A Case For Our Defense

Submitted by jsquigg on

It's late Saturday and starting Monday the content will be more pointed, but while we're still stuck wondering how Michigan will do this year I figure I'll make a case for why I think our defense will do very well (I'm bored waiting for the season to start and have been drinking, so if this sucks, neg at will).

I've been reading a lot of the smart football blog and I like his take on hybrid players in a base defense.  Obviously a lot of Michigan's success relies on "staple" players (aka players who play one position typically) like Will Campbell, but when you look at our defense there are a lot of "hybrid" players.  Beyer, Gordon, Clark, Roh, etc. have all played multiple positions to mixed success.  With Mattison at the helm, I think we can stack up against power teams and I really think we are fast enough to play the spread teams pretty well.  I could be wrong, but discuss.

ckersh74

August 25th, 2012 at 11:19 PM ^

Not exactly rocket science out of me here, but...

I think our defense hinges on the play of our defensive line, especially those that are stepping into the places previously held by Mike Martin and Ryan Van Bergen. If Big Will and Quintin Washington (someone check spelling there, please) can fill in liek we think (and hope) they can, the rest of our defense can fall into place. 

If not, we're going to bleed a bit, plain and simple.

smwilliams

August 25th, 2012 at 11:26 PM ^

I agree and love the irony in that second sentence.

My biggest question is whether Q-Wash (yes, that's all SportsCenter-ish) can hold his own on NT. We're honestly missing a 3-tech because Big Will seems to be more suited for NT with Roh/Black as the DEs.

We shall see come Bama tho.

evenyoubrutus

August 25th, 2012 at 11:32 PM ^

I think our defense will be better than so many are thinking because we, as a fanbase, are so used to such poor defensive coaching that we look at our personnel and think, "theres no way out coaches can make these guys good." I mean, think about the years since '97. Have you ever felt like we had really good coaching on defense until last year? Even in '06 we got torched by OSU and usc. Really it was only in '03 when it seemed like our defense could stop anybody. I think we are a top 10 defense for that reason. And I kind of think that by November we will be talking about our d line as the best unit on the defense. Just a hunch, nothing more.

B-Nut-GoBlue

August 26th, 2012 at 12:07 AM ^

I want what you're having!  I don't mean that I think you're wrong or out of line in thinking that.  I just can't get myself to commit to that notion yet; I want to but my mind (even heart) won't let me....yet.  I agree in your concept of us fans looking at the players and what they've done and thinking what we have is what we have; many of us probably disregard the fact that we have a top D-coordinator and great position coaches to actually get these players to be better and perform to their potential.  Circling back around, I again can't quite get myself to grasp that the potential of this team's defenisive unit as a whole is the caliber of very good or even great.

DonAZ

August 25th, 2012 at 11:35 PM ^

There was a really interesting exchange in the Mattison press conference on Friday.  Mattison was asked if last year he stressed the D-line play so much because his secondary was still maturing; and whether if this year, since the secondary was on better footing, they might pick up some of the strain from the line.

As I watched the press conference it seemed to me Mattison was acknowledging that yes, there was something to that concept.  He seemed to acknowledge that with a young secondary the line play last year was critical to disrupt plays.  Where this year with a more seasoned secondary he has a bit more room to trust his secondary, which relieves the line of having to do it all right out of the gate.

I'm quite certain Mattison was not saying the D-line doesn't have to play well.  But if the comparison is between last year and this, last year's D-line play was really important, whereas this year it's merely really important.

 

Muttley

August 26th, 2012 at 1:17 PM ^

We don't have an athletic Mike Martin to make the plays. 

But Big Will & hopefully Quinton Washington can clog the middle, leaving the LBs to make the plays.  Or the pile.

I'd like Mike Martin back, but that's not an option. We do have a huge # of returning starters/contributors.  It's "just" that the heart of last year's defense is gone.

Zone Left

August 25th, 2012 at 11:43 PM ^

If Michigan can figure out a way to get pressure with the front four, Michigan's defense will be good. If not, they will struggle against good teams. They'll be fine for most of the Big 10 schedule, but Alabama and OSU will eat them alive if they can only get pressure by blitzing. 

There isn't a championship team out there that can't beat up a good offensive line with their front four. The season largely hinges on the interior of the defensive line being able to stand up to our better opponents' interior offensive lines. Denard is almost secondary, in my opinion. If he has a truly special season, Michigan can do anything if the defensive line holds up. If the line can't hold, we'll lose to Alabama and probably drop 2-3 other shootouts.

