Home
we had subs it was crazy

Primary links

  • About
    • $upport (lol)
    • Ethics
    • FAQ
    • Privacy Policy
  • Contact
  • MGoStore
  • MGoBoard
    • MGoBoard FAQ
    • Ticket spreadsheet
    • Michigan bar locator
    • Moderator Action Sticky
  • Useful Stuff
    • Depth Chart By Class
    • Unofficial Two Deep
    • 2013 Offer Board
    • Crude Bug Tracking System
    • Third Down Stats
    • Diaries, Windows Live Writer, And You
    • Michigan Future Schedules
    • User-Curated HOF
    • 2013 Recruiting Board
    • Where To Eat In Ann Arbor
Home Forums MGoBoard

Navigation

  • Forums
  • Recent posts

User login

  • Create new account
  • Request new password

MGoElsewhere

  • @MGoBlog (Brian)
  • @aceanbender
  • @TomVH (Tom)
  • RSS Feed
  • iPhone App
  • Facebook profile
  • MGoKindle Store
  • mgo.licio.us
  • Brian @ TSB [Archive]
  • Brian @ AOL [Archive]
  • Sour Salty Bitter Sweet

Michigan Blogs

  • Big House Blog
  • Burgeoning Wolverine Star
  • Genuinely Sarcastic
  • Go Blue Michigan Wolverine
  • Holdin' The Rope
  • MGoFootball
  • MVictors
  • Maize 'n' Blue Nation
  • Maize 'n' Brew
  • Maize And Go Blue
  • Michigan Hockey Net
  • The Blog That Yost Built
  • The Hoover Street Rag
  • The M Block
  • The M Zone
  • The Wolverine Blog
  • Touch The Banner
  • UMGoBlog
  • UMHoops
  • UMTailgate
  • Wolverine Liberation Army

M On The Net

  • mgovideo
  • MGoBlue.com
  • Mike DeSimone
  • Recruiting Planet
  • The Wolverine
  • Go Blue Wolverine
  • Winged Helmet
  • UMGoBlue.com
  • MaizeRage.org
  • Puckhead
  • The M Den
  • True Blue Fan Forum

Big Ten Blogs

  • Illinois
    • A Lion Eye
    • Hail To The Orange
    • Illinois Baseball Report
    • Illinois Loyalty
  • Indiana
    • Inside The Hall
    • The Crimson Quarry
  • Iowa
    • Black Heart, Gold Pants
    • Fight For Iowa
  • Michigan State
    • The Only Colors
  • Minnesota
    • GopherHole.com
    • The Daily Gopher
    • I'm In Love With A Fringe Bowl Team
    • TNABACG
  • Nebraska
    • Big Red Network
    • Corn Nation
    • Husker Mike's Blasphemy
    • Husker Gameday
  • Northwestern
    • Sippin' On Purple
    • Lake The Posts
  • Notre Dame
    • The House Rock Built
    • One Foot Down
  • Ohio State
    • Eleven Warriors
    • Buckeye Commentary
    • Men of the Scarlet and Gray
    • Our Honor Defend
    • The Buckeye Nine
  • Penn State
    • Slow States
    • Black Shoe Diaries
    • Happy Valley Hardball
    • Penn State Clips
    • Linebacker U
    • Nittany White Out
  • Purdue
    • Boiled Sports
    • Hammer and Rails
  • Wisconsin
    • Bruce Ciskie

Links of Note

  • Baseball
    • Big Ten Hardball
    • College Baseball Today
    • The Baseball Zealot
    • The College Baseball Blog
  • Basketball
    • Ken Pomeroy
    • Basketball Prospectus
    • Midmajority
  • College Hockey
    • Chris Heisenberg
    • College Hockey Stats
    • Inside College Hockey
    • Michigan College Hockey
    • Hockey's Future
    • Sioux Sports
    • USCHO
    • Western College Hockey
    • CCHA
      • LSSU Hockey
      • Bronco Hockey Blog
  • Football
    • Smart Football
    • Every Day Should Be Saturday
    • Doctor Saturday
    • CFB Stats
    • Harold Stassen
    • NCAA D-I Stats Page
    • The Wizard Of Odds
  • General
    • Sports Central
  • Local Interest
    • The Ann Arbor Chronicle
    • Arborwiki
    • Arbor Update
    • Teeter Talk
    • Vacuum
  • Teams Of The D
    • Lions
      • Pride of Detroit
      • Fire Millen
    • Pistons
      • Detroit Bad Boys
      • Need4Sheed
    • Tigers
      • Roar Of The Tigers
      • The Detroit Tigers Weblog
      • The Daily Fungo
    • Red Wings
      • On The Wings
      • Behind The Jersey
      • Winging It In Motown
    • Michigan Sports Forum

Archive

  • May 2013 (55)
  • April 2013 (94)
  • March 2013 (104)
  • February 2013 (81)
  • January 2013 (93)
  • December 2012 (74)
  • November 2012 (142)
  • October 2012 (143)
  • September 2012 (107)
  • August 2012 (103)
  •  
  • 1 of 11
  • ››

Get Yer Tickets

Football Display Case

NFL Watches

Follow your favorite team with localtv-satellite.com: Click Here.

