with the OP. I'm just glad he stopped posting about PSU.
Carr allegedly advised 2008 commit to flip to Iowa
agreed.. had DR not been here and UM had gone 6-6 or 7-5, would we be saying that BH was a great fit. On the other hand, had RR gone 11-2. People would be saying he was great fit. Lets be real with each other. WE LOVE A WINNER.. PERIOD! The question will be if BH goes 7-5 (Very possible) this year with a senior lead team, which RR never got, will people still be as excited for him. Same thing happened to LC. When he was beating OSU every year, he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, he lost like 3 years in a row and people wanted his head. Everyone one wanted an offense that was more exciting and put numbers on the board. In comes RR. Two losing seasons, and everybody wants to go back to the same offense that was run with LC. As a fan base, we are satisfied with losing 2 games every year. As an alum and a fan, I am not satisfied with that. I want NC!! not B1G or legends divisions, I want NC! I was willing to have a few disappointing years in order to get there. Had they been willing shell out the money for a defensive coordinator during RR time as they did with BH, I guarantee the defense would be better. I think we will be back in the same old 9-3, 10-2 from now on, which is fine by most standards, just not mine.
It amazes be that the "die hard" ("die hard" is quite the understated term in this case) Rich Rod fans' only complaint about Carr is that he is personally responsible for RR's failure because he "allegedly" decided to let his recruits transfer. (No I didn't forget the arguement that the AD's office, former player, and the rest of the United States of America we also the Reason for RR failure.) Somehow this delusion extends to making Carr out to be a bad guy. But as many players and local AA fans that are close to the program have testified, Lloyd was a man of integrity and "players" coach...just like Bo, Mo, and Hoke.
Even if he did approve the transfers and advise a QB to go elsewhere we don't know why. Three and out never inverviewed him. Know one can really say for sure. But many, knowing the man, know that he did it for his players. He put the kids first. Am I the only one who's first response (when reading about Carr's recommending Iowa to a Pro QB and allowing his recruits to transfer) is that this was the highest integrity and most honorable thing to do.
RR could still recruit them. He had a great record coming in. If he wanted the kids, if they fit the new offense, and if the kids felt a personal fit they could have all stayed. To believe otherwise you have to believe that Lloyd was a bitter old man, wanted RR to fail, didn't care that Michigan might go through some tough years. But that would be just as delusional as blaming Carr for RR's failure.
The only other thing we don't know if what happened in the meeting between RR and Lloyd that "some believe" made him change his mind about trusting RR with his. And clearly, Lloyd isn't going to tell why he changed his mind about RR.
simply disgusted with what he did.
he would have had Mallet guy turned out pretty good against better D's than the Big Ten, Adrian Arrington for a senior year since he owed everything to Lloyd for letting him back on the team, Mario Manningham who unless I am completely lost today had 1 year left. Plus the other guys who left cause the system was not for them or whatever reasons. So yeah blame it on Bill Martin who had no one on the roster to fit the new scheme waited 8 years if felt like to replace a guy who we all knew stayed for Hart, Henne, and Long and all the other seniors. Lloyd did not like Rich Rod cause he hated Miles and Miles choice after turning us down was none other than Richie Rod.
Lloyd Carr and I cried watching the men in maize and blue carrying him off the field after beating the Gators in a game way closer than the real score told. Now Lloys is my homeboy no question and can never do wrong in my mind or eyes. And for all the so called bad things he did for Rich and the incoming recruits well damnit he had the right to do that. One last thing I have also heard Mr. Lloyd Carr tried retiring a few years before like 3 or 5 in that range because he had an illness or just found he he was ill, not life threatning but I think Parkinsons ( dont kill me if that part is wrong. He was told he was not aloud and they begged him to stay cause he was the face of the University of Michigan and there was not a coach in waiting or an ex- michigan ready. So if that is true and he did stay 5 more years I am pretty sure he can do what he wants end of story. So basically the guy did some things Bo couldnt do and never did in 8 less years as a coach with stiffer competition and less scholarships, Bo could get all the players just to keep them from other teams. I also kinda feel us U of M fans are spoiled and 9 or 10 win season all day and night, top5 recruiting classes regularly and Big Ten Titles and BCS games every other year, and most wanted him out and thank God for Hoke cause he is savin g all of us from the old saying it isn't always greener on the other side.
