Carr allegedly advised 2008 commit to flip to Iowa

Who cares! It wouldn't have even mattered. Replace Sheridan/Threet with Weinke and you have the same result. Pocket passers running the ball with Navarre like mobility. Now kindly Get OFF my Lawn!

We don't need any more of this stuff now.  We're on the verge of a huge game and a new season - let it go.

Lloyd Carr looks out for the kids first. This kid was a better fit at Iowa since they run a pro offense. Besides Rodriguez isn't exactly a coach I'd want one of my kids to play for. His former players rarely speak positive about him. I think he's a selfish asshole.

Just think, he could have advised him to go to Iowa and play running back.   Gasp!

And the "If Carr had clearly reccomended RR for the Michigan job and was the first person toe contact him, why didn't he support him?" Lets go back into the text of the obviously biased Jon U Bacon himself.

How were Lloyds assistants and staffers dealt with again?? Sitting in a hallway for hours on end awaiting their appointment to beg for a job that the new guy has already made it clear you're not going to get??

Did we miss reading this crucial part of the book? Does anyone not see that this is the moment when the Carr/RR relationship soured? You have more than a couple dozen people who have been a part of your program for years, they have become more than assistants/coordinators/trainers etc. to you, they are like family. When the new guy handles them as poorly as RR did the seeds of discontent were sewn. Every one of those Carr people, when they ran into Lloyd about town, had nothing but hatred for the way they were treated and ol Lloyd got to relive it with them over and over.

Ask yourself how Lloyd would have treated the outgoing staff if he was the new guy?? After all having met the man myself and knowing a couple guys who played under him the one thing that is most often refrained about Lloyd is the word "class". Something the rube from the former Hatfield territory knew to little about.

Bitch about Debord, bitch about undeachieving on the field with talent to do better, bitch about his ultra conservative playcalling and I've got no beef. However to assign such petty adjectives as "self centered, egotistical, crabby, jealous etc." to the man you need to show me where, in our 20+ years of having him a part of the Michigan program and having forged relationships with countless hundreds of kids, he has established a reputation for any of these adjectives? I just don't see it.

Conversely, what reputation had RR forged for himself in WV?? In a trial the chorus of character witnesses for Lloyd would be around the block, with very few that I know of who would testify to the contrary. I don't think it would take long to find somebody anxious to sing about how RR screwed them over on a real estate deal or whatever.

You are what you spend 20 years being, not what some outsider can twist one incident into making you appear to be.

I don't get why people are butthurt over this. I'm sure Rodriguez shed no tears.

he was right. Iowa was a better fit for Wienke. If a HS kid asks that kind of question under that circumstance, Carr probably should have defferred any response. But, once he chose to respond, there was only one appropriate answer.

200th post!

Was no better than our other options... Done with this story.

I don't care about this era anymore. I think it would be better if we all just put it into the past.

I'm done commenting on this.

11-2 and fresh off a BCS bowl win and shit like this is being discussed as if it is relevant to today.

It amazes be that the "die hard" ("die hard" is quite the understated term in this case) Rich Rod fans' only complaint about Carr is that he is personally responsible for RR's failure because he "allegedly" decided to let his recruits transfer.   (No I didn't forget the arguement that the AD's office, former player, and the rest of the United States of America we also the Reason for RR failure.)  Somehow this delusion extends to making Carr out to be a bad guy.  But as many players and local AA fans that are close to the program have testified, Lloyd was a man of integrity and "players" coach...just like Bo, Mo, and Hoke.

Even if he did approve the transfers and advise a QB to go elsewhere we don't know why.  Three and out never inverviewed him.  Know one can really say for sure.  But many, knowing the man, know that he did it for his players.  He put the kids first.  Am I the only one who's first response (when reading about Carr's recommending Iowa to a Pro QB and allowing his recruits to transfer) is that this was the highest integrity and most honorable thing to do.  