Site Search

Diaries

  • New
  • Popular
  • Hot
  • UMich NFL draft history, Part III
    blueheron - 5 days ago
  • More Milford Men Than Michigan Men: Comparing the 11-12 and 12-13 Hockey Teams
    MGoBlueline - 1 week ago
  • Future Non-Conference Opponent Recruiting Watch
    EGD - 1 week ago
  • Way Too Late B1G Men's Basketball Scheduling Idea
    BeileinBuddy - 1 week ago
  • The Blockhams in "HOCKEY HANGOVER"
    Six Zero - 2 weeks ago
  • ‹‹
  • 2 of 4
  • ››
more
  • Using Rivals' Star Ratings To Look At Big Ten Football Recruiting: 2002-2013
    LSAClassOf2000 - 962 views
  • UMich NFL draft history, Part III
    blueheron - 796 views
  • LIGHT IT UP, AGAIN. WALLPAPER
    jonvalk - 770 views
  • Raiding the B1G-er Big Ten: Recruiting Prospects in Maryland and Rutgers Territory
    The Mathlete - 657 views
  • A Cynical Take on Why Expansion May be Dead for the Forseeable Future
    maizeonblueaction - 656 views
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more
  • Big Ten Recruiting Rankings 4-30-13
    Ace - 81 comments
  • Using Rivals' Star Ratings To Look At Big Ten Football Recruiting: 2002-2013
    LSAClassOf2000 - 19 comments
  • A Cynical Take on Why Expansion May be Dead for the Forseeable Future
    maizeonblueaction - 18 comments
  • LIGHT IT UP, AGAIN. WALLPAPER
    jonvalk - 17 comments
  • Raiding the B1G-er Big Ten: Recruiting Prospects in Maryland and Rutgers Territory
    The Mathlete - 13 comments
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more

MGoBoard

  • New
  • Recent
  • Hot
  • Help Finding Great Video Clips
    4 replies
  • Friday night drinking thread
    25 replies
  • OT: The Tigers game is very interesting
    96 replies
  • Michigan wrestlers accused of Molotov cocktail possession suspended indefinitely
    57 replies
  • Who's Your Favorite Michigan QB?
    174 replies
  • Softball Super Regional v. Louisiana-Lafayette, game 1
    53 replies
  • Sam Webb write up on five-star center Elijah Thomas
    16 replies
  • There should be 110,000 Rubber Chickens at the ND Game
    40 replies
  • OT- Miguel Cabrera is good at baseball, visual proof
    35 replies
  • Michigan/Minnesota football - Oct 5 - 330 pm EST
    17 replies
  • Memorial Day Weekend (here for the) posbang thread
    110 replies
  • The Official SIAP Alan Branch Photoshop Thread
    35 replies
  • Which Pay Site Is Best?
    62 replies
  • OT: Star Trek + Dilithium = Esplode…. Esplode clarity
    26 replies
  • OT - ND paid Charlie more than Brian Kelly in 2012
    36 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 6
  • ››
  • Who should replace ND in a long-term series?
    146 replies
  • Memorial Day Weekend (here for the) posbang thread
    110 replies
  • OT- Miguel Cabrera is good at baseball, visual proof
    35 replies
  • Softball Super Regional v. Louisiana-Lafayette, game 1
    53 replies
  • Softball SuperRegionals Open Thread
    27 replies
  • How much do you really hate ohio?
    146 replies
  • OT: ESPN hires Paul Finebaum
    40 replies
  • Denard, other rookies discuss Star Trek
    58 replies
  • 5 star 2013 DT may not be enrolling at Notre Dame
    93 replies
  • OT - ND paid Charlie more than Brian Kelly in 2012
    36 replies
  • OT: Star Trek + Dilithium = Esplode…. Esplode clarity
    26 replies
  • Very OT: The Hangover 3 *Thread May Contain Spoilers*
    62 replies
  • Urbs and his obsession with butts
    53 replies
  • OT: Red Wings vs Hawks Game 4 Open Thread
    193 replies
  • OT - Official MGoBaby Thread (you got 'em, we want to see 'em)
    151 replies
  • ‹‹
  • 2 of 6
  • ››
  • ESPN 30 for 30 on the Bad Boys
    77 replies
  • Michigan Softball vs. Cal Open Thread
    75 replies
  • ESPN's Luginbill Predicts Top 5 Impact Freshmen, includes Derrick Green
    73 replies
  • 5-Star DT Andrew Brown Planning Visit
    70 replies
  • OT-Two new Wolverine Fans have joined us (UPDATED WITH PHOTOS FROM TONIGHT)
    68 replies
  • Plaxico Burress is designing a men’s "luxury hosiery line"
    64 replies
  • Which Pay Site Is Best?
    62 replies
  • Very OT: The Hangover 3 *Thread May Contain Spoilers*
    62 replies
  • Rivals 250 notes
    59 replies
  • Denard, other rookies discuss Star Trek
    58 replies
  • OT- Miguel (not that Miguel) kicks fan in head at Billboard Music Awards
    57 replies
  • Michigan wrestlers accused of Molotov cocktail possession suspended indefinitely
    57 replies
  • Tigers vs Rangers 5/19
    57 replies
  • OT: Game of Thrones
    57 replies
  • Are TV sets the only reason for RU and MD?
    56 replies
  • ‹‹
  • 2 of 6
  • ››

