yes plz
Carr allegedly advised 2008 commit to flip to Iowa
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:14 PM | 
You should probably mention
You should probably mention
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:19 PM |
What is this 2008 you speak
What is this 2008 you speak
What is this 2008 you speak of? Who is Threet and Sheridan?
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:15 PM |
Bring out your dead
Bring out your dead
Bring out your dead horses!
Bring out your dead horses!
Semper Fidelis
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:15 PM |
Kudos to Carr for being
Kudos to Carr for being
Kudos to Carr for being honest and giving a recruit good advice.
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:15 PM |
The article didn't say Carr
The article didn't say Carr
The article didn't say Carr encouraged him to transfer, but rather gave him good advice. He might have made his mind up before he talked to Carr.
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:18 PM |
If Wienke had played ANY
If Wienke had played ANY
If Wienke had played ANY other position besides QB I'd be the first one to be critical of Carr over his seeming betryal of Michigan to serve his personal agenda. Ok wait....not the first, that would be Section 1 obviously but I'd be right up there in the thread.
But a pro-style QB? He'd never play or contribute and unles he flipped to D and tackled people he wasnt going to help Rich anyways.
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:19 PM |
Section 1 response in 5,
Section 1 response in 5,
Section 1 response in 5, 4....
August 22nd, 2012 at 3:55 PM |
Well I have a day job too...
Well I have a day job too...
Sorry to disappoint -- I don't see the big deal.
I was never much of a Carr-hater. And I don't see that there is sufficient detail in this fluff-profile about Wienke, to make any grand judgments about Carr.
It is always Carr's prerogative to address stories about him; tell his side of the story, and answer questions. Write a book. I'd welcome it. I'd have a few questions for him. And they wouldn't necessarily be any kind of a cross-examination.
But here's my question for the MGoBoard: Why did this post get a massive neg-bang? What did the OP do, or say, that was so terrible? He found, far afield from the usual Michigan news media, an article that mentioned Carr in some significant aspect. And he posted it. Don't you appreciate that? The way that a community can self-aggregate news? What exactly was wrong with the OP?
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:19 PM |
(No subject)
(No subject)
When the ADept sells special jerseys and gear, you'll see my picture next to the targeted customer crowd. A sheep.....but a Blue one.....
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:19 PM |
Carr's crime was looking out
Carr's crime was looking out
Carr's crime was looking out for the best interests of his players and recruits over the interests of the incoming administration, which is forgivable in my opinion, even respectable if not a bit mis-guided. If you praise Hoke for creating a "family atmosphere" and being a straight shooter with the player's interests in mind you can't turn right around and complain that Carr should have convinced player's to stay in a less than ideal situation for a couple more W's.
Besides, we got Denard and Iowa got a punter, so things worked out.
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:34 PM |
Would you be defending RR had
Would you be defending RR had
Would you be defending RR had he convinced all his recruits to go elsewhere?
@2GuysFromWI
August 22nd, 2012 at 2:23 PM |
I would if he had the kid's best interest
I would if he had the kid's best interest
in mind, such as a much better fit elsewhere with the new staff coming in.
Doing the right thing fits every situation.
"I promise you we would have walked to the University of Michigan." - Brady Hoke
August 22nd, 2012 at 2:33 PM |
That's quite the expansion of
That's quite the expansion of
That's quite the expansion of scope. Carr gave solicited advice to one recruit (that we know of) that he'd be a better fit somewhere else. He also allegedly stated he wouldn't stand in the way of anyone transferring, which while not sending a great message, isn't the same as convincing everyone to go elsewhere.
August 22nd, 2012 at 3:24 PM |
While I understand the point,
While I understand the point,
While I understand the point, can you imagine the outrage if Denard and Gardner both transferred and then told a reporter they talked to RichRod who said Oregon was still running their type of offense and they should probably transfer there because Hoke won't run an offense to utilize their talents? I'm guessing the sentiment wouldn't be "RichRod was just looking out for their best interest as a run-first quarterback....what a good guy."
August 22nd, 2012 at 5:19 PM |
I admit because Lloyd's guy
I admit because Lloyd's guy
I admit the fact that Lloyd's guy is now a bench riding punter type substance makes it easier to forgive than would be the case with a Heisman hopeful whom we've all come to know and love over three seasons. However, it has nothing to do with favoring Carr over RR. In the end, what's right is right, and coaches looking out for their players is generally a good thing.
