You cannot possibly be this dense.
further adventures in Jed York being unsuited for his position
You cannot possibly be this dense.
It's the same way Doug Dutch and Walter Cross always "had a tremendous spring."
"I think he will be a great coach somewhere"
If you describe someone as being a "great coach" in the future tense, it's not a ringing endorsement f how he coaches now.
He's a great recruiter because he may have been involved in recruiting Tom Brady? You have to remember that...
1) There weren't any recruiting services back then, so who knows how highly-touted Brady was as a recruit, and
2) Brady was rather "meh" in college, especially compared to his current NFL success. He was a back up for 2 years, and then split time with Henson. He even went to a sports psychologist and considered transferring over his lack of playing time.
He probably would've been a "Mike Hart" 3 star.
Agree with your general sentiments especially regarding the change in the last decade in recruiting services with the growth of the internet. But just wanted to mention that it is normal for all top athletes to work with sports psychologists and Michigan is lucky to have one of the best in Greg Harden. He is truly one of the usung heroes of the athletic department and had quite a lot to do with Charles Woodson's progression both on and off the field. I would even say that neither Tom Brady or Charles Woodson would have realized the success that they've had without Greg's help.
ultimately starting every game in the 1998 and 1999 seasons under Michigan head coach Lloyd Carr. During his first full year as starter, he set Michigan records for most pass attempts and completions in a season (214). Brady was All-Big Ten (honorable mention) both seasons and team captain his senior year. The Wolverines won 20 of 25 games when he started and shared the Big Ten Conference title in 1998. Brady capped that season with a win over Arkansas in the Citrus Bowl. In the 1999 season, Brady led Michigan to an overtime win in the Orange Bowl over Alabama, throwing for 369 yards and four touchdowns.
your point #2 cut and paste from wikipedia was selective to your argument.
Compared to his exceptional NFL career, I think it's safe to say Brady's college career wasn't all that amazing. That's all I'm saying. Is that even possible to argue? I'm not saying he was even bad or average in college; he was good - but not exceptional. He was a 6th round draft pick. The point I was making was that Brady more than likely wasn't a huge recruiting coup for Hoke coming out of HS. Again, he wasn't a lousy recruit, but definitely not someone that should be single-handidly carrying someones reputation as a recruiter for over a decade.
Everything in #2 is likely common knowledge among people on this blog; it was not "cut and pasted." Whether or not it was from Wikipedia is largely irrelevant even if it had been.
" I think he will be a great coach somewhere, "
Isn't that the kind of thing girls say to blow off mediocre guys?
I think at this point if Harbaugh rejects us we'd have to look at him. Keeping Rodriguez isn't an option after today.
I just don't see any possible way that RR comes back after today's game. All of Michigan's six losses were by double digits. The last three were by 20, 30 and 38.
I was at the game and Mississippi State absolutely had its way against Michigan. They could do whatever they wanted whenever they wanted. I'm sure that DB has seen enough.
Yeah, the worst part is Mississippi State isn't anywhere near an elite team. It just showed how far away we are in year 3. Watching the ND-Miami game the announcers reported a really interesting quote by Brian Kelly, which was something like, "I can manufacture offense, I recruit for defense." I love Rodriguez and wish him the best, but it's pretty clear his early recruiting sold out to convert our offense and with the attrition our defense has completely cratered. And while our offense has undeniably looked good this year, given the number of scholarships we've dedicated to running back and slot receiver and how Denard's running opens things up, it's disappointing that we haven't unearthed an all Big Ten caliber guy at either position. I don't feel good about giving up on Rodriguez, it's going to be a painful transition back, but ultimately today just showed we're in an untenable transition long term with him as HC. If we give him another year it's another year of uncertainty with recruiting etc. with no guaranteed payoff. Today showed we're at least a year from good under Rodriguez and we ultimately want to be better than good. We want to be and have the resources to be elite.
I heard this exact same quote from Kelly and thought of the same thing. In fact, I feel like I could just copy your post and repost it as my own feelings. But I won't. I'll just give you +1.
Ball State and San Diego State are not Michigan. Not big enough for the program, etc.
I think we could do worse. I think he "get's it" and would come in with the understanding of Michigan and what it takes to be successful here. Likely to surround himself with former players and coaches to rebuild the brand. Which is what Brandon is likely looking for. I'm sure that within 2 years here we look like "Old Michigan" and maybe that's what scares everyone too. Old Michigan was consistant, not awesome.
