CC - Coordinator Confusion
So yea - another post related to the most talked about subject on the boards.
Over the last five years, we've never had a decent defense (or defensive coordinator) who has lasted more than a couple of seasons (I don't think Greg the White will buck the trend). As discussed in some threads already - one of the secrets to succeed in B1G 10 (with 12 teams) is a potent defense - one which stifles opponents and flattens QBs and RBs, forces turnovers and makes things happen. They can build momentum from the back and change games and demoralize the opposition.
Is it time to bring in a head coach who is more defensively oriented and hire an assistant offensive coordinator? Yes I know that defensive coaches are not as glamourous and don't attract as much limelight - but as the cliche goes that defenses win championships and offenses win television ratings (its probably true too)
Also what are the advantages/ disadvantages of having a defensive HC vis-a-vis and offensive HC? Does it affect recruiting ?
In the same vein - are any prospective defensive coordinators available who can come in as HC at Michigan?
I am not very familiar with the coaches around the nation in general but just thought I'll put my thoughts to paper (or blog).
January 2nd, 2011 at 8:53 PM ^
Randy Shannon?
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:07 PM ^
for the anti-oversigning gang (of which I consider myself a member). But I agree to the extent we need a dude with some skins on the wall.
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:48 PM ^
Oversigning gives a coach a distinct advantage. It might have contributed to his success. Obviously, it's not going to fly at Michigan so I hope I'm wrong if they pursue him.
January 2nd, 2011 at 8:54 PM ^
Umm 2006 probably the best Michigan D ever and 2007 wasnt to shaby besides the first 2 games.
January 2nd, 2011 at 8:57 PM ^
Apparently I can't count :(
2007 was decent but not great. After that DOOM.
But the point remains - we haven't had a good defense in a long time.
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:18 PM ^
Was the 2006 defense "the best Michigan D ever."
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:27 PM ^
I know that for many of the fans posting here and elsewhere that 2006 was great defensively, and taken in context of how long they have been fans, that is the best they can remember, but they were not the best UM defense ever. Not by a long shot.
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:35 PM ^
Hate to burst your bubble but the 1997 defense was the best Michigan defense ever.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:15 PM ^
Jim Herrmann had the best defense in 1997. They were physical, fast and intimidating.
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<br>I watched the 1/1/1998 Rose Bowl game on BTN the other with my 9 year old son and he wanted to know why we don't play like that today. They had a tremendous pass rush and blitzed on almost every other play.
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<br>I was at the game with my wife and dad (alumni) and it was fuc@ing awesome.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:20 PM ^
From 80 forward, I would say the 85 defense was the best with 80 and 97 a close second.
We only gave up 98 points in 85.
I dont really think the 06 defense was that great, we seemed to give up quite a few points to the quality teams we played (OSU - 42, USC - 32, even ND was 20 something).
January 3rd, 2011 at 3:41 AM ^
The 85 defense was amazing.
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:09 PM ^
I agree. The 1997 defense was the best defense that UofM has ever had. By far
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:33 AM ^
The 1901 defense was better. 0 points allowed and M outscored its opponents 550-0.
(Just trying to be snarky--'85 was the best.)
January 3rd, 2011 at 3:56 PM ^
With those types of results, probably 90% of the fan base would be happy. The other 10% would complain that Yost was not a Michigan man.
January 3rd, 2011 at 3:26 AM ^
[Rick:] Much of Michigan’s recent problems have been because of the defense in my opinion, how is that being addressed and will they be improved this year? [Brian:] Uh… how recent? Despite a couple of rough games in ’05, that was still a lights-out unit statistically. This year it was considerably uglier. [Rick:] Well, looking at games against Ohio State and bowl opponents since 2003, Michigan is giving up 31.8 points per contest, including the 14 points that Ohio State got on a sloppy field this year. [Brian:] Michigan should improve, IMO: the only real losses are Shawn Crable and Jamar Adams. The entire D-line is back as is MLB Obi Ezeh and the top three corners. That’s about 7.5 starters if you grant that the third corner is as much of a starter as the third linebacker in modern football. It’s a weird unit with great experience and depth at DL and corner and zero at linebacker and safety; we’ll see. I couldn’t tell you much about how it will play out with an entirely new coaching staff.
January 2nd, 2011 at 8:56 PM ^
His playing history is on the offensive side of the ball and he is fond of blue and white shirts.
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:31 PM ^
Nice cross reference to the knucklehead who posted a new topic earlier today about RR wearing white/blue shirts. Very funny! One point for that!
January 2nd, 2011 at 8:57 PM ^
you're going to get beat to shit for starting yet another CC thread, but at least yours has a different slant. It's a good thought too, since IMO a strong OC could handle his own side of the ball anyway.
Not sure who all the strong D candidates would be, and for the record, I don't GAF if they have a Michigan tie or not (although it would be a plus).
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:01 PM ^
... but its worth the risk since I feel it was a good to get opinions on the subject from the more knowledgeable.
I only started watching football after attending Michigan from 2008 so admittedly I don't know much about the topic.
But I love Michigan and the football program's storied history and thought it was worth the neg bangs.
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:04 AM ^
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:05 AM ^
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:05 AM ^
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:36 AM ^
with the triple post!