August 22nd, 2012 at 11:28 PM |
Exactly
Exactly
speaking of Denard fitting into a west coast offense.
August 22nd, 2012 at 2:10 PM |
I agree completely. While I
I agree completely. While I
I agree completely. While I may disagree with LC on this (Rodriguez would have created a system to use most of these guys if they were good football players), I understand his intentions and if I remove myself from being a Michigan fan (one who's been irritated by Coach Carr since midway through his career) I can't fault him for looking out for a kid's best interest.
Not that I loved Rich Rod less, but that I loved Michigan more.
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:20 PM |
Favorite Line of the Post
Favorite Line of the Post
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:23 PM |
I don't care
I don't care
The season starts in 10 days!!!
Janeane Garofalo (Film Actors Guild): "As actors it is our responsibility to read the newspaper, and then say what we read on television like it's our opinion"
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:23 PM |
I only hit the button once
I only hit the button once
I swear
Janeane Garofalo (Film Actors Guild): "As actors it is our responsibility to read the newspaper, and then say what we read on television like it's our opinion"
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:25 PM |
Does this mean the season
Does this mean the season
Does this mean the season really starts in 20 days?
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:24 PM |
35 posts in and no Section 1?
35 posts in and no Section 1?
35 posts in and no Section 1?
"Are you coming to bed?"
"I can't."
"Why not?"
"Someone is WRONG on the internet."
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:26 PM |
How about you go for the
How about you go for the
Why people continue to post this junk is beyond me.
OH-HOW-I-HATE OHIO STATE
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:27 PM |
I wonder
I wonder
if everyone praising Carr's advice would have the same conclusion if it came out that RR lobbied Denard, Molk, Gallon, Smith, Dileo and others ill-suited for the new offense to transfer to another team in the league that runs a spread?
I realize we are talking about starters vs. a backup but the logic still holds - you could make a strong case that these players' talents would be put to better use at another school. My opinion is that Carr should not have been involved in the decisionmaking process and should have referred all questions to the new coach.
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:34 PM |
Transferring and committing
Transferring and committing
Transferring and committing are two different things.
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:40 PM |
How many transfers did Carr
How many transfers did Carr
How many transfers did Carr approve?
@2GuysFromWI
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:43 PM |
Zero.
Zero.
Zero.
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:51 PM |
John U Bacon (the guy with
John U Bacon (the guy with
John U Bacon (the guy with actual access) would disagree with you on that point.
or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:53 PM |
Carr didn't sign anyone's
Carr didn't sign anyone's
Carr didn't sign anyone's transfer papers.
August 22nd, 2012 at 3:02 PM |
Your are transitioning from a believeable poster...
Your are transitioning from a believeable poster...
...to a blow hard. I believe I will recommend my friends stay away from a blog run by somebody who can't be honest and reasonable.
Good day to you.
August 22nd, 2012 at 3:12 PM |
Do you have anything to show
Do you have anything to show
that what he's saying isn't actually true?
"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk
August 22nd, 2012 at 3:27 PM |
Yeah....
Yeah....
Magnus has said throughout this thread that Carr should have been honest with Wienke and told him to go to Iowa. Magnus then argues the only other thing Carr could have done was to lie to the kid or send him into RR's sales pitch.
That is wrong and he is lying to himself if he doesn't see that Carr screwed up by not deflecting the question. Carr had another path and he failed to take it.
Carr screwed up and Magnus is not man enough to admit it.
As for the transfers, the word of Bacon goes much further than an anonymous poster on a website. Magnus may be playing games with "signing" transfers vs. "recommending" them vs. "approving" them or whatever. He has already shown himself to be a Carr apologist to a fault, so who would you believe?
And, the crappy thing about this whole thread is I really like Carr A LOT. I am a Carr fan. I guess that's why I get offended when other Carr supporters make us look bad by taking overzealous/indefensible positions.
August 22nd, 2012 at 4:05 PM |
You have a different definition of "dishonest" than most.
You have a different definition of "dishonest" than most.
Just because "you" see other choices, doesn't mean everyone does.