SysMark

August 26th, 2012 at 1:46 AM ^

Agree on the D-Line, though I think that is pretty much the same in analyzing any team's chances.  If you can stop the run and pass pressure with the front four you are obviously way ahead of the game.

With Denard I disagree that he is secondary, though partly in a negative sense.  Our success against Alabama, and beyond, will hinge on him not committing turnovers, particularly interceptions.  I think Denard will prove to be a formidable weapon vs. Alabama - he just can't give anything back by throwing it away.  Alabama runs a relatively conservative offense and that's what their defense sees in practice - they aren't familiar with defending a QB like Denard - they could have problems.

If our D-Line can at least stand up, and turnovers are minimized, we can beat Alabama.

Bo Nederlander

August 25th, 2012 at 11:48 PM ^

Maybe this is just my bias coming forth to speak the optimism we'd all like to feel and ultimately witness, but I think we are going to surprise most people. Including our own fans. I'm ex-military and specifically an 11b combat veteran having served in Baghdad during the most violent period in the history of both wars (06-07). The reason I bring this up, is that my unit did frequent missions with special ops. One of my old roommates (out of 4 total in service) was 18D. For those of you that don't know military acronyms and MOS titles, he was Special Forces. He was only my roommate until he passed selection and subsequently went onto the Q course. When I heard that the Seniors were going to train with the SEALS, I KNEW they were going to experience something very special. Aside from the physical aspects that they endured, the most important thing they learned..I GUARANTEE it, is how not to quit. No matter what. Shit, even us 11b were taught that (Infantry). They are going to bring something this fall that the fans have seldom seen. Write it down and hold me to it.

Bo Nederlander

August 26th, 2012 at 12:34 AM ^

Although it wasn't (obviously) for them, of the combat variety, you never forget training like that. It's SO much more than physical. People commonly assume sentiments that again, commonly, cross their mind. That kind of training speaks to emotions as well. Emotions stay longer than anything physical, mental, and surface psychology. I guarantee that when and if  things begin to appear bleek, their minds will automatically go back to what that training taught them. I think this team, as a result, is going to be SCARY good. But that's just me. Thank you for the kind words and appreciation.

When I was redeploying, just as a reminder (not a good one), it was the App St game and I got shit on from 155 guys (only 2 others beside myself were Michigan fans) and it seriously RUINED my homecoming. I was gone for 15 months and that was the last week we were in Baghdad. Not to mention, the next game was Oregon when I was staging in Kuwait. To add salt, I had ZERO clue that a douche-bag old buddy fucker that was an old friend, was an App St GRAD! You can't imagine the humiliation endured. The day we landed at Fort Lewis (Washington state), was Sept 11, 2007. That is a 100% true story.

Goblueusmc77

August 26th, 2012 at 2:01 AM ^

Compared to the season befor last alone the d Was a ton different. Although a few big guys were lost they are replaced by guys that have experience. Have had time to adjust to the new system and are newly motivated to play Michigan football. Comming off last years season and sugar bowl victory the whole team in general is hungry. These coaches do a great job motivating the players. This team will surprise the country, starting with alabama this weekend. I am excited for team 133 and the future under this coaching staff. Go Blue!!!!

Perkis-Size Me

August 26th, 2012 at 2:47 AM ^

if theres anyone i trust to come up with the best game plan possible for any scenario its greg mattison. he will have the defense as best prepared as it possibly can be, and the chips will fall where they may.

the defense can be as good as last year. all depends on the development of the front 4. but they've got hoke, montgomery and mattison in their faces all day, every day.

FrankMurphy

August 26th, 2012 at 2:52 AM ^

Personally, I think the D-line will be fine. Keep in mind that they're coached by Hoke personally. Aside from the fact that Hoke is a great D-line coach, it's a huge intangible for the D-linemen to have the head coach as their position coach.  

DonAZ

August 26th, 2012 at 8:47 AM ^

Sincere question on my part -- does Hoke coach the whole D-line or just the NT position?  Jerry Montgomery is listed as the D-line coach, and I thought I read somewhere that Hoke's focus was just on NT.

Your point is valid in either case ... Hoke does not hide the fact he loves the D-line role.