mgo.licio.us

  • Burke says Michigan can be 'just as good' next year with McGary, Robinson III leading

    yes plz

    0 comments
  • SEC coaches with tiny faces

    I don't think they changed Les at all actually

    1 comments
  • This college baseball team is the best at postgame interviews

    national champs baby

    1 comments
  • Rounding up the latest in NCAA absurdities.

    Patrick Hruby is doing God's work.

    0 comments
  • Cornell wrestler tops Michigan's Trey Burke for Sports Illustrated award | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

    first comment: "EVERY ATHLETE HAS ASPIRATIONS OF WINNING AND WE HAVE OUR FAVORITES BUT IT IS ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO OTHER STUDENTS ACHIEVE THEIR GOALS, TOO!"

    0 comments
  • Burke hearing he'll go two through six in NBA draft

    stupid Pistons and their refusal to tank properly

    0 comments
  • 2013 NHL Draft Prospect: Andrew Copp

    rundown of Michigan's riser

    0 comments
  • Michigan's key returnee: Glenn Robinson

    needs moar usage

    0 comments
  • Former Arkansas QB Brandon Mitchell transferring to NC State

    so much for that

    0 comments
  • The B1G List: Ranking the State Fossils of the Big Ten

    This list is completely arbitrary and not a genuine analysis of the relative merits of state fossils.

    0 comments
  • Trey Burke turns to inner circle to prepare for NBA draft

    will be michigan's highest pick in a while

    2 comments
  • B1G assistant coach salaries on the rise

    money has to go somewhere

    0 comments
  • Tim Hardaway Jr. is motivated by his critics and doubters, and supremely confident in his ability

    I am only motivated by people who have no opinion about me.

    0 comments
  • Big Ten football procrastinates on parity-based scheduling, and nothing ever changes

    the just released schedules were a flat-out statement that the B10 doesn't believe SOS will matter in playoff selection

    1 comments
  • Michigan's Glenn Robinson III, Mitch McGary ranked inside top 20 on ESPN's 2014 draft board

    but I thought that draft was supposed to be incredibly loaded?

    1 comments
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more

Carr allegedly advised 2008 commit to flip to Iowa

310 posts / 0 new
Login or register to post comments
Last post

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
August 22nd, 2012 at 3:44 PM | I don't hate Carr (Score:2 Flamebait)
StephenRKass
StephenRKass's picture
Joined: 07/15/2008
MGoPoints: 4207

I don't hate Carr. In fact, I was sad to see him retire, and there are a lot of things I loved about him. He didn't seem to care that much whether people praised him or not. He cared for his players. He won the MNC. He pwnd Ohio for many years. He quoted from literature, read history, and had his players read a word from the dictionary any time they came to his office. He put up with the media, but they didn't control him.

Having said that, I know virtually nothing about what happened between Carr & RR. While it is water past the dam, I don't think that means it shouldn't be out there. Wanting to know more about what Carr did or didn't do does not equal hating Carr. I don't want haiography, I want history. If Carr wasn't in control of his team, if his players didn't work out adequately off season, if there was rampant drug use under his watch, if he sabatoged RR, yes, I want to know about it.

"It does not matter how many times you get knocked down, but how many times you get up." Vince Lombardi

 

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 4:27 PM | I'm equivocal towards the (Score:4 Normal)
APBlue
APBlue's picture
Joined: 01/07/2011
MGoPoints: 1146

I'm equivocal towards the Carr era.  He did, and I believe still does, a lot of great things for the university.  He also had his fair share of shortcomings.  

I haven't seen it brought up from this perspective, though.  Which is, what if he was doing Rich Rod a favor?  

What if he was trying to not saddle RR with a 6'-5" pocket passer in his first incoming class.  Instead, persuade the kid to go to Iowa, then let RR use the scholarship on a spread option QB of his liking in his first class.  

He was probably trying to do right by both the new coach and the recruit.  I think he did it well.  

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 11:19 PM | by your logic, RR probably should have done Hoke a favor (Score:0 Offtopic)
kyeblue
Joined: 09/18/2009
MGoPoints: 105

by telling Denard that he should transfer so that Hoke can bring in a pro-style QB in his first class. 

  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2012 at 1:51 AM | Transferring comes with a (Score:3 Normal)
mejunglechop
mejunglechop's picture
Joined: 07/09/2008
MGoPoints: 6419

Transferring comes with a much greater cost to the athlete than switiching commitments.

