It took five seasons for Hoke to field a winning team at Ball State (7-6). No doubt SDSU had a nice 2010 season, though.
further adventures in Jed York being unsuited for his position
It took five seasons for Hoke to field a winning team at Ball State (7-6). No doubt SDSU had a nice 2010 season, though.
I hard he went 11-2 at bsu.
In Hoke's sixth (and final) season, Ball State went 12-1 under his direction, winning 12 straight before losing to Buffalo in the MAC Championship Game. He then left for SDSU before BSU's bowl game (which they lost).
His actual record is why he shouldn't be a viable candidate. Yet.
He takes over shitty teams and he's supposed to win his first year? Cfb is all what have you done for me lately. Hoke improves terrible teams.
RR has arguably made michigan worse since he came here. The team is getting butt-hurt against any decent team in 3 years. People around here were debating if the mnc's were going to start this year or next.
I've supported rr until yesterday, saying all he would need is a non-first year starting qb and a new dc, but nobody seems to be progressing.
He would not have a clue on how to use our current roster. The next three years would make the last three seem like a stroll through Disney World.
He wouldn't know how to use a successful offensive line with four returning starters? He wouldn't know how to use two quarterbacks with a year of starting experience or another who was considered the top QB in his high school class? He wouldn't know how to use four receivers (two of the slot and two of the outside variety) with multiple years of experience? Maybe you were saying that he won't be able to match the defensive output of the last three years?
To be very clear and plain, he would have no clue how to use Denard or any of the myriad offensive weapons that we have acquired and trained for the past three years to run the spread offense. It is agreed by all that the defense is a rebuild at this point. With Hoke, the offense would be as well as it is retooled to run schemes that Hoke comrehends.
At least with Harbaugh, I believe he would be able to use the weapons available to him on offense in a coherent manner.
I'm not sure our current staff knows how to use them.
Even if we played D, 14 points will not cut it. Whenever, we ran into a good D the Offense disappeared. Case closed.
Roy Roundtree singlehandedly made sure it was only 14 points by dropping two of the most insanely easy passes I have ever seen. Not that it would have changed the game's outcome, but still, just sayin'.
Are you an expert on hoke and his capabilities? I haven't seen him coach or more importantly talked to him about offensive philosophy. Its god to have someone oin here who knows him so well.
SDSU was a spread team before Hoke took over including their 2008 season. Y1 with Hoke was 4-8 with shitty players left over from Chuck Long. Y2 was this year's 8-4 making Hoke 13-12 (including bowl game) with a former spread offense. I think he could do the same or better with higher caliber athletes.
Being a good head coach is more about getting the players and personnel in place to win than x's and o's imho. X's aand O's are the coordinator and position guys. This is why I think of RR as a great OC and a head-coach-in-training. Shafer has gotten it done before and after AA. GERG was fail before and has certainly been fail at AA.
No offense, but I am not looking to 4-8 for next season. That would be unacceptable. I would rather proceed with RR, and a new defensive coordinator who is allowed to bring in his own position coaches.
I don't think anybody goes 4-8 with the athletes we have (or may have). That was the point of my post. I don't think just because we change systems we go back to that again. Hoke transitioning SDSU from the spread shows that he has experience doing just that and it wouldn't be 4-8 again.
I think with a good coach not named RR we go 6-6 or 7-5 with the kids we have now...assuming the DC doesn't have a flowing maine of perfect hair.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think 4-8 is probably a good estimate of what you would get out of him if he tried to transform this team next year to his system. In other words, disaster. He would have better talent at his disposal, but would be up against much more severe competition that he is used to at SDSU or Ball St.
Coach Rodriguez, is that you? Man, no wonder your teams underperform - you spend way too much time posting here.
First of all, Tom Brady, despite my man crush on him, was not all that in HS. IIRC, he wasn't exactly a prized recruit.