But what he said was "Carr didn't sign anyone's transfer papers." And he didn't. That's just fact. Because no one transferred while Lloyd was still coach. Some did after Rich was coach, but Rich signed those, not Lloyd. Did he say he would? Bacon thinks so. But even he isn't sure how it was said. And frankly, Bacon has been shown to get a lot of "facts" wrong, and confuse them with "opinions"...most of which he got from Rich, so he wasn't exactly doing an unbiased report either. And then you have guys like Craig Ross saying "Bacon is wrong, that didn't happen."
Who do you believe? Frankly, I'm not sure I believe any of them. You've picked people you want to believe. And that's fine. But it doesn't make it fact.
What is "Fact" is what Magnus stated- that Carr didn't sign anyone's papers, and if all anyone wanted was for a player to talk to Rich, Rich and the players who did leave each had that chance, because Rich signed off on them leaving. As for recruits, this story doesn't make it clear at all if Lloyd said in good faith "this probably isn't the place for you...Iowa might fit you better" or if the kid said "I don't think I'm going to Michigan...what would you recommend?" And he said "Iowa would fit you well."
You see brushing off questions from someone who has trusted you as the smart idea. Others see it as dishonest in and of itself. Doesn't make either wrong.
The only person who doesn't seem to be able to "man up" about right or wrong is the one who thinks what they believe is truth and what everyone else believes is dishonest.
"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk
August 22nd, 2012 at 4:18 PM |
No one...
No one...
...considers not answering a question to be dishonest.
"You see brushing off questions from someone who has trusted you as the smart idea. Others see it as dishonest in and of itself. Doesn't make either wrong."
If you are talking about "true to one's inner feelings" or something other than honesty, you may be getting to whether Carr had a moral obligation to this HS kid or something. You would be hard-pressed to argue he did.
There is no reasonable way to argue that deflecting that question was "dishonest." It is not a matter of opinion.
August 22nd, 2012 at 9:32 PM |
Sure it is.
Sure it is.
If you spend months creating a relationship, telling a kid to listen about what I have to say to do with your future, trust me to look out for you, and let me be your dad away from home, then you get a call and are asked "what do you think I should do?" and give a "no comment" that's intellectually dishonest. "Listen to me then, but I don't know what you should do now?" Either you care about a kid and want to be straight with him, or you're a hypocrite. Saying it's an absolute is silly.
"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk
August 22nd, 2012 at 9:38 PM |
Agreed. Some people put
Agreed. Some people put
Agreed. Some people put relationships and honesty ahead of school colors or allegiances. I like that.
August 22nd, 2012 at 9:18 PM |
You're right. I can't be
You're right. I can't be
You're right. I can't be honest and reasonable because I said that Lloyd Carr didn't sign anyone's transfer papers, when the fact is that he didn't sign anyone's transfer papers.
If your friends are dumb enough to believe you, then I'm not really worried about them visiting my site. I'll just have to argue with them over there, anyway.
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:41 PM |
The logic still holds
The logic still holds
People would have been equally pissed if it came out that RR told current spreadlike commits or near commits to drop M and go elsewhere in the Big Ten...they would not be praising his straightforward helpful nature as many are doing with Carr here.
Also, didn't Carr allegedy offer to help current players transfer when RR was announced? Not too sure people would have been happy about RR doing the same.
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:45 PM |
Smart people wouldn't have
Smart people wouldn't have
Smart people wouldn't have been upset with Rodriguez. Only the same or equally dumb people who are upset about this Carr/Wienke thing.
And yes, he did "allegedly" help current players transfer; but this year's HTTV article by Craig Ross proves (or claims to prove) otherwise.
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:51 PM |
Yes, I'm sure
Yes, I'm sure
people would be very calm and supportive if RR managed to cause Michigan to lose Denard to a transfer to Illinois or something after RR's departure. This is beyond delusional.
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:54 PM |
Who said anything about
Who said anything about
Who said anything about transfers? Wienke was in the fall of his high school senior year, and he had yet to sign a NLI.
There's a difference between signing transfer papers and telling a high schooler to verbally commit to another school. I don't know why that's so hard to understand.
August 22nd, 2012 at 3:12 PM |
Denard transferring is a bad example
Denard transferring is a bad example
But what about if RR had told Dee Hart to sign with someone else . . . (I mean before his brief commitment)
Hart may not be Hoke's ideal running back, but most everyone here (not just the stupid people) would have put a hit on RR's life if he'd done that.