January 3rd, 2011 at 3:28 AM ^
Triple post
January 3rd, 2011 at 8:23 AM ^
sigh
January 2nd, 2011 at 8:57 PM ^
IF Harbaugh comes in, I hope that he brings his current DC. Dude has recent NFL experience with the Ravens coaching LBer's and he would be a great get along with JH. He improved Stanford's defense quite a bit this year. Not sure how likely it is to bring him over, but even if he doesn't come along, I'm certain JH can get someone good.
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:03 PM ^
There's a rumor that UT is after him too. Though no one seems interested in a UT job these days, so I'd put my money on UM if JH comes.
January 2nd, 2011 at 8:58 PM ^
...CCCC post.
That's something, right?
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:04 PM ^
Sounds like the grades of the Michigan football team for the past 3 years.
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:30 PM ^
You're grading on a very generous curve there unfortunately
I like Rodriguez but if this year was a C (which I could agree with, although it could arguably have been a C+ or B-) then the previous 2 years were far below C-level.
January 2nd, 2011 at 8:59 PM ^
While 2006 had some very talented players, it was in no way the best D in Michigan history. They gave up 42 (I'm still trying to forget, but I think it was 42) to fOSU and a bunch to Hoke's Ball State. There's no way that would have happened against the '97 defense.
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:10 PM ^
Tell Oregon and Auburn that defense wins championships
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:16 PM ^
The last time someone with a bad D won the BIG Ten.
But then again - I started watching football in only 2008 so thats not much to go by.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:40 PM ^
I don't remember much about the Illinois defens in 2001, but Michigan won a share of the big ten title in 2000 and unil the RR era that was the worst Michigan defense I can remember.
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:36 PM ^
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:06 PM ^
If you are saying you would take Auburn's D this year over ours now, then most of the board would agree.
As for top D's though to win MNCs(yes, I realize they haven't won it yet), Auburn's D isn't that good.
January 2nd, 2011 at 10:38 PM ^
is not to bad statistically. The rank in the Top 20 in both scoring and total defense.
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:10 PM ^
If Gary Patterson was available, he'd fit this criteria
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:31 PM ^
As my dad always says, "Everyone's available for the right amount of money."
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:59 PM ^
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:27 PM ^
I've always been more a fan of seeing defensive coordinators promoted to HC jobs than offensive coordinators. I'm not going to do a number crunching study just for a CC thread, but just picking through my cloudy memory HCs that come from the defensive side of the ball seem to do better. I could also be biased because I see the flameouts who were OC's and I retain it more.
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:29 PM ^
2006 was the best defense ever? No. It was very good, but not a top 5, and struggled in its two biggest games (OSU and Rose Bowl)
And saying "the 2007 defense was good after the first two games" is like saying Kelsey Grammar delivered a great speech - after this happened:
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:31 PM ^
Coordinator is not as important as talent - the last good Michigan D (2006) had David Harris at MLB. Talent is a bigger issue.
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:49 PM ^
Players commit to coaches and programs.
A program with a history of good coaching and staff with connections to the NFL is more likely to attract pro talent. From what I see Gerg hardly recruits.
Also - you can fail terribly even if you have major talent (see UT/ USC).
There is no substitute for good coaching.
Coaching can make a Bad D look average
Average D look good
Good D look great
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:41 PM ^
GERG the WHITE. +1. He'll no doubt be reincarnated, but in someone else's trilogy.
January 2nd, 2011 at 11:46 PM ^
If he's GERG the White, wouldn't he already have been reincarnated? It'd kinda make sense that he was GERG the Grey at Syracuse and that his coaching career died there, only to be reincarnated at Michigan.
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:52 PM ^
1997-2005: Jim Herrmann
2006-2007: Ron English
2008: Scott Shafer
2009-2010: Greg Robinson
I don't think this denotes any institutional confusion with DC's. Herrmann was here a long time. (Boy, do I remember the howling demands that he be fired!). And Ron English was promoted from within. (I remember an awful lot of complaints about Ron English too!)
Even the most diehard Rodriguez supporter can't argue that the choices, after Jeff Casteel, have fallen off a cliff. But even the harshest Rodriguez critics would have to concede that things would have been better, maybe a lot better, with Jeff Casteel here. And since Brian Cook has rightly proclaimed that "There is a nonzero possibility that Rodriguez will be fired/keep his job," we should acknowledge that there is a nonzero possibility that all of the national coaching flux in place now could result in (A) the retention of Rodriguez and (B) the hiring of Jeff Casteel.
Since this is the internet, and anybody can say anything they want without consequence... I'd suppose that if we had had Jeff Casteel, Michigan would have had 1 or 2 more wins in 2008 (perhaps a 5-7 year); 2 or 3 more wins in 2009 (perhaps a 7-5 or 8-4 year) and 1 or 2 more wins this year (again, something like an 8 or 9-win season). Even our 2009 defense got us into OT in East Lansing; and I just wonder whether our defensive-side recruiting and personnel might not be different if we had a Jeff Casteel entering his fourth year now.
January 3rd, 2011 at 2:15 AM ^
People really did hate Jim Hermann for a few years there. The 97 defense was the best one I can remember though. God times have changed.
January 3rd, 2011 at 10:08 AM ^
I think people forget greg mattison. imo, he was the architect of the 1997 defense. in his few short years as D coordinator, he seemed to bring in the attacking-style defense. he left after 2006. Hermann benefited in 2007 and his D seemed to regress each year until he was finally forced out.
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:53 PM ^