October 4th, 2014 at 2:30 PM ^
Just 4 years ago. Our recruiting hotbed is Ohio, not Michigan, and we have to go against Urban in Ohio, Dantonio and Kelly in the rest of the Midwest. Yes, we land the top guys in Michigan, but Michigan is nothing in comparison to Florida high school football.
October 4th, 2014 at 2:31 PM ^
Just 4 years ago. Our recruiting hotbed is Ohio, not Michigan, and we have to go against Urban in Ohio, Dantonio and Kelly in the rest of the Midwest. Yes, we land the top guys in Michigan, but Michigan is nothing in comparison to Florida high school football.
October 4th, 2014 at 2:39 PM ^
#44 right now, but depending on what site you visit (trust) you can spin this just about anyway.
https://rivals.yahoo.com/floridastate/football/recruiting/teamrank/2015/all/all
October 4th, 2014 at 3:18 PM ^
you act as if that's the program and not the coach. UF is in a hotbed of recruiting. They've had a better recruiting class than Michigan the last 4 seasons. Their ranks: 2011: #12, 2012: # 3, 2013: #4, 2014: #8.
No spin is needed. They recruit better than Michigan despite having FSU (and Miami) in their state.
October 4th, 2014 at 5:28 PM ^
So Muschamp can't recruit? Look I'm not saying Florida can't get recruits, i'm just saying the obvious and thats that they are second fiddle to FSU now and will be for a long time to come.
October 4th, 2014 at 2:37 PM ^
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October 4th, 2014 at 2:31 PM ^
Several have already been mentioned....recruiting and SEC love to name the big ones, but in my estimation, the biggest reason is the politics and "Michigan Man" crap our coach has to put with compared to those the Florida coach has to. If you're an outsider and have no affiliation to either university, half the fanbase here will automatically be rooting for you to fail regardless of how competent of a coach you are...see RR (That's not to say I'm a RR supporter, but we ostracized him before he set foot on campus). That's not something you have to deal with at Florida.
October 4th, 2014 at 2:20 PM ^
under his belt at NCSt, but I'm listening to an interview with him on the radio right now and it's refreshing to listen to a HC who isn't painfully inarticulate—at one point in his college career he wanted to be a medical doctor and studied medical biology. Smart guy and it shows readily.
His record as HC is very short but pretty good. He's got experience in the B10 and I would certainly at least contact him if I were Michigan's AD.
October 4th, 2014 at 2:22 PM ^
If they can play Clemson close on the road today (within 10) and take care of the rest of their schedule (say 1 loss) he should be in our top 3 candidates (excluding Harbaughs). That will be a massive turnaround for the ugly team they had last year and mediocre culture. Its NC State fergodsakes. And he did very well after Kill at NIU.
October 4th, 2014 at 2:20 PM ^
Get real people.
October 4th, 2014 at 2:21 PM ^
October 4th, 2014 at 2:24 PM ^
but it isn't.
Fan support, instituational support, the conference, the local talent, media support - all better at MSU.
Michigan can pay a little more (but with Hoke and Brandon on the books already, probably won't) and Michigan has a bigger stadium and Michigan has more national prestige (which diminishes by the day).
Miss State is an easier place to win, an easier place to focus on football, and a better job all around.
October 4th, 2014 at 2:28 PM ^
When you said easier place to win you lost all credibility. Our program could take a so called hit to our prestige for the next 20 years and still have more then MSU.
October 4th, 2014 at 2:40 PM ^
A. No. You would have said the same thing about Oregon or Boise 10-15 years ago. These things can change quickly from the football perspective. Louisville, Miami, Stanford have had a lot of inconsistency in their football program's prestige. Nothing is assured.
B. No. Prestige is a VERY small part of the puzzle. Michigan's prestige comes from 3 places: academics, tradition, and consistency. We still have academics, but so do Duke, Vanderbilt and Northwestern. It's a minor asset. Consistency was diminished by App State and Oregon losses, but has now been obliterated by the last 7 years. So we have tradition on our side. There's only so much that somebody who is 17 years old cares about things that happened before they were born. And from a potential coach's perspective you have to see what happened to Rodriguez (one of the best coaches in the country) and Hoke (not, but successful enough at SDSU and Ball State) and see the 'prestige' as signifiantly marred.
C. No. The 4th element of prestige would be fan support. How's that going with national stories about protests?
October 4th, 2014 at 3:19 PM ^
How many recruits has Michigan lost to Boise St? Do you follow recruiting at all? We aren't really doing so bad...and it's mainly because we STILL have prestige that completely obliterates Miss St and Boise St. and is even better than Oregon in most years (even years that we STUNK and they were going to Rose Bowls). Seventeen y/o in 2014 still recognizes UM tradition and prestige. That's a fact. If there are changes made, fan support can be gained very quickly. The problem with the current administration is they don't even listen or care about what fans want. UM fans want to have their traditions respected and for a great gameday atmosphere at a fair price. All of those things have been taken away and additionally, we have been losing bad. There is vastly more potential for greatness at UM than at Miss St....that is what an ambitious young coach aspires for.