Galileo was also chastised.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:09 PM | * (Score:-1 Trolling)
yossarians tree
yossarians tree's picture
Joined: 08/19/2010
MGoPoints: 893

Shenanigans allegedly occurred derp four years ago derp returning to the Present thank you.

"That's some catch, that Catch-22," he observed.

"It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka agreed.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:48 PM | This did not happen (Score:2)
LSA Aught One
Joined: 08/24/2011
MGoPoints: 856

We all know that Lloyd was in his garage well into January.  There is just no way he had time to make phone calls when there was work left to complete.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:12 PM | Hmmm (Score:5 Normal)
CRex
CRex's picture
Joined: 09/28/2009
MGoPoints: 8737

Assuming what Wienker says is true...

On the one hand there is "The Team" and doing things for the program.  On the other hand there is not screwing kids over and lying to them about their future in the system.  Was Carr supposed to tell the kid "Oh no, don't worry you'll do just fine."?  Had he done that, the kid would have likely ended up as the third head on the Threet/Sheridan monster.  An unhappy head that gets the hell beat of out it and transfers a year later.

A player Carr had been recruiting came to Carr because he trusted Carr and asked for his advice.  Carr gave his honest view and that was 'look elsewhere'.  I'd have been angrier to find out Carr was lying and abusing the trust the recruits were putting in him.  

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:14 PM | While I don't disagree... (Score:4 Normal)
justingoblue
justingoblue's picture
Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10886

I still think the better response would be, "talk to Rich Rod and see what you think". I know they had a relationship and all, but the ideal response, IMO, would be to direct questions to RR directly and see how good his answers were.

It's also possible he told Carr that he wouldn't be signing with Michigan under any circumstances, and asked where he thought he might fit in elsewhere.

Go Blue!

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:31 PM | It all depends on what the (Score:5 Normal)
CRex
CRex's picture
Joined: 09/28/2009
MGoPoints: 8737

It all depends on what the kid asked really.  He could have talked to RR and been asking Carr for a second opinion as a trusted figure.  

Personally, given Wienke managed to removed himself entirely from the QB depth chart and is a three way battle for punter, I  have to wonder if Carr was already regretting accepting Wienke's verbal based on Wienke's senior year.  So the moment Wienke had a concern, Carr's response was "Yes, yes, decommit, the spread is bad!".  Figuring it was better for Wienke to go to a lesser program and it freed up a spot for a RR guy.  

For all we know, Carr called RR and said "Hey we have this pro style QB who is getting cold feet.  Do you want me to nudge him out the door and free up a spot for you?".  RR of course would have been confident in his ability to recruit so he likely would have said yes.  

Basically its all about the lens you view Carr through.  Unless you had a whole series of wireless mics in Schembechler Hall everything is lacking in context.  No one knows what Carr and RR said about Wienke and the like, if there mutual agreements on how to encourage round pegs to go find round holes and the like.  

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 2:42 PM | I would only be concerned... (Score:1 Normal)
justingoblue
justingoblue's picture
Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10886

if RR had a problem with Carr's actions. If he did, we're talking about something vastly different than giving Wienke a best opinion on a second option or helping RR with scholarship numbers by steering a recruit he didn't really want elsewhere. The theories in your post (and mine above) don't really get into that situation, so I don't see an issue with any of those scenarios, since RR would have been anywhere from actively involved or passivley okay with Carr's advice. So, in short, fine by me as long as RR was okay with it all.

Go Blue!

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 3:04 PM | As stated, ... (Score:-1 Overrated)
Bosch
Bosch's picture
Joined: 04/03/2009
MGoPoints: 4281

... we don't know the whole story.  However, Carr advising players/recruits that they might be better off somewhere else doesn't sit well with me, regardless of any reason any of you can conjure up.

Carr called RR during the coaching search and suggested to him that he consider the Michigan opening.....

Exerpt from Three and Out:

On Friday, December 7, and again on Monday, December 10, Bill Martin, Mary Sue Coleman and Les Miles talked on a conference call. Both conversations were simple and pleasant. During the second call, Coleman said she could not hire Miles without meeting him first, and asked Miles to meet her and Martin in Miami, where Miles had already scheduled a recruiting trip. Miles replied that he could not do any face-to-face meeting until after the national title game. Miles let them know both times, however, that, "If you want me, then after the bowl game, I will be your coach. I just can't do anything before that. [But] I would never say no to Michigan."

But, incredibly, just a few hours after both calls, word had leaked to the media, then started popping up on the blogs, and quickly traveled down to Baton Rouge. Miles was, understandably, upset -- and effectively boxed in.

That night, in what will likely come as a surprise to most fans, West Virginia head coach Rich Rodriguez -- whose Mountaineers had blown their own chance at the national title game when a 4-7 Pittsburgh team upset them 13-9 -- received a call from Michigan head coach Lloyd Carr. Rodriguez recalled they talked for ten or fifteen minutes.

"It was a very positive call," Rodriguez remembered. "He was definitely encouraging me to think about it."

That next day, the first person to encourage Bill Martin to think about Rich Rodriguez was none other than Lloyd Carr. (Carr did not respond to requests for an interview.)

