CC: Harbaugh's extension offer
Its water under the bridge man.
RR will return next year and those who stay will be champions.
I feel kinda bad for those ducks....
they're like fuzzy little tennis balls at that age, made to get rolled around a little and come out of it okay. You could always fight those feelings by finding a park bench with a loaf of Wonderbread in hand.
Alternate use: GERG is the mother duck leading the defense (considering his love of storytime, maybe Mother Goose would be more appropriate).
A) Great video, where on earth did you find that.
B) For all we know David Brandon has already contacted whomever James' "people" are and is discussing matters. I think he's too business savvy to not have at least reached out. Otherwise there is little to no reason for him not ot be publicly endorsing RR for next year. Dave's no fool. He has to know the damage of leaving things in limbo is creating and that, unless there is a payoff, it doesn't justify the state of things.
Until I hear James come out and say "I WILL BE THE COACH OF STANFORD NEXT YEAR" I don't buy any of this crap.
The only way this extention offer and potential acceptance of it by Harbaugh precludes Michigan from getting him as their next coach is if the buyout is some outrageous number like $10M.
If anything, this may buy Michigan more time as it won't have to contend with every BCS school with a coaching vacancy calling Harbaugh.
1. One recruiting class doesn't make or break any program... Let's review what we've lost: Kevin Souza a spare project QB. Dee Hart hasn't decommitted. Is his committment solid as it was two weeks ago? no. But I can't say he's "gone" and neither can you.
2. What precludes UM from buying out his contract even if he signs the extension?
3. Spell check/re-read your post. It is difficult to read; you have quite a few spelling/typing errors.
Speaking of reading your own post--the guy's name is Sousa.
[EDIT: I misspelled a proper noun which has little to no effect on the readability of my post...he made a half dozen errors that made reading it a little difficult. I was not trying to be a grammar nazi, actually just trying to give him a tip. I've made the same mistake of not rereading a post and it being littered with errors.}
I like the spelling better with the "z" instead. No reason for that preference. It just looks cooler. So +1 for the misspelling. (P.S. By commenting on his post you made it impossible for him to fix it anyway.)
I'm well aware that responding to his post meant he could no longer fix it.
I guess you missed the point: It's ridiculous for someone to play grammar nazi when their own post has several errors of its own. I didn't even mention that this phrase of his--"Is his commitment solid as it"--is missing an "as" or that he should have capitalized "no."
And, by the way, for the record, I didn't neg him.
I was joking. It was supposed to be funny. You know, something that makes you laugh? I guess it wasn't. Regardless, there was no need to explain yourself - I know exactly what you were doing with your post. I would have done the same had you not beaten me to it.
I was responding to your P.S., which I took as a criticism because it seemed to imply I shouldn't have responded to his post and should have given him a chance to fix it. Re-read your P.S.--don't you think it would easily be taken that way?
It actually produced a fairly decent haul. Graham, both Browns, Minor, Schilling, Dorrestein, Mathews and Mouton all ended up decent Big 10 players or better (and Ezeh if you're feeling super charitable).
2007 essentially ended up being Warren, Molk, Hemingway and Van Bergen. I guess Webb ended up being decent.
That's 2 defensive players (one of whom left before this year) and 2-3 offensive players from one class. Large portion of Michigan's struggles can be traced right to that.
I (along with many others) feel the secondary is the single greatest downfall of this team right now and that 2007 class had exactly zero secondary prospects save Stevie Brown who ended up being a LB (sorta). That was my point..
I think every recruiting class is important.
I am not just worried about commits that may go elsewhere. I am also worried about recruits that are on the fence and decide that too much uncertainty is not worth the choice. That is an unmeasurable in the future because you really don't know the reason for their choice to go elsewhere.
Most of UM's defensive struggles can be traced to horrid coaching. Three years of poor tackling and missed assignments are a sure sign of that.That the defense has been bad with and without experience is also a significant indication that the coaching at all levels has been subpar.
UM's talent level on defense, while not optimal, has not been bad. Most of the players have been three stars or above(meaning productive starters at the very least)That is eequivalent to what Iowa, Wisconsin, and MSU bring in,
WI, Iowa, and MSU have the luxury of starting 3 stars that are juniors and 5th yr seniors
I'm pretty sure there IS a Michigan coaching job..... currently filled by Coach Rod.
Give it up with these posts.. Most of the people posting this stuff apparently can't think beyond comprehension that brandon may have already told RR what's up. Just cause there isn't a media shitstorm doesn't mean anything.
People tend to forget that DB and RR are actually, you know, colleagues and such right now. They talk to each other. Probably often now. I highly doubt RR does not know of what DB's intentions are at this point, even though we fans have absolutely no clue.
