Thanks for bringing up something about the team and not RRs future. Just curious, I wonder how his stats compare after he made the transition to OLB. I think this was the correct move and I think Cam has the potential to be a good LB next year while playing next to Demens a whole season. Under a new system, Cam could be really effective and blossom into an All-Conference type.
A case for Cam Gordon
statistics are close to irrelevant here. poor defense = more opportunity for tackles.
but i too am excited about his potential
Regardless of the coach next year heres my opinion. The 6 true freshman that played considerablly this year will be much stronger and have better fundamentals. Throw in the injured players including TWolf and Mike Jones... Who? and we got a better than decent defense. The only thing that is stopping the offense from being dominant is a running back threat and D. Hart will certaily bring that.
Come on guys this is Michigan... Believe!
Don't forget that JT is coming back, who I think might make a slightly below average (which would be a step up from this years secondary) to a slightly above average 2nd corner. Throw in the 3 true freshman this year with a year experience and a spring practice and another fall camp, the secondary might not be too shabby next year.
As blasphemous as it might be to say this, I point out the fact that sparty's horrendous secondary from 2009, produced FOUR, count them, FOUR All Big Ten Selections for 2010. It not only CAN happen, it HAS happened. As for the case with Cam, I like it, and the numbers will get better when the defense is more consistent in carrying out responsiblities and funneling specific plays to specific players to button down and bottle up! I for one, look forward to what the D will do in the coming year!! Go Blue!
I actually see more potential out of the freshmen that played than out of JT Floyd. Don't get me wrong, It'll be nice to have a couple upperclassmen in the mix, but I just have a feeling that JT's days as a starter are over barring injury (knock on wood).
I also think that it's really interesting to see Jonas Mouton blow away Greg Jones statistically this year.
It is much more intresting/puzzling considering if you ask most Spartan fans they act like he is all 11 defenders.
That's because a lot of State fans can only name 1 player on the defense.
A small part of that may be because our defense BLOWS ASS. If you are on the field for twice as long you are going to have many more opportunites to make plays. I haven't heard anyone (credible) claim Mouton is in the same conversation as Jones
That's probably because teams are purposely gameplanning to avoid situations where he is involved in the play, hence the lack of production this year
Jones didn't even show up in the top 100 for sacks or TFLs.
If you were correct in your logic Mouton would be a very high draft pick
that I initially read this as "A case for Cam Cameron"....i proceeded to vomit...
then I teared up when I realized Cam Cameron would probably be a step up from Brady Hoke, who managed to get his own thread today.
you have a disdain for stats or not? Regardless I hope you are right. I do think he has major potential. He has laid some nice hits. With a little coaching and Barwis Bataan Death March Training, he is going to be a beast.
I think Cam has the highest upsides of any of the freshmen out there on defense (provided he stays at OLB). He's got prototypical size, is a very nasty hitter, and seems to be improving as the season goes on. The future is definitely bright for this kid.
I wouldn't count out Carvin or Avery. Both played well by the end of the regular season (especially Avery considering how he played at the beginning and played QB in high school)
reminds me of crable a little bit. but cam is another example of our clueless D coaches. he played much better near the line of scrimmage vs the deep safety. roh is another example. it seemed obvious from the start that these guys weren't placed in a position to maximize their talents, yet it took half the season to move them to their proper position. this is the most disturbing fact, imo.
So how fast should a coach realize where a true freshman is best suited to play in a Big Ten defense?
Well, I'm not a Big Ten coach...
But it took me looking at their recruiting videos to figure out that Cam Gordon should be a linebacker (not a WR, not a DB) and Craig Roh should be a weakside DE (not a LB). And I'm not the only one who realized that.
So...yeah...there have been some shortcomings in personnel deployment.
Not only did Magnus realize it but the recruiting sites during Cam Gordon and Craig Roh's junior years in high school were saying Gordon was best at OLB and Roh at WDE. The only reason Gordon started at WR was he was demanding it. Safety was only because Vinopal wasn't ready and the injuries, transfers. Roh at LB was only because he was too small to play DE in a 3 man front and our defensive coordinator didn't think we had enough depth on the defensive line to play a 4 man front.
Basically, I think the coaches knew where the players would be ideally but felt they couldn't put them there because of depth and talent issues at other positions.
Keep in mind, it took starting Vinopal to move Cam to LB and Roh to DE. It very well could have taken half a season to be comfortable putting Vinopal back there. Not justifying the coaches capability at all. There is still the whole Ezeh vs. Demens issue, etc., etc., etc. But often times there are other factors behind the scenes that influence what is happening.