That night, Bill Martin -- tipped off by Lloyd Carr -- called Rodriguez at his home to inquire about his interest in the Michigan job. Both sides were noncommittal but intrigued. Almost exactly a year after Rodriguez had turned down Alabama, he found himself flirting with the Michigan job. Six days later, on Monday, December 17, 2007, Bill Martin introduced Rich Rodriguez as Michigan's next coach.

Why endorse RR taking over a group of guys who's skillset wasn't necessarily condusive to his success, and then advise players that they might want to head elsewhere after he takes the job?

I don't buy into the "He's thinking about what's best for the player" mentality.  Coaches may take this into account, but don't kid yourselves.  Head coaches make decisions based on what's best for their progam (and their job security), and that's getting star recruits You don't turn away a 4 star QB beacuse you already have a 4 star committed and 3 more previously highly rated guys on your depth chart.  You bring him in because depth is good for your team.  Is it good for the guys who don't end up seeing the field but could start elsewhere?  As a head coach, do you convince those guys to seek greener pastures (if you aren't worried about scholarship numbers)?

Carr's loyality should have been to Michigan and to the guy he reached out to consider taking over for him.  The Carr influenced decommits and transfers might not have fit RR's system but they were skilled athletes who would have provided much needed depth.

And there is absolutely no way that RR says that he doesn't want one of Michigan's then current commitments with two months left before NSD and before he's even announced as the head coach.  That notion is silly.

All right Lemmings. Bring the heat.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 3:17 PM | Don't care much about the point by point at this point (Score:4 Normal)
M-Wolverine
M-Wolverine's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 38880

(just wanted to use 3 points in subject)

But have you read HTTV? Not because that's "right"....just because it thinks that a lot of what Bacon says is "wrong."

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 3:26 PM | I have not heard a whisper.... (Score:1 Normal)
Bosch
Bosch's picture
Joined: 04/03/2009
MGoPoints: 4281

... that the exerpt that I quoted is inaccurate.  There are other parts of the book that are certainly subjective, but this part seemed pretty black and white. 

Does HTTV provide some particular evidence that suggests otherwise?

All right Lemmings. Bring the heat.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 3:34 PM | In a way. (Score:4 Normal)
justingoblue
justingoblue's picture
Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10886

I don't want to give out a lot of their premium content, but the story M-Wolverine is talking about is pretty adamant that this call didn't happen, and that Carr wasn't involved enough to make that call.

Go Blue!

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 4:42 PM | I have HTTV actually.... (Score:1 Normal)
Bosch
Bosch's picture
Joined: 04/03/2009
MGoPoints: 4281

Just haven't read completely through it.  Will look into it later.  Certainly curious as to the context on the rebuttal?  Did it come from Carr or Martin or is it denial based on perceived plausibility?  Bacon was masterful at persuading readers through inferrences and insinuations.  However, this particular part was a detailed timeline based on RR's account of events.  Unless the other parties involved say otherwise, I'm inclined to think that Bacon's account is closer to the truth.  A phone call from Carr to RR is too important of a detail to remember incorrectly or to have misquoted.

All right Lemmings. Bring the heat.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 5:12 PM | It's odd for sure. (Score:1 Normal)
justingoblue
justingoblue's picture
Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10886

And I'm not sure what all to believe either. Just answering the question posed, and it's definitely in the HTTV story.

Go Blue!

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 4:32 PM | You keep saying that... (Score:-1 Trolling)
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 14314

But have you read HTTV? Not because that's "right"....just because it thinks that a lot of what Bacon says is "wrong." 

And I don't think that's right, at all.  There were a few differences, one thing where the two authors were told differently.

But you keep holding out the HTTV article as some authoritative rebuttal to Bacon, and I asked the powers that be about having an open forum/debate on that and they declined, thinking that it was not what was intended by anyone, and is not something that anyone was comfortable with. 

Personally, I didn't see any big deal and no significant contradictions.  The only reason that I wanted a fight, was because you seemed to be picking one.  I wanted to give you the fight you were looking for.  I was always confident that Bacon et al could back up what he wrote.

 

 

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 5:26 PM | I got a kick out of this (Score:5 Normal)
turd ferguson
turd ferguson's picture
Joined: 12/09/2009
MGoPoints: 2925

I got a kick out of this language - "you keep holding out the HTTV article as some authoritative rebuttal" - considering how often you refer to Three and Out as if it's some kind of holy text literally penned by God.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 5:30 PM | Bacon 3:16 "...(A)nd all the (Score:5 Normal)
Butterfield
Butterfield's picture
Joined: 01/15/2011
MGoPoints: 1948

Bacon 3:16 "...(A)nd all the evil in the universe conspired to defeat a good man, a good coach, before he had a chance." 

The swag is back. 

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 5:54 PM | I already said... (Score:-1 Trolling)
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 14314

Whenever Carr, Brandon, or anybody else wants to do their own book, I'll be in line to buy it.  And I'll be there for the author Q-and-A's.

You boys can write your own books too.