I'm done with the speculating. I am just a wait and see guy. Sometimes I think it's more likely RR stays, sometimes I think the other way. But the reality is I have no effing clue. People here are growing impatient, but why? We already know DB is waiting until the new year, so why would you NOW get annoyed with him waiting to say anything to the media? Wouldn't it look bad of him as a leader to go back on what he's been saying repeatedly for months now?
Brandon and Harbaugh are actually said to be fairly close friends. So yeah, DB almost certainly knows JH's intentions.
now despise RR after what happened at the Bust.
I'm not saying this matters to Brandon.
And I'm not saying they are right.
I'm just passing along the fact that 98% of the living people who are responsible for Michigan being the winningest program in CFB history want RR fired immediately.
Under the assumption that you did not go out and poll every single person who has played football at Michigan, and is still living, I'm going to say you're 100% wrong.
it's somewhere in the 90th percentile.
And hey, don't shoot the messenger.
Listen, I want RR to stay and clean house on his defensive staff!
I'm just trying to pass along information. Jeez. Whatever.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there's a 98% chance that the OP has never met anyone that played Michigan football. So there's that.
Wow, you got a quick survey out to all the former players and they all responded, huh? Impressive!
I never cease to be amazed by the people in our midst here on MGoBlog.
Link? data? facts? figures? direct quotes? made-up quotes? polls? counter polls? ANYTHING?!
Do you have ANY proof to back this up?
It's such a ridiculous assertion that you had better have something!
QUICK, make something up... oh wait, you already did.
I know dozens of former players. I was taken aback by how many of them now really hate RR for what he did at the Bust. Every single one of the 50-70 guys that I know and heard from don't want RR to be the coach anymore.
But who gives a fuck what they think.
My apologies for the internets overreaction...
But seriously... Dozens =/= 50-70, and you spoke with all of them? And all 50-70 save 1 or 2 all want RR out?
My point is, it seems ridiculous to make any assertions based on your "data" and informal polling.
"dozens" can very well equal 50-70, that would be four-six dozen IIRC. Thus; dozens...
make up the 98 percent that are living AND hate RR.....plus...why say dozens when you can approximate the number of former players you know to 50-70? If you want RR fired and think he sucked at The Bust...then say it and suffer the wrath of givig op-ed in this thread. Dont just make up garbage stats....because trust me...98 percent of the MgoBlog posters I know just hate this type of stuff
60% of the time, it works everytime.
Are you referring to players that played 40-70 years ago? Honestly, I really could care less about what they think. They earned the right to critique the program but I would venture a guess that the majority of them are a bit removed from things. This may be agism (if so, I apologize in advance), but I would guess that more than one of them are not a fan of the spread offense.
So the opinions of the guys that beat Woody's best team 24-12 under Bo in 1969 do not matter. But, your opinion matters!
which is to say, not much.
No, but I never assume or proclaim that my opinion matters. My opinion matters as little as their opinions matter.
My point still stands - they are a generation that are seeped in a different tradition, way of life, and general outlook that is very, very different than exists today.
the right to express your opinion. I suspect they do, too.
You are right though, to discount one's opinion because of their age or the generation they belong to is ageism. I don't know how apologizing in advance makes it any less so.
I wonder whether in 40 years or so, the generation you belong to will be seeped(sic) in a tradition, way of life,(sic) and general outlook that will be be very different than what exists then.
In fact, I hope that, in 40 years (I'll be 75), I'll appreciate that life is very different than when I was "coming up" and try to appreciate that priorities change.
P.S. Every generation is steeped in tradition but each have a different outlook on life. My point, as I'm sure you are aware, is that it is very presumptuous to assume that what you hold dear and deem important is, in fact, important to subsequent generations. If you want to get into a battle of grammar than lets do it. Otherwise, I think you got my point.
In fact, I hope that, in 40 years (I'll be 75), I'll appreciate that life is very different than when I was "coming up" and try to appreciate that priorities change.
Isn't it presumtuous of you to assume that nobody from the 1950-1970 teams is as you hope you would be at the same age?
Also, why is it only what your generation "deem(s) important" that matters to you, if, in fact, you are as open-minded as you would have to be to appreciate that times change. Isn't the whole of the Michigan family important here?
Why is the voice of someone who wants to go back to the tried and true, in the face of onfield performance well below historical Michigan standards, so irrelevant to you?
Those are each very valid points. I guess my only answer is that those with different opinions are irrelevant to me.
Seriously, I do not believe that many (most?) of the Rodriguez detractors are simply opponents because of the onfield performance. If that was the case, I find it hard to believe that so many people would be clamoring for his head after this regular season where the offense was generally spectacular (in my opinion). After watching the offense when it was functioning like it was designed, it is hard for me to question Rodriguez's offensive genius. Defense, well, that is another story that I'd rather not discuss right now (if only because its been hashed and re-hashed).