Don't question where the guy's from if he can coach. Although I hate to say it, OSU plucked a pretty damn good coach out of Youngstown St. The program he's from doesn't make a coach, just like hiring from a big program doesnt mean the coach will be succesful (RR)
At Youngstown St and was a proven winner who deserved a shot at the big time... has BH accumulated similar credentials??
I don't remember numbers exactly, but during joe pa's 400th, they showed wins by school. We were in the top 5, 11 behind osu. That included rr's 3 year debacle. That says consistently great.
People like Harbaugh and Gary patterson are guys you fire your current coach for after 3 years. Hoke, is a guy that you hire after five+ years of mediocrity and looking to bring in some new blood. That's the Tressel route.
Hoke can coach. People don't like him because he looks like a squatter, less attractive version of Mike Golic. He loves Michigan and would do well here.
He seems like a nice guy.
+1 for the Tommy Boy reference.
Gene Chizik went 5-19 in two seasons at Iowa State before he was hired at Auburn. The Auburn fans were livid about the hire at the time but it seems to have worked out pretty well for them.
The next hire will be as much about football philosophy and cultural fit as it will be about a resume. Brady Hoke probably has some kind of relationship with DB because of his history with Michigan football. If DB thinks that he's a good fit, that could go a long way (regardless of his record at Ball State or SDSU).
Gene Chizik is the product of having Scam Newton on the team. I have my doubts they're gonig to be beating Alabama and LSU once he declares for the draft this year.
& Gus Malzahn...
but if newton stays they are great again next year and if we get rid of rodriguez denard transfers to auburn, sits out a year, and auburn goes 12-0 for 4 straight years
So we hire Hoke and drop $250,000 on a player to get the Chizik coaching rise from 7 wins to a title shot?
Look its Jimmy or bust for us. Everyone of us knows if we don't get him Rich should stay. Jimmy is the only guy that will get 85% percent of our fan base “All In” the other 15 percent will tell you to sit down for Hoke.
We need a tough guy like JH to come here and shut people up that are in the shadows. Yes I'm looking at you scientist!
You drop $250,000 on his father, and then it's not your fault.
Though more seriously, if all it took was a superstar QB, we'd be playing for the National Title too.
it is irellevant what to think of him. He is a good coach, but would need to have to rise to a Patterson level dominance for a long time before even being considered.
He may have been a good candidate for Indiana. For M, he's not in that league yet, if ever.
Reason 1: Not a "Michigan Man", born in Dayton, Ohio.
Reason 2: Did not play football for Michigan, for Bo, Mo or Lloyd.
Reason 3: Overall head coaching record YTD is 47-50.
Reason 4: Too much finger-pointing going on:
Reason 5: Stan Parrish was better.
Three winning seasons in eight years of coaching. Since when was that allowable at Michigan? Rod already has him beat with a winning season in his 3rd year. Took Hoke five. let's see him actually win over a long stretch at one school befroe he gets crowned. At least Tressel was regularly winning titles at Youngstown St. before gonig to the big leagues.
1. He coached at Michigan, that makes him a Michigan man
2. Carr never played at Michigan and he was a damn good coach
3. So what about his records? He came in to a Ball St. program that was 4-8 his first year to a 12-1 team: SDSU ws 4-8 hs first year, then 9-4. He turns programs around
I agree. SDSU was terrible for many years before Hoke arrived. Ball State has not been good since he left. He almost beat TCU. I think it is crazy to suggest he couldn't do well at Michigan. At least we know he gets the culture here. It wouldn't be an odd fit from that perspective.
Then why do most anti-RR folks say he isn't a Michigan man? He is. And he's improving the team every season, after losing key players to transfers and graduation in 2008 on both sides of the ball.
Oh, and Lloyd was also part of the Michigan coaching staff for FOURTEEN YEARS before becoming head coach. it took him almost 30 years of his coaching career to get the call to be Michigan's head coach. And yet, Hoke gets it handed to him for being a Michigan assistant for seven years, and not even being associated with the program for eight.
Pretty sure at that point, "Michigan man" goes out the window and it's about resume, which Hoke doesn't have.