I'll never forget how Deadspin ridiculed this blog for going after Michael Rosenberg; calling us "fanboys."  Who are the fanboys now?

 

 

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 9:53 PM | Even when you block quote (Score:5 Normal)
M-Wolverine
M-Wolverine's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 38880

You only see what you want to. Thus the quotation marks saying we don't really know who was right or who was wrong. I suspect a bit of both. If you don't see some flat out differences of opinions in the two works about what can and could have happened, I can't help you. You see what you want to see.

Bacon has had a lot of chance to let us know how he sourced conversations had by people who weren't talking to him, and people who were talking to him weren't a part of; or more importantly how he was embedded with the coaching staff but has no idea what was going on with the defensive staff. He's deftly dodged answering any of that stuff in a direct way. And it doesn't matter. You think this was uncovering Watergate, but it's just another sports book that will be in the bargin bin in another year. It made good press releasing it in the middle of the season, but no one who matters even cares about it anymore. I know you sleep with it under your pillow....good for you.

As for the why...I mainly ask it to tweak you because you thought that getting an advanced copy from a book signing made you some sort of insider with secret knowledge and you asked that to everyone before the book was even released knowing they couldn't have, and that somehow made you right. When most things have been shown to just be the opinions he was fed by Rich, and you've really based everything you believe off a certain point of view. Which is fine, as long as you're not fanatical about it.

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 10:20 PM | Oh you're just still mad about the way that I showed you up (Score:-1 Trolling)
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 14314

on matters like the Jeff Casteel background, thanks to what came out through the book.  I get it.

And when did I ever claim to be some sort of insider?  I didn't.

 

 

  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2012 at 11:06 AM | You keep bringing that up. (Score:5 Normal)
M-Wolverine
M-Wolverine's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 38880

It still doesn't make you right. And just like HTTV casts doubt on your bible, that you continue to ignore the fact that when he didn't want to leave WV for less money he didn't (Michigan) and that when he did want to leave WV for less money (Arizona) he did shows it wasn't as much about the money as you and Bacon's WV source claim as it was about not moving his family from a place he thought he was head coach in waiting and then moving when it became obvious he would NEVER be head coach. Not the money. But I know thinking otherwise would shatter the imaginary world you've created. So I'll await you spending all night looking for links in the investigative files you've created that no one will ever read but you. Have fun!

Edited: for Late night typing.

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 5:33 PM | Why are you taking this book (Score:5 Normal)
yoopergoblue
yoopergoblue's picture
Joined: 02/11/2010
MGoPoints: 1978

Why are you taking this book as absolute fact?

"They will meet a dastardly fate here for that! There isn't a Michigan Man who wouldn't like go out and scalp those Buckeyes right now."

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:11 PM | We now know there... (Score:5 Normal)
MGoShoe
MGoShoe's picture
Joined: 04/23/2009
MGoPoints: 19239

...are two people who care about this.

LSA '89 - MBB Natl Champions, Big 10/Rose Bowl Champions | @MGoShoe

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:11 PM | Wienke (Score:5 Normal)
EGD
EGD's picture
Joined: 09/16/2009
MGoPoints: 1891

This is coming straight from Wienke, so I think this is pretty reliable.  But honestly, I don't have a problem with this particular situation, as opposed to, say, Mallet .  Unlike Mallet, Wienke wasn't going to help the '08 situation any, and he wasn't ever going to play in the spread-option. 

"You will suffer humiliation when the team from my area defeats the team from your area." -- The Onion

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:15 PM | If anything this provides (Score:3 Normal)
stephenrjking
stephenrjking's picture
Joined: 03/15/2012
MGoPoints: 1298

If anything this provides some backstory that sheds better light on Carr. Yeah, signing blank-check transfer orders probably wasn't a cool thing to do, but this is a situation where it seems Carr could have been doing it out of genuine concern for the guys he recruited and cared about rather than a malicious intent to hamstring his successor. 

Things aren't always as black-and-white as they seem. I think Carr's behavior through the transition was bad, but perhaps his motives weren't awful. Wienke certainly wouldn't have had it any better here than in Iowa City.

Servant. Pastor. Husband. Michigan fan in Duluth. 

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:32 PM | Plus, he saved RichRod the (Score:3 Normal)
BlueAggie
BlueAggie's picture
Joined: 11/17/2008
MGoPoints: 618

Plus, he saved RichRod the inevitable PR disaster which would have ensued from failing to honor the scholarship offer.

M BSE '05, A&M PhD '11
  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 3:19 PM | As I stated above..... (Score:-1 Overrated)
Bosch
Bosch's picture
Joined: 04/03/2009
MGoPoints: 4281

.... taking into account what's best for the player is not the top priority for head coaches at top football programs.  Every coach for every relevant program would have the best 85 players in the country on scholarship if they could.  Not all of those players are going to contribute, but it's not likely that a coach would be telling them to head elsewhere because it's in their best interest.

I don't doubt that Carr had some genuine concerns about the players now that he wasn't head coach.  I certainly don't think he was intentionally trying to sabotage Michigan or RR.  His mentality and priorities had changed.... but that doesn't make what he did right.