It is my assertion that many (most?) of the detractors do not like seeing the spread offense run at Michigan. And, if true, I would venture to guess that this is because the detractors have grown so used to the pro-style offense and general success over the years. Its hard to dispute the success - season after season of more wins than losses, bowl games, etc. But I submit that much of the opposition comes from the "old guard" pro-style offense proponents as opposed to people who support the "new age" spread offense.
FWIW, I've enjoyed this back and forth.
I'm asking in all seriousness properly due to a fellow grad of UM's architecture school: are you stating this based on alum players you know, or people you know who are close to players? I do business with an alum who played for Bo, and next time I see him I'm going to ask what his reaction was.
And did they despise RR before the bust, or did RR's "performance" at the bust stimulate a change in their perceptions?
This info is from former players I know personally and speak with, and what they tell me other former players that they have spoken to have expressed.
Most of the hard feeling are because of the blowout loss to OSU, but the Bust fiasco sealed it.
Again, my feelings about RR differ from theirs.
what happened that caused such animosity?
My sarcasm detector may be a bit off this morning (I have a case of the Mondays...and will now punch myself for saying, "case of the Mondays."). Your sense of humor raises me up...so I can stand on mountains. It raises me up...so I can walk on stormy seas.
If you were serious, it was because he used the football bust to stump for his job and begged to be accepted as a Michigan Man. That, and the awful Josh Groban song he played at the end with arms raised and tears falling down his face. NTTAWWT.
This is interesting stuff. They hate him for the speech or for the Josh Groban, or both?
It's also interesting because if you're right and 98% of players hate RR, we mustn't forget that DB was a former player as well and probably shares their psychology.
And how long ago was it that 98% anyone who mattered currently and formerly at the University of Michigan wanted nothing to do with Jim Harbaugh? Including his '85 teammates that were "done with him".
Just asking because you seem to know and talk to ALL these people.
Just a hint: when making up statistics, stick with numbers that are realistic. 98% of anybody agrees to nothing.
Also, 79% of statistics are made up on the spot. The other 42% are made up later on.
And a goofy act I'd hardly a reason to fire a guy.
To not make the assumption is to say that Brandon is in the 2%.
Again, until I hear from Harbaugh's mouth that he's staying at Stanford, I'm still going under the assumption that he's not. Question is, where's he going?
How many of them were there and hated it and how many hated what they read in the FreeP and heard from Jim Rome? That's going to make a huge difference in people's mindset regarding it.
He's doing what he's said he's going to do. What has he mismanaged?
I think the Ravens should fire Harbaugh and hire Harbaugh
Wait, this isnt the lol at Baltimore, Steeler fans unite thread?
Eh, it should be.
Also, you are assuming that DB does not already know what Harbaugh had planned to do... Come to UM, go Pro, stay at stanford.. All this public posturing might be Stanford AD acting desperate because everyone else knows what is going on but him.
The point is, we don't know what is going on, and this really changes nothing (from our standpoint), and if it changes something for JH, then he is out for the $ and ...... ?
The Stanford AD is doing everything that he can to keep order within his program. None of us should really be surprised that JH has been offered an extension or that he will even sign it. Now what our AD needs to do is make the best logical decision and to keep Coach Rodriguez. Why try to get a guy that 1. may not come here if in fact he wants this extension and 2. what do we do in 2 or 3 years when JH decides the NFL is a better fit for him, as that league will be coming off a lockout. I just hope DB would put this all to rest and stand behind his head coach and keep the man, that will lead us to a Big 10 title and beyond in the next few years to come.
Should Jim Harbaugh be the coach at Michigan next year, it will be because he has given assurances that he is not going to bolt for the NFL after a couple of years of success. What Harbaugh's willingness to accept this extention means is he has little interest in jumping to another college of NFL job for a mere payday. Without knowing the contract details in terms of buyouts and out-clauses, this tells me that he is holding out for Michigan at the college level or for the right NFL job.
This changes very little if anything.
Harbaugh's not staying at Stanford. At the absolute most, he'll coach them for one more season.
Hmmm... Every time I see JH, I think Justice Hayes....
Since I am held to the CC Detente Act of 2010, I cannot nuke. So I will do something else...
I rarely voice an opinion on the CC topic because of the lack of thought that goes into most of their posts, I can't help but agree with the general feeling on DB.
I think he has already decided, barring a major embarrassment in the Gator Bowl.
Howeva, I think by repeating himself that he would only making a decision after the entire season has forced his hand at doing so. Chalk it up to a rookie mistake? I am sure he hears the same complaints, but maybe in a less direct way. If he does this again, I might have to tell him to go sail a boat.
Whoa! How could you Jhackney? I will not issue a Notice of MGoInfraction just as you will not nuke him, but how could you cave and issue your opinion? I feel abandoned . . .
I hate to do it, but I have no choice but to neg you. et tu, Brute?