Cam has gotten a bad rap as far as his performance. I do feel the switch to spur was a good one because he was lost a time at safety. I feel he will grown into the spur position well.
p.s. i do hope the defensive staff is reviewed by DB and replaced and if that happens i can see Cam growing into a Solid OLB in a 34 or 43 scheme
He will be a stud next year just like Kovacs was this season.
Statistically, you can probably compare them, yes. But Kovacs lacks the requisite athleticism to be truly elite at his position, that's not a problem I see Gordon having.
Kovacs a stud? I know that our walk-on sophomore was one of the better players on our defense this year, but that by no means makes him a stud. It's pretty sad when we consider Kovacs a stud this year, compared to Michigan defenses of the past (say, before RR era) where he probably wouldn't have seen the field!
Mrs Kovacs when did you first start following MGoBlog?
I love Cam and his potential at LB, but he needs to seriously work on his tackling (which, of course, could be said about everyone on our D except Martin and Demens). He too consistently went for the big hit as opposed to actually wrapping up the tackle, leading to unnecessary big plays.
Just remember that he's only a RS Freshmen. Were he to have played for us in the early 2000s (or, well, any other time in our D's history, for that matter) he wouldn't be seeing the field for another two or so years. He has areas he needs to work on, but the potential he flashed this year is undeniable.
Those fundamentals will be taught. There is so much potential talent on this defense that is overshadowed by youth. These things will be corrected with maturity and proper coaching.
I understand many fundamentals can be taught (tackling in space, ball security, etc). Wrapping up seems like a pretty basic thing to me though. Like one of those things the coaches should be able to say "Hey big lug, wrap up when you tackle or you'll ride the pine". I really don't understand why wrapping up is something that has to be "taught".
It is something that has to be retaught. A year ago these guys were lowering the boom on high school kids and they went down every time. Now they are playing against men 4 years older and that shit no longer works. It takes a little while to get that through their heads and at times they revert back to old habits.
Many case in points could be lifted up in support of this assertion, but just a look at "Boo" Herron's performance this last week: when he was bottled up, he was being hit and wrapped up by some of our larger and more experienced players, but once he broke through to the secondary, he was much more confident with his runs...and it was easy to see on television why...he knew he only needed to break arm tackles which, unfortunately, he did with relative easy.
Agreed. One thing to think about though is experience and strength. I played safety, and as a freshman (in high school) I missed tackles because I wasn't strong enough to wrap up the much stronger seniors, so I tried to hit them as hard as I could and wrap up at the same time. Admittedly, my coaches weren't much help (we were 0-6-4, with three of the ties scoreless ones, and they were all fired at the end of the season), but I wonder if that's why some of the secondary players miss tackles.
Of course, I also played long before SC made crushing people a way to get on TV.
Gordon should obviously get stronger in the coming years, but I don't think strength is the problem. He's pretty good sized at 6'3" and 207 lbs. When he can't bring down an Indiana wide receiver, then I think it's all about technique.
i do think kovacs might make a solid OLB is he put on some lbs. Kovacs really impressed me this season.
I could be wrong, but I don't really think Kovacs has the frame to add any weight
i think he gains at least 10 lbs per year just naturally. he's 6' tall (listed anyway). he ought to be able to get to 220.
The unit and scheme are very important. If they continue to play without any rhyme or reason than they will never mature or develop (Ezeh). If the next coach brings in solid fundamentals, we will see the development match the potential. But, the chain is as strong as the weakest link, great players go unnoticed because of poor defenses. If Brandon Graham played on a top 25 defense he would of been a 1st tm AA and possibly and award winner.
example with all our freshman/sophomore players and compare them to B10 best at other schools and what you will see is that our guys are very good/ but very young. This experience for all of them will payoff big time next year and fir sure in 2012 when we are in the top 5 with a senior dominated team.
S-o-o-o-o-o, are you gonna reseach & post that for us? ;-)
but do you think he could play OLB in our scheme? Im pretty sure the staff was high on Mike Jones before he broke his leg and he is listed as 6-2 208lb vs Jordan at 6ft 195lbs
Hard to say who will play what position next year because of the log jam at that tweener position. Could be Jones, Robinson, or either of the Gordon's. I do believe that he will be the favorite going into spring training, at whatever position he is playing. Of course this is also dependent on the defense that they deploy. I am of the opinion that they would llike to do a 4-2-5, just not enough dline personnel to pull it off. And it also depends on how much weight he gains.If he gains 10 lbs he probably stays put in a 3-3-5, but if gains 15 or more all bets are off, and probably mike joneses starting job. So to sum up, who knows what will be next year.
i'm hoping for this too. except, i think we have the most depth at Dline than anywhere else. Roh and Black at DE. Martin and VanBergen at DT. Wilkins/Paskorz backup at DE. QWash/Ash/Talbott backup at DT.
i'm more worried about depth for true experienced LBs.
