Carr allegedly advised 2008 commit to flip to Iowa

in light of the fact that Rich Rodriguez got a raw deal and Lloyd Carr is still viewed as this can't do no wrong all-around great guy by many people. Carr, along with others, undermined Rodriguez from the get-go. Yes Rodriguez played a role in his own undoing by his inability to forge a decent defense but let's be fair to him; he certainly did not get any support from Carr. Personally, this story does not surprise me. Carr always struck me as a stubborn, crabby old geezer who did things only his way and if you disagreed with him, called him out, you were a dead man walkin'.   

I disagree until we hear from Carr or someone who knows what he did.

when you need it??? Someone post it, please!!!

...he was "gung-ho" about hiring RichRod.  Gun-ho is the .22 caliber pistol a prostitute keeps in her boot.

I'm equivocal towards the Carr era.  He did, and I believe still does, a lot of great things for the university.  He also had his fair share of shortcomings.  

I haven't seen it brought up from this perspective, though.  Which is, what if he was doing Rich Rod a favor?  

What if he was trying to not saddle RR with a 6'-5" pocket passer in his first incoming class.  Instead, persuade the kid to go to Iowa, then let RR use the scholarship on a spread option QB of his liking in his first class.  

He was probably trying to do right by both the new coach and the recruit.  I think he did it well.  

if RR had a problem with Carr's actions. If he did, we're talking about something vastly different than giving Wienke a best opinion on a second option or helping RR with scholarship numbers by steering a recruit he didn't really want elsewhere. The theories in your post (and mine above) don't really get into that situation, so I don't see an issue with any of those scenarios, since RR would have been anywhere from actively involved or passivley okay with Carr's advice. So, in short, fine by me as long as RR was okay with it all.

... we don't know the whole story.  However, Carr advising players/recruits that they might be better off somewhere else doesn't sit well with me, regardless of any reason any of you can conjure up.

Carr called RR during the coaching search and suggested to him that he consider the Michigan opening.....

Exerpt from Three and Out:

On Friday, December 7, and again on Monday, December 10, Bill Martin, Mary Sue Coleman and Les Miles talked on a conference call. Both conversations were simple and pleasant. During the second call, Coleman said she could not hire Miles without meeting him first, and asked Miles to meet her and Martin in Miami, where Miles had already scheduled a recruiting trip. Miles replied that he could not do any face-to-face meeting until after the national title game. Miles let them know both times, however, that, "If you want me, then after the bowl game, I will be your coach. I just can't do anything before that. [But] I would never say no to Michigan."

But, incredibly, just a few hours after both calls, word had leaked to the media, then started popping up on the blogs, and quickly traveled down to Baton Rouge. Miles was, understandably, upset -- and effectively boxed in.

That night, in what will likely come as a surprise to most fans, West Virginia head coach Rich Rodriguez -- whose Mountaineers had blown their own chance at the national title game when a 4-7 Pittsburgh team upset them 13-9 -- received a call from Michigan head coach Lloyd Carr. Rodriguez recalled they talked for ten or fifteen minutes.

"It was a very positive call," Rodriguez remembered. "He was definitely encouraging me to think about it."

That next day, the first person to encourage Bill Martin to think about Rich Rodriguez was none other than Lloyd Carr. (Carr did not respond to requests for an interview.)

That night, Bill Martin -- tipped off by Lloyd Carr -- called Rodriguez at his home to inquire about his interest in the Michigan job. Both sides were noncommittal but intrigued. Almost exactly a year after Rodriguez had turned down Alabama, he found himself flirting with the Michigan job. Six days later, on Monday, December 17, 2007, Bill Martin introduced Rich Rodriguez as Michigan's next coach.

Why endorse RR taking over a group of guys who's skillset wasn't necessarily condusive to his success, and then advise players that they might want to head elsewhere after he takes the job?

I don't buy into the "He's thinking about what's best for the player" mentality.  Coaches may take this into account, but don't kid yourselves.  Head coaches make decisions based on what's best for their progam (and their job security), and that's getting star recruits You don't turn away a 4 star QB beacuse you already have a 4 star committed and 3 more previously highly rated guys on your depth chart.  You bring him in because depth is good for your team.  Is it good for the guys who don't end up seeing the field but could start elsewhere?  As a head coach, do you convince those guys to seek greener pastures (if you aren't worried about scholarship numbers)?

Carr's loyality should have been to Michigan and to the guy he reached out to consider taking over for him.  The Carr influenced decommits and transfers might not have fit RR's system but they were skilled athletes who would have provided much needed depth.

And there is absolutely no way that RR says that he doesn't want one of Michigan's then current commitments with two months left before NSD and before he's even announced as the head coach.  That notion is silly.

Ask Ryan Tannehill if he would have been better off transferring from T A&M as he sat behind 2 upperclassmen and played some WR his first couple years just to get on the field.  He started one year... his 5th year.   #8 pick in the draft.

I see your point... but telling a kid like Tannehill, or Gardner, to stick it out and learn the system because it will pay off in the end is much preferred.

I also bet you big money that Elliott Mealer is pretty damn happy that he didn't transfer to start somewhere else the last couple years.  He's going to be a UM staring offensive lineman... 4 years after first putting on the winged helmet. 

Would they all have been better off somewhere else?  We'll never know... but we know they wouldn't be Wolverines.  So, to me, (and obviously to Gardner and Mealer) that is more important than starting somewhere else your sophomore and/or junior years.

While I understand the point, can you imagine the outrage if Denard and Gardner both transferred and then told a reporter they talked to RichRod who said Oregon was still running their type of offense and they should probably transfer there because Hoke won't run an offense to utilize their talents? I'm guessing the sentiment wouldn't be "RichRod was just looking out for their best interest as a run-first quarterback....what a good guy."

Zero.

Smart people wouldn't have been upset with Rodriguez.  Only the same or equally dumb people who are upset about this Carr/Wienke thing.

And yes, he did "allegedly" help current players transfer; but this year's HTTV article by Craig Ross proves (or claims to prove) otherwise.

Actually, I said nothing about Mallett or Rodriguez.   I have no idea how he would have done.  

Though RR did not help himself with Mallett due to the public hardon he displayed for Pryor during the recruiting process.

Denard threw more touchdown passes, and rushed for more TDs, under Borges than he did under Rodriguez/Magee.  He also wasn't run into the ground physically, like he was by the end of the 2010 season.  Not to mention that the team won four more games than it did in 2010.  I doubt he regrets a thing.

Technically, you compared the fan's devotion to the coaches, not the coaches themselves.