All right Lemmings. Bring the heat.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 5:15 PM | why?   he got mallett in the (Score:1 Normal)
VelikovskysDog
Joined: 09/10/2009
MGoPoints: 346

why?   he got mallett in the first place by being honest... you want him to begin to lie?  it was not a good fit, and thats what his dad asked lloyd.  lloyd was being honest, as he should be.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:11 PM | I started to write a post (Score:5 Normal)
uniqenam
uniqenam's picture
Joined: 07/20/2009
MGoPoints: 2397

I started to write a post about how it probably was the right move, and then I realized I just really don't give a shit. 

ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOHOKE!

 

I miss King of Belch.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:11 PM | But if Carr honestly though (Score:5 Normal)
WolvinLA2
WolvinLA2's picture
Joined: 11/13/2009
MGoPoints: 17719

But if Carr honestly though that as the case, doesn't that make him a good person? Lloyd likely had a relationship with Weinke, and cared about his well-being. So isn't Lloyd putting the person first a good thing here?

I know it's not the best for the program and whatever, but we bitch when coaches put the best interests of the program ahead the recruits, so how can we complain when one of our coaches does the opposite?

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 2:19 PM | Exactly right WolvinLA2 (Score:3 Normal)
ND Sux
Joined: 10/01/2009
MGoPoints: 3131

In the long run, the best interest of the kid IS ALSO the best interest of the program. 

"I promise you we would have walked to the University of Michigan."  - Brady Hoke

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 3:34 PM | Is that right? (Score:-1 Overrated)
Bosch
Bosch's picture
Joined: 04/03/2009
MGoPoints: 4281

Should Hoke have told Devin Gardner to transfer last year?  He provided much needed depth behind Denard, but he probably arguably would be better off elsewhere.

All right Lemmings. Bring the heat.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 3:44 PM | Ask Ryan Tannehill if he (Score:5 Normal)
jtmc33
Joined: 04/15/2009
MGoPoints: 4921

Ask Ryan Tannehill if he would have been better off transferring from T A&M as he sat behind 2 upperclassmen and played some WR his first couple years just to get on the field.  He started one year... his 5th year.   #8 pick in the draft.

I see your point... but telling a kid like Tannehill, or Gardner, to stick it out and learn the system because it will pay off in the end is much preferred.

I also bet you big money that Elliott Mealer is pretty damn happy that he didn't transfer to start somewhere else the last couple years.  He's going to be a UM staring offensive lineman... 4 years after first putting on the winged helmet. 

Would they all have been better off somewhere else?  We'll never know... but we know they wouldn't be Wolverines.  So, to me, (and obviously to Gardner and Mealer) that is more important than starting somewhere else your sophomore and/or junior years.

Class of '97: 4 Years -- 4 Four-loss seasons

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 4:45 PM | Playing behind upper classmen... (Score:2)
Bosch
Bosch's picture
Joined: 04/03/2009
MGoPoints: 4281

.... is not the same as playing behind someone with the same eligibility or more.   Think Keith Nichol at Oklahoma.....

Regardless, I'm sure there are also examples of players finding success after deciding to stay with programs after a coaching change and a new offensive philosophy that didn't necessarily coincide with their perceived skillset.

All right Lemmings. Bring the heat.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 6:44 PM | P-h-i-l-a-n-t-h-r-o-p-i-s-t (Score:-1 Trolling)
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 14314

"Back where I come from there are men who do nothing all day but good deeds. They are called phila…er, phila…er, yes, er, Good Deed Doers. "

 

With that being said, Lloyd Carr is the greatest phalantropist in this University's history (If you disagree, name me another person.)  

You aren't even close.  Now I must say that I don't know how much money Lloyd has donated to the University and the Medical Center/Mott Childrens' Hospital.  But these donations dwarf Lloyd Carr's entire personal fortune whatever it may be:

  • Stephen M. Ross ($100 million to the Business School)
  • William Cook ($12 million to the Law School in 1930; $155 million in inflation-adjusted dollars)
  • C.S. Mott -- yeah, that C.S. Mott ($6.5 to the Children's Hospital in 1965; $44 million in inflation-adjusted dollars)

So there are three.  My guess is that Bill Martin has personally donated much greater amounts to the Unversity and to the Athletic Department, than Carr.  Carr can't be within the top 100 living donors to the University.

What he has been, is a tremendous fundraiser for Mott.  But Lloyd Carr is not exactly a philan- uh, phila-  uh, Good Deed Doer.

 

 

 

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 9:04 PM | Give it up. (Score:5 Normal)
OMG Shirtless
OMG Shirtless's picture
Joined: 08/16/2009
MGoPoints: 1486

Nobody forces you to come here.  

Section 1 gets negged because he holds the Guiness World Record for beating dead horses.

You get negged because everyone knows who you are and remembers you from the multiple times you've been banned.