You seriously are still in favor of this guy as our coach? There hasn't been ANY improvement. If you've ever watched a Michigan game in these last 3 years, you would be able to tell the are a poorly coached team. Guys don't know where they're supposed to be, and we get stupid penalties. Our defense has gotten worse. So what if our record's improving these last 3 years, our team is not and will not under RR. We lost to OSU 42-7 in RR's 1st year and 37-7 in his 3rd. We're not going anywhere as a program. We need a new coach and you'd be an ignorant, close minded fn to think otherwise after today's game,
"There hasn't been ANY improvement."
"you'd be an ignorant, close minded fn"
Definition of "takes one to know one" right here.
And he's improving the team every season
Oh, really? There are three phases of the game: offense, defense, and special teams. Please enlighten me as to how RR has improved this team on defense and special teams, if you don't mind.
1. So I guess Rich Rod was a Michigan Man the day after he was hired?
2. I have no idea what this point is...Carr didn't play at Michigan, and I liked him, ergo, everyone who didn't play at Michigan, I like
3. Since when is going 9-4 at a program like San Diego St. something to brag about? I mean why don't we sign up Bill Stewart, I hear he's going to be available, and he went 9-3 at an AQ school.
lot of michigan men in dayton, ohio. doesn't matter where you are born. currently roundtree and shaw are from dayton. brandon harrison was from dayton.
If Harbaugh doesn't come I will kidnap his baby.
I wonder if there are any big name coaches who will let DB know they are interested if JH decides to coach the 49ers. I think if JH is not hired a few top name coaches out there may be interested in the Michigan job. We could all be surprised by who shows up here if DB has decided to let RR go.
like who? The only one that sticks out is Les Miles off the top of my head.
Mack Brown I don't think will coach after Texas and there's zero reason for him to leave.
I'd rather keep RR than go with Big Game Bob.
Urban Meyer could become the Brett Favre of CFB coaches and TBH I'm not entirely opposed to him coming here.
I honestly can't think of another big name candidate. Maybe Randy Edsall?
Looking at non-CFB guys we have Gruden. Call it retarded but I love him too much on MNF. I listened to him today without Jaws for a bit and he's so much better. But he turned down fun in the sun and a low pressure job at Miami. Why he would come here, I have no idea.
Dungy would be awesome and a local guy but that's never gonna happen.
If DB doesn't have his plan completely mapped out after a month of preparation, then he is just as culpable as RR is for M's poor preparation for yesterday's bowl game. If DB is not 95+% certain right now as to what is going to happen, then he is a failed executive. But I don't think he is.
Because he has ties to Lloyd, so gosh, all his staff was so laughable, because DeBord wasn't great, so they all must have been yuk yuk. But not all coaches have the same rep. If you're saying Harbaugh or Hoke (which, really, is ANYBODY?) then sure Harbaugh has done more. For the same reason, if you really feel like going that way (you meaning Brandon) there's probably not much reason not to stick with Rich another year, see if his track record pre-Michigan can finally show up at Michigan, and if you still want Brady, get him then. He, unlike Harbaugh, will be available. If for some reason you think the situation with Rich is untenable, because of what you've seen behind the scenes, and JH doesn't want to come here, for whatever reason, then he's a real candidate. Would we bet better off trying to get a Patterson, or someone like that? Sure. But as we saw last time, and from many a ND coaching search, writing a big check doesn't mean you automatically steal some other name coach. If that doesn't work, we could do worse than Hoke. The truth is, nobody knows how any of these guys will do, because everyone thought Rich Rod was a knock it out of the park pick, and it's been 3 disastrous years. So who knows?
Randy Edsall should be getting some love IMO.
I see what you're getting at with the way his team is playing tonight, but I can't get past the image of his team getting pasted in the Big House a few months ago.
Randy Edsall and the other UCONN coaches didn't have the benefit of film on Denard 2.0, (they would have probably been better served had they watched film of RR coaching Pat White). Later "good teams" pretty well found a way to at least slow Denard, and make him less effective.
In all honesty, I think the biggest reason this board widely feels that Hoke = DOOM is because Brian said so.
Hoke has a better resume then Moeller or Carr did when they got the job. His trajectory at the jobs he's had is very similar to those of Harbaugh and Rodriguez. Take over a down trodden team, struggle for a year and then start to make serious progress towards upper echelon conference finishes / titles. Hoke has done it twice at FBS schools where Harbaugh and Rodriguez have done it once, but also have success at lower level schools. The thing separating Harbaugh / Rodriguez and Hoke is that the former have done it in a BCS conference.
Are there other "big names" out there that would be better than Hoke? Probably, but to write him off as a ridiculous possibility doesn't really make any sense to me.