October 4th, 2014 at 3:27 PM ^
We sometimes have better recruiting classes than Oregon. Michigan State too! Our coaches are good salesmen. It'd be nice if they were also good football coaches.
Potentail for greatness - sure. But we are so far away from that. There is also potential for continued incompetance. Only looking on the bright side of the error bar is not what a rational person does.
October 4th, 2014 at 3:37 PM ^
That is an opinion that we are "so far away from" greatness. And you didn't address the affect of prestige and tradition on recruiting. It is not hard to acquire elite recruiting classes at UM! We don't even have to be good at we are crushing teams that are perennial title contenders. Better than places with nice weather. Better than shit SEC programs like Miss St. So what exactly is your argument that we are so far from greatness? Or that it's difficult to win or recruit at UM? There is none.
October 4th, 2014 at 3:51 PM ^
Dude. You are aware the 2014 season started right?
We have the talent advantage that you're talking about RIGHT NOW. We had it when we went 3-8 and every season when we struggle to win 7 games too.
October 4th, 2014 at 5:32 PM ^
So its easier to win in the SEC West then the B10 East? Got it so thats our fucking problem at Michigan.
October 4th, 2014 at 2:55 PM ^
An easier place to win? Dude. Mississippi State has never won more than 10 games in their history.
October 4th, 2014 at 3:52 PM ^
They beat Michigan head to head and have been better than Michigan probably every year since Mullen signed on.
October 4th, 2014 at 3:23 PM ^
UM has a LOT of fan and institutional. Only someone who has never been around Ann Arbor could seriously say that MSU has better support.
UM has more fans, more money, more media coverage, and a much wider reach for talent than Mississippi State. It's not even close.
October 4th, 2014 at 3:34 PM ^
More fans, more money, better tradition...I'm very well aware.
They also have an inferior conference, more media scrutiny, higher expectations, higher standards for off-field/academics, more difficulty in recruiting (because they have to fly all over the country to get their recruiting classes) and an unappreciative fan base.
So yes, I think it's pretty clear the support is better at MSU, even if they have less cash, is better than Michigan which is about to run off it's second coach in 7 years after many said "about time" when Lloyd Carr retired.
Another way to think about it - is MSU's athletic director going to leave their coach hung out for a public flogging the way Hoke was? How's that for support?
Is MSU's fanbase protesting their athletic department head and calling for their head coach to be fired? Supportive indeed.
October 4th, 2014 at 3:52 PM ^
You just asked would their athletic director leave their coach hung out for a pubblic flogging and then asked if their fanbase is calling for their athletic department head?
Don't you think one has to do with the other here?
October 4th, 2014 at 4:46 PM ^
The situation is completely disfunctional and no one supports anyone. So why would a successful SEC coach want to come into that entironment? It's a huge negative.
The AD being gone isn't going to change the fan situation overnight and fan support isn't going to turn the AD into a visionary leader. Both are bad.
October 4th, 2014 at 5:23 PM ^
football.
UM does not have more difficulty in recruting. Not in the age of the plane anyways.MissState would surely take UM's classes if they could land them.UM lands kids mostly in the Midwest. So your claim that they have to "fly all over the place" is wrong.
MissState doesn't run their coaches because their fanbase is that much more appreciative of success as they historically do not have any. Look at Bama. If we applied your logic of rabid fans turning coaches off why would Saban go there? If anything, Bama fans are more rabid and vocal than Michigan fans are.
I think it's pretty clear that you are wrong on this issue. Your claims aee undermined by UM's actual recruiting base and the difference between historically successful programs and historically bad programs.
October 4th, 2014 at 2:36 PM ^
It's extremely sad how far we have fallen, but the support and politics a UM coach has to deal with is much worse than those at MSU. We are a top 35 program at best. MSU is definitely a better position to have as HC than UM at the moment. If we could stop all the infighting and factions among our fanbase then we could move up, but as it stands now were just not on MSU's level
October 4th, 2014 at 2:42 PM ^
Mullen would have to either be a fool or be extremely ambitious. Michigan does have more upside than MSU. It could be possible to establish a powerhouse here, but it is very very difficult to do so. The downside vastly outweighs the potential upside. Even a very good coach like Rodriguez (who frankly is probably better than Mullen) got ran out of town.
October 4th, 2014 at 2:56 PM ^
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October 4th, 2014 at 2:59 PM ^
I disagree,
October 4th, 2014 at 3:06 PM ^
Or did the fanbase and administration make it impossible for him to succeed? This is not to say he wasn't underwhelming during his time here, but it's hard to succeed when half the administration and fanbase have already grabbed their pitchforks before you step on campus.
October 4th, 2014 at 3:14 PM ^
It' was an equal parts situation. His inability to field a good defense AND special teams(for some reason people forget how bad his special teams were) was the primary reaosn for his downfall. But backstabbing was a significant contributing factor.