LSAClassOf2000

August 26th, 2012 at 9:47 AM ^

Statistically, the  front four averaged 20 solo tackes and 25 assisted tackles in 2011, as well as 8 TFLs and 4 sacks on average. With what they apparently rolled out at the practic yesterday - the Black-Campbell-Washington-Roh line - I think there is enough talent there to reach that relative level of production, especially as they get more time in. 

As others have pointed out, we have a very good back seven that now has even more time in the system as well, and if they start exceeding last year's productivity (starters in the secondary alone were averaging 4-5 tackles per game - it doesn't take a lot more to create a "no fly zone", if you will), then that definitely mitigates some mistakes that may occur at the  beginning. 

UMgradMSUdad

August 26th, 2012 at 10:11 AM ^

No question that the leaders on defense last year were Martin and RVB, and they led by example. With the injuries going into the Sugar Bowl, lesser men would have faltered. Michigan has the talent atleticism on the D-line, but we don't yet know if this year's team has the leadership skills to be a great defense.

DeepBlue83

August 26th, 2012 at 11:03 AM ^

But I also see a ceiling for how good they can be this year. We have a lot of good to very good players, as you look at the team right now, but no one who really projects as a great player. That may change, of course, but of the guys we have now that could conceivably be drafted next year (Floyd, Kovacs, Roh, Campbell and Demens), none of them projects as any higher than a third round pick. Lacking the kind of elite, game-changing athletes on defense that a team like Alabama had last year, I can see this as a top 20 defense, but not top 10, unless we have a couple guys emerge as real beasts at DT (which I wouldn't count on). I have confidence that Mattison will get the most out of what he has, but there are no miracles...just talent and hard work..and we need a little more of the former before we'll have a really dominant defense.

DeepBlue83

August 26th, 2012 at 4:23 PM ^

below expectations for three seasons now, so I'm not sure how reasonable it is to expect a lot more this season. And it's not as if he's been nagged by injuries his whole career, and is just now getting completely healthy, or that he's been buried on the depth chart behind NFL first rounders. He just doesn't have the technique or the intensity. Going into your senior season, a high motor is something you either have or you don't..it's not something you just flip on like a light switch. He may be decent this year, but he's not going to be an All-American or a first rounder...he's just not.

Edward Khil

August 27th, 2012 at 2:25 AM ^

But I'm crossing my fingers. Campbell might still surprise. He never had to play much until now, with Martin tearing up the middle. And these coaches are as good as it gets. If Michigan wins Saturday, a big reason will be the Interior D-line was competent. And if Campbell plays 80% as sell as MM did last year, he'll be a 1st rounder, because he's a prototypical lineman, body-wise.

turtleboy

August 26th, 2012 at 1:15 PM ^

I'm confident. We were already a top 10 defense last year, and several of the others in that 10 lost more than we did. We all had this discussion last year but exceeded expectations through effort, and top coaching, we're doing it again this year because of our losses up front, we'll do it again next year when Roh, Campbell, Demens, Kovacs, and Floyd are gone, but we're gonna be fine. The team is still improving, and still trending up.

Der Alte

August 26th, 2012 at 5:47 PM ^

If on Saturday M's first defensive snap features a Roh-Washington-Campbell-Black front four, I'll have some concerns.

Last year Roh's season was on-again, off-again, although he did produce more toward the season's end. Washington is a recycled O-lineman. Campbell is a D-lineman whom RichRod tried to turn into an O-lineman, then kind of gave up on. Credit the current staff for what we hope is a successful rehabilitation. Campbell did play well in spurts last year. Black is an undersized, maybe good tackle/end who now has a couple seasons behind him and might have a firmer grasp of his role.

M should have another four or five players who can regularly rotate into those positions. At one point a couple years ago, OSU had ten or eleven guys they rotated on the D-line. But seldom-seen Richard Ash, redshirt Chris Rock, freshman Ondre Pipkins (who will play), and other freshman Matt Godin (who should redshirt) are about it. Brink, Beyer, and Heitzman are available, but Frank Clark might have pilfered himself out of a few games if not out of the season or the team.  

If this D-line is to become productive at all it will need at least a few games to find its legs. Alabama will not give it that opportunity. Until the opponents become a little more beatable or the D-line becomes a little more solid, M's linebackers, safeties, and corners will have to play their best football ever.

B-Nut-GoBlue

August 26th, 2012 at 7:16 PM ^

Pretty much the exact mindset I am in; like literally everything you wrote.  I'm not quite sold as of now.  I'm optomistic heading into next weekend and the commencement of the season, but realistic in that I'm not wearing my maize and blue blinders yet.