Sorry. I will refuse to comment on the JH vs. RR however. At least until official word is given. Don't worry. It won't happen again. Those are my only two cents on the situation. Notice I did not predict or guesstimate what DB was thinking or doing about JH/RR. I was merely stating again that we won't hear anything until after the Gator Bowl. +1 to you however for standing by your principles. I shall go back to work on my Volume II of the 2010 season.
Probably DB decided long ago and is sticking to his timetable for an announcement as a way of drawing a line in the sand with the media, and sending a message to alums who never liked RR and tried their hand pursuading the new AD when the regular season ended. High donor alums have figured out from their interactions with DB that he isn't wavering in his convictions so they've probably given up. Any recruits that are wavering may be told (see: D. Hart?) and RR probably knows that he is going to return unless we put up an egg at the Gator Bowl. So that leaves... us and the media who haven't figured it out yet to continue to speculate.
Then again, I always liked Rich Rod so that's just my hopeful thinking I guess.
This seems to jibe with what I heard from an acquaintance who's a booster and goes to "coaches' meetings." I really hope it's true.
Michigan is taking some hits now. Fans are frustrated with DB. It *may* affect recruiting somewhat.
However, I would argue:
- The hits on recruiting caused by the delay are minimal. There is plenty of time between January 3 & National Signing Day. Remember, commitments don't mean jack . . . it is the letter of intent that matters. In case you haven't noticed, Frost, Walls, & Zettel are still in play. So are Hobbi, Jernigan, and Lyons. All six of these guys are four star rated recruits.
- Should RR come back, which I'm assuming he does, the delay doesn't matter. Should there be other coaching changes, they typically wouldn't happen until January anyway.
- Since when should DB make a decision because of the cries of the hoi polloi? It is bad leadership to lose your head when those around you are running around and losing theirs.
- Personal integrity. EVEN if it would be better at this point for DB to give an extension (or release RR) immediately, there is another problem. DB has repeatedly said he will make a review at the end of the season. For him to change now is a sign of weakness, a sign that he is not in control, no, that others control him.
Good things are worth waiting for. I applaud DB holding to his position.
and I'm sorry, but I really, really hate this "sign of weakness" argument. Changing your position because the circumstances on the ground have changed isn't a "sign of weakness." It's a sign of someone with the flexibility necessary to do a demanding job well.
There are key words that Harbaugh continues to use and not use when talking about it. He refrains from using phrases like "I'm not going anywhere" and " I plan on staying at Stanford" and instead uses "I'm not going to talk about other coaching jobs" and "I'm happy at Stanford". This tells me that after his season, he would be open to other coaching opportunities, so even though this extension was offered, I doubt he accepts it due to curiousity of other jobs in the market. Plus, if he doesn't accept the extension now, goes and looks and doesn't find a job he wants, it's not like Stanford would take back that extension offer, I'm sure they would still give it to him.
and get in the upcoming volume; Athletic Directing for Dummies: all the things you needed to know but were afraid to ask. Yes, we even include the secret key words. Now you too can know what is going on in your coaches devious minds.
We don't know whether DB has contacted JH but if not, this is a pretty serious miscalculation. What is JH to do with this contract vs. no other immediate options? We might be able to buy him out, but it would be more difficult, and why go through that thing again?
Is fingernail clipping at work acceptable with office door closed? Or must it be an at-home-only grooming chore?
I'm not sure how many times we can discuss the same thing. Sure, the news link is somewhat new, but then you go on and on with your personal opinion. Its the same thing, over and over. Everyone knows some people think one way and other think another way. Its a polarizing issue that has still not been determined, people want to know, but they're not going to find out until after the season is over. Let it rest until then, please. I beg of you. At least with respect to the need to express personal opinions. Please.
Is fingernail clipping at work acceptable with office door closed? Or must it be an at-home-only grooming chore?
Not acceptable at work, it's an at-home-only grooming chore. I say that because those things like to fly away, it can be tough to have a 100% save rate.
What happens if it flies somewhere you can't find it, and you don't realize it's right there, on your desk, out of your view and the big boss is walking in and sees it there?
And it's been said... many times, many ways... the timing is stupid.
Keep RR and this was all a big blunder in recruiting and a giant distraction.
Fire RR and you could have had all those bowl practices getting everyone used to a new coach before next season.
And pardon me, but why would Michigan give a flying fuck how Stanford would feel about Harbaugh leaving before the bowl game? Who gives a fuck?
Last time Michigan hired a coach away from a BCS bowl game, WV's entire fan base went bonkers and the press killed him. I would argue that if somehow Martin had let RR play in the bowl game then come over the buyout stuff wouldn't have been a bad of a PR nightmare and the Michigan press wouldn't have been all over RR from day 1.
With respect to recruiting, RR supporters say that year was worthless, and that he didn't have a full chance to recruit anyway b/c of Carr, so waiting 3 weeks couldn't have made it much worse.
"I would argue that if somehow Martin had let RR play in the bowl game then come over the buyout stuff wouldn't have been a bad of a PR nightmare and the Michigan press wouldn't have been all over RR from day 1."
