Carr allegedly advised 2008 commit to flip to Iowa

Rich may have gotten a raw deal with certain things...cough...Free Press...cough....and not with other things (coach not winning enough games and getting fired isn't a raw deal, it's the business). We don't now for a fact Rich couldn't have been a good fit here.  We don't know when and how Lloyd supported him (did he recommend him for the job? didn't he?).  Or whoat level constitutes lack thereof.  We can guess there wasn't full support...just like we can guess that some of the things Rich is alleged to do didn't really elicit a lot of supporful feelings. 

The only thing that the OP put out there that was true was his last sentence...because they're his feelings. And that's what most of this stuff is about, just doing the same blanket thing they're accusing others of.  Didn't like Carr...most likely because they didn't win the amount of games he thought they should (re: all of them). Complained regularly to friends, co-workers, on the radio.  Got his wish when he left.  Found out things could get a lot worse. But no, couldn't have been wrong about Carr all that time....or how much better things would be with some young innovator!  So all the problems of the next three years...yeah, must have been someone else's fault!  In fact, it was STILL Carr's fault...not any of the coaches who were, you know, coaching the games and stuff. My perceptions and expectations were always right and anything that shows I might have been in error..well, it a conspiracy dagnabbit.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good mudslinging thread.

That's because Brian didn't like him, and a lot of people take their lead from him.  Most other sites were pro-Hoke from the outset.  Personally, he won me over with the initial press conference.

You are completely misrepresenting what I said.  What I meant was that many of us now believe, with the benefit of hindsight, that he was not the right guy for the job.  When he was here, I cheered for him to succeed.  It was brutal watching us go 15-22 those years, and when he was fired, I agreed with it.  But I didn't want him to fail.  I would have loved to have seen him succeed.

Anyhow, I'm still trying to understand how Rodriguez would have become a better defensive coach if he just had more "support" from Carr.   Unless Carr hypnotized him into hiring GERG and then making him run the 3-3-5, I don't see how the two are connected.

Your assessment of his coaching is a perfectly valid opinion.  You're calling him out for being grumpy with reporters though??  Have you heard the some of the questions and repeat questions and rephrased rehashed questions they ask?  There's a reason there are so many blowups by coaches in press conferences.  If I was a coach I would probably intentionally give them the shortest answers possible and if they asked me the same question someone already asked I'd point to the other guy and say "ask him."  

I think Carr had his weaknesses as a coach (specifically his generally risk-averse tendencies)  but I don't think it's fair to chide him for not being in national-championship contention on a regular basis.  Let's not forget that he won us our only national title in the past 60 years.  And really, given what's transpired recently, I don't think we should turn up our noses at the fact that he had 13 winning seasons in 13 years.  

Also, the idea that Bo was stodgy and unwilling to adapt with the times does not jibe with the evidence.  Compare the offenses we ran with Dennis Franklin and Rich Leach with what we ran with Harbaugh.  

I'm pretty sure VDog here is a Spartan troll, so yeah makes sense he would suggest Dantonio

For posterity.

Edit: Too late you already made the edit.

Eloquent.  Thanks for your thoughtful contribution.