I put up a tough front, but deep down I just want to be held.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 10:23 PM | MGoBlog a CULT? (Score:0 Trolling)
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 14314

Hell, judging by this thread, I thought it was "Fight Club."

 

 

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 4:40 PM | I honestly don't know but a (Score:1)
MileHighWolverine
Joined: 09/02/2008
MGoPoints: 1258

I honestly don't know but a couple of well worn sayings about the The Team, The Team, The Team and Those Who Stay Will Be Champions make me think he did the wrong thing here. 

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:11 PM | Maybe Carr felt obligated to (Score:5 Normal)
jtmc33
Joined: 04/15/2009
MGoPoints: 4921

Maybe Carr felt obligated to tell Weinke (who would have been a 3rd string depth-guy, at best, for his program) to look elsewhere because he knew the kid would never play (in hindsight, he should have suggested MIami Ohio or Akron).

Stories of Carr telling potential starters to leave have proven essentially untrue.  But if he was telling a kid who hadn't even put on a winged helmet that he'd be a better 3rd stringer somewhere else other than UM... I can't get upset over that.

Class of '97: 4 Years -- 4 Four-loss seasons

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:11 PM | The damage to the program (Score:5 Normal)
stephenrjking
stephenrjking's picture
Joined: 03/15/2012
MGoPoints: 1298

The damage to the program from this transfer is incalculable. Wienke could have filled that huge need we have at Quarterback.

I mean, c'mon, he hasn't thrown nearly as many picks in the last three years. It's not even close.

 

Servant. Pastor. Husband. Michigan fan in Duluth. 

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:16 PM | Exactly (Score:3 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
Erik_in_Dayton's picture
Joined: 12/03/2008
MGoPoints: 6784

I was just about to say the same thing.  When I think of Wienke running the spread, well, I can barely control myself. 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:13 PM | So what? (Score:5 Normal)
brose
brose's picture
Joined: 02/19/2009
MGoPoints: 955

Sounds like he gave a kid good, sound advice...

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:37 PM | Exactly. I think a lot of the (Score:5 Normal)
turd ferguson
turd ferguson's picture
Joined: 12/09/2009
MGoPoints: 2925

Exactly.

I think a lot of the Carr hate comes from either a misunderstanding or difference of opinion regarding Carr's priorities.  I always had the sense that the student-athletes' well being was more important to Carr that virtually everything else - including Michigan's football record.  He wasn't going to ruin a kid's career (or life) just because doing so made Michigan slightly more likely to win football games.  That's my impression, at least, and it's the view that I'd like to think I'd have as a head coach.

On the other hand, If you believe that Carr's obligation is to put Michigan before everything else, then he comes across as a traitor when he's looking out for people at the expense of the Michigan football program. 

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 3:16 PM | Just because someone thinks (Score:-1 Trolling)
BigBlue02
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 1853

Just because someone thinks they were doing the right thing doesn't mean it is the correct or proper thing to do. Carr can try to help all he wants, but influencing personnell decisions before the next guy is introduced as the coach is not a good practice. It isn't so much this decision that irks me, it's the thought of him doing this with others that has me questioning the decision. It isn't as though he just drifted off quietly into his retirement. He took a job in the athletic department. His advice to recruits should have stopped the minute he announced he would be retiring at the end of the season.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:13 PM | The "transfer papers" (Score:4 Insightful)
ijohnb
Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 2795

story could cut both ways. At that point in time I think Carr was still on board with RR and even had been the one to suggest him.  The "transfer papers" event could have been more motivational than degrading, more like "I don't want to hear anything about it, either you are in or you are out, and if you are out, don't let the door hit you on the way out."  The incident is ambiguous at the very least.

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 9:22 PM | Could be.  After the bowl (Score:2 Normal)
snarling wolverine
Joined: 12/14/2011
MGoPoints: 4703

Could be.  After the bowl game against Florida, in the locker room Carr told his players something like, "Now go and finish what you started, and graduate."   (It's probably somewhere on Youtube.)  It sounded to me like a challenge to stick it out through the transition.  I don't know why Bacon didn't mention this speech at all in the book.

 

 

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:13 PM | Why's everyone hating on (Score:5 Normal)
robbyt003
robbyt003's picture
Joined: 10/25/2010
MGoPoints: 2593

Why's everyone hating on Carr?  Even if he did advise them they'd have more success in a pro style, what's the big deal?  He was being honest....

“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing” - Bo Schembechler

  • Login or register to post comments
August 22nd, 2012 at 1:14 PM | If Carr really did this, I (Score:5 Normal)
artds
artds's picture
Joined: 09/04/2009
MGoPoints: 2790

If Carr really did this, I support him 100%. I would have been disappointed in him if he refused to grant a kid a transfer, or didn't shoot them straight about his opinion of how they would or wouldn't fit with the new schemes.

Every time an MGoBoard poster complains about a thread topic, God kills a baby panda.

  • Login or register to post comments
  • « first
  • ‹ previous
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • next ›
  • last »
Powered by Pressflow, an open source content management system
Theme provided by Roopletheme; sidebars adapted from Chris Murphy.