October 4th, 2014 at 3:22 PM ^
I don't know about the administration, but no way did "half the fanbase" hate him from the outset. He was warmly applauded at Michigan Stadium throughout his tenure. Only at the very end did you hear the occasional boo bird.
October 4th, 2014 at 3:40 PM ^
from inside the program and alumni and AD to spread out to the fanbase.
That part is all the more damning.
October 4th, 2014 at 3:39 PM ^
RR lost to Toledo. Lloyd Carr lost to App State. Hoke lost to Minnesota and barely scraped by northwestern and akron. If Mullen comes here he'd likely have some embarrasing losses too - just like he's had at MSU.
Mullen went 2-6 in conference his 3rd year. Rodriguez went 3-5.
The difference in expectations and support is staggering.
October 4th, 2014 at 3:04 PM ^
couldn't have put it better myself. The downside is much greater, and honestly a much more likely outcome than the upside. Michigan is obviously a tradition-rich football school, but now we're being handcuffed by that tradition. Look at the situation as an outsider. Over the last 7 years we've had an extremely competent and respected HC who didn't fit the Michigan tradition, and people here couldn't pick up their pitchforks fast enough. Now, we have a HC who does fit that tradition, but we're throwing him under the bus over something that may not have been his fault. It's a lose-lose situation to walk into. Either way if you plan on taking the HC job at Michigan, start planning on where you begin again in 3-4 years. Also, believe me this is not a support Hoke post. I wanted him gone after last year's bowl game. But at least then we could make his firing about his record, and not something that probably most coaches in college football could see happening to themselves in a perfect storm.
October 4th, 2014 at 3:15 PM ^
Take a look at college salaries right now. Hoke is #7, 200,000 behind Les Miles. Brady was golden boy from beginning and their only choice. Have you heard Sumlin interview, very intelligent. We've all heard Brady. Hoke over Sumlin, really? There were reports that Brandon flew down to Baton Rouge and told Miles they couldn't afford him, but his salary is comparable to Hoke and buyout is only 1.25M. Guys wakeup, Miles is blackballed! You better hope that Michigan makes a monumental move to clean the Killer B's out and cleanup the mess. You better do it before letters for season tickets go out or Michigan will be in for rude awakening!
October 4th, 2014 at 3:44 PM ^
the irony here is that you could easily argue Rich Rod actually fits the tradition far better. He was an innovator, just like many of our early coaches. He had a run-oriented attack, just like Bo. It was Moeller and Lloyd who led the shift to a 'pro-style' offense that really should just be called a 90's style offense. It is very much understated how much the changed the offense from the time Bo was coach - especially Mo. Michigan used to embrace this stuff, because we never stopped winning.
The game has evolved and Michigan doesn't want to evolve with it.
October 5th, 2014 at 2:45 AM ^
i see you stopped trolling.
October 4th, 2014 at 3:20 PM ^
His record says that he is a good tier two Power 5 coach. A lack of conference titles and even wins in the Big Ten and Pac 12 says as much.
Blaming his fall here solely on the behind the scenes crap requires one to ignore the rigid insistence of running a system the players were not recruited to play(a good coach fits the scheme to the players not the other way around), fielding an epically bad defense, and an ianbility to field a competent special teams. Rich Rodrigeuz was treated poorly here, but we cannot ignore his significant contribution to the mess we witnessed.
October 4th, 2014 at 3:47 PM ^
You're seeing the full cost of putting off a change in favor of smoothing the transition to fit personnel.
It's just as easy to argue you have to establish your identify from the outset.
Rodriguez certaintly did make some massive mistakes and many of them on the field were repeated by Hoke. But off the field is where the real problems came and I don't think Rodriguez can take more than a small pinch of the blame. Resistance to change was the real issue and that is not on him.
October 4th, 2014 at 5:16 PM ^
It was disasterous.You ignore 3-9 because it is inconvenient to your argument.
Rodriguez deserves much more than a "pinch of the blame". More like a a hand full. He was a significant part of why things went awry.
October 4th, 2014 at 2:24 PM ^
Mullen would be my favorite of the candidates that I think are possible (Jim Harbaugh is my dream candidate). But I think Florida goes after him and, with his ties to the school, has a better shot. Hope I'm wrong.
October 4th, 2014 at 2:31 PM ^
October 4th, 2014 at 2:34 PM ^
If he gets to 8 he should be golden.
October 4th, 2014 at 5:22 PM ^
Not sure. It could well be doable. It's hard to tell if anyone in the East is any good.
October 4th, 2014 at 2:33 PM ^
October 4th, 2014 at 2:42 PM ^
A Rutgers coach turned us down the first time. So, yeeeeeeeah.
October 4th, 2014 at 3:43 PM ^
October 4th, 2014 at 2:34 PM ^
That last touchdown may have been the knife that killed Texas A&M.