Gene Chizik was also on the Auburn staff that went undefeated and got hosed out of a chance to play for the NC. He also co-DCed (along with GERG I believe?) the 2005 Texas sqaud. Despite his failures at ISU (it's ISU for crissakes, how they're in a BCS conference I don't know) he had a damn fine resume. As for the whole Cam Newton ordeal, you still have to get out there every gameday and execute. All the money in the world can't make you do that.
That said, I'm hesitant to give Hoke the job. I don't know enough about him or his offensive schemes but I'd rather give RR and Denard with another year under the belt a shot before him.
Brady was something like the #10 pro-style QB in the country in one of the rankings. He probably would have been a four-star recruit in today's system.
He left his alma mater, a place where he was successful and loved. He gave that up to be a part of something bigger. RRod is a Michigan Man.
would take responsibility for his errors and deficiencies. RR has not ever, not once, done that. There are problems with execution. There are problems with the defense. There are oh so many problems that have nothing to do with he or his vaunted offensive staff.
I am sick of it.
I think the reason Brandon says Beilein is a stand up guy, is that Beilien is a stand up guy. He takes responsibility when it's necessary. He's innovative, but responsible. He understands offense and defense. Granted, easier in basketball than football.
Rodriguez is the opposite. He accepts no personal responsibility. He's a decent coach. He's a great offensive coordinator. Of all the football teams in America, we are maybe the last program that can afford an offensive coordinator as its head coach.
A head coach, must and will be, more than gap blocking assignments on the o line. It's about the team. The Team. THE TEAM.
Where does the THE TEAM include the coach blaming players every tough game about the lack of execution? Maybe a couple times. Maybe a game or two. Its every stinkin' game we lose.
Good luck at Clemson. I wish you well.
I look forward to the Fighting Harbaughs next year.
Players seem to love him and respect him. Do you know some gushy details about RR that the rest of us don't know? Does he eat aborted fetuses for dinner? Does he tell his players that if they don't perform "he'll send them back to the ghetto to get shot like their homies"?
Well, some players love and respect him. Many of the others transfer.
I would not reduce it to "some". A handful of transfers out of 85 scholarship players does not mean only some love him.
about RR's sincerity to his players or their appreciation for him. Look, every team loves its coach, and vice versa. But look at the rest of the job. This is a CEO position for all intents and purposes. How did he handle the media, how did he handle the alumni, how did he handle the football bust, did he take responsibility for the team's failures?
People like to rag on Lloyd 3 years ago. Fact is, that Lloyd Carr was a great coach. He is ready to retire, and didn't have the energy to go balls out for the last couple ,years. Yet, in 06 we almost played for his second shot at a national championship.
I'm not saying that the new coach has to be a Carr Clone. But, Rodriguez was a "splash" hire who turned out incapable of managing a bigtime program. It's that simple, really.
It doesn't matter that, as a person, I think he's genuine, or that I like him. What matters is that he hasn't done his job. Before this year, and before the Ohio State game, I was ready to give him another year, with a new coordinator, and see what he could do. Bring in Shannon, or Casteel, and let him have a last hurrah. It's now beyond that. The offense scored 14 points yesterday, and was throttled by OSU and Wisc.
I'm sick of setting bad records with this coach, and I'm sure that Brandon and Mary Sue are, too.
It's kind of hard to handle the media and alumni when they're against you from the beginning. Carr was not a good coach. Good coaches don't lose at home to App St as the #5 team at home. Good coaches adjust after getting their asses handed to them by Syracuse and Oregon (not in 2007). Good coaches don't lose as many bowl games as Carr did. Good coaches don't lose to OSU as often as he did. Good coaches make changes. Stop living off 1997. If he really didn't have the energy to go balls out for the last two years then he should have retired right then and there. He did a great disservice to the program if he wasn't giving it his all.