And I'd argue that your delusional. Regardless of what Martin had to say, once Rodriguez was known to have been on his way here, WV wouldn't have let him set one foot on the field in a head coaching capacity.
You really think the hatred from WV was because he left before a bowl game? They hated him for leaving (and for losing the Pittsburgh game). Period.
"And it's been said... many times, many ways... the timing is stupid.
Keep RR and this was all a big blunder in recruiting and a giant distraction.
Fire RR and you could have had all those bowl practices getting everyone used to a new coach before next season.
And pardon me, but why would Michigan give a flying fuck how Stanford would feel about Harbaugh leaving before the bowl game? Who gives a fuck?"
I agree 1000% and cannot possibly emphasize that last statement more.
JH hasn't signed a contract extension, so this is premature. But an extension is the important item. The real question about any JH contract at Stanford is the breakup clause and specifically what the amount is if JH leaves for Michigan.
Lou Holtz had a get out of jail free card when he was a Minnesota if he took the Notre Dame job. Other coaches have more onerous breakup fees for particular other programs (I thought that Miles had a bigger breakup fee for Michigan).
Stanford has almost zero leverage in this situation, it may be their intent that they get JH to sign any extension (even one with no breakup fee for JH leaving for Michigan) in the hope that the extension and raise gives JH more incentive to stay.
And the Stanford AD almost must offer JH an extension. If he let him go without offering him something, he would be generating a lot of negative goodwill for the program among its followers.
Regarding the recruiting front, it seemed that the interest in Sousa had been waning for months from Michigan's perspective. And until Dee Hart enrolls somewhere other than Michigan, its too early to tell what the real story is with RR's ability to recruit given Brandon's review window. (We don't know what Brandon has told RR or recruits that visit campus / are on the phone with the coaching staff and AD.)
Exactly. Since Harbaugh is in the position of strength, if he wants to leave himself an out for Michigan or the NFL, he will do so. Signing an extension is merely an act of good will on his part (likely to help with bowl game ticket sales).
Haven't seen you around in a while...
I agree with you completely - nice job of summarizing it. This idea of letting the situation hang in limbo until January while the rest of the world continues to spin makes no sense and is doing more damage every day.
Whether you like RR or not the situation is now deteriorating and will continue to do so for the next month. With all due respect to DB this is not like replacing a senior executive at a corporation. A lot of people are watching and making their own decisions based on what they see.
I disagree with your assessment of the situation. I think the "damage" (if any) has been done. Its discussions like this that continue to fan the flames. Michigan just got a New Year's Day bowl bid, Dee Hart has not decommitted (yet?), and Brandon continues to tell people to give it a rest until after the season. He's not going to decide until then so . . . give it a rest.
I'm okay with that...this is a forum for exchanging ideas and opinions.
so us discussing it has more impact on the situation than DB endorsing or firing RR, or hiring Harbaugh right now?
And what if Jim Harbaugh said "I'm not going to deal with any of this until after the bowl game."
Hart hasn't decommitted. If he does, it might be because of coaching uncertainty, or it might be because he wants to play with Clinton-Dix at Bama, or it might be because of the tailspin we entered in the back half of the season. We'll know when we know.
Sousa, by all indications, wasn't feeling the love from the coaches, and didn't like looking up at Denard, Forcier,and Gardner at the depth chart. I fail to see how hiring Jim Harbaugh NAO!!! would have changed that. Unless of course you mean Denard and Gardner would immediately transfer to Rich Rodriguez's new school.
Let's also be honest here, Stanford's AD probably doesn't think that Harbaugh will stick around for any more than the 2011 season at best. So he probably knows that Harbaugh won't be fulfilling the contract extension. All of this is CYA by him. This way angry irrational message board people* won't come up with stupid reasons to fire him (BUT WHY DIDN'T OUR ATHLETIC DIRECTOR OFFER 30 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR FOR HIM AND OFFER TO BLOW UP THE MOON BECAUSE IT KEEPS HARBAUGH AWAKE AT NIGHT???!?)
1) No one here knows DB's state of mind or plan and what he has done or will do to effect that plan.
2) No one here has seen the terms of the alleged JH contract extension, so no one can say what said extension means to the CC situation.
3) Michigan has a bowl game in 26 days - Go Blue!
And I would humbly offer the following amendments:
1a) 'cept that he has repeatedly told everyone when he'll tell everyone, and
1b) no amount of intarwebs rabble will impact will impact said planning.
I'm gonna go get the papers get the papers...
Though I, like many others, would prefer a quick decision from Brandon (as much for my own peace of mind as for the sense of stability it would bring the program), I can see one scenario where waiting does make sense from Brandon's perspective.