RR could still recruit them.  He had a great record coming in.  If he wanted the kids, if they fit the new offense, and if the kids felt a personal fit they could have all stayed.  To believe otherwise you have to believe that Lloyd was a bitter old man, wanted RR to fail, didn't care that Michigan might go through some tough years.  But that would be just as delusional as blaming Carr for RR's failure.

The only other thing we don't know if what happened in the meeting between RR and Lloyd that "some believe" made him change his mind about trusting RR with his.  And clearly, Lloyd isn't going to tell why he changed his mind about RR.

Lloyd Carr and I cried watching the men in maize and blue carrying him off the field after beating the Gators in a game way closer than the real score told. Now Lloys is my homeboy no question and can never do wrong in my mind or eyes. And for all the so called bad things he did for Rich and the incoming recruits well damnit he had the right to do that. One last thing I have also heard Mr. Lloyd Carr tried retiring a few years before like 3 or 5 in that range because he had an illness or just found he he was ill, not life threatning but I think Parkinsons ( dont kill me if that part is wrong. He was told he was not aloud and they begged him to stay cause he was the face of the University of Michigan and there was not a coach in waiting or an ex- michigan ready. So if that is true and he did stay 5 more years I am pretty sure he can do what he wants end of story. So basically the guy did some things Bo couldnt do and never did in 8 less years as a coach with stiffer competition and less scholarships, Bo could get all the players just to keep them from other teams. I also kinda feel us U of M fans are spoiled and 9 or 10 win season all day and night, top5 recruiting classes regularly and Big Ten Titles and BCS games every other year, and most wanted him out and thank God for Hoke cause he is savin g all of us from the old saying it isn't always greener on the other side.

Craig James also killed five hookers...

Allegedly. 

It's in the past.  Can we please stop talking about what Carr allegedly did or didn't do during the RR years?

... A train to Bolivia.



Srsly.



Actually, can I get an update on who RR is recruiting? Because I don't give a flip about that either.

If you were the parent of that kid and your son's career was going to be ruined because of a change is system, wouldn't you want Carr, the coach who recruited him, to tell him the truth? 

Suppose Carr comes back to coach. Are you going to take this against him and not let your kid play for him?  I am more inclined to have my son play for him.

sounds like lloyd carr was being honest with this particular student athlete. 

i'm ok with that.

My impression of this thread:

I do not know enough information to pass judgment. It is an interesting detail.

So what's the over/under on total posts for this thread by noon tomorrow?

I say 350.

I remember when Carr retired and the search was hot and heavy and I heard the name 'Hoke'. I rolled my eyes. So I lack any credibility to render an opinion at this or any other time when it comes to this topic.

Thank You

The mid and late 90s were some of the best defenses. I think the pressure of winning put Carr under stress later in his coaching career but overall he was a great HC.

I know Carr did not want Miles to get the HC job! This may be the reason he jumped at RR. He may have taken the firing of his staff too personally. The new HC gets to pick his staff. Unfortunately, RR did not manage to fit his assistant coaches on defense. I was surprised Casteel did not follow him to Michigan.

RR tried but I think he went too quick to the spread without spread offensive players. Then the defense fell apart on him due to poor coaching IMO! Hoke and his OC were smart enough to incorporate enough of the spread to have a successful offense. Plus Greg was a great pickup and was a much better coach than anyone RR could get.

I was an RR supporter and wanted to give him 4 years to turn the football program around, but during the '09 and '10 season, seeing how the defense never jelled, finally convinced me that RR was not the complete HC for Michigan.

I'm glad we have coach Hoke! Given the tough schedule and a slight lack of depth in some areas, I will not get too upset if we lose 4 or 5 games this season. Though, I'm predicting we'll go 9-3 and win the B1G!

it took about 3 years on Nebraska fan boards for the wounds to heal and everybody moved on rehashing Bill Callahan. So you're only looking at about 2013 for this sort of discussion to end.