I did not exclude Kovacs. I just chose to not use him because the numbers would have been to lopsided in his favor. Also Gordon has been deemed a goat many times. I just thought it would be nice to illustrate the potential that is there. I completely believe that the young guys that weathered this storm of a season, will be the core of a dominant defense in the future. We may not be able to implement the no fly zone next year. I would however like to see a strategic missile defense sheild.
Cam Gordon is a good player. I am extremely happy he's no longer playing FS, though, and now playing a more natural OLB position.
Couldn't you look at total tackles and argue that Kovacs is going number 1 overall based on the last two years or that Tate Forcier is going to be a first round pick?
I'm not knocking either guy, but 74% of statisticians say raw numbers can be easily manipulated to serve whatever purpose you want them to serve.
86.23% of all statistics are just made up on the spot.
If Kovacs could mange to put on 30 LBS before graduation, dollars to donuts would have him as a lock for the first round pick, Taterbug....not so much, his interception to touchdown ratio these last couple years has been brutal. Though im sure he'll clean that up.
Check that out. Forcier had a better Freshman season than Montana's Senior year at ND, they're about the same size, have similar arm strength, and have "moxie."
You can find numbers to back up whatever truth you want if you just look a little bit.
Also, Kovacs isn't going anywhere. He's got none of the measurables the NFL wants.
I love Kovacs and appreciate the work he puts in. The guy works his ass off every game and gives 100% one each play. Let's be serious though, he is not going to the NFL. I don't even think he could play in the CFL.
I look for two of the underclassmen on D this year to make a decent leap forward. Possiblities include Avery, Carvin, and T. Gordon but Cam will do just fine as well. And having T-Wolf back is really valuable. Our secondary took a major major dive with D. Warren's departure and T-Wolf going down with the injury.
Imagine those two in the secondary this year.
Demens is a ball player. Hell if he would have made it in the line-up sooner we may have pulled another game in. No knock on any of the current & graduating players. Love'em all. I hope they all become outstanding on and off the field.
if the staff deployed the 4-2-5! I was hoping we would see that this season. I think GERG likes the 34 alot tho.
If Gordon became half the player Jones is, then everyone would be ecstatic. I think he will be a good player provided he never plays another down of FS, and hopefully the early playing time will pay off. I do wonder, though, how he will be utilized under the new defensive coordinator, presuming GERG is gone next year. He's a decent-size OLB, but his troubles tackling make me think the new DC would be a little concerned.
I don't think he was a bad tackler this year. The problem was that he was playing FS, putting him in space against guys who were faster and more athletic than him. He came up to make kill shots and either whiffed or didn't wrap up. From the LB position, which is closer to the line of scrimmage, he'll likely go for the kill shot less often and be more inclined to wrap up.
I totally agree IF his mentality truly does shift from the big hit to the sure tackle. I figure he will, but after the past few years I'm not going to bank on anything with this defense.
No doubt that if Cam sticks at OLB, he'll be a very good football player. I think he'll be the best LB we've had since maybe David Harris. He's not a big 245 lbs monster, but neither are Greg Jones or Brian Rolle, and I would love to have one of those guys on our team.
but remember the upside Obi Ezeh had? His freshman year he had 67 tackles and 2 sacks, a forced fumble, and a pick, and everyone thought he was going to be the next big thing. It's to early with these kids to know. Sure, he had a DECENT freshman season and he does have upside, but don't get to caught up in the kid. He didn't flash anything super special and while he very well may turn out to be a stud in the future, it is wayyy to early to jump on this kid's bandwagon.
It's never too early to jump on a kid's bandwagon.
This sentiment is why we have YouTube vidoes of blue chip 2nd graders.
Or that 6-year old Sevilla kid:
is an exception rather than the rule. most guys continue to improve throughout their career. unless of course you played basketball under tommy amaker.
Your comment goes toward exactly what the point of the post is. It's too early, for all the people saying there is no talent on this D. Or that they couldn't play for, or start anywhere else. Codemning or anointing a player for their freshmen is follie. I see a lot of good play in Cam. He is just raw, as a freshmen is supposed to be. Will he be the next Sam Sword/ Ian gold. Or will he be the next Over Easy? too early to tell. However according to the stats, he right on pace to be great. Do you now understand why i have such disdain for stats?
Oh wait, what? Sorry, wrong thread.
I thought this was a decent first year of action for Cam. Minus the blatant exception (the Rudolph play), I thought he played the pass pretty well this year. The run, on the other hand, was a disaster. However, I expect both his tackling and aggressiveness against the run to improve with confidence and more practice time.