Has everyone gone fucking crazy?
CC: The Case for Brady Hoke as #2 Candidate
succeeded in shitty conference and kinda succeeded in less shitty conference and hiring him would "reverse shittiness," you know the site's gone to shit.
but if we can't get him...weren't the criteria that you mention applicable for Harbaugh when he was hired at Stanford?
Also, Tressel was a D2 coach pre-OSU.
Hoke's offense lit it up against a pretty good Navy squad. I'd MUCH prefer Harbaugh but if he doesn't come Hoke wouldn't be a disastrous hire.
Have you not been to the site lately? It's a mad, mad, mad, mad world.
Dude, that made my morning.
I 'subscribed' to Rivals just so I could read the morning meltdown. Hopefully DB has this cleared up before my free 7 days is over. No way I'm paying those jokers.
He is giving the angry mob to much time to sharpen our pitchforks. This might turn out to be his greatest failure.
It will have to go a long way to beat the taste of Dominos pizza while he was CEO.
So, he waited and the gamble put him in a really hard spot:
1) Rich and team were blown out in there bowl game, and only reminded us why we can't stand this anymore. If anything Rich lost more fence sitters willing to go Harbaugh or if not, then retain Rich. If this is what DB ends up doing, he has an extremely hard sell to make. (If I were Rich I'd go find myself another job anyway.)
2) Harbaugh and team reminded us last night of what that ideal "Michigan Football" is that many want to get back too. It looked really convincing. (You don't think Harbaugh has more recruiting cache right now? Jim is going somewhere, because he has never said he is staying. And Elway aside -- Jim didn't play for Stanford, so the heart strings don't connect -- the NFL is a true threat.)
If DB lands Jim, then he is the man, if he misses ... well, what then. Rich, even with a radically revamped staff will be totally hamstrung. Brady Hoke (French car horn sounds here) would be a total let down with equally as much divisiveness undermining him. So, I believe, would be Les Miles. These "big names" we have been hearing about are more likely looking for contract re-negotiation leverage, than stepping into this mess.
The key is DB has to land someone, everyone can believe in. Fans on both sides, former players, current players, and recruits ...
This is it, this is DB's moment of true leadership. There is no greater a test of leadership is his post, and we are going to witness his skill.
Good luck to David.
Hoke has done a decent job in recent years -- but that pales in comparison to RR's resume when he came here from WVU.
I get that many of you are emotionally invested in a coaching change, no matter the end result. But Brady Hoke will unite the fanbase? COME ON!!!
While I'm on the subject, FWIW, Harbaugh won't unite the fanbase either. RR supporters like me aren't on board with Harbaugh (though I realize that we're the minority).
There is only one thing that will unite the fanbase: winning.
Not that I'm blown away by Hoke's resume, but please stop referring to Rodriguez's record at WVU as a reason why he should be retained. It's like your college transcripts: once you work for a few years, it doesn't mean as much as what you've done recently.
This is a rhetorical question right?
People have completely lost it. I have been a Michigan fan since I can remember and I didn't even know who the hell Brady Hoke was until last year. People are going to make fun of us.....a lot. Not a lot of people, but everyone is going to make fun of us a lot. I don't really care if people make fun of me, but people shouldn't be making fun of Michigan for who they hire.
Ha -- I'll volunteer for that task. I've done it numerous times already.
* Hoke is 52 years old. (That makes him different from, e.g., the 2001 version of Urban Meyer.) He has less "age" upside. Not a deal-breaker by itself, but something to consider.
* His lifetime record is 47-50. Oh, my. Most definitely not Urban Meyer 2001 (who _immediately_ took BGSU to high places in the MAC).
* He has been at SDSU only two seasons. He has done very well, yes, especially when their history as an underachieving school is considered. Good for him. But, Charlie Weis did just fine at ND for a couple of years. In case my point isn't clear, it would be nice to see sustained excellence.
* He's coached only in the minor leagues of college football. MAC & WAC. That doesn't mean he isn't a good coach, but he hasn't proved himself at a high level (like, say, the Big East).
In summary, Hoke may be (probably is, actually) a good man and a good coach. I believe he could have modest success at Michigan. But, a program of this stature (pardon the arrogance) can, I believe, do much better than him. It's that simple.
- - -
Aside: Is "Bill" (the OP) yet another magical Athletic Department gnome that's pimping Brady Hoke? Is there an endless supply of them? Did Brady bring them boxes of Twinkies when he worked here? I'm speechless.
at "He has been at SDSU". I'm not saying he is a bad coach. I just don't think he is at the level we need for recruiting. Unfortunately, recruits are looking for the big names calling their coaches a la Dick Satan; not Hoke. Not to say he couldn't come back and make us better, but the immediate impact on recruits would set us back. Quite frankly, we can't afford to regress in that area.
No JH, keep RR. Let him continue what he started. I vote RR with a new DC/Staff.
to the NO.
I'm just concerned about his ability to recruit the big names. Not the small names that are coachable and can win in lesser competition. Unfortunately, those guys won't help us too much against B1G and Alabama (2012).
If you ask an undecided recruit, without ties to a specific place, if they want to talk to Hoke, RR, or Saban; I can tell you what their answer will be. In order!
Why Brady Hoke? There has got to be somebody out there better than him and with more experience.
after Carr retired, we had to settle on our 3rd (possibly 4th choice) and hire RR. What makes anyone think that someone better is out there and would want to come to this mess?
Oh yea, "Cuz we're Michigan, rah rah rah".... We're actually a joke right now, and if Harbaugh doesn't come we'll be in the middle of yet another drawn out coaching search.
the contention that RR was low on our totem pole, and even that he was an unattractive hire, is pure horsepucky.
"Rodriguez is everything a Michigan fan could want in a hire; to get him after the month-long disappointment train that was the coaching search is manna from heaven." -- MGoBlog, 17 December 2007 (
Let's not be revisionist here.
Serious Question, I didn't follow the coaching hunt very closely last time around...
I'm warming up to the idea. He has been very impressive in his last two head coaching jobs. Can't argue with that. He will just need to bring in a top notch staff and I'll be content with Hoke.
He has been very impressive in his last two head coaching jobs.
He was 34-38 at Ball State (with exactly one impressive season out of 6) and is 13-12 at SDSU. We must have different definitions of "very impressive."
If he's the next coach, so be it, and I hope he does great, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that he's done anything to legitimately merit him being even considered for the job.
For some perspective on what consititutes "very impressive", Hoke took over a 6-6 Ball State team and spent the next 4 years under .500. It wasn't until Year 5 that he had as many wins as the year before he got there.
To compare, Urban Meyer took over a 2-9 Bowling Green team and went 8-3 and 9-3.
Everyone on here is not satisfied with incremental improvements from Rodriguez in 3 years, so you want the guy who took 5 years at a small MAC school to improve to the same record RR had this year.
Hoke is not some undiscovered gem. He seems to be a "good" coach. I think there is very little evidence that he is a "great "or even a "very good" coach.
I'm warming up to the idea of blowing chunks if Hoke is our next coach. It's not like he is a brilliant up and comer. He is a fucking Michigan Man retread. Maybe we can get the old band together? Where are all of the other old Michigan retreads we can find coaching linebackers or tight ends in the NFL?
It also took Hoke SIX years to get that underrated season. And they got sent to Bolivian in the bowl game. Hoke is third maybe fourth option.
Undefeated...god damn I hate autocorrect...
Didn't coach the Bowl game, I believe.
Who said anything about Randy Shannon? I don't remember hearing anything on him as a potential candidate. I don't know though, I still don't think Hoke is a proven coach yet. Nothing against him, but he is not #2 on the list.
...and he is us.
If Brady Hoke gets hired, this board should be shut down, immediately, to prevent mass hysteria and violence.
include 90% of MGoBloggers, apparently (see any and all of Brian's Hoke comments).
In 2008, he took bottom-dweller Ball State to an undefeated MAC record and national ranking
You're aware that he started coaching at Ball State in 2003, correct? And that prior to 2008, he was an astounding 22-37. He presided over that bottom-dweller for quite some time.
Pssssh, you an your "facts."
so you want Michigan to go 22-37 in the next 5 years? This was the MAC!! GREG could be the head coach and we could do better than that in the MAC!! HOKE IS A JOKE
Let's not say things we can't take back.
GERG went 10-37 at Syracuse. Brady Hoke is the second-coming of Vince Lombardi compared to that.
In 2011, he would unite the fractured fan base which has created huge program perception problems.
I think at this point any new name in the job would help - but don't see Hoke as a panacea here. Brian would be on suicide watch for one.
Please Dear god NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nothing against Hoke, but with all this CC stuff, I think my lungs are filling with fluid and my eyes are turning into goop. If I make it through this, it will be a miracle.
Hoke isn't the end of the world assuming we also pony up big bucks for some skilled coordinators. If you did some variation of the "Getting the Band Back Together" and called the best of the Carr home plus threw major money at some hot young names you'd get a staff that wouldn't make me cringe. If Carr says Hoke is qualified to coach in the B10, I'll trust Carr.
Although if you're doing that, throw major money around on the D side of the ball, get a Special Teams coach and give a grad assistant a tazer. The GA's only job is follow RR around and if he tries to tamper with the D or a kicker he gets zapped. Have Carr and Moeller lead the search for the D-Coord and make it clear to RR that he is not to touch that side of the ball. If that fails I guess you go with "Dump truck full of cash" and "Urban Meyer's driveway".
Personally I'd take Hoke over Fitzgerald. Hoke did time on Carr's staff (up to the level of assoc head coach) and clearly wants to be here (whereas we'd be ripping Fitzgerald away from his alma mater if he came). Bo's assistants worked out damn well for us (despite Moeller's shitty record at Illinois) so I'm willing to try hiring off the Carr tree.
Carr thought Mike DeBord was qualified to coach, to hell with that.
I wouldn't trust Carr for my offensive hiring needs, but I trust that man to know defensive talent when he sees it. At this point I'd say he's much more qualified to interview potential D-Coords than RR is.
Pulling Bo away from his alma mater (Miami University) ended up working out pretty well.
I think Hoke is qualified to coach in the Big 10, but so are dozens of other guys out there. The issue is whether he'd be better than RR, and I don't see any reason to believe that. RR' s overall track record is much more impressive even given his bungling with the defense here, and that's correctable if the new DC is given dictatorial power.
JH would be the obvious #1 choice, but since it doesn't look like it will pan out, Hoke seems to be a solid backup plan.
Just about any coach will be a vast improvement over the current albatross of a coaching staff and the complete shambles the program is in.
Just wish our AD would get on with the "process" and end all of this freaking drama. Show RR the door so we can get someone in and move on with recruiting.
Look, I don't get some of the Hoke bashing, but realistically, I don't think he is a real option right now. He just doesn't have the BCS level credentials that Harbaugh has. I really still think it's Harbaugh or Rodriguez. As frustrated as I am right now, I still wouldn't want to give up on 4th year of continuity under RR for the complete unknown quantity, that is Hoke.
I saw something that said that DB was prepared to pay JH $4 Mil per year. If that falls through I say keep RR (for the continuity sake) and pay some huge name DC to come in and overhaul.
I like Hoke as an option...a bit mor than Harbaugh because of his body of work. I am probably wrong but I feel like under Harbaugh we would be an unexciting team and perhaps Hoke can add a little flair or spark. Can we get a little bit of that Les Miles personality without the grass eating possibly?
I like Hoke as an option...a bit mor than Harbaugh because of his body of work.
You owe me a new head, because mine just exploded. You might want to go back and compare Hoke and Harbaugh's respective bodies of work and then reconsider your statement.
Stop calling Ball State a "bottom dweller;" People are throwing his around before looking at the facts.
In the three years PRIOR to hiring Hoke Ball State went: 5-6, 6-6, and 6-6. It's by no means amazing, but it's not "bottom dweller" either.
Hoke took over in 2003 and promptly went 4-8. Then 2-9, then 4-7, then 5-7. It took him until 2007 to turn in a season (7-6) that was better than any of Ball State's previous three seasons.
No doubt, Ball State had 2 bad seasons in the late 90's, but prior to that they wee a .500-or-better team.
In 2011, he would unite the fractured fan base
Trololo guy as the next head coach?
No kidding. There's no evidence that this would happen. In fact, I know I for one would panic more than I am now
Compare that resume to RR's and think about whether it makes sense. The only credible benefit is this "uniting the fractured fan base" thing which is getting more ridiculous by the day. It is very unfortunate this anti-RR portion of the fan base couldn't have put aside their preconceptions and been more supportive from the beginning. Things could have been at least somewhat better.
I'm rolling with the Pat Fitzgerald Plan B mafia.
The truth is it's going to take a Harbaugh to rally the troops and reunite the fractured fanbase. I just don't see Hoke having that ability, and it's through no fault of his own
My guess is this place would explode if Minn didn't hire Jerry Kill and UM did. Kill has a better resume than Brady Hoke so if we are only talking about Hoke because 1) he has Michigan ties and 2) his current job was in the same city that Harbaugh came from (San Diego) then I'm not interested at all. I'm sure he's a fine coach but going from Ball State to SDSU should explain his potential for the Michigan job.
I'd rather go after Mattison the DC for the Ravens under John H before I pushed Hoke up the list.
In my interpretation of the overwhelming sentiment of the whole CC situation this is the heart of the matter: A Michigan Man is the only answer. Which is of course ridiculous. This Brady Hoke thing is already causing people to choose sides, yet he'll "unite the fanbase" or "provide a spark". Honestly, at this point there's only one thing that will unite this fan base-JH. If that doesn't happen we'll in all likelihood be destined for an "entertaining" 9 months.
I get that Brady Hoke is not Jim Harbaugh. I don't think that there is a rational being out there that would have Hoke as his #1 candidate. But, when considering a coaching change, you don't just have a #1 candidate - you need back-up plans, and to me, Hoke is as good of a Plan B as any coach out there.
If JH turns us down, whar are out options:
1. Brady Hoke - has ties to Michigan, coached the National Championship team, so he could install some link to our storied past as opposed to our muddled present. We need that to remind the new kids of what Michigan was and will again become. He has also shown an ability to coach. He has ties to the midwest, understands the B10 and can recruit very well.
2. RR - if RR stays, does anyone here believe that the controversy surrounding our coaching position will immediately die? Hell, it will increase and RR will remain "on the hot seat" for all of next season. Even if he wins his first 8 games, everyone will be expecting the usual collapse and pantsing by the better teams on our schedule (i.e. Nebraska followed by OSU). The drama will continue, our defensive recruiting will crater even more than it currently has and the fan base will further divide. Our once storied program will fall further into disrepair. To me, RR is no longer a viable option - not because he can't coach (although I do have my doubts about his ability to coach in the B10), but because the perception has overtaken any possible reality and the situation has become toxic.
3. Please fill in other names here. If there are any other good candidates for this job, please let me know, because I don't see any others.
Jim Herrmann was on that 1997 staff. Why not hire him?
I think Pat Fitzgerald would be better then RR (whom I was a HUGE supporter of until the PSU game this year) or Hoke. He's familiar with the Big 10. He runs the spread. And he's been pretty successful considering what he's had to work with. Chris Petersen from Boise is another option. We shouldn't settle on a coach just because he has ties to MIchigan's great past.
In 2011, he would unite the fractured fan base which has created huge program perception problems.
The fact that he is Brady Hoke, and will likely remain as such for the forseeable future.
If Harbaugh does in fact deny Michigan (sad face), would Les Miles be a better fit than Brady Hoke? Do you think he even has any interest in the job?
I would prefer sucking to this:
At LSU, Les Miles went grim reaper this year on three different someones -- none more appallingly than Elliott Porter. Porter is a freshman offensive lineman from Waggaman, La., who signed with LSU in February, qualified academically, reported to summer school in June and started taking classes. After two months as a member of the LSU football family, Porter was summoned last week from his dorm room to Les Miles' office to hear that he wasn't part of the family anymore. Sorry, son. You're out. The NCAA allows a team to add 25 scholarship freshmen, and LSU had gone over that limit. Someone had to go, and that someone was Elliott Porter.
Miles is getting good at this. In March, when he first started to suspect that he had signed too many players -- he intentionally went over the 25-signee limit, assuming several would fail to qualify -- Miles took away the scholarship of linebacker Houston Bates, who went to Illinois. Last month, still needing to whittle down to get his overall roster to the NCAA-allowed maximum of 85 scholarship players, Miles cut redshirt freshman quarterback Chris Garrett. That slash of his scythe was especially galling, seeing how one year earlier Miles had talked Garrett out of his oral commitment to Mississippi State. Last week Garrett, after being screwed out of two SEC schools by Les Miles, transferred to Northwestern State. I don't know what NCAA division that school is in. Not even sure what state it's in.
Les has the wins, but he has way too many skeletons in his closet for me to want him. If it comes down to it, I prefer to lose my pride on the field as opposed to via shady practices off it.
Please no. Incompetent and sleazy is no way to go through life, son.
and keep Magee as OC? He has been with RR long enough and will keep the O as is.Since he interviewed for the USF job, he has head coaching aspirations and likely only wants to be an OC for 1-3 more years, so seperating from RR now isn't that big of a deal.
If Brandon was going to fire Rich Rod no matter what; then why hasn't Rich Rod been fired yet? Why make him wait around when he could have closure and look for a new job? Could it still be Harbaugh #1 Rich Rod #2. Why wait to fire him?
.......in less than a half-hour. Who'd have thought that Hoke was such a hot/controversial subject as HC?
After the Gator bowl, I fully got behind the notion of upgrading at the coaching position. Hoke is not an upgrade. In fact, he is the complete opposite. Panic firings and hiring unqualified individuals with a high degree of potential failure thereby leading to more chaos and uncertainty in the program is straight out of the ND playboook. Given the actions of our insular, delusional, living-in-the-past fanbase over the past three years, I am sadly resigned to the fact that is the path we are most likely heading down.
would not unite the base.
Look, I am not a Hoke hater, he has done a nice job...but he hasn't done enough of a job to get the Michigan gig. Sorry. The resume says that.
And you think the fan base disliked RR? Wait until Hoke goes 6-6 in his first season, which I think is more than 50% probability.
I'll say this: I certainly would trust Hoke's ability to hire assistants over Rodriguez. Giving Rodriguez a third crack at a DC is the same as giving Matt Millen his third crack at a head coach.
If we want to look at wins and losses and the Michigan family tree there's one clear #2 and it's not Hoke. One clue: he eats grass.
before taking over at Auburn. We all know where AU is at.
Will Hoke do the same? I don't know, but a losing record does not mean a guy is terrible.
I'z lost weight. Cheeze burgers!!!!!!!!!!!!
If a losing record doesn't mean a coach is terrible, then why not keep Rodriguez for the remainder of his contract?
Jim Harbaugh, Rich Rodriguez, Gary Patterson, Pat Fitzgerald, Gus Malzahn, Jon Gruden, Lou Holtz, Lee Corso, Desmond Howard, Mike Hart, Jose Mourinho, Landon Donovan, Michael Jordan, Larry Brown, Charles Barkley, Stan Bowman, and Bill Simmons.
Mary sue and Dave says i's gets free cheezebugers with my contract. I will loves me some Mr. Spots cheezebugers
A real man eats wings at Spots.
Wings is good too! Ron likes wings and mikey too! Lloyd likes cheezeburgers
OP are you completely insane?
1) That's not really the correct usage of the phrase "throw ____ under the bus" but ok...
2) Really? An undefeated season in the fucking MAC is now cause for excitement about a coach? I just threw up in my mouth a little....
If that excites you then hey, I have an idea. Let's join the MAC, re-hire RR, and when we go undefeated in the MAC next year you can be excited about RR.
3) He had a slightly above average season at SDSU. These things happen from time to time, so what.
4) If there are former players and alums who place a higher priority on cronyism than excellence in the search for a new coach.... with all due respect they can go fuck themselves. If they would rather see one of their pals get the job than someone with bona fide success, they are toxic people and the sooner they are alienated from the program, the better.
Hoke has had more losing seasons than winning seasons.
And, bottom line... As Brian said on the front page, if Hoke was a former MSU assistant, his name would not even be brought up, he wouldn't even be on people's radar let alone being seriously considered. You can't argue with that, and it's quite a damning indictment of Michigan football's culture. The fact that he is being considered indicates cronyism of the worst kind.
Hopefully we get someone else. (Patterson, please?) In the meantime, all of you people who are even entertaining the thought that Hoke could possibly be a good option are legit completely insane.