First, Hoke owe a lot of his success in his first season to the fact that Denard stayed.
Let's get some facts straight.
1. The vast majority of the fans got very tired of Carr towards the end of his career, because his ability to beat Tressel.
2. The horror, the horror, the horror
3. RR was abolutely a star at the time he was hired, who was offerred the Alabama job as well.
4. Carr didn't give RR any support from the moment RR was hired, and offerred to sign off transfer forms before RR was able to meet the team.
5. RR is responsible for his own demise at M but he brought in majority of the key offensive players on the current team, including, Denard, if not the most popular player in M history, is very close to be the most popular player in M history.
6. When RR exited, he could have done what Carr has done, advised some of his players and recruits, especially, say Denard and Gardner to transfer, for the exactly the same reason that Carr argued, bad fit to a pro-style offense. RR didn't not do it even he was no longer affiliated with the university and even he exited not on a good term. RR is a classy guy that Carr is not.
Craig James also killed five hookers...
It's in the past. Can we please stop talking about what Carr allegedly did or didn't do during the RR years?
... A train to Bolivia.
Actually, can I get an update on who RR is recruiting? Because I don't give a flip about that either.
Thankfully David Brandon came to his senses and shitcanned Lloyd's ass right out of that fake ass job Bill Martin gave him.
If you were the parent of that kid and your son's career was going to be ruined because of a change is system, wouldn't you want Carr, the coach who recruited him, to tell him the truth?
Suppose Carr comes back to coach. Are you going to take this against him and not let your kid play for him? I am more inclined to have my son play for him.
sounds like lloyd carr was being honest with this particular student athlete.
i'm ok with that.
My impression of this thread:
I do not know enough information to pass judgment. It is an interesting detail.
So what's the over/under on total posts for this thread by noon tomorrow?
I say 350.
Under, the ritual combat has been performed many times and there are fewer angles to explore.
I remember when Carr retired and the search was hot and heavy and I heard the name 'Hoke'. I rolled my eyes. So I lack any credibility to render an opinion at this or any other time when it comes to this topic.
The mid and late 90s were some of the best defenses. I think the pressure of winning put Carr under stress later in his coaching career but overall he was a great HC.
I know Carr did not want Miles to get the HC job! This may be the reason he jumped at RR. He may have taken the firing of his staff too personally. The new HC gets to pick his staff. Unfortunately, RR did not manage to fit his assistant coaches on defense. I was surprised Casteel did not follow him to Michigan.
RR tried but I think he went too quick to the spread without spread offensive players. Then the defense fell apart on him due to poor coaching IMO! Hoke and his OC were smart enough to incorporate enough of the spread to have a successful offense. Plus Greg was a great pickup and was a much better coach than anyone RR could get.
I was an RR supporter and wanted to give him 4 years to turn the football program around, but during the '09 and '10 season, seeing how the defense never jelled, finally convinced me that RR was not the complete HC for Michigan.
I'm glad we have coach Hoke! Given the tough schedule and a slight lack of depth in some areas, I will not get too upset if we lose 4 or 5 games this season. Though, I'm predicting we'll go 9-3 and win the B1G!
it took about 3 years on Nebraska fan boards for the wounds to heal and everybody moved on rehashing Bill Callahan. So you're only looking at about 2013 for this sort of discussion to end.
But did anyone ever really embrace Callahan?
and many bought into the "our offense is stale and old fashioned and we need to make major changes" meme. And as things unraveled on the field and cherished win records were snapped, Big Red fans bickered and split into factions.
Main reason I started visiting your board originally was watching in horrified fascination as the same situation repeated here. It was so similar on so many levels it was downright creepy and like living the whole thing again, but I couldn't avert my eyes.
Judging from last season, you guys won't have long to put it behind you.
To Frank Solich.