It seems pretty clear the coaches really like carvin johnson. Does anyone else see him swapping positions with cam gordon after the season? I think carvin is a better fit at deep safety than spur and visa versa with cam. I think spur was the easiest way for him to see the field as a freshman and deep safety is a complicated position to walk into from fall camp for a true freshman. Again, I think Cam is a better fit at spur or OLB (if he can add weight). Discuss...
carvin johnson and deep safety question
The bigger issue to me is that a lack of competent linebacker play has forced us to keep 8 in the box against teams that can run the ball (and still getting gashed on occassion). I don't think Gordon is playing out of position as much as he is being forced to take on too much responsibility playing single high so much (and having the normal struggles you would expect from a freshman who has never played the position before in his life).
...have him grow dreads and call him Louis Delmas.
I guy can dream, can't he?
I really wouldn't mind seeing this guy get a chance to at least rotate in sometimes. Yes I know he gets a chance to prove himself in practice and the coaches are the ones qualified to make these decisions, but still it can't be that much worse.
being that demens is only now getting significant playing time, im not putting too much faith in the defensive coaches ability to recognize talent. not saying vinopal is the answer, but its very possible that he is being overlooked
You do realize Demens and Fitzgerald and Leach and Brandon Smith all got a shot to play last year ahead of Obi and Mouton. The results were not any better. Demens is a freaking sophomore (David Harris was basically a crap player until his senior year) who is just now ready to contribute. You are dumb, the coaches are not.
Anyone claiming the "RichRod can do no wrong" crowd is the problem on this board apparently doesn't realize how much stupid shit people say in their attempts to criticize the guy.
Woohoo! We've reached stage 3! (In case it is unclear, I agree with you)
be a bigger punchline here
so your saying that this week demens was ready to play, but last week he wasnt? thank god the coaches were looking closely, otherwise they might have played him a week too soon and he would have been a complete liability.
Hopefully you are not negged mercilessly for saying what everyone else is thinking. Deep safety is as much about position and smarts as it is speed and considering Carvin played safety in high school he would be a great option. I also love Cam and think he would wreck shit at either the spur or in Mouton's spot when he graduates.
I think he should start seeing more time.
I find it funny though, he definitely isn't 5'11" like that video says....
He has short legs. Those work in high school but not in college.
I agree that his physical attributes are not ideal, but at this point aren't we looking for serviceable? (that is not to say that I think Vinopal's ceiling is 'serviceable') Just like Tate makes up for good but not great arm strength with accuracy, Vinopal might be able to make up for short legs with good instincts and technique, at least enough to avoid being a liability.
Ray made a hell of a play on the interception he made against BGSU, they gave Demens a chance and that panned out well. Its not like we're giving up a lot of experience back there. Ray gets my vote
All those schools that Vinopal played against should fire their DCs. and OCs.
Yes. I think these guys swapping spots is a natural fit, but based on the reasons you mentioned wasn't feasible this year. That switch could make for a major upgrade come 2011.
As fans we can sit around and talk about switching players positions all day without any consequences. The risk of position switches during the season might be too much of a risk for the coaches. I'm hoping we see some different looks in the off season.
I definitely wouldn't expect or suggest a move until the offseason.
I am happy that Cam and Carvin are both finding the field this year, but we need speed at the safety positions. It is much easier to make up for a blown assignment if you have the speed to make up lost ground, and i am just not convinced that Cam has that kind of speed. However, i do think that Cam is only going to get better and that his skill set will definitely find him on the field (possibly Spur or stay at safety). And we also need to remember that we are dealing with a lot of true freshman and first year players, I just hope that the jump from freshman to sophomore year for these players is a big jump, because if our D can begin to make plays...OOOOOH BABY!!!
He doesn't seem to have the speed to recover from a misstep or to close on an open receiver. Does Carvin have much better speed?
Cam and Carvin are both too slow to play deep safety.
I'm not saying Vinopal is the answer.
But it's a fact that he is faster than either of those guys.
Maybe put Troy at deep safety next year if we can find another competent CB in the last 5 games?
Where are we going to find this mythical competent CB? We've seen everyone we got.
I actually agree with you on Troy. If we feel with development, one of the current freshmen can step in and be competent at CB next year, maybe Troy is the answer at FS. All I really want is to give Troy the ability to concentrate on one position so that we have at least significantly upgrade one spot in the secondary. I can see valid arguments for either FS or CB. I think the only reason CB is a natural fit is that Rogers is graduating and there's no guarantee that a sophomore CB who hasn't seen a ton of action will be a huge improvement.
you need speed at deep safety and I do hope that Woolfolk can be our starting Deep Safety next year. Our defense played the best last year when Woolfolk was at safety.
However, good instincts, taking good angles, and being able to position yourself at the right spot on the field can go a long way to make up for a lack of top notch speed. I would of course rather have a Safety with all of the above.
But it's a fact that he is faster than either of those guys.
It is? What is this based on, his reported HS 40 time?
Scout was saying that Carvin was in the two deep at both deep safety and spur at the end of August before the season started. I don't know how true it was but he ended up starting at Spur so they may not have been completely wrong about Carvin being in the two deep at deep safety as well.
to play safety? Do we really know?
He was recruited as a safety, right? Cam at least is a position switch, so it makes sense. I still think he is ultimately going to move to LB.
I would like to see Carvin at safety...we shall see.
I don't think that we should switch Cam around twice in two years. He might as well be a freshman again, except with only two years of eligability. As Biakabatuka 21 said above the fundamentals that Cam will have learned over a full year of playing should make up for his lack of top-end speed. He's fast enough. We've all seen him miss big plays by a step or two, and I think that will get corrected by better positioning.initial steps/_____<----other fundamental here. I would like to see Woolfolk at CB so that our CBs get the upgrades they need, which will help Gordon more than I believe Woolfolk at FS would help our CBs. I could be wrong here, but I see an at least average secondary next year with Woolfolk and JT as our CBs. (I only need an average D to be happy. Our O should be amazing next year.)
I would like to see Woolfolk at CB so that our CBs get the upgrades they need, which will help Gordon more than I believe Woolfolk at FS would help our CBs.
We tried this last year from week 6 on. With Warren and Woolfolk, we were in good shape at CB. But at safety we were horrendous, and the D as a whole got much worse. Safeties do much more to help out corners in coverage than vice versa. The FS is the last line of defense. If he's not fast enough to get over and make plays, you're in trouble.
i still have high hopes that cam will develop into a slower, but sound and heavy-hitting safety
I have high hopes that all the young guys playing in the secondary will be leaps and bounds better next year when they ALL return for another year at the same positions. Stronger, wiser, and more comfortable with both the system and each other as a unit. This year will pay dividends and then next year we can be building depth rather than trying to hold the D together with spit and paperclips!