If he wants to keep Rodriguez or if Harbaugh is leaning toward staying at least another year at Stanford, Brandon could either endorse Rodriguez immediately or wait. If he endorses him immediately, critics of the coach freak out and scream "But just lost Ohio Statez three timez arrrrghghghghghg!!!" They will also openly pine for their man-crush, Jim Harbaugh.
On the other hand, if Brandon waits until Harbaugh is no longer available (and I think his desire to stay at Stanford could fall into the 95% of stuff that we apparently don't see), he takes away the primary (and really the only viable) option advocated by those wanting Rodriguez ousted. Without Harbaugh in the discussion, the decision to retain Rodriguez becomes a lot easier for all but the staunchest Rodriguez haters (and maybe a few of Brady Hoke's family members).
If Brandon could do this while sticking to his public story that "this is the timeline" and perhaps quietly reassuring recruits that no change is in the works (note Dee Hart's backtracking and Greg Brown's plans for early enrollment) it isn't a bad plan of action, all things considered.
Of course, I could just be making all of this up.
I find myself in agreement with most things I read that you post, but I disagree somewhat here. Actually, I agree this could be his thinking, but if it is I disagree with his handling of it.
There is no question DB has a rationale for what he is doing at this point. The worst part for us (as fans) is it won't become evident until after this is all over.
The ONLY way any of this makes sense is if JH is brought in following the bowl game. Otherwise this delay has done nothing other than cause a great deal of uncertainty around a program that has had enough to deal with over the past few years.
DB made a mistake when he made the timeline for his decision public. The only one who needed to know was RR, but by making it public he opened himself up to all the criticism that has followed. Had he not mentioned it, he could have easily adjusted it without looking like he made a mistake.
This has caused him to make another possible mistake (only time will tell to be sure). If RR comes back this timeline was absultely a mistake and I haven't seen a single reason that would justify why it would be a good idea for this decision to take this much time should that be the direction he takes.
It has been mentioned that a good CEO doesn't make decision based on popular opinion, and I agree. I also believe, however, that a good CEO recognizes when he has made a mistake and doesn't put his pride above the company he represents. He acknowledges a mistake was made and rectifies it.
A good CEO is also a leader who isn't afraid of making tough decisions if it is in the best interest of the organization. I don't think DB (if he is a good CEO) is waiting for the decision to make itself ( as you suggest may be the case in your post) and if he is, I would put forth that he isn't a good CEO.
To close, I guess what I am saying is the only way any of this is justifiable is if JH is coming (Full disclosure,:I hope RR stays). If that isn't the plan, DB should be keen enough to understand that things have changed and therefore his timeline should as well. Sticking to a timeline simply because you made one is a little silly at this point.
I would much rather he just publicly say "Rodriguez is the coach for next year. Deal." I guess I'm just speculating (like everyone else) but like you I have been very puzzled by Brandon's stance and don't really see the benefit either way. This was basically an exercise in giving him the benefit of the doubt.
I would note that in this scenario he isn't necessarily letting the decision make itself in the future, but rather has made up his mind or had it made up for him (either he wants Rodriguez and knows it or he knows Harbaugh isn't coming and has decided in that event that Rodriguez is the best option). It would allow him to stay even handed (after the season, repeat, after the season) while letting the course of events he knows is coming (Harbaugh gets an extension or takes NFL job) deflect some of the animosity and criticism away from the program. If part of Brandon's job is to shape opinion and manage expectations, I can see a big benefit in advocating Rodriguez over Hoke as opposed to Rodriguez over Harbaugh. If Brandon can get that result by simply sticking to his guns on the timeline (while hopefully reassuring hesitant recruits) then I can at least see some logic behind the decision.
Yes, and perhaps I didn't come across clearly in my post that you certainly lay out a plausible reason for what is transpiring. I think of all the scenarios I have seen thrown around yours is definitely one of the most logical.
I guess my main point wasn't that your hypothesis was wrong, just that even in the circumstances you put forth, I still think the delay is a mistake. However, as we all know, my opinion isn't a big factor where DB is concerned.
I am becoming concerned over his competency. Let us not forget when Brandon was at Domino Pizza the brand and product suffered badly to the point where Domino ran commercials acknowledging they were bad.
The coaching situation at Michigan is being handled in a similar fashion. Rather than being aggressive in going out and getting the right guy for the job, Brandon fiddles while the hallowed halls of Michigan football degenerates into being the butt of jokes nationally. Maybe the next time they run a commercial regarding MIchigan, it will say "we screwed up but trust us will do better".
What a disaster if Harbaugh signs the extension. WE are stuck with a coach who has one foot off the cliff while singing "You Raise Me Up". Future recruits will roll theirs eyes.
for anyone who didn't click through, is really this part:
"We have a proposal in front of Jim and he's indicated he plans to accept it," Bowlsby said Sunday.
The "indicated he plans to accept it" part seems, you know, kinda vaguely possibly might be meaningful, or perhaps not, or wishful thinking, or genuinely factual, or just splunge.