For the record, I don't have a problem with Lloyd giving a kid the most honest advice he could when asked, but I don't doubt for a second how pasionate people are about recruiting either.
If my above RR-HArt scenario had ever happened, it would look an awful lot like West Virginia around here.
Love & Hate are horns on the same goat.
August 22nd, 2012 at 3:15 PM |
Just curious...
Just curious...
....how do we know he DIDN'T do that? We did have some decommits from that class. Some were even players more suited for the spread. Rich just might have done that, if they asked him. And if so, particularly at this point...so what? Of course, there is the difference in logic in asking a guy with a storied career who's retiring at a place and a guy who just got fired for advice, so it probably didn't happen. But if it did...if he said "you're too small to be a MANBALL lineman...go to Oregon"....so what.
"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk
August 22nd, 2012 at 4:40 PM |
So what?
So what?
We don't know, but since there is absolutely 0 evidence that RR ever steered a comit to go to another school, nor even an off hand remark by a player or former recruit so I have no reason to think he ever did. The only related evidence of his actions during the RR-Hoke transition was to urge current players to give the new staff a chance. I don't care if people dislike RR because of his record, but baseless speculation is just that.
I just thought it was interesting how the two ex coaches are percieved by the fanbase (particularly this blog). There are a lot of people in this thread claiming that Carr is just being an upstanding guy by advising a top recruit to seek another program during the coaching transition and I don't think for a second that RR would be given the same consideration.
Just theoretical masturbation really.
Love & Hate are horns on the same goat.
August 22nd, 2012 at 9:23 PM |
Whether Carr or Rodriguez
Whether Carr or Rodriguez
Whether Carr or Rodriguez encouraged kids to think through their decisions thoroughly, only an unreasonable person would be upset. Good for Carr if he told Wienke he'd be better off elsewhere. Good for Rodriguez if he told Kevin Sousa he'd be better off elsewhere, too.
I think Hart is a different story. Running backs can be successful just about anywhere, whether they're large or small. If Rodriguez told him to go elsewhere with any certainty, that would be disingenuous.
August 23rd, 2012 at 11:04 AM |
See, I don't think he did.
See, I don't think he did.
I just think random speculation is random speculation. But the better question is why you keep coming here. You say you don't like it here. You've been banned at least twice. No one likes you here. (Which is saying a lot). I'm guessing even your family is not that fond of you if you're as negative around them as you are around here. What IS the mentality behind a troll?
"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk
August 24th, 2012 at 2:49 PM |
Why M-Wolverine? Why?
Why M-Wolverine? Why?
At least Magnus still loves me.
EDIT: yes I know M-Wolverine was replying to a deleted troll poster, but damnit Mods! now it looks like I'm the troll!
Love & Hate are horns on the same goat.
August 24th, 2012 at 2:59 PM |
Especially with someone negging you to "trolling"
Especially with someone negging you to "trolling"
so I plussed it back up.
Besides what you said was reasonable. Now it probably looks less like you're a troll, and that I'm just a mean dick.
But then, most probably already think that anyway, so no harm on my end.
"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk
August 24th, 2012 at 3:32 PM |
Well
Well
I don't want you to look like a dick for appearing to over-react when you didn't.
So all i can do is offer you this e-hug as thanks.
[e-hug]
.
[e-hug]
.
[still e-hugging]
.
[wait]
.
[w a i t]
.
ok bye.
Love & Hate are horns on the same goat.
August 22nd, 2012 at 5:23 PM |
Hart may not be Hoke's ideal
Hart may not be Hoke's ideal
Hart may not be Hoke's ideal running back, but most everyone here (not just the stupid people) would have put a hit on RR's life if he'd done that.
And you know this how?
It amazes me that there are people out there so eager to defend the internet honor of a fired coach that they're perfectly willing to trash our own fanbase in the process.
You should probably mention that Carr was right about Weinke having a better shot at starting at quarterback there. What good would his advice be if it was always "you should go to Michigan." Would he have started over Threet in 2008? Or even Sheridan? Maybe, but I can't think he would have made a very big difference that season to us. Meanwhile he would have been a total wrong fit unless his head coach was fired.
(Blogger alias: "Misopogon") This team is under construction. We thank you for your patience.