST. If we DO hire a stud DC, he runs HIS OWN system, period.
Oh, and Jeremy Gallon can carry a football with him everywhere from now until September.
Let me lead with this: I don't want Harbaugh as the next Michigan coach. I think he will be too pig headed to use an offense that suits Denard, I think we'll be set back on offense when our defense isn't ready to carry the load, and I wonder if he is just lucky, no pun intended, to have perhaps the best pro prospect at quarterback since Manning (the good one).
That being said, it's a huge disaster to not have Harbaugh as coach come next fall. It was stupid to leave RR twisting in the wind for the last couple months. By "postponing" any decision, Brandon let everyone assume that Harbaugh would be the next coach leaving a huge PR disaster if it's anyone else, including RR. If Brandon felt a change needed to be made, it should have been done immediately following the regular season. If that closed out Harbaugh who wanted to test the NFL waters, so be it, at least we would have had the time to do a true coaching search.
Whatever happens, to me, the shine is officially off Brandon. He has work to do to show he is competent at anything other than holding a press conference.
That's your average CC thread.
(Obviously I'm a gawker. Bad habit, I know.)
Let's endure it and keep looking forward
I think this is pure speculation. Everyone is predicting Harbaugh to Michigan. In the small chance he backs out, The Big Lead will try to take credit for breaking the story. If Harbaugh picks Michigan, no one will really hold their feet to the fire. I mean they did write "This is liable to change again later in the week."
God Bless Rich Rod! God Bless the University of Michigan!!!
Last week, we would have guessed 97% Michigan, 1% SF, 1% Stanford, 1% Other. Today, we’ve re-adjusted that to 50% SF, 20% Stanford, 15% Other, 15% Michigan. This is liable to change again later in the week.
There really isn't any evidence of these percentage changes. Why does Michigian go from 97% to 15%? The assumption is that JH doesn't want to leave the Bay area. What about the Denver job? It isn't even discussed.
It was so a 98.523% chance of happening.
Any source on this? Seems like purely speculation as Leaders and Best just noted. I can't imagine Harbaugh's wife suddenly wanting to stay on the West Coast just over the weekend. It's not like this surprised them. I trust that Brandon already closed Harbaugh on this a long time ago in case the opportunity did arise at Michigan.
Always. Be. Closing.
you are shit. Hit the bricks, pal.
Is a little something extra in the bonus pool this month. A new Cadillac and a set of steak knives.
they reply to a comment saying,
TheBigLead Says: January 3rd, 2011 at 8:22 AM [Gravatar image] but I do not believe that is dead. I don’t believe that he is making final decisions a couple days before the Standford bowl game. This will be revisited after their season is done. you could be 100% on this. people change their minds all the time. i think Harbaugh at UM would be great
Did the dude really just spell it "Standford"?
you gotta Standford something
We've been dong punched like this before.
I'll take my chances with him cira 1980.
1938 not so much.
Joe Lewis can still kick my ass and he has passed.
For all those who think a deal with Harbaugh could already be done, I am not sure exactly what this might entail. When asked on Saturday Dave Brandon said "he probably won't have a comment about the decision until later in the next week."
That doesn't exactly lend to already having someone lined up if we are looking 10-14 days for an announcement.
that JH is being as tight-lipped as possible on the situation so as not to leave his team with the feeling that they are losing ther coach. Whether he comes to Michigan or jumps to the NFL, he isn't saying a word until his game is over. Let the rumors fly, they're all BS.
The consensus is that "the next week" meant this week.