I have listened to all this DB love and posts about the undying faith so many have in the guy, but I have to say, with each passing day my faith in the guy diminishes.
This is the first evidence we have in which to judge DB as an AD.. None of his past really correlates that well to being an AD. In this instance, I can't see how anyone thinks this timeline isn't a massive mistake. Beyond this, no one can point to anything to say "remember when DB did this and everything worked out....just have faith". He hasn't done anything to this point to warrant that faith.
People keeping defending DB by saying things like he isn't wielding to the bitching of fans and media but that is drastically understating what is going on here. Due to the uncertainty of the situation we are losing ground with current targets and it looks like we may possibly lose some of those already considered to be in the fold because of the way this has been handled. To say the only purpose speeding up his agenda would hold would be to satisfy fans and media is absurd.
I am a Cardiologist but have many friends in the business world and I can say that there aren't many CEO's that don't recognize that there will be times when situations dictate that you need to abandon what you thought was the correct course of action and move in another direction. Changing your stance or gameplan because of a change in situation doesn't make you a weak leader, it makes you a smart one.
The biggest mistake he made was providing a concrete timeline for his evaluation, there was really no need to do that with anyone outside the program. He has a chance to put his pride aside and do what is in the best interest of the program now, even though it goes against his original plan. If he can't do that, I will say he has made two monumental mistakes in the short time he has been the AD at UM.
I am not saying DB won't turn out to be a great AD, but I am questioning all the faith people have in him considering the evidence we have to go on thus far.
however I disagree with the notion that he needs to go against his original plan. Wouldn't that negatively affect him as a leader? Going back on your plans that were repeated over and over again? It's not really a pride thing necessarily...I think going back against his word would be detrimental...people might look at it and say that when it came time to put his word to actions, he faulted and went back on it. Doesn't that negatively reflect his leadership?
And by that same token, wouldn't we then be able to say that we can't ever trust what DB says, because he changes his mind all the time?
This is largely dependent on what the end result is. If he brings JH in, then the timeline was likely essential and something he had very little control over. JH may have said he can't do it until after the bowl or all bets are off.
However, if his intent has been to retain RR then changing his timeline doesn't mean he isn't a good leader, nor that he isn't trustworthy. As I have said, the biggest problem is that he made the timeline public and thus opened himself up to public scrutiny. I don't understand why he had to be so specific to the media, but he was.
Good leaders know when a mistake has been made and they take responsibility and rectify the problem. Not even CEO's (or leaders as you say in your post) are immune from making mistakes. The really good ones are able to recognize they made them and aren't shy about taking responsibility and fixing them.
How many great military leaders have made mistakes while commanding troops in various wars? Do you think they sit back and let things spiral out of control while their troops are getting killed simply because they feel "I am a great leader and if I signal a retreat, people might question whether I really am a great leader or not". Leaders can change their minds as circumstances change and it doesn't make them bad leaders.
To finish, as I said previously, if JH was the target all the while then DB hasn't made any mistake and this timeframe was essential. However, if he has always planned on keeping RR, I think a good leader (as you put it) would have re-evaluated the situation as it has changed and adjusted his timeline.
It isn't like he would have to come out looking like a fool. It could simply be said that the evaluation didn't take as long as initially thought.
I agree with you, for the most part. I'd just add that DB did, IMO, expertly handle the sanctions situation. Major violations. Minimal penalties. He did the right thing. He handled it smoothly. Well done.
This is how you make an executive decision as a CEO. It is not an impulsive job (unless you are a founding CEO whom tend to be impulsive by nature). You have to weigh all the facts in hand, and see if the failing division can:
A) turn around the existing process issues
B) Has a plan to scale production to meet demand
C) Can maintain operational integrity in the face of growth
D) Has all the resources necessary to execute
Any part of management that can't manage the above has to change. Any managers that stick their neck out for underperforming staff can't effectively manage.
I actually think the reason DB is waiting until January is because he is actually a man of his word and is evaluating the totality of the program. He wants to know what Rich's plan is for growing the offense, fixing the defense, advancing recruiting and marketing the brand. If Rich is willing to go out on a limb for Greg or Brandon doesn't see a commitment from Rich to address the growth of the WHOLE team then he won't have a choice but to let him go. But that is something he won't know until they have real time to sit down, discuss the issues and see if they are on the same page with the issues.
I am actually in the camp that Jim Harbaugh is a red herring. If you are going to replace a CEO you never, ever discuss the job even in back channels yourself with the new CEO. You conduct a CEO search after firing the existing CEO. The reasons are numerous mostly that you can't control leaks from the other side of the recruitment (ie. Harbaugh's people), you don't want the morale of internal personnel to deteriorate to the point they can't do their current job and issues related to tampering.
I think I would be very very surprised if RRod is fired and Harbaugh is announced the next day. I'm not saying Jim couldn't be the next coach, I just don't believe it has even been actioned in anyway.
... DB learned from Bill Martin's ham-fisted handling of finding Lloyd's replacement (Carr not Brady). Dare we forget what it was like to have Michigan's desperate search Page One sports news during the league championships? Spurned by Les "Damn Strong" Miles? (And later by Greg "Chop Wood" Schiano)?
If we get any decommits, (a) good riddance and (b) it's probably more due to the Iowa, PSU, Wisconsin and tOSU losses than anything else.
We may not get Harbaugh. And the "anybody but RichRod" contingent are the same people who start screaming for the backup in Week 2 of the NFL season.
(Edit: one GIGANTIC +1 to The Denarding, who posted while I wrote this. EFZ!).
Some people on here are as bad as the Feep & Detnews. RR is the head coach! Until that changes we have nothing to talk about!
Your just giving more fuel to the papers to keep writing there crap.
When does Les Miles get his extension? I would be pissed if I were Les as his track record is way better than the other two guys.
Rich signed a new contract a few weeks before he left for Michigan too. I wanna say right before WVA's season in 07. Most big time coaches who bolt on a school for a better job do so under a recent contract extension. It is an important move to head off negative recruiting. Smart by Stanford and Harbaugh.
If he signs it, it might show us that there have been little to no discussions between Brandon and Harbaugh. Or it might not even show us that. We're all left to guess.
It looks like I am in the minority that thinks Brandon is playing this pretty well IF we accept as truth this story: he would prefer Harbaugh, but that absent that option, Rich coming back is his next best choice. It sure seems like that is the only story that makes sense given Brandon's approach.
Harbaugh signing an extension doesn't change that possibility, but it might up the cost to Michigan. It definitely adds weight to the public approach of Harbaugh that he is happy at Stanford. It will help a lot with recruiting.
Rodriguez signed an extension a year earlier in response to Alabama's overtures.
Signing an extension may not mean anything with respect to Harbaugh's long term future, but if he signs it he is definitely staying at Stanford next year. Sorry to disappoint, but that is how these things work.
98% of current Michigan alumni players hate RR after the bust... but if he starts winning football games and beats MSU and OSU and goes to the Rose Bowl he'll be ok by them. This has nothing to do with anything other than wins and losses. Now RR is getting more W's than L's and slowly but surely people will start to like him more.
Unless he gets fired and they hire Harbaugh. Then it won't matter. But I don't think that's going to happen.
Stanford's announcement this morning was to be expected. Their AD cannot standby idle while his star HQ leaves, after all their AD has to answer to their alumni and Regent's. At least he an ensured a hire hurdle towards getting JH and a larger buyout from anyone that wants him. If you trust DB then he has anticipated this, which is not uncommon in corp buyouts of execs.
If DB is really just waiting for the bowl game to decide and all of these discussions are just overthinking what he's actually thinking. Wouldnt that be funny??? Wouldnt it? Hello? Is thing on?
(probably unwelcome for the most part and undoubtedly redundant to at least half the board)
1. Stanford's AD may be trying to force Harbaugh into saying something publicly that he doesn't want to say. Either I'm staying or I'm leaving. This would be similar to what LSU did to Miles when Herbstreit said it was a done deal.
2. If Brandon is undecided at this point, he's not doing anyone any favors. Does beating -- or losing -- to Mississippi freakin' State make a difference to anyone vis-a-vis Rodriguez' status???? If he's decided to keep Rodriguez and won't say it, then he's an idiot. Even if he really meant, he would evaluate things after the Bowl game, the inertia has changed and he can't hold off any more. The only way silence behooves Brandon is if either Harbaugh's undecided or Harbaugh's already decided to take the job, but asked him to wait until after the Bowl game.
1) If Harbaugh is available this year hire him.
2) If no Harbaugh give Rodriguez another year
No other coaching candidate is viable.
This summarizes everything needed on this topic, IMO.
Maybe there never was a controversy. Perhaps the only people talking a coaching change have been the dolphin punching seal clubbers, and the blogosphere. Is it hard to believe that Dave Brandon never had any intentions on changing coaches, and that RRod already knows this, and maybe he has been reassured behind closed doors? Perhaps the only people that have been shortsighted, or mishandled this thing is us.Instaed of anticipating a good match up with a quality opponent in a bowl game. We are yellocuting rumors and unsubstantiated conjecture.
when making this decision. He is going to look at the long term benefits of this decision. Yeah, a good recruiting class would be nice this year, but DB is not factoring that into his decision.
If we're going to get JH, Michigan will buy out his contract regardless. All it is is another news story to generate hits, capitalizing on the drama surrounding the program.
Sorry Guys I'm new to this board be gentle
If JH had an out in his original contract that allowed him to leave if the Michigan job came open and he signs this new extension but that clause stay’s in there. The extension means nothing to us just the other schools trying to get him.