Frustrating? I don’t know if that’s the correct word. We just come to work. I mean, one thing I’m proud of the players and the staff is we have not cheated the University of Michigan a day of work, and I wouldn’t allow it and I wouldn’t let our staff allow it, wouldn’t let our players allow it and never have in my entire coaching career. And we’re paid to do a job, and we did it as hard and as well as we could with some obstacles, but everybody is going to have obstacles.
This whole Michigan Man thing is getting to be a destructive crock of shit. The message is being sent out loud and clear that you can't come here and be successful if you are not already somehow "from here". This is not what the University of Michigan is about and it should be stopped before it goes any further. It already has damaged the program under the current coach and it shouldn't be allowed to continue.
I'd love to see Loeffler make his way back. That would be awesome on its own, regardless of how I feel about CC.
If we dump the spread and go back, I hope he's brought back quickly.
I was thinking about this the other day, will Loeffler be retained at Florida? Probably not if Weis is hired, I would guess, so he should be available.
Edit: @Steve in PA: Loeffler has been coaching in a spread offense for the past two years at Florida.
Florida has a different flavor of spread than ours. Guess I should have been more clear on that.
He wouldn't be option A or B, but annybody who had a hand in that '97 defense is alright with me.
Can you tell me why?
Have you not watched the defense and special teams?
That said, I'd rather have RichRod than Brady Hoke.
We're close to something really good I think. People still forget, Denard was a first year starter. Yes our offense stalled at times but it also looked damn good at times. I'm not ready to blow this thing up yet. The defense has the pieces to be good and the players love him. These are guys that spend all day, everyday with him. I'm willing to take that into consideration before I listen to some old fart on a message board bitch and moan about how he's not a Michigan man (not saying you are, just in general).
But the defense scares me. I'm a 33 year old Michigan fan, I was born and raised on defense first, and I must admit, I arrogantly thought that when RichRod came, the defense would stay the same, but the offense would change... It all changed, and while for the good on offense, the defense just shows me no signs of being a Michigan defense. I like Martin, Demens, and Roh, but I don't see much else that gets me excited. The secondary, while young, never showed any improvement, not even a glimpse. As long as Ray Vinopal and Jordan Kovacs start, this won't be a Michigan defense. It won't be good enough for the Big Ten. Today, they looked lost out there, and that scares me, cause this should have been the game, four weeks to prepare, your defensive and head coaches jobs are on the line, and you look --- lost, confused, and out of postion... I can't take that, I'm sorry. Like I said, like I am sure so many other people, I thought RichRod taking over, the offense would change, and I think we all know the conditioning would change, but never in my wildest dreams would I ever think that a Michigan defense could be ranked dead last in the Big Ten, not to mention amongst the worse in the nation. I see defensive bodies, but not a couple of five star blue chippers, which is what this defense needs, along with so much more ... and wow, I didn't even bring up the special teams, but, well... I don't know. I hate being negative, but I hate losing more. All the offensive signs, by the way, that this offense has shown glimpses of, we're against weak competition... Sad to say, against top tier teams, this offense didn't show much of anything. We have to admit this isn't working.
It sucks to say it, but... We need to move on.
Agree the defense and special teams are a total nightmare and one that we've all unfortunately had to live through. That said after watching the Rose Bowl tonight, I don't think we need 5 star recruits to have a Michigan defense again. Sure it would help, but TCU shut down Wisconsin with a bevy of 2 and 3* guys. This gives me hope that with a good d-coordinator that a true-freshman like Ray Vinopal could develop into a Tank Carder. I realize it will take a miracle, but it's not completely beyond the realm of possibility and that gives me at least an optimistic glint of hope.
We're close to something really good I think.
Did you watch today's game? Keep in mind that we had a month to prepare for it.
Offense cannot play against a good defense.
Special teams are a debacle, not just kicking.
Defense if the worst in program history
Keep in mind dropped passes, a true sophmore QB and the lack of a viable run game outside of Denard.
........as our HC. If he is named the coach, then fine, I will support him. But I believe even without JH that there are many better coaches out there that UM could have.
I understand everybody has different opinions on Hoke, but we need to trust DB. I'll support whatever he decides because he wants to win worse than we do. As painful as today was, it was worse for him, I'm sure. I wouldnt want to be the AD right now.
You could call Gruden, but he wouldn't take the job. Hoke would. Fans underestimate just how difficult it is to get a coach to leave what he's doing and move hundreds of miles away to Ann Arbor. A guy like Harbaugh coming is like winning the lottery - most schools couldn't dream of landing a coach of his caliber.
Hoke is well thought-of in Michigan circles. He produced some excellent D-linemen. If he hadn't left for Ball State, he'd have probably become our DC after Herrmann left. As it was, he turned around BSU - it took a little longer than we may have liked, but he did it. And he seems to be turning SDSU into a quality program as well. Yeah, he wouldn't be a candidate if he hadn't coached here, but that's the point - he has worked here, so he's familiar with the school, the program, and its challenges and strengths. He knows what fans/alumni expect. He wouldn't be caught off-guard by things like the #1 jersey. Does this mean we should hire him now? Well . . . I would probably still say no, because I'd like to see where he can take SDSU, but sometimes you don't have the luxury of waiting. There are rumblings that the braintrust really likes him.
Yes, Yes, and Yes, except JH may still say No. That's the whole point of this thread.
This whole #1 jersey thing, for starters, is a self-serving bunch of crap put out by this drunk SUV-driving, pass-dropping, taunting, can't-play-in-cleveland, "I'm on the committee to fire RR" moron on the Jets. Forget it. No one made that big a deal out of it before him. It is the freaking Anthony Carter jersey.
For those of you who don't recall Braylon Edwards asked for the AC #1 jersey early in his career at Michigan only to be told NO by LC. He did eventually get it later on but only after shamelessly pleading.
Can we please stop with this nonsense?
I half-agree with your point re persuading top coaches to move to AA. With the NFL guys, yes, that would take some real snake-oil. They're used to a certain big-city lifestyle.
But with college coaches, I do think M remains a very desirable job -- one of the top 10 or so in the NCAA. The team is struggling, yes. It will require some heavy lifting. And, not least, the money ain't quite the same (though that may change somewhat). But still. Michigan is a huge "brand." It gets the most national exposure (after ND); it has the biggest stadium, terrific facilities, and a still-great tradition and reputation. And it's not as if the program has been in some endless death-spiral. It's only been a few years.
Any good coach thinks of himself as more than up to any job, if given the right resources and opportunities. Michigan affords huge advantages over most other programs. The Michigan name will automatically get him in the door, at least, with many or most top recruits. M is a pretty easy sell when the program is stable and on a winning track.
Finally, don't discount the ego factor. Places like TCU, Boise State, and Utah remain backwaters. Most fans still don't know jack about those teams. Coaches want recognition and exposure and branding. They want to show what they can do on the biggest stage. Granted, some may stay loyal to their current perches; some, like Schiano, may hold out for some other pie-in-the-sky job. But most are careerists. They want the big-ticket programs. I think many would love nothing more than to be the guy who brings M back to greatness.
It's because we don't have time for a coaching search and because everyone knows Hoke would jump at the opportunity
People, please. Here's a thought exercise I suggested to another person yesterday:
If we were just now saying goodbye to Lloyd after three years of eight wins, would Brady Hoke even be in the conversation?
He's 52 (not young) and has a handful of good seasons to his credit in the minor leagues of college football. He's not Urban Meyer in 2001 (for example). Far from it.
He did not "turn around" Ball State. He had a single good season there.
- - -
Here's what happening: People are starting to panic. They're desperate (understandably) to get rid of Rodriguez and they'll take *anything* (e.g., a coach who is, based on the evidence, second-tier at best) in his place.
Michigan, its alumns, and its fans are capable of